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Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.15 18:51:00 - [1] Been thinking of picking up some minnie skills lately to get myself in a rupture/cane/vaga but when i put it all into evemon its a pretty rough cross train, i currently have gal cruiser V and med blaster spec IV and can fly all the BS's however the ishtar doesn't really appeal to me at all, so that gives me no hac, the brutix seems decent but active tanking is in kind of a slum and the mega while not a terrible BS doesn't really cut it with blasters atm imo. So would it be a decent idea to switch over to minnie? I mean that gives me the rupture/cane/vaga/munnin for snipping/broadsword/rapier but would also require i train missile and shield skills. I seen a few posts in this forum regarding crosstraining but most of them seemed to be blaster complaints and not about the ships themselves
Aniel Zaar Gallente Light of Orion	Posted - 2009.03.15 18:54:00 - [2] Whatever you do, the nerf pendulum goes in circles - the Gallente will shine again, the whine threads will shift in content, and you will find yourself wishing you haven't cross-trained. -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^ By the way, I am an Ishtar and T2 sentries fan. Fight to make the sentry damage rig work for all drones.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2009.03.15 18:54:00 - [3] Fly laser ships, they have the mid sized solo ships in the game. The best gang ships in med and large classes. And a max range sniper mini and gallente both lack..
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.15 19:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Aniel Zaar Whatever you do, the nerf pendulum goes in circles - the Gallente will shine again, the whine threads will shift in content, and you will find yourself wishing you haven't cross-trained. Its not to much that i am worried about nerfs etc, its that my only option for HAC is the ishtar which isn't really the ship type i am that interested in. But i love the thorax, my issue with brutix is it seems somewhat weak compared to the other BC's
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.15 19:06:00 - [5] Originally by: maralt Fly laser ships, they have the mid sized solo ships in the game. The best gang ships in med and large classes. And a max range sniper mini and gallente both lack.. What are the ships that fit these comparisons?
Aniel Zaar Gallente Light of Orion	Posted - 2009.03.15 19:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Smokeyblood Its not to much that i am worried about nerfs etc, its that my only option for HAC is the ishtar which isn't really the ship type i am that interested in. But i love the thorax, my issue with brutix is it seems somewhat weak compared to the other BC's If you don't like Ishtar, it really does cut your Gal good fit options by a lot. Imho when the whole tracking/damage/range issue shifts (and it will, eventually), blasters will be whined about, and cherished as before. -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^ By the way, I am an Ishtar and T2 sentries fan. Fight to make the sentry damage rig work for all drones.
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.15 19:11:00 - [7] Originally by: maralt Fly laser ships, they have the mid sized solo ships in the game. ...You mean the Omen / Maller / Zealot / Harbinger / Prophecy / Absolution? Yeap...those are well known solo ships...all of em... Surely you might get some success in those BC / CS but it's totally situational. Best "solo" capable amarr ships are not laser ships - unless you count a Pulse Pilgrim as one of those ...you could do similarly well in a Blaster Arazu (and the Scram range would pwn). But those are still Drone Boats, and our friend doesn't like Drone Boats, apparently... Minie are nice to cross train for, should you wish...there is no easy way in Cross-training, or at least not easier than you've already figured out...in fact if you already have decent Drone + Gunnery skills, you should be able to skill up for T2 medium Minmatar ships and turrets in roughly 2 months...not bad... And their T2 BCs / CSs are at least as good as the Amarr ones in solo/small gang capability Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.15 19:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Diomidis Originally by: maralt Fly laser ships, they have the mid sized solo ships in the game. ...You mean the Omen / Maller / Zealot / Harbinger / Prophecy / Absolution? Yeap...those are well known solo ships...all of em... Surely you might get some success in those BC / CS but it's totally situational. Best "solo" capable amarr ships are not laser ships - unless you count a Pulse Pilgrim as one of those ...you could do similarly well in a Blaster Arazu (and the Scram range would pwn). But those are still Drone Boats, and our friend doesn't like Drone Boats, apparently... Minie are nice to cross train for, should you wish...there is no easy way in Cross-training, or at least not easier than you've already figured out...in fact if you already have decent Drone + Gunnery skills, you should be able to skill up for T2 medium Minmatar ships and turrets in roughly 2 months...not bad... And their T2 BCs / CSs are at least as good as the Amarr ones in solo/small gang capability I don't mind drone boats, i just don't really like the ishtar for a few reasons.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.03.15 20:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Smokeyblood Originally by: Diomidis Originally by: maralt Fly laser ships, they have the mid sized solo ships in the game. ...You mean the Omen / Maller / Zealot / Harbinger / Prophecy / Absolution? Yeap...those are well known solo ships...all of em... Surely you might get some success in those BC / CS but it's totally situational. Best "solo" capable amarr ships are not laser ships - unless you count a Pulse Pilgrim as one of those ...you could do similarly well in a Blaster Arazu (and the Scram range would pwn). But those are still Drone Boats, and our friend doesn't like Drone Boats, apparently... Minie are nice to cross train for, should you wish...there is no easy way in Cross-training, or at least not easier than you've already figured out...in fact if you already have decent Drone + Gunnery skills, you should be able to skill up for T2 medium Minmatar ships and turrets in roughly 2 months...not bad... And their T2 BCs / CSs are at least as good as the Amarr ones in solo/small gang capability I don't mind drone boats, i just don't really like the ishtar for a few reasons. Not to derail ur thread but why don't u like the ishtar, also the deimos is a great blaster ship . My advice is just stick with what you like because the nerfbat swings at every race and it swings often.
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.15 20:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Diomidis ...You mean the Omen / Maller / Zealot / Harbinger / Prophecy / Absolution? Yeap...those are well known solo ships...all of em... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but the Maller, Zealot, and Harbinger are well known solo ships. You also forgot the Sacrilege (but it's not a laser ship....). The Abso really needs a 4th mid to succeed (IMO), but I've seen it perform well solo. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Arthello Pilots Of Honour Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.03.15 20:46:00 - [11] If I were you I'd train Amarr as their ships are armor tanked like the Gallente. If you branch into Minnie you also need to pick up shield skills to maximize their potential.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.03.15 21:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Diomidis ...You mean the Omen / Maller / Zealot / Harbinger / Prophecy / Absolution? Yeap...those are well known solo ships...all of em... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but the Maller, Zealot, and Harbinger are well known solo ships. -Liang Not the best though not by far. So the original assertion is wrong. Indeed zealot and maller are among the worst solo ships in the game for obvious reasons. That people use them solo doesn't mean much - some people "solo" in carriers... -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.15 21:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Myra2007 Not the best though not by far. So the original assertion is wrong. Indeed zealot and maller are among the worst solo ships in the game for obvious reasons. That people use them solo doesn't mean much - some people "solo" in carriers... Myra, I normally respect your opinion, but from what I've seen on TQ of the Zealot this is sounding more like a 'I don't believe it therefore it is a bad idea' argument. :-/ The Zealot is one of the better solo boats I've seen, but I don't fly Amarr anymore (-1 character), so I will refrain from further comment. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:14:00 - [14] Well before i make a decision, How do the diemos and brutix do in the field? I know we can theory eft all day long but when it comes down to it is flying these 2 ships an option in small gang stuff? Basically if i stayed gallente the ships i would fly would be ranis/ares/thorax/vexor/diemos/arazu/phobos/mega are these fine options?
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:15:00 - [15] Smokey, without any intention to derail this thread, why don't you like Ishtar? I supposed you do not like Drones but since this is not the problem what is it?
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:19:00 - [16] Edited by: maralt on 15/03/2009 22:25:40 Originally by: Smokeyblood Originally by: maralt Fly laser ships, they have the mid sized solo ships in the game. The best gang ships in med and large classes. And a max range sniper mini and gallente both lack.. What are the ships that fit these comparisons? Curse/pilgrim = the best solo ships in the game (and you can use them effectively without needing to train laser gunnery skills first). Zealot, harbi and Abaddon/geddon are the close to if not the best gang ships in the med and large classes. Apoc for the sniper of course. In fact its only in the frig class that they do not have the best or close to the best ships at lest as far as im aware but i do not like frig combat much tbh.
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Ig Neus Edited by: Ig Neus on 15/03/2009 22:16:42 Smokey, without any intention to derail this thread, why don't you like Ishtar? I supposed you do not like Drones but since this is not the problem what is it? Edit : Other than that, if you stick with Hybrids and you want some long range ships, crosstraining for Caldari ships will do it. Rokh is a great sniper. Well the ishtar just seems meh to me overall, almost like a mini domi but just a bit faster. Also seems to be one of the weaker hacs. Keep in mind i could be completely wrong as i haven't flown one, and the ones i flew with that gave me the impression may have just been bad pilots
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Smokeyblood Well before i make a decision, How do the diemos and brutix do in the field? I know we can theory eft all day long but when it comes down to it is flying these 2 ships an option in small gang stuff? Basically if i stayed gallente the ships i would fly would be ranis/ares/thorax/vexor/diemos/arazu/phobos/mega are these fine options? One by one : Taranis is the best DPS interceptor out there. In small gangs it offers a nice combination of tackling and damage. Ares is a decent tackler. Not as good as Stiletto but does its job. Thorax and Vexor (while different) are together with Rupture the strongest T1 (damage) Cruisers. In fact I find Vexor to be the best T1 Cruiser for Gangs. Brutix (not in list but you asked above) is a decent Battlecruiser. In fact it is the only Tier 1 Battlecruiser that sees so much use. Do not bother with the +armor rep bonus. 1600mm plate, dcu, 3 MFS + Electrons II is a simple way to fit it. Deimos tops damage in its class but this is not enough in most cases. Generally, there is no reason to bring a HAC if you intend to get into Blaster fights. Too expensive and not really better than a Brutix in most cases. Arazu is an amazing tackler (no one disagrees with that) and is also able to reduce enemy targeting range to 13.5% of its maximum (3 damps + rigs + max skills). People will say that Dampeners are useless, I disagree but this is not the point of this thread. Still it is more useful than Minmatar Recons in most cases. I also prefer it to Amarr Recons for gangs but this is personal taste (I find cap warfare a bit pointless when every ship has 1-2 cap injectors). I am not really experienced in Heavy Interdictors but I think that Phobos is a good one for small high/low sec gangs since it can fit a decent armor tank and has enough mid slots for MWD, web, Cap Booster and SeBo. Megathron is one of the top Battleships. Yes, Abaddon is currently better in most situations. But as other people have said, planning your character based on one ship generally leads to whines after the inevitable nerfs / buffs come.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.03.15 22:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Smokeyblood Well the ishtar just seems meh to me overall, almost like a mini domi but just a bit faster. Also seems to be one of the weaker hacs. Keep in mind i could be completely wrong as i haven't flown one, and the ones i flew with that gave me the impression may have just been bad pilots I find it to be one of the strongest HACs. Decent Tank and lots of damage through Drones. It is indeed a mini Dominix but the key word here is "mini". If you do not have a reason to bring smaller, more agile ships, bringing HACs instead of Battleships is not a good idea. You end up doing less damage, having worst tank and paying more if you lose your ship. Generally, in small gangs Ishtar is great. You should give it a try if you have the required Drone skills.
UMEE Tactical Initiative	Posted - 2009.03.15 23:37:00 - [20] stick with gall only for the drone boats. if ure not a droney kinda guy, other races are that away --->
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.15 23:45:00 - [21] Cross train to caldari at least you can use your hybrid skills :P
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Naomi Knight Cross train to caldari at least you can use your hybrid skills :P Caldari rail ships are pretty meh tbh as well. If the ships i listed aren't decent i might as well go matari for the jag/rupture/vaga/cane/broadsword/sleip And .............tempest
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Smokeyblood Originally by: Naomi Knight Cross train to caldari at least you can use your hybrid skills :P Caldari rail ships are pretty meh tbh as well. If the ships i listed aren't decent i might as well go matari for the jag/rupture/vaga/cane/broadsword/sleip And .............tempest Yep rail ships should be boosted, and yes those ships you listed are awesome, but there are already too many matar fashion boys, we dont need +1.
Smokeyblood	Posted - 2009.03.16 03:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Smokeyblood Originally by: Naomi Knight Cross train to caldari at least you can use your hybrid skills :P Caldari rail ships are pretty meh tbh as well. If the ships i listed aren't decent i might as well go matari for the jag/rupture/vaga/cane/broadsword/sleip And .............tempest Yep rail ships should be boosted, and yes those ships you listed are awesome, but there are already too many matar fashion boys, we dont need +1. Heh, well matar seems like a decent choice to me. I can basically still fly the gal blaster cruisers and a brutix but at least this way i can fly minnie 90% of the time when they are a better choice
UMEE Tactical Initiative	Posted - 2009.03.16 03:04:00 - [25] you can make hybrids work. you just gotta be a little smart about it. fly whatever you enjoy. change is inevitable it seems.
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:36:00 - [26] Edited by: Ig Neus on 16/03/2009 06:38:27 Indeed, fly whatever you like. Just remember that Gallente BS > Minmatar BS in most cases and that even Vagabond is not what it used to be. The only ship class where Minmattar have a real advantage are Battlecruisers. Then again Gallente have 2 useful BCs instead of one. I just proposed a Caldari crosstraining since from your post it seemed that you are interested in flying some sniper ships. Rokh > rest for sniping imo.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:11:00 - [27] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 16/03/2009 07:11:45 Gallente are the worst race right now, dump them and train something else. The blaster ships are completely outclassed by Amarr or Minmatar ships, so all you've got left are the drone boats, and only the Ishkur and Dominix are really worth flying, and the Dominix only for solo PvP. Yes, the nerf/boost cycle does come for everyone eventually, but there aren't even any proposed changes yet, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy your new race before they lose their FOTM status. -----------
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Gallente are the worst race right now... As if Blasters would be worse then Missiles Amarr > Gallente/Minmatar > Caldari
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:34:00 - [29] Quote: The blaster ships are completely outclassed by Amarr or Minmatar ships That must be why Claw > Taranis, Rupture > Thorax and Tempest > Megathron. Oh wait, none of the above is true. The only one of the above that people may suggest is that Rupture is better than Thorax but even in this case most will agree with me. So if by Blaster ships you mean only Deimos and Brutix, please clarify it. Also the real case in which Amarr ships outclass Gallente ships is the Abaddon vs Megathron, which is largely due to their Tier difference combined with the fact that Hyperion is not a good choice with current tanking techniques. Not to mention that currently Abaddon is better than any other BS for any not sniping gang so it is not really a Gallente issue.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:36:00 - [30] Originally by: fuxinos Originally by: Merin Ryskin Gallente are the worst race right now... As if Blasters would be worse then Missiles Amarr > Gallente/Minmatar > Caldari Yes, actually they would be. Learn how to use missiles properly, and then you'll understand. The correct ranking is: Caldari = Amarr >>>> Minmatar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gallente. -----------

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