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Ghost Hunter
Naqam
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:24:00 -
[1]
As characters become older in EVE and their standings start to really shape in certain directions, they will eventually encounter the horrendous problems of trying to reverse some of these standings.
This is in particular, referring to the Pirate Factions.
More so, this is also part of a solution to the Sansha Bloc problem.
First, I will describe my choice example of the problem:
The Sansha Bloc is collectively, Sansha's Nation, Blood Raiders and Guristas. Once you have obtained -5.05 or worse to all three of these Factions (!) at once, the game mechanics effectively permanently ban your character from running their missions. No amount of skills will set the modifier above -2.0, which is the cut off for missions.
We've discussed this in detail and we've found there is no way around this; Faction standings override (!) any Corporate standings. Faction standings do not share out between multiple characters. Corporate standings could be +10 and you'd still wouldn't be able to run missions.
This problem can eventually spread to the other Factions, in particular the Angel Bloc, but only if the character involved has the misfortune of becoming -5.05 or worse to all of the Angel Bloc as well.
Now, I will discuss my proposed idea about fixing this.
If the choice character's standings have reached the point that not even Diplomacy 5, or any of the Connections skills at level 5, can set the modifier above -2.0, why not bypass this directly?
At level 5 (!) and only level 5 of either Connections (For the Empires) or Criminal Connections (For the Pirates), I would propose enabling a setting that allows the character to ONLY run the level 1, worst quality (!) agent available in that Faction.
This would provide a means for the character that, should all other benefits of the Connection skills fail, that he is at least able to use a terrible level 1 agent. Through sheer dedication and grinding, the character can eventually hope to raise their standings high enough to start moving up the corporate ladder.
Before my closing statement, I chose to not use Diplomacy as an option because I believe that the training time involved in getting the Connections skills to 5 should also be apart of the grind to reacquire standings. You're already getting a bonus from it, so it pays off as well.
That being said, this is my proposed idea. I'm still debating the possibility of having the Level 1 Worst Quality access modifier being available at all levels, but I'm not certain if that's keeping in the spirit of the difficult standings recovery or not.
Thoughts and suggestions about it? Criticism?
______
The Seven Events of the Apocalypse
The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö; |
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Vikarion on 15/03/2009 01:29:21
I support this. Being unable to repair standings at all is not a feature, it's a way to hurt new players before they even have all the information on the standings system they need.
I went past the point of no return with my standings only a couple weeks out, and I have no way to fix them. This especially hurts on the role-playing front.
Implementing this or otherwise resetting standings would get me back out in 0.0 to work with the Sansha. Until then...what's the point?
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Salba
New Eden Shuttle Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:30:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Salba on 15/03/2009 01:32:21
Edited by: Salba on 15/03/2009 01:31:26
If possible, it would be interesting to have those terrible agents located in particularly terrible places, perhaps to reflect the unpopularity with the agent themself commensurate with the quality of the missions they represent. Far from their affiliate bloc's space, for instance, or near battlefields.
It sounds like a good concept to me, for sure. It would make the potential for someone to visit all of New Eden (a personal objective, really) more of a possibility. It would help people who have inadvertantly gone past the Unpopularity Event Horizon you descrie with empires as well, which is a real thorn in new players' sides; especially when they're paranoid as I was way back when, and to this day continue to be.
I think it's a good idea.
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Koronakesh
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:39:00 -
[4]
Supported. Being permanently locked out of ever improving your standing to usefulness is not a good design. "Sorry, did you say you want to run pirate missions now? Nope, no can do, you've gotten your faction standings too low." It's unsuitable for someone who has been playing for a long period of time and wishes to go try something new, only to find out they can't due to standings design.
Having the lowest quality of the lowest level agent as a 'fallback' of sorts for all factions appears reasonable, and if someone is willing to train any social skill to 5, then clearly they want it bad enough, in my opinion.
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Ciarente
Gallente
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.03.15 01:48:00 -
[5]
I agree. The 'sandbox' nature of EVE that lets players change their career paths, if they are willing to retrain, should also hold true for other game choices like faction alignment. If players are willing to put in the time, they should have an option like this to 'redeem' themselves.
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Salba
New Eden Shuttle Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.15 03:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Salba on 15/03/2009 03:41:15
Also, the fact that you can be permanently locked out of faction missions seems to go behind the idea that "everyone has their price," which is one of the things that EVE is all about, as I understand it.
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Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.03.15 06:26:00 -
[7]
In addition, as I pointed out above, it will give more people a reason to move out to 0.0 for the pirate missions. (Yum!)
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Sol Angla
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.15 09:22:00 -
[8]
This would make role playing by standings much, much more pleasant.
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Julianus Soter
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:23:00 -
[9]
No, because we don't need any more dirty pirates in RP.
:p seriously, this would be a good change. Standings are broken for pirates.
---
This post is not the official statement of my alliance or corporation.
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Silver Night
Caldari
Naqam
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.03.16 03:23:00 -
[10]
A frustrating problem all around, given - as Ciarente points out - eve's normal sandbox nature.
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The Clown Man.
GLS Mr. State
Caldari Patriot.
Sansha's Nation Supporter
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Jonny Damordred
Freecaptains' Union
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:23:00 -
[11]
Signed! Moar choices!
Cheers,
Jonny D.
-------------------------
CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
Sat'Tal
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:25:00 -
[12]
Being a new player, not even knowing that you can lock yourself out of characters, and inadvertently locking yourself out of them, seems like terrible game design.
/agree
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Allahs Warrior
Gallente
I.M.M
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:34:00 -
[13]
doesnt it make more sense to just run missions in fleet with someone?
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Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:38:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Allahs Warrior
doesnt it make more sense to just run missions in fleet with someone?
You cannot repair faction standings that way, since storyline missions don't share. This has been confirmed by CCP. Making storyline missions shared would also work, and promote cooperation as well.
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Kathryn Dougans
Amarr
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:40:00 -
[15]
For security status, there is the option to regain it through ratting.
For empire standings, there is the option to regain via Faction Warfare, as part of a player corp with sufficient collective standings.
For pirate standings, there is nothing. This is a problem.
When you consider how low you can get to a pirate faction, just from doing the tutorial missions, then there is a problem, in that you lock yourself out from things before you really get started.
Therefore, there has to be something. Make it single-use, make it grindy, make it expensive, whatever. Just so long as there's something.
Don't ask me about the cows. |
Ghost Hunter
Naqam
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Posted - 2009.03.16 04:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Allahs Warrior
doesnt it make more sense to just run missions in fleet with someone?
This allows you to gain corporate standings.
However, it is not possible to share "gainable Faction (!) standings".
Thusly, you can get +10 Corporate standings with anyone in the Faction, but your Faction standings override and prevent you from running missions.
If however you're referring to running missions with someone in Fleet to bypass the mechanic, I must ask;
Why should I have to do that?
Why can't I waste more of my time grinding my standings with my own character?
Why can't I do that?
The point I want to raise is more so to create the option of being able to do it, rather being completely unable to. Even if it's a horribly pathetic and grindy way of doing it.
______
The Seven Events of the Apocalypse
The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö; |
Matariki Rain
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:03:00 -
[17]
This seems a reasonable request.
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Vincent Pryce
Gallente
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.03.20 11:03:00 -
[18]
Signed.
Players should have somekind of loophole to raise standings. For example just a while Angel RP'ers (or players whishing to do missions for Angels in general) there was the Thukker tribe to raise standings but as it stands this method got thukked up by having them give angel kills and joining the republic. We need some way of getting out of the deep ditch we have dug ourselves, some by ratting, some by carebearing. So please CCP, give us something to work with here.
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Carcosa Hali
Naqam
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.03.27 02:52:00 -
[19]
This is a very good idea and quite overdue. It's rather disappointing heading out to 0.0 and then finding you can't do any missions due to actions you took when you were a noob and didn't know any better.
Irreconcilable disadvantages such as this run counter to the premise that you can do anything in this game, if only you're willing to do the work..
Make it hard, certainly.. make it something you can only do by cooperating with others.. but don't make it impossible.
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Sometimes you lose it all...
The Secret History of Sansha's Nation |
Camperific
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.29 00:16:00 -
[20]
Signed.
This problem really does need sorting,and if Ghost's idea ain't do-able then just make sharing storylines available.
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Nakatre Read
Caldari
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.29 00:21:00 -
[21]
Signed by popular demand.
-----
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Math'ra Hiede
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2009.04.19 09:00:00 -
[22]
I support this idea, it is a problem for people that work in empire for alot of the time and do alot of missions for the Empire's and completely destroy their pirate standings.
Meaning that the only people who can go work for the Pirate factions and supply alot of our Pirate stuff (which we all love to use) are newly formed alts with neutral standings.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
:facepalm:
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kwix
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.25 11:02:00 -
[23]
/signed
There needs to be some options rather than a complete shutout. Just make it painful (not that mission grinding isn't already painful).
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Kharakan
Amarr
The Synenose Accord
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Posted - 2009.07.13 22:09:00 -
[24]
Live! Liiiiive! Do want this.
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.07.14 01:16:00 -
[25]
I prefer the solution to the problem that I've previously proposed: that all standings should automaticallyd degrade towards zero, very slowly.
--
Salpad |
Ghost Hunter
Kinetic Vector
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Posted - 2009.07.14 04:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Salpad
I prefer the solution to the problem that I've previously proposed: that all standings should automaticallyd degrade towards zero, very slowly.
Possibly, but that opens a can of worms into an entire other subject.
The main goal I went for here is addressing a pure-mechanic problem that has zero alternative possibilities.
______
The Seven Events of the Apocalypse
The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö; |
Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.07.19 21:43:00 -
[27]
I still agree. Sandbox =/= cut-off opportunities.
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:24:00 -
[28]
In massive support of this!
I'm lucky enough to have not damaged my pirate faction standings much and got to mission run blood raiders and others.
But coming back from outlaw alone can damage at least one pirate factions standings beyond reprise.
In Freelancer, where standings were much more fluid, you couldn't so much 'fix' your standings, but you could buy them. We used to have this in Eve too in the early days iirc.
Lowsec is becoming interesting and it wouldn't hurt to have some agents of every empire peppered in remote areas that bring your faction standing back up to 0 quickly. This alone would be enough to get people back into trying different sides out.
You could even reintroduce the option of doing some misisons for these agents and then a task or payment to fix the standings properly - something special to each faction.
There should also be remote agents for non-pirate factions too. Meb could do with fixing her Amarr and Caldari faction standings a bit 
A few more subtle pirate faction standings bonuses wouldn't go amiss. We all know that pirate bs are phenomenal, but i'm talking RP bonuses, like not having gate rats shoot ya if you're high enough (belt/plex rats still will).
Come on CCP! ♥
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Pinworm4545
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Posted - 2009.07.20 01:36:00 -
[29]
How about add a cost to it, such as a 'betrayal' mission where you're given the opportunity to 'betray' a corp that rivals one you've been locked out of, causing your standing with them to drastically lower but your standing with the locked out corp to rise. Seems like it could make for good missions, roleplay, and balance it out.
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Shanz3m
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:40:00 -
[30]
I would like to see something where you are able to get back faction standing again, maybe it could slowly go back to 0.0 after a long time or the ability to access the lowest quality agent, so you could a least have the chance to recover from it. Obviously the agent would have to in another faction space otherwise you wouldn't be able to get access to them without getting attacked.
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