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NPC Buy orders for Sleeper Loot = FAIL

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Manfred Rickenbocker The Elliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:39:00 - [1] What is it for the NPC buy orders? Is this CCP trying to artificially bring down the price of the materials? With the difficulty of Sleepers (Im not complaining) its definitely not worth it. A compatriot of mine and I went into wormhole space and we almost lost our Pilgrim and Harbinger trying to bring down a single cruiser. This would be fine, except that the loot was 2 pieces of Sleeper Data Library worth 200k (on buy orders). For having an open market, its not very open. Can we ditch the buy orders? I thought thats why you all killed sell orders for shuttles and buy orders for nexus chips. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:40:00 - [2] ccp dtich the buy orders or ..... cut the sleepers dps and also the sleepers tank in half then they might not be insta fail and a massive isk sink
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:41:00 - [3] Don't sell it to the NPC's. Make a sell order and see who'll buy. The EvE economy is only jump started by NPC's, not carried. Try to sell it at 5 or 10 mil, and if someone will buy it ... YOU just determined it's value. If someone doesn't buy it, give it time. If someone undercuts you, yadda yadda. Players determine the values, not NPC's. You don't have to sell to them. Before Wormholes
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:42:00 - [4] we dont get npc buy orders for other modules or t2 items so i think ccp needs to dump it and reduce the sleepers This is very much a swg jedi patch thats going fast
Hobgoblin ll	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:42:00 - [5] Dood learn the basics of economy. A buy order can never bring down a price, it makes a minimum price for this, nothing else. If ccp made a buy order for Megathrons at 200k isk, that wouldn't bring them down to 200k isk aswell, right ? Next time think before you post.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:43:00 - [6] Originally by: ollobrains2 we dont get npc buy orders for other modules or t2 items so i think ccp needs to dump it and reduce the sleepers This is very much a swg jedi patch thats going fast No to reducing the sleepers. Let the players determine the value. Before Wormholes
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:44:00 - [7] ccp will probably decide to nerf the rats if losses become to great ( if peeps cant beat them fairly with fair odds the content wont get used ) ccp dont like that Market nerf the npc orders and let the value determine by supply and demand supply side determined by the ability to acquire raw materials demand by skills and players willing to play with the tech
Manfred Rickenbocker The Elliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:49:00 - [8] Originally by: Hobgoblin ll Dood learn the basics of economy. A buy order can never bring down a price, it makes a minimum price for this, nothing else. If ccp made a buy order for Megathrons at 200k isk, that wouldn't bring them down to 200k isk aswell, right ? Next time think before you post. I am quite aware of the basics of economics. What they have done is determined a price floor, thats a price which an item cannot go below. But, as CCP stated, they want prices for mods to be around specific values, and how they can set those psychologically is via buy orders. Furthermore, while this isnt an issue for the moment, what this also provides is an ISK faucet for when market forces over produce. If there is an over production of items (probably from farming the easier plexs) there will always be a buyer, as opposed to forcing people to try harder things to make a profit. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:51:00 - [9] Originally by: ollobrains2 ccp will probably decide to nerf the rats if losses become to great ( if peeps cant beat them fairly with fair odds the content wont get used ) ccp dont like that Market nerf the npc orders and let the value determine by supply and demand supply side determined by the ability to acquire raw materials demand by skills and players willing to play with the tech Please explain WHY they would need to change the market orders? Players can still decide supply and demand. Players WILL still decide supply and demand, as soon as they realize that there IS a demand. The whole argument about a simple, rather useless NPC order confuses me. It sets a minimum value, nothing more. But when players start needing those items, don't doubt that buy orders will be placed which supercede that order. If a player doesn't know or is incapable of using the market properly, that's not a fault of CCP. That's the fault of an ignorant or stupid player. Before Wormholes
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:53:00 - [10] Originally by: ollobrains2 ccp will probably decide to nerf the rats if losses become to great ( if peeps cant beat them fairly with fair odds the content wont get used ) ccp dont like that Market nerf the npc orders and let the value determine by supply and demand supply side determined by the ability to acquire raw materials demand by skills and players willing to play with the tech ollobrains, read up. The BUY orders are MINIMUMS. The auto-sell system will automatically pick the HIGHEST buy order in range, not the low NPC one, unless that's all there is in range. If that's not high enough, PLACE A SELL ORDER AT THE PRICE YOU WANT. Ugh. If you are going to complain about the market system, AT LEAST have a clue about how it works! the market is TOTALLY controlled by players. The NPC buy orders are just there to give the market a little boost to get the ball rolling. By this point they are probably already moot. Stop complaining about that which you do not understand. ---- Fix the Wardec System!

Apollo Gabriel	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:54:00 - [11] Ok Op please think about market dynamics, if you were at a store and someone offered to buy your car for 2000 euro would you sell it? no you would laugh. Same thing here. As to sleepers, they are hard, GOOD. Get a crew or be prepared to pay 10 m isk for components. Seriously I was on the verge of quiting eve until my first wormhole last night, now I am hooked, it made the game for me. See you in there. AG
Valeronx Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.03.12 02:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Ruze Please explain WHY they would need to change the market orders? Players can still decide supply and demand. Players WILL still decide supply and demand, as soon as they realize that there IS a demand. The whole argument about a simple, rather useless NPC order confuses me. It sets a minimum value, nothing more. But when players start needing those items, don't doubt that buy orders will be placed which supercede that order. If a player doesn't know or is incapable of using the market properly, that's not a fault of CCP. That's the fault of an ignorant or stupid player. The OP is just upset because now he can't use his Market Alts to put up region wide buy orders for 200 ISK to catch the unwary or lazy sellers. .
Manfred Rickenbocker The Elliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 03:19:00 - [13] Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 12/03/2009 03:20:56 Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Ok Op please think about market dynamics, if you were at a store and someone offered to buy your car for 2000 euro would you sell it? no you would laugh. Same thing here. As to sleepers, they are hard, GOOD. Get a crew or be prepared to pay 10 m isk for components. Seriously I was on the verge of quiting eve until my first wormhole last night, now I am hooked, it made the game for me. See you in there. AG Im not keen on conversion rates, but if your car was only worth 1500 euro bluebook value (dunno if they have bluebook values in europe) and yet there was a dealer that would buy any number of them for 2000, yeah you'd sell it to the dealer, but it ruins the actual market value. (Edit) by setting a floor, you ruin the efficiency of said market. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.03.12 03:23:00 - [14] NPC buy orders establish a base price for something, they aren't the highest price something can be sold for - the player market dictates that. OP fails at basic economics.
MC Purge	Posted - 2009.03.12 03:37:00 - [15] Originally by: ollobrains2 we dont get npc buy orders for other modules or t2 items so i think ccp needs to dump it and reduce the sleepers This is very much a swg jedi patch thats going fast Everything you have said or will say about the new patch is now invalidated by you comparing it to swg.
AmeNoNuhoko	Posted - 2009.03.12 03:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Im not keen on conversion rates, but if your car was only worth 1500 euro bluebook value (dunno if they have bluebook values in europe) and yet there was a dealer that would buy any number of them for 2000, yeah you'd sell it to the dealer, but it ruins the actual market value. (Edit) by setting a floor, you ruin the efficiency of said market. Setting an NPC buy order will never LOWER prices. It can, however (as in your car example) RAISE them. The only way they affect the market is if their player market value is less than the NPC price. An NPC buy order establishes a floor; it serves only to raise prices, never to lower them. Conversely, and NPC sell order establishes a ceiling; it serves only to lower prices, never to raise them.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.03.12 03:47:00 - [17] It's possible they did it to get a baseline price for insurance though I'd be surprised if they are at all insurable like t2 ships aren't :). But yeah I wouldn't sell to the NPCs just set up some sell orders and see what folks are willing to pay.
Shirley Serious Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra	Posted - 2009.03.12 04:35:00 - [18] Question: Those things, the Sleeper Data Libraries, the prices for which you're complaining about. Are they actually used for anything? Cos I don't see them listed in the bill of materials for reverse engineering things, or in the bill of materials in the bpcs for building the ships and subsystems. They appear in the market under "trade goods". Which suggests to me that they're things to give income from shooting sleepers, instead of bounties. Maybe they'll appear as required items in LP stores at some point. But as far as I can see, complaining that there's NPC buy orders for items that aren't actually used for anything, seems a bit Yes. Yes, I am.
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:01:00 - [19] Huzzah for stupidity. Price minimum, not maximum. In the meantime.


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