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Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
2
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Posted - 2011.09.14 13:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
My Response to all the high, holy and over-inflated Latin used on these forums.
Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis
In other words, using Latin doesn't make your argument right in spite of the sound.
For those who may disagree:
inducula meam manducetis
(please take this as intended, with a sense of humor and not a personal insult as is too often the case here) |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
23
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Only if you/the Stons stop using "ancient Earth literature." There isn't any Earth literature. (Also please stop using Bible quotes as Amarr Scripture. The two are truly nothing alike.) Ilsenae Alexandros,-áEskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon-á |
Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
3
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:Only if you/the Stons stop using "ancient Earth literature." There isn't any Earth literature. (Also please stop using Bible quotes as Amarr Scripture. The two are truly nothing alike.) Ms. Alexandros, have an ice-cream, I'm buying. |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
24
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ice cream! Yay! I'll have green tea flavored, please. Ilsenae Alexandros,-áEskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon-á |
Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
12
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
A disclaimer is in order.
Edaine is not actually a disciple and sometimes he will say things not quite in the tone and order of Disciple etiquette. He gets this way when he's bored. Sometimes this is done just to get under my skin, but we have learned to take each other with a grain of salt. And Edaine, while we do disagree from time to time, I have no intention of eating your undergarment.
P.S. Ice-cream gives me gas |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
24
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ston Momaki wrote:Ice-cream gives me gas
You poor, poor soul.
Ilsenae Alexandros,-áEskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon-á |
Conventia Underking
PIE Inc.
11
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Posted - 2011.09.14 16:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
It would seem for the best to stick to languages we can all claim to understand. For God, Empire and Empress! |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
30
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Posted - 2011.09.14 19:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Like ice cream! Ilsenae Alexandros,-áEskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon-á |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
86
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Posted - 2011.09.14 19:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
I get the picture, Senae!
....I'll get the ice cream tonight, honestly. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon
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Jason Galente
mishima ryu
13
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Posted - 2011.09.14 20:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Another ice cream night? Of course, any discussion on ice cream wouldn't be complete without Valerie Valate.
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Ava Starfire
Teraa Matar
50
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Posted - 2011.09.14 21:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
-+Que dijiste? |
Verone
Veto Corp
29
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Posted - 2011.09.14 21:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Over inflated what?
Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM |
Alica Wildfire
Federal Investigations Agency
2
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Posted - 2011.09.15 06:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
I scream you scream we all scream for ice cream! I scream you scream we all scream for ice cream! I scream you scream we all scream for ice cream!
Auch andere M++tter haben sch+¦ne T+¦chter.
There is not just one language on this world. Open your mind. Many things said in a different language than thought fall flat through the translation. Some may work, many not. Especially sayings do not work. We live in a multicultural universe and to see a bit of it here and there is not a bad thing.
Many things I think and am able to think, many things I would like to express I can't. Especially most of the Sebiestor humor is lost through translation, so I don't. Because they don't work on galactic standard. To force the use of one language is the first step to impoverish the world of thoughts.
But if you use it, use it in a way that the stuff you write can be understood without it. Use it to enrich your language, not to build up barriers. That's my two cents (which is not much nowadays).
Romani ite domum.
There are parts of this world where it is something special to be able to speak a second language. In my part of the world it's special to speak more than three and you look like an idiot when you speak less than two. In other times it was normal for people to talk at least six languages fluently (if you had higher school education). Which makes us look bad today anyway. We're dumming down. And ignorant enough to ignore it.
Open your mind. Enrich thoughts. Use what you got. FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
120
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Posted - 2011.09.15 08:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Moved from "Intergalactic Summit" so that the discussion may continue without breaking the IGS forum rules.
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Zanziba'ar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
8
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Posted - 2011.09.15 09:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Moved from "Intergalactic Summit" so that the discussion may continue without breaking the IGS forum rules.
thank god for that now i can speak OOC.... You wouldnt know what Latin is! its almost forgotten on earth in todays date so why would it be known in a place were earth is but a myth and we have no knowledge if it? people in New Eden do not know latin.. end of - Mulzvich "Zanziba'ar" Gorath |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
36
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Posted - 2011.09.16 13:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
NO BIBLE QUOTES Ilsenae Alexandros,-áEskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon-á |
Ilsenae Alexandros
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
36
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Posted - 2011.09.16 13:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I AM YELLING IN THE HOPES YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME Ilsenae Alexandros,-áEskeitan of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon-á |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2011.09.16 14:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zanziba'ar wrote:CCP Spitfire wrote:Moved from "Intergalactic Summit" so that the discussion may continue without breaking the IGS forum rules. thank god for that now i can speak OOC.... You wouldnt know what Latin is! its almost forgotten on earth in todays date so why would it be known in a place were earth is but a myth and we have no knowledge if it? people in New Eden do not know latin.. end of
Except that the Amarr are direct descendants of the Unified Catholic Church; a group that is very likely to have revived Latin to the extreme making it no wonder why it has a place in "modern" Amarr society.
Though, that exact quotes from the Bible should have survived all these millenia is both streching imagination a bit too far and way out of place for the EVE setting. As per game policies, no direct Real World politics or religious stuff is allowed in EVE. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
6
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Posted - 2011.09.18 01:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
A problem that many capsuleers have is the inability to keep track of the last lie.
mendacem memorem esse oportet |
Alica Wildfire
Federal Investigations Agency
8
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Posted - 2011.09.18 08:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fact is the world of New Eden has a babel of languages. I don't think it's too smart to invent every language just because you have fear relaying on ancient but existing ones. Like Latin, ancient Greek, Maya, Babylonian or whatever comes up. The trick with using languages is that we as authors try to achieve something with it.
We try to put an effect on our story. And for this it is regardless if we begin to invent a new language for this or just use an existing. I wouldn't like to see anything like Klingon or Tolkins Elven language in a EVE related story because it really doesn't fit from the background. But to see an Amarr using Latin - whatever.
It does the effect, doesn't it? And we neither talk all ENGLISH here, do we? We talk something like galactic standard and for better understanding for everyone we use English for it. But English is for sure not the galactic language in the world of New Eden. As Latin will not be for the scriptures of Amarr.
But it does the job. And you can always overdo in details. So I'd just relax and watch them using Latin. It has the correct background, while I would like better to see them use Hebrew for it. That would be authentic, when I think of scriptures. But of cause most of us would not understand a word of it anymore which is not the case with Latin.
The English language has for someone with a different language background as his native tongue some nasty limiting features. A lot of the things that are going through my mind and that I'd like to express I can't do in English without it coming up sounding strange. I'm a native German speaker. And while my English is okay, I think, it's absolutely no compare to my skills in German. And I sometimes miss painfully to use the small differences in language that would fit so well to Alica and that aren't there in English - at least not for my skills in this language. I sometimes have the feeling to talk like a child in English - if I compare it to the way I would use the German language.
But this is a compromise I do. I prefer the IGS and these forums over the German ones any times. Even with the language barrier and the loss due to translation of thoughts I guess the English forum is -hm- more open I guess. FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS |
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Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
6
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Posted - 2011.09.18 13:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Oh yes, language. What labors we pour into it, but what comes of it? What is born of these labors? Especially on these forums parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus |
Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
6
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Posted - 2011.09.25 19:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have decided to propose a Latin guessing contest. The first pilot to guess the rough translation of the Latin insult, rebuff, etc., wins a cameo mention on IGS. The first one is from Perseus: dare pondus idonea fumo
Give the translation. |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
2
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Posted - 2011.09.26 18:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote:I have decided to propose a Latin guessing contest. The first pilot to guess the rough translation of the Latin insult, rebuff, etc., wins a cameo mention on IGS. The first one is from Perseus: dare pondus idonea fumo
Give the translation.
Something like, "To give smoke the proper weight"(?) Which I'd speculate is used when one needs to say, "That's just nitpicking and hair-splitting."
[P.S. When is a linguist among us going to develop a Gallentean, Matari, etc. lexicon? Trekkies have Klingon, where are our New Eden languages?] The events of war and battle are driven by-áthree interactive forces:-á Strategy & Reason;-á-á Rage & Emotion;-á-á Probability & Chance. -Clausewitz |
Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
6
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Posted - 2011.09.27 14:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Congratulations, Telegram Sam, you got it right. It is indeed a Latin rebuff that has many versions on these forums in many arguments. You win a cameo appearance of your name in the IGS forum.
Be watching for another one soon. |
Banroh
Fleet of the Damned Legion of The Damned.
4
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Posted - 2011.10.26 08:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fun to see likeminded people.
Latin when used on bios, corp names and all that is idiotic, person who uses this language has mostly googled his latin statements and mostly likely doesnt even understand this dead language.
Ps. I prefer esperanto |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2011.10.26 11:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:P.S. When is a linguist among us going to develop a Gallentean, Matari, etc. lexicon? Trekkies have Klingon, where are our New Eden languages?] There are works covering Amarrian, Caldari and even Intaki languages.
Might provide links later. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Lucius Vindictus
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
4
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Posted - 2011.10.26 13:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Doh! Disregard this post. |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
6
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Posted - 2011.10.26 14:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:Except that the Amarr are direct descendants of the Unified Catholic Church; a group that is very likely to have revived Latin to the extreme making it no wonder why it has a place in "modern" Amarr society. Though, that exact quotes from the Bible should have survived all these millenia is both streching imagination a bit too far and way out of place for the EVE setting. As per game policies, no direct Real World politics or religious stuff is allowed in EVE
Is this an official part of the lore? Not challenging the statement, just wondering. If Amarr religion is descended from the Catholic Church, that's a pretty rich background to work with for fiction ideas. And I promise not to use Latin...! : ) Unless it's Latin that has been transmogrified into something barely recognizable, from 140 centuries of contact with New Eden languages.
This recent thread has some links to stuff on New Eden languages, if anyone's interested. link |
Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
10
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Posted - 2011.10.26 15:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Its been a bit since I posted another Latin phrase, but I figured that we all need to lighten up a bit. So... next time you are in a heated argument with someone on whatever channel on whatever forum, try on this Latin zinger as a rebuff.
First person to give my the equivalent English idiom wins a cameo mention on The DSTON log.
Tu mihi manducare INDUCULA! |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
11
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Telegram Sam wrote:P.S. When is a linguist among us going to develop a Gallentean, Matari, etc. lexicon? Trekkies have Klingon, where are our New Eden languages?] There are works covering Amarrian, Caldari and even Intaki languages. Might provide links later.
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought Intaki were assimilated into Amarr culture. Wouldn't that mean that they would be speaking the same language as the Empire? |
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Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
11
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote: Tu mihi manducare INDUCULA!
That's one of Bart Simpson's lines! "Eat my shorts!" |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2011.10.26 16:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but I thought Intaki were assimilated into Amarr culture. Wouldn't that mean that they would be speaking the same language as the Empire?
Oh boy, as Gallente, you will have Intaki separatists breaking down your door for such statements. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Cynthia Gallente
Zodiac Research Society
11
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Posted - 2011.10.26 17:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
oh right duh... what am i thinking of? now that think of it... i might even be an intaki.... :P |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2011.10.26 18:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
For the Amarr there is the Amarrad language deviced by the ingenious Horatius Caul: link
For the Caldari there is the Napanii language that had been developing in RP circles for quite some time: link
And for the Intaki we saw recently a quite interesting work on their language: link Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
8
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Posted - 2011.10.27 10:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:Quote:Except that the Amarr are direct descendants of the Unified Catholic Church; a group that is very likely to have revived Latin to the extreme making it no wonder why it has a place in "modern" Amarr society. Though, that exact quotes from the Bible should have survived all these millenia is both streching imagination a bit too far and way out of place for the EVE setting. As per game policies, no direct Real World politics or religious stuff is allowed in EVE Hmm, it does say that the original settlers came from the Unified Catholic Church. Assuming that's a descendent of the 21st century Catholic Church, it does seem conceivable that the Amarr could still use some Latin. The settlers were organized and tech advanced enough for star travel, so seems they could easily enough have preserved data files of church Latin. It would just be a matter of storing a not especially huge amount of static data. And even after 140 centuries, the source data could be still theoretically be pure and unmodified. It wouldn't be like in old pre-digital Terra history, when information was corrupted as it was passed down by oral tradition or miscopied by monks. There's not much reason clean copies of the "sacred text" of old Latin language church documents couldn't still be around. This is assuming that only the Amarr professional clergy would use Latin, and that they'd only use it for ritual purposes. If it was used for actual back-and-forth communication of ideas, then over 140 centuries or so it would probably have evolved into something pretty different from Terran Latin. But if were just used for rituals, and backed up by digital records of the source language, then it seems like it could be pretty much like it is in 21st century Terra.
This assumption is flawed, it is based on the thesis that catholic refers to only the Roman Catholics, when in reality it includes the Orthodox churches and others.
The word Catholic is Latin but it has no direct modern word with equivalent semantics it's original meaning is a combination of universal, the whole and meaning or about. The meaning of Church also has a much wider meaning including something like the "worldwide body of worshippers" and not the modern usage of just a building for (Christian) worship.
So the Unified Catholic Church semantics equate to something like the Unified & Universal Meaningful body of worshippers.
However If you look at the Amarr, especially the different houses they are clearly representative of the various Abrahamic religions including Islam and Judaism along with Theosophy and Paganism.
Along with Greek It should also be recognised for it's wide use in science (and lesser extent technology) for it power to construct new compound words. Therefore remnants of wide scale usage in modern language and New Eden languages does not imply a Christian or Roman Catholic foundation. |
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
6
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Posted - 2011.10.27 11:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:For the Amarr there is the Amarrad language deviced by the ingenious Horatius Caul: link I'm really not that ingenious. I just cobble syllables together with superglue and hope that no-one tries to stack more than a few together...
Amarrad - Amarr language project |
Alica Wildfire
Federal Investigations Agency
29
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Posted - 2011.10.27 14:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
I admit that I'm no great friend of artificial languages, maybe because I have so much respect for the native ones. There are many good arguments against artificial languages, but the first and most important is that the creators of this underestimate the difficulties. Second important is that this language will only be understandable to the initiate which is not lowering the barrier for good roleplay but instead pushing it higher.
Languages have been good part of my education after finishing school. And if I might point out some problems with creating a language is for example that I have never seen one that even would catch up with the complexibility of BASIC ENGLISH. Which would be a strip down english that even every native speaking child would speak better.
But we are facing the problem to create poetry, to create cultural background and that and an artificial language would just hamper attempts in doing that instead of helping. Cultural background is more important than YAOAL (Yet An Other Artificial Language)-project. (Over the years I had to learn a lot of computer languages, more than I like to count to be honest. Must be over a hundred and I feel the urge to puke if I see one more - which most likely I have to every few months or so.)
So while I completely understand that it's a bit disturbing to use native languages for RP purposes and that some people want to use the alien-style of artificial languages I'd suggest to chose an other path to achieve that. My suggestion would be an automatic translator-system, a system of encoding. This is sounding a lot more complicated than it is and it is way better to implement than a complete new language.
First you can begin to start with a character substitute mechanism. Which means you can chose any font you like and simply convert words into this new font.
This can be quite effective. This kind of code can be found for example in the pigpen cipher or in for example in gold-bug cipher and many more ciphers that would exchange a letter with some other letter from the (unicode)-alphabet or just switch them like in the cesar cipher but keeping the vovels and consonants as they are.
This would be easy to reconstruct and also keeps the writing alienated enough.
The next step would be to substitute sounds, means letter-combinations with others and finally there are simple word-exchange mechanism like in a codebook. For this purpose I do not think about real codebooks which would need to find substitutes for thousands of words but to use an algorithm for this that simplifies it.
If you start to substitute bigrams or trigrams with new combinations you easily get complete new words that still sound like a language.
Then there is the method to kill some characters like for example t' kll t'e vvls. But this sort of cipher might by hard to read afterwards because if you encipher with leaving out certain characters you might face problems with mixing up words and things like that. Well, the Arabic language does not write down the vowels, so it would be a method to use.
If you want different grammar you can try to use certain simple changes like seen in Star Wars "Yoda" language for example, where simply the order of words in the grammar have been changed. So simple algorithmic grammatical changes to a common language would do the job easily without inventing a new one.
But whatever you do if you start to encode the writing of your text you should know that you are narrowing the amount of people that are able to understand your language. And this, I think, is not a desirable effect. I can say I'm definitely not happy with the idea to create a new language for every ethnic group of New Eden.
It's annoying enough that so many people just speak English and haven't seen a second language in their life. I'd for example accept every kind of Nordic/Northern European language as a dialect for some of the Matari tribes. Maybe pimped up a bit with some different fonts but why not? There are more people that understand Icelandic than Klingon on this planetGǪ
The development of new languages have always been a sign of people to close a group up to foreigners. Only on very rare occasions it was used for opening up. A new language is a cipher, is a code. It keeps more people away than drawing them in.
That's why I'd speak against a new artificial language and prefer to keep those "in game" that are on earth. Galactic standard is for sure not English anyway. So why does every ethnic group need a new, artificial one now? Where is the gain of this?
If you like to do this, I suggest, use algorithms. This is easy to undo and made readable again. FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
7
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Posted - 2011.11.01 15:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alica's excellent post deserves a reply, but for now....
Sorry, one more time on the subject of Latin in New Eden: Consider the many references to old Terran items and language still found this side of the EVE gate. Minmatar place names reference back to 21st century Nordic languages. Ancient Japanese mythology is still remembered and referenced in ship names such as Tengu and Kitsune. And dhips are named after Terran animals such as wolves, jaguars, cheetahs, ravens and crows. Maybe the settlers found similar animals in New Eden and named them after Terran animals they were familiar with. In any event, it seems that old words and terms carried over intact from Terra to New Eden. If those language items are still intact, couldn't some form of Latin still be around also? |
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
9
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Posted - 2011.11.01 20:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'm unsettled by player attempts to define new fictional languages for Eve. On the old forum, we had made quite a lot of progress discovering evidence of proto-languages in New Eden lore. |
Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
12
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Posted - 2011.11.02 17:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cynthia Gallente wrote:Edaine Numenor wrote: Tu mihi manducare INDUCULA!
That's one of Bart Simpson's lines! "Eat my shorts!"
Congrats Cynthia, you have received a cameo mention on the IGS thread "Disciples of Ston"
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