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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Siddy on 16/08/2004 23:36:18
Yes Boys and girls - i am talkking abaut the useles Minmatar BS skill lvl 5. Or in general consept - projektile nerf!
CCP changet many things that direcktly efekt Turrets damage - the hit is no longer countted as automatical 100% and then adding penalties
it is screwed, now first penalties -> then actual hit prosentage, and then more penalties  
on contruary this change efekts little guns that got good trakking and hig RoF
But projektiles only strengt was nor trakking or hig rof - only the damage it can cause when it hitted
CCP's Dev teams dont need do much to correkt this error - a few Eavnings spent whit hot cup of coffe and the patch that whuld fix this whuld be redy (and even tested among Devs)
they culd make projektiles TRULY a long range kings - but right now any other turret clas can out damage 1400mms at any range 
SO how make CCP hear our scream?
I remeber Zombi incident in yulai - nexst day the empire was turned into carebare land  by 150km sentry increases - they did that fix so fast that they even didint inform PLAYERS abaut it - as result my frend almost lost his BS
so - if all peoples whit something against tempet nerfs whuld gather - lets say - in system near yulai (alts ... mains - everyone)
and whuld make a "demonstration" march to yulai - whitout any back thots ofcorse  ( if node cant take 400+ pilots jumping - its not our fault  )
anyway - thees kind of ideas are right now widely considered amongs angry Tempest and Typhoon users - good job CCP 
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Siddy on 16/08/2004 23:36:18
Yes Boys and girls - i am talkking abaut the useles Minmatar BS skill lvl 5. Or in general consept - projektile nerf!
CCP changet many things that direcktly efekt Turrets damage - the hit is no longer countted as automatical 100% and then adding penalties
it is screwed, now first penalties -> then actual hit prosentage, and then more penalties
on contruary this change efekts little guns that got good trakking and hig RoF
But projektiles only strengt was nor trakking or hig rof - only the damage it can cause when it hitted
CCP's Dev teams dont need do much to correkt this error - a few Eavnings spent whit hot cup of coffe and the patch that whuld fix this whuld be redy (and even tested among Devs)
they culd make projektiles TRULY a long range kings - but right now any other turret clas can out damage 1400mms at any range
SO how make CCP hear our scream?
I remeber Zombi incident in yulai - nexst day the empire was turned into carebare land by 150km sentry increases - they did that fix so fast that they even didint inform PLAYERS abaut it - as result my frend almost lost his BS
so - if all peoples whit something against tempet nerfs whuld gather - lets say - in system near yulai (alts ... mains - everyone)
and whuld make a "demonstration" march to yulai - whitout any back thots ofcorse ( if node cant take 400+ pilots jumping - its not our fault )
anyway - thees kind of ideas are right now widely considered amongs angry Tempest and Typhoon users - good job CCP
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:50:00 -
[3]
Can someone translate? 
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:50:00 -
[4]
Can someone translate?
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Ariadne
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:54:00 -
[5]
I havent touched a projectile gun in 3 months now, but from what i hear they are really bad now. But if you wait a month or so, its another bs who will get hit by some silly nerf. Good luck!
"This means V+R."
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Ariadne
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:54:00 -
[6]
I havent touched a projectile gun in 3 months now, but from what i hear they are really bad now. But if you wait a month or so, its another bs who will get hit by some silly nerf. Good luck!
"This means V+R."
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:59:00 -
[7]
sorry for spelling ..
im just blowwing steam off after i noticed that Large energy turrets on lvl 2 Beats projektiles lvl 5 and minamatar BS lvl 5 on minmatar ships
It realy tends to get you angry, espesialy if u want to be dedicated minmatar RP player.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.16 23:59:00 -
[8]
sorry for spelling ..
im just blowwing steam off after i noticed that Large energy turrets on lvl 2 Beats projektiles lvl 5 and minamatar BS lvl 5 on minmatar ships
It realy tends to get you angry, espesialy if u want to be dedicated minmatar RP player.
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Morkalum Takor
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:06:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: cashman
Can someone translate?
DITTO.
Yes, Boys and girls - I am talking about the useless Minmatar BS Skill level 5. Or in general concept - Projectile Nerf!!!
CCP changed many things that directly effect Turrets damage - the hit is no longer counted as automatical 100% and then adding penalties.
It is screwed, now first penalties -> then actual hit percentage, and then more penalties
On contrary, this change effects little guns that got good tracking and high ROF.
But projectiles only strength was not tracking or high ROF - only the damage it can cause when hitting.
CCP's Dev teams don't need to do much to correct this error - a few evenings spent with hot cup of coffee and the patch that would fix this would be ready (and even tested among Devs)
They could make projectiles TRULY long range kings - but right now any other turret class can out damage 1400mms at any range
SO how do we make CCP hear our scream?
I remember Zombie Inc. incident in Yulai. Next day the empire was turned into carebear land by 150km sentry gun range increases. They did that fix so fast that they didn't even inform PLAYERS about it. As a result, my friend almost lost his BS.
So, if everyone with something against Tempest nerfs would gather, lets say in system near Yulai (alts, mains, everyone) and we could make a "Demonstration" march to Yulai without any back thoughts, of course. (If node can't take 400+ pilots jumping, its not our fault)
Anyway, these kind of ideas are right now widely considered amongst angry Tempest and Typhoon users. Good job CCP
There, NOW I can understand it myself. 
"There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises |
Morkalum Takor
|
Posted - 2004.08.17 00:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: cashman
Can someone translate?
DITTO.
Yes, Boys and girls - I am talking about the useless Minmatar BS Skill level 5. Or in general concept - Projectile Nerf!!!
CCP changed many things that directly effect Turrets damage - the hit is no longer counted as automatical 100% and then adding penalties.
It is screwed, now first penalties -> then actual hit percentage, and then more penalties
On contrary, this change effects little guns that got good tracking and high ROF.
But projectiles only strength was not tracking or high ROF - only the damage it can cause when hitting.
CCP's Dev teams don't need to do much to correct this error - a few evenings spent with hot cup of coffee and the patch that would fix this would be ready (and even tested among Devs)
They could make projectiles TRULY long range kings - but right now any other turret class can out damage 1400mms at any range
SO how do we make CCP hear our scream?
I remember Zombie Inc. incident in Yulai. Next day the empire was turned into carebear land by 150km sentry gun range increases. They did that fix so fast that they didn't even inform PLAYERS about it. As a result, my friend almost lost his BS.
So, if everyone with something against Tempest nerfs would gather, lets say in system near Yulai (alts, mains, everyone) and we could make a "Demonstration" march to Yulai without any back thoughts, of course. (If node can't take 400+ pilots jumping, its not our fault)
Anyway, these kind of ideas are right now widely considered amongst angry Tempest and Typhoon users. Good job CCP
There, NOW I can understand it myself.
"There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:08:00 -
[11]
The best thing you can do is kill your enslaver's and comandeer their apocs.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:08:00 -
[12]
The best thing you can do is kill your enslaver's and comandeer their apocs.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:11:00 -
[13]
and why cant CCP fix theyr mistakes faster ?!?!?
why it alwasy come to this: traing another races BS is only solution? cause it takes to long to wait your ships unnferffing even to hardcorest RP player?
This is just another "jack of all trades" feever ... where everyone trains Apochs and ravens
Why CCP cant give every race specifik role?
There is alredy some
Amarr are uber tankkers and can also deal insane damage while NOT mowing
Galentte, if get close and personal, leave no one cold
and Caldari, whoos never miss whit theyr guidet stuff (unles using conter mesure)and are ultimate kings in EW
 so - minmatar are suposed to be "long range kings" whit they Hovizers - and having fast ships ot get hovizers in position .. but
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:11:00 -
[14]
and why cant CCP fix theyr mistakes faster ?!?!?
why it alwasy come to this: traing another races BS is only solution? cause it takes to long to wait your ships unnferffing even to hardcorest RP player?
This is just another "jack of all trades" feever ... where everyone trains Apochs and ravens
Why CCP cant give every race specifik role?
There is alredy some
Amarr are uber tankkers and can also deal insane damage while NOT mowing
Galentte, if get close and personal, leave no one cold
and Caldari, whoos never miss whit theyr guidet stuff (unles using conter mesure)and are ultimate kings in EW
so - minmatar are suposed to be "long range kings" whit they Hovizers - and having fast ships ot get hovizers in position .. but
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:40:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Selim on 17/08/2004 00:43:03
I'm just sick of the fact that you have to be a jack of all trades in this game. I really want to specialize... especially for minmatar, which I already have specialized in but its useless right now, at least for the battleships.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Selim on 17/08/2004 00:43:03
I'm just sick of the fact that you have to be a jack of all trades in this game. I really want to specialize... especially for minmatar, which I already have specialized in but its useless right now, at least for the battleships.
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Signatar
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:50:00 -
[17]
I don't think the Dev's consider their change in the projectiles to be a mistake. Its YOUR opinion that it is. I am flying minmatar ships with full use of projectile weapons, small, medium, and large turret types. Its not all about point and clicking to make them shoot optimally. If you knew how to use your ships then you wouldn't be having an issue.
Besides, I think you have Ammatar blood in you. I do not see you flying Minmatar ships out in space. In fact, you were in an Amarrian frigate - the Punisher - the last time I saw you. Retreating from the Curse Alliance raids that were going down in the Fountain Region. It was just you in a Punisher and me in a Rifter and yet you ran like an Amarrian Slaver Dog with its tail between its legs for several a star systems.
You dishonor your race, your bloodline, your tribes and your ancestors. May your people shun you for your cowardice. May the Light of Matar pass Judgement on you. May your Khumaak rust in your very hands. May your descendants pay for your unjustly actions. And may you find time to repent for your transgressions.
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Signatar
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:50:00 -
[18]
I don't think the Dev's consider their change in the projectiles to be a mistake. Its YOUR opinion that it is. I am flying minmatar ships with full use of projectile weapons, small, medium, and large turret types. Its not all about point and clicking to make them shoot optimally. If you knew how to use your ships then you wouldn't be having an issue.
Besides, I think you have Ammatar blood in you. I do not see you flying Minmatar ships out in space. In fact, you were in an Amarrian frigate - the Punisher - the last time I saw you. Retreating from the Curse Alliance raids that were going down in the Fountain Region. It was just you in a Punisher and me in a Rifter and yet you ran like an Amarrian Slaver Dog with its tail between its legs for several a star systems.
You dishonor your race, your bloodline, your tribes and your ancestors. May your people shun you for your cowardice. May the Light of Matar pass Judgement on you. May your Khumaak rust in your very hands. May your descendants pay for your unjustly actions. And may you find time to repent for your transgressions.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:52:00 -
[19]
Nice sig btw
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.08.17 00:52:00 -
[20]
Nice sig btw
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 08:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Signatar
I don't think the Dev's consider their change in the projectiles to be a mistake. Its YOUR opinion that it is. I am flying minmatar ships with full use of projectile weapons, small, medium, and large turret types. Its not all about point and clicking to make them shoot optimally. If you knew how to use your ships then you wouldn't be having an issue.
Besides, I think you have Ammatar blood in you. I do not see you flying Minmatar ships out in space. In fact, you were in an Amarrian frigate - the Punisher - the last time I saw you. Retreating from the Curse Alliance raids that were going down in the Fountain Region. It was just you in a Punisher and me in a Rifter and yet you ran like an Amarrian Slaver Dog with its tail between its legs for several a star systems.
You dishonor your race, your bloodline, your tribes and your ancestors. May your people shun you for your cowardice. May the Light of Matar pass Judgement on you. May your Khumaak rust in your very hands. May your descendants pay for your unjustly actions. And may you find time to repent for your transgressions.
aww shuddap - i bengan to train amarr ships so i culd fly em...
not much point flying minmatar one is there? unless ofcorse you want to get owned and owned and owned ...
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 08:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Signatar
I don't think the Dev's consider their change in the projectiles to be a mistake. Its YOUR opinion that it is. I am flying minmatar ships with full use of projectile weapons, small, medium, and large turret types. Its not all about point and clicking to make them shoot optimally. If you knew how to use your ships then you wouldn't be having an issue.
Besides, I think you have Ammatar blood in you. I do not see you flying Minmatar ships out in space. In fact, you were in an Amarrian frigate - the Punisher - the last time I saw you. Retreating from the Curse Alliance raids that were going down in the Fountain Region. It was just you in a Punisher and me in a Rifter and yet you ran like an Amarrian Slaver Dog with its tail between its legs for several a star systems.
You dishonor your race, your bloodline, your tribes and your ancestors. May your people shun you for your cowardice. May the Light of Matar pass Judgement on you. May your Khumaak rust in your very hands. May your descendants pay for your unjustly actions. And may you find time to repent for your transgressions.
aww shuddap - i bengan to train amarr ships so i culd fly em...
not much point flying minmatar one is there? unless ofcorse you want to get owned and owned and owned ...
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.17 08:35:00 -
[23]
hes righ u never give up! just make it work, hell just cause u have the bonus doesnt mean u have to use those guns! (they look cool though ><)
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.08.17 08:35:00 -
[24]
hes righ u never give up! just make it work, hell just cause u have the bonus doesnt mean u have to use those guns! (they look cool though ><)
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 08:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dao 2
hes righ u never give up! just make it work, hell just cause u have the bonus doesnt mean u have to use those guns! (they look cool though ><)
im using megapulses in my typhoon - does that say anything
*hint* *hint* @ CCP
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 08:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dao 2
hes righ u never give up! just make it work, hell just cause u have the bonus doesnt mean u have to use those guns! (they look cool though ><)
im using megapulses in my typhoon - does that say anything
*hint* *hint* @ CCP
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Junkzinat0r
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Posted - 2004.08.17 09:17:00 -
[27]
Matari flying Amarr ships? If it was a prize won from a filthy Amarr slaver it may be different, but to wilfully train and buy an Amarr ship?
I agree with Signatar I'm afraid, you bring shame upon your Matari bretheren.
They build. I fight. You pray. |
Junkzinat0r
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Posted - 2004.08.17 09:17:00 -
[28]
Matari flying Amarr ships? If it was a prize won from a filthy Amarr slaver it may be different, but to wilfully train and buy an Amarr ship?
I agree with Signatar I'm afraid, you bring shame upon your Matari bretheren.
They build. I fight. You pray. |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.08.17 09:25:00 -
[29]
Being a dedicated minmatar pilot (I can only fly minmatar ships and the only non proj weapon knowledge I have is a stain on my record from when I was young and foolish, s energy weapons lev 1) I agree with what some of siddy said.
There are however things we must account for.
CCP are constantly trying to balance the different ships and setups against each other, as soon as one power setup is found and gets popular it gets tweaked. I personally doubt we will ever see the end of the tweaking.
As for the minmatar position as range kings with the speed to use it...
Im not sure I agree with that, it is true that some of the large proj weapons (1200's and 1400's) have a damn good range but such guns make up a minority of the proj guns.
In my opinion the proj guns main strenght is its ammo, lasers ONLY do EM and thermal damage, hybrids ONLY do kinetic and thermal, the proj weapons can do any kind of damage from EM to explosive, from kinetic to thermal.
Sadly this range becomes very limited by firstly the fact that there are only 8 types of minmatar ammo (all turrets are limited to 8 types of settings) and to compile the problem the emphasis on diferentiate the ammo is placed on range rather than different usefull types of ammo.
If you look at the different laser crystals and hybrid ammo you will quickly spot the pattern, its not as easy with proj ammo.
I would like to see more versions of proj ammo to flesh out this strenght, more dedicated ammo types and more exotic combinations, it should be dificult to fit a ship to withstand the onslaught from a clever minmatar captain, if he notices you have high em protection on your shield then he should have a viable thermal option, as is the ammo types seem more to be hogeldi-pogelti thrown together at random to make up 8 ammo types.
I would say proj ammo is already divided up into two main groups, there are the standard ones that follow the laser/hybrid pattern and then there are the odd ones, there are 4 of each.
The standard ones are made upp of:
Carbonized, Nuclear, titanium and fusion.
Why do I say thise are standard you may ask, well they follow a very predictable pattern, they all only do explosive and kinetic damage and the damage/range ratio is easy to follow however as there are only 4 types we dont get the full range of the laser hybrid equivilent sets.
The second group is stranger tho, thise are made upp of:
Proton, dep uranium, plasma and EMP.
each of wich has a unique set of damage combinations but the base damages give a better view (thanx for that addition CCP) and this splits this group up into two sub groups,
Proton and dep uranium have fairly much oposed roles, one is stronger against shields the other against armour as the dep uranium has a higher effective damage it also has a shorter range (+0% as oposed to +20% for the proton)
Plasma and EMP seem however to be the same type of ammo only giving a chance to affect range as the EMP has better overall damage but has considerably shorter range.
Now, Im sure all of the above ammo types have their uses however I would love for all three types of ammo got fleshed out.
8 pure kinetic/explosive types ranging from extreme range-low damage ammo to extreme armour damage-short range ammo.
8 ammo types with mid range capabilities that ither favor shield breaking or armour breaking.
8 short range ammo types with high strength vs both shields and armour.
I would think this would be fairly easy to implement and it would give minmatars equipment a clear profile in the sceme of things.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.08.17 09:25:00 -
[30]
Being a dedicated minmatar pilot (I can only fly minmatar ships and the only non proj weapon knowledge I have is a stain on my record from when I was young and foolish, s energy weapons lev 1) I agree with what some of siddy said.
There are however things we must account for.
CCP are constantly trying to balance the different ships and setups against each other, as soon as one power setup is found and gets popular it gets tweaked. I personally doubt we will ever see the end of the tweaking.
As for the minmatar position as range kings with the speed to use it...
Im not sure I agree with that, it is true that some of the large proj weapons (1200's and 1400's) have a damn good range but such guns make up a minority of the proj guns.
In my opinion the proj guns main strenght is its ammo, lasers ONLY do EM and thermal damage, hybrids ONLY do kinetic and thermal, the proj weapons can do any kind of damage from EM to explosive, from kinetic to thermal.
Sadly this range becomes very limited by firstly the fact that there are only 8 types of minmatar ammo (all turrets are limited to 8 types of settings) and to compile the problem the emphasis on diferentiate the ammo is placed on range rather than different usefull types of ammo.
If you look at the different laser crystals and hybrid ammo you will quickly spot the pattern, its not as easy with proj ammo.
I would like to see more versions of proj ammo to flesh out this strenght, more dedicated ammo types and more exotic combinations, it should be dificult to fit a ship to withstand the onslaught from a clever minmatar captain, if he notices you have high em protection on your shield then he should have a viable thermal option, as is the ammo types seem more to be hogeldi-pogelti thrown together at random to make up 8 ammo types.
I would say proj ammo is already divided up into two main groups, there are the standard ones that follow the laser/hybrid pattern and then there are the odd ones, there are 4 of each.
The standard ones are made upp of:
Carbonized, Nuclear, titanium and fusion.
Why do I say thise are standard you may ask, well they follow a very predictable pattern, they all only do explosive and kinetic damage and the damage/range ratio is easy to follow however as there are only 4 types we dont get the full range of the laser hybrid equivilent sets.
The second group is stranger tho, thise are made upp of:
Proton, dep uranium, plasma and EMP.
each of wich has a unique set of damage combinations but the base damages give a better view (thanx for that addition CCP) and this splits this group up into two sub groups,
Proton and dep uranium have fairly much oposed roles, one is stronger against shields the other against armour as the dep uranium has a higher effective damage it also has a shorter range (+0% as oposed to +20% for the proton)
Plasma and EMP seem however to be the same type of ammo only giving a chance to affect range as the EMP has better overall damage but has considerably shorter range.
Now, Im sure all of the above ammo types have their uses however I would love for all three types of ammo got fleshed out.
8 pure kinetic/explosive types ranging from extreme range-low damage ammo to extreme armour damage-short range ammo.
8 ammo types with mid range capabilities that ither favor shield breaking or armour breaking.
8 short range ammo types with high strength vs both shields and armour.
I would think this would be fairly easy to implement and it would give minmatars equipment a clear profile in the sceme of things.
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