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How much harder are lvl 4's than lvl 3's?

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Astriell	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:17:00 - [1] How much harder are lvl 4 missions to solo than lvl 3 missions? Currently I am finding most of the lvl 3 missions really easy however there are a few I still occasionally need to warp out of such as the Mordus Headhunters. I am a little worried about trying a lvl 4 since they have warp scramblers and I don't want to lose my CNR because I got in over my head and couldn't warp out.
Natasha Torin	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:20:00 - [2] lvl 4s are guite a bit harder than lvl 3s.
Minerva IV Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.16 00:34:00 - [3] This may help it gives you an idea of what you will be up against. Assuming you have reasonable skills you should have np with most lvl4's in a cnr some like enemies abound later parts may be a little hard solo though. All depensds on your skills, both in game and agro management skills. and always make sure you kill the scramblers fisrt :)
Astriell	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:21:00 - [4] Edited by: Astriell on 16/03/2009 01:21:53 Well I am not really sure if my skills are good enough yet. I have kinda spread myself thin trying a bunch of different things. How does you average lvl 4 compare to say the Bonus Pocket in lvl 3 Angel Extravaganza? Similar difficulty or harder?
Vhiskey Caldari Imperial Forces	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:40:00 - [5] if you have to warp out of any lv3 you are not prepared for lv4s
Iota Belisarius State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.16 01:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Vhiskey if you have to warp out of any lv3 you are not prepared for lv4s Not to mention in a CNR...
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:01:00 - [7] MY CNR WAS FIT WITH THE FOLLOWING etc What were you wearing on that thing? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Astriell	Posted - 2009.03.16 02:10:00 - [8] High: Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Med: Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array Invulnerability Field I Invulnerability Field I Phased Weapon Navigation Array X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload Low: Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Ballistic Control System I Ballistic Control System I Rigs: Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warhead Rigor Catalyst I CCC
Irdia Freelancer	Posted - 2009.03.16 03:27:00 - [9] Players are in a habit of exagerating level 4's. If you can fly a battleship and are careful you should be able to handle level 4's. Best to read the guides for advice so you dont get full pocket agro etc. What tank do you need? Most level 4's 1x large armor repairer (T2, best named, faction like Amarr) is enough to armor tank. This is only around 300dps tanking which is not that major. If you can shield tank a similar amount then thats enough for most level 4's. What weapon skills are needed? You need somethig like 150+ dps to kill most npc battleships so if your doing more than this then your probably doing enough damage. Basically if shoot stuff then large weapons III on a battleship you can kill most npc battleships quite easily. If you have better skills or ship bonuses you can do it easier. Heat sinks, gyros etc - balance your tank with upgrades like heat sinks to increase your damage. Gal's tend to run drones and drone bonuses on the ships, be it heavies or sentry drones to kill battleships and small or med drones for small frigates etc. Some drone skills to kill frigates are needed to run levl 4's - even T1 drones is enough. There are a few exceptions that are more dangerous, hence reading the guides etc helps. Worlds Collide 4 last pocket can have more than one group attack, and if you shoot back while the agro is close to non-agro you will have the whole pocket agro. Angel Extra 4 bonus pocket is another where such light tanking or ganking can kill you. Blockade 4 with bloodraiders can kill in that they can put out plenty of damage and they suck cap - ie active tanking etc may run out of cap. Enemies Abound 5/5 is another. But basically the level 4's are quite easy even for the new player once they have trained into a battleship, and they take things slowly after reading the guides. Level 4's do risk more in ship cost to replace. If you stuff up then it will cost a lot more. But then the rewards are also much higher. Several level 4's give around 30 mil in bounties even before loot/salv so it doesn't take too long to gain the isk to pay for a ship. Shoot the smallest first and dont bother shooting smaller ships once they get too close. Add tracking to your overview so you can see how fast ships are moving across your gun sights - if too fast send your drones. You will learn how far you can hit which sized ships. It is the small frigates that can warp scram - destroy these so you can safely warp out if things get too tough. This is one of the first things taught in the starter missions of Eve - is amazing those who can't remember those starter missions by the time they reach level 4 missions.
v00d003	Posted - 2009.03.16 03:56:00 - [10] Edited by: v00d003 on 16/03/2009 03:57:40 I would not use that setup in a lvl 4 mission. You should be using more t2 equipment, especially on a expensive cnr. If you cannot fit damage mods in your lows then your not ready.... imho
Jayce Rivenstar	Posted - 2009.03.16 04:07:00 - [11] Also in any battleship using cruise missiles, torps or large guns, you need good drone skills to kill frigates. you need at bare minimum 4 drones; 5 t2 light or med is very nice. your drones is what will save you from webbing/scramming frigates.
Iferi	Posted - 2009.03.16 04:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Astriell High: Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Med: Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array Invulnerability Field I Invulnerability Field I Phased Weapon Navigation Array X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload Low: Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Ballistic Control System I Ballistic Control System I Rigs: Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warhead Rigor Catalyst I CCC Your setup has some notable weaknesses, some obviously simply due to poor skills but your entire tanking philosophy needs to be rethought. Its clear that youre attempting to run the shield booster near permanently as thats the only thing that you could possibly be using all those cap mods for. Thats a result of your relatively poor resists from the T1 omnitank. You would be much better served converting those to rat specific hardners along with the two slots that currently have Cap Rechargers in them. Either 2 primary rat damage type hardners, and 2 secondary rat damage type hardners, a Shield Boost Amp and the Shield booster should be your goal...OR Drop one secondary rat damage type hardner and keep the target painter. The goal with this is to bring your damage mitigation up to the point where you don't need to run the shield booster constantly. With the SBA you can pulse it and give your capacitor time to recover. Once you have that you can then change one of the lows to another BCU, put in a Damage control unit for even more tanky goodness and maybe keep the last PDU if your having fitting issues or change it over to something more useful. In terms of skills you need Drone skills ASAP to combat frigates that your cruise missles are going to struggle agains. Tech 2 hardners and Tech 2 BCU's ASAP If you still need more juice to run the Shield booster then consider changing over a rig slot or two to another CCC rig. You do not want to sacrifice your BCU slots for cap to run the booster your DPS will suck if you do.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.16 04:54:00 - [13] If you can't do 250dps at least, you'll have more fun pulling your own teeth out; 250dps is like stabbing your gums as it is. Tank is kinda hard to say, I have a single repper Domi setup that EFT is telling me tanks 650dps for Angels, who're probably the worst for armour, but I run out of cap after mebbe 8 mins ( EFT says it's cap stable but well, it isn't ). I've never even come close to running out of cap in a mission, incoming damage drops fast enough I can turn the repper off for a while. Well, not tried Mordus Headhunter l4 in it, or faction missions, but everything else is almost too easy. Shoot stuff at long range & you won't have anything to need to tank anyway. My friend when he flew a CNR had a fit that gave him about 4 mins of cap & he said he didn't ever have issues. If you want to see how hard they are, pick up a Drake, make it almost entirely tank & go do a test L4, it'll give you some idea of what's going on; given you won't kill anything in a hurry you get to see what damage is like at all distances.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2009.03.16 06:57:00 - [14] [Raven Navy Issue, PvE] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 You need something like that to do them easily. Obviously switching hardeners to match whatever faction you'll be fighting. (EVE Survival)
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.03.16 07:59:00 - [15] Difficulty difference between lev 3 and lev 4 is approx the same as it is between lev 2 and lev 3. Ie. You can encounter few missions that are as hard as lower level ones, but the 'hard' ones are quite considerably harder.
Fumbulz Minmatar SOTI Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.16 08:38:00 - [16] Has anyone else noticed that LVL 4 missions in high sec have become allot harder since the patch? Me and my corp mates have been doing LVL 4 missions for quite a while now with little or no problem but we lost two Ravens tonight. Standard active shield tank builds with all T2 gear. This was our first fleet opp since the patch. I got webbed and warp jammed immediately and went down so fast it felt like I was in a frigate. There were so many EW frigates and all the BS moved into range quickly. I have had no problems tanking quite allot of agro prior to the new patch.
Arkhan Bayne	Posted - 2009.03.16 08:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Natasha Torin lvl 4s are guite a bit harder than lvl 3s. there is a fair jump in difficulty, however, I run level 3's in a drake with no challenge, I can use the same setup in some of the "easier" level 4's as well, and even some ofthe more challenging ones with a couple of warp outs - though I think it'd be better to train up for a marauder for that kind of mission.
Farbs	Posted - 2009.03.16 08:57:00 - [18] If you need fitting mods you need to fit a smaller ship imo. And all these rainbow resist setups smells like fail. Invulns are for drones, mercs and pvp!
GyokZoli Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.16 08:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Fumbulz Has anyone else noticed that LVL 4 missions in high sec have become allot harder since the patch? Me and my corp mates have been doing LVL 4 missions for quite a while now with little or no problem but we lost two Ravens tonight. Standard active shield tank builds with all T2 gear. This was our first fleet opp since the patch. I got webbed and warp jammed immediately and went down so fast it felt like I was in a frigate. There were so many EW frigates and all the BS moved into range quickly. I have had no problems tanking quite allot of agro prior to the new patch. I did not notice. Which mission was it?
Dzil Caldari Apache Research Team	Posted - 2009.03.16 13:54:00 - [20] This is always a great question. I'm in about the same situation, I really haven't trained up BS/cruise as I'm gunning for command ships, so instead I've got BC 5 and am working on my med-sized weapons. One thing you'll find is that like 3s, there's a wide range of 4s, so being ready for all of them is not equal. Once you can handle all the 3s, especially the heavier ones like blockade/extravaganza/world's collide, then you'll probably be ready for the lighter 4s. I'd strongly recommend reading the guides and fitting your resists to match the damage of your adversaries, this may feel a bit like cheating but your tank will go a LOT farther.
Fumbulz Minmatar SOTI Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.17 07:13:00 - [21] Sorry I took so long to get back to you, it wasn't my mission. It was "Attack of the Drones".
Zothike Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.17 07:34:00 - [22] yes as said above if you have to warp out In some lvl3 u are not ready for lvl4 2 advices 1-go on the test server to have a taste of lvl4 to see without risk 2-do your first lvl4 in an insured normal raven not a CNR , and do an excel file with missions that are ok and thoses too hard (and be warned, on some, you will die)
GyokZoli Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.17 08:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Fumbulz Sorry I took so long to get back to you, it wasn't my mission. It was "Attack of the Drones". I did not notice it became harder at all.
Saundie Caldari Limitless Power	Posted - 2009.03.17 10:05:00 - [24] Agent quality also affects the difficulty of the mission slightly, although I am not sure of how much difference it makes. It may be worth taking into account when you do finally decide to move to level 4 missions, however. I found the move from level 3 to level 4 missions to be mostly painless, although you need to pay attention on missions such as Enemies Abound Part 5 of 5, Angel Extravaganza etc as it's easy to get overwhelmed. The Americans will always do the right thing... after they have exhausted all the alternatives - Sir Winston Churchill
comrade captain Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.17 10:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Fumbulz Has anyone else noticed that LVL 4 missions in high sec have become allot harder since the patch? Me and my corp mates have been doing LVL 4 missions for quite a while now with little or no problem but we lost two Ravens tonight. Standard active shield tank builds with all T2 gear. This was our first fleet opp since the patch. I got webbed and warp jammed immediately and went down so fast it felt like I was in a frigate. There were so many EW frigates and all the BS moved into range quickly. I have had no problems tanking quite allot of agro prior to the new patch. I know what happened here you shot all the trigger drones the 1st 5 that are there on site and then you ended up with about 8 of those dominix drone bses that deal a fair chunk of thermal damage. Trick is to kill one small drone then kill the npcs that appear after killing that and then take each small drone out along with its backup rather than killing them all at once and getting full aggro.
Reven Cordelle Caldari Lemuria Prospecting	Posted - 2009.03.17 11:02:00 - [26] Level 4s vary so much that its kinda hard to say. Missions like Rogue Drone Harassment are probably the easiest. 20 minutes tops, barely even need to turn on the SB. Then theres Enemies Abound 5/5 which can really beat you around. I have your typical Vanilla T2 Raven for Level 4s, and I have to say that I couldn't get through Enemies Abound 5/5 without a warp-out. Then again I stuck around for all the waves and didn't destroy the gate until everything was dead. Basically, have a go - if you get owned ... you'll know you aren't ready. Make sure your drones skills are up to scratch so you can get rid of scramming frigates in quick time. Drones are vital in L4s.
Robert Fitzroy	Posted - 2009.03.17 12:05:00 - [27] There are too many variables to articulate a succinct yet clear answer to a question of comparative difficulty. It is true that effectively running t4 missions requires more than marginal ability to operate a battleship in the same way the other tiers (save t1) tend to be overwhelming without skills enough to run a an appropriately-sized vessel with more than marginal ability. A perception that doing t4 missions solo is suicidal is reinforced by the fact that so many players suffer their first nine-figure economic setback fighting on <Race> Battleship I and Large <Gun Type> I. However, there is one huge difference between t4 missions and the lesser agent work -- scramblers. I don't think I'd ever even seen one on a rat until I had already done dozens of t3 missions. Even then, the scrambler frigate type was an easy kill and part of a wimpy group. In t4, elite scramblers will pose a serious threat. Smartbombs are often not an option because so many t4 gates spit you out directly on top of another gate (and nobody ever thought it was both pointless and stupid to let teeny tiny ships enjoy the full effect of webbing big huge ships that they could easily orbit tight even without the absurdity of a tiny bit of energy disrupting a gargantuan array of basic Newtonian thrusters.) As you might gather, I lost a battleship while operating on the theory that smartbombs would be a reliable defense against scramblers. I had the same experience with pulse lasers. Then I built up some serious Drone Fu, and that finally provided me with a way to reliably clear out scramblers -- at least until Apocrypha was released. My limited experience since suggests that short high-tracking guns do work now (in conjunction with a web,) but newly (and obscenely) enhanced elite frigate tanking abilities make drones alone an unreliable method. In any case, that is the rub with t4 missions. Good skills and a good plan should create no need to warp out of a t3 mission, but the nature of those missions also means that when the best laid plans come unraveled, escape is just one command away. Even with good skills and a good plan, t4 missions often leave a soloist scrambled for as long as it takes to ice an elite frigate or two in tight orbit. With high resistances, inappropriately amazing tanks, and excellent speed; taking out an elite frigate at 4km often proves much more difficult than popping an elite battleship at 40km. So, long story short, t4s are fine and fun -if- you go in with proper skills (ideally enough to be running mostly t2 modules plus level 3 or more in the relevant Battleship skill) and you have a reliably effective approach to getting scramblers off your back. The rewards are definitely worth it. Salvage and loot can be huge, while bounties and rewards are also nothing to sneeze at. It is probably for the best to team up for several before trying one alone, but once you get a feel for neutralizing scramblers, the rest is just a much bigger and much slower variation on the standard mission running theme. Regards, Robert Fitzroy
Killer Gandry Caldari Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2009.03.17 12:55:00 - [28] Edited by: Killer Gandry on 17/03/2009 12:55:03 Originally by: SupaKudoRio [Raven Navy Issue, PvE] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 kind of a low Dps fit if you ask me. loose 2 cap flux coils and slap in 2 more BCU's then loose the other 2 cap flux coils and slap 2 power diagnostic system II's in. Midslots I would take the ballistic deflection out and slap a spare cap recharger in. You have a little less cap recharge but then again by killing rats faster you tank effectivly by killing the incomming Dps.
Supreme Biovizier	Posted - 2009.03.17 18:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Wet Ferret MY CNR WAS FIT WITH THE FOLLOWING etc What were you wearing on that thing? You ask ppl "what are you wearing?" on eve-o?

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