Anyone who thinks data cores are actually passive income has rocks in their head. It's no more passive than running L4s in a Tengu (which is mind numbingly boring compared to mining).

We have a little more info, though still no real indication of whether it'll result in up or down price through some Soundwave posting yesterday:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101697&p=5

Short version, all datacores not just racial starship ones, small isk fee + slower rate on research agent gathered cores and dynamic pricing of cores from FW LP stores.

Also "We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec." - which either means move part of the process (ie. datacores) toward low/zero in much the same way that T3 production has a WH factor or means the sky is falling and you'll never be able to click manufacture on a T2 print unless you're waist deep in reds being bombarded by an enemy titan fleet - dependent upon your tin foil stockpiles.

Datacores are 1000LP + 1m isk for 5

Depends how the dynamic pricing works out on live I guess but I'm guessing CCP have a target LP-isk conversion rate in mind to balance around and I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that's 1000isk per LP. Which would mean 400k datacores. Which would make my post #4 above yet another of my string of dodgy predictions :o)

(Oh and Celi Annor - I see you've been buying up some of my relisted cores which would suggest you're doing just what you said you were doing on the forum - I thought the accepted forum protocol was to post "omg sell!" before buying :o)

So is it better to cash in RP now (whether you want to stockpile or sell), or is there some possibility that the system will be changed in such a way that it would be more useful to hold onto them?

As some context, I have all three characters on all my accounts trained to farm data cores. The effort involved in collecting the data cores alone ensures that this is not a "passive" income stream. Without the work of wandering around collecting the cores, I wouldn't have them, and thus wouldn't have any income derived from cores.

For each character, I have 5 or 6 agents to talk to. The typical autopilot route to talk to these agents is about 40 jumps long, taking me from one end of New Eden to the other. Thus I'm manually piloting for about 50 minutes. On top of this is the actual interaction with the agent which is relatively minor (start conversation -> buy data cores -> click OK, you're done). But then there's the actual shipping of data cores to a market hub. Nobody pays decent prices in Kador, Tash Murkon or similar arse-end-of-the-universe regions.

So the trip is either done in an Orca or a blockade runner, at-keyboard all the way. There's no sense hauling a few tens of millions of ISK around the cluster in a Mammoth. At the end of this, I'll have about 60-80M ISK worth of data cores. This income compares favourably with L4 missions or hisec grav site mining in terms of ISK/hr. Sure, I can increase the ISK/hr ratio by only collecting the data cores once every three months or so: at the cost of the data cores I'm collecting being out of fashion. Part of the process of making ISK from data cores is listing them on the market and ensuring I get the highest price I can. If I don't, that potential 80M ISK worth of data cores a month becomes more like 50M ISK as my market gets destroyed by FOTM-farmers. Maximising income from data cores is a long-term project, involving another 10-20 minutes a day of reviewing market orders (for which you must be in the appropriate region).

Anyone who thinks data cores are actually passive income has rocks in their head. It's no more passive than running L4s in a Tengu (which is mind numbingly boring compared to mining).

I'm not stocking up, but I'm not cashing out either. Buying on a JIT-basis as I need them.

I really think it's a case of CCP not understanding the datacore market. Is it passive income? Technically yes. But it's not an ISK faucet and the items are only worth what other players will pay for them, which has gotten less and less over the years. So now you have to spend 2-6 weeks grinding up standings, plus 50M ISK in skill books, only to end up with an income source that pays out somewhere around 1.8 datacores/day (if you do not run missions). That works out to a measly 8-15M ISK/mo per agent (30-60 days to earn back your 50M ISK).

Frankly, if CCP has common sense, they won't touch the passive RP/day or the RP cost of datacores at all. That gives the market a baseline supply to feed the growing subscriber base.

Instead they should simply boost supply:

1) Increase the RP reward that you get from doing the daily R&D mission. Boost that payout by 3x-5x and the people who are willing to do the daily missions will end up with the bulk of the reward. It keeps the Research Project Management skill as a viable skill, plus you need the datacore skills in order to talk to the agent.

2) Add the racial engineering datacores to the FW corps LP stores. Maybe you can only buy them if you train the datacore skill to some level. Or set a minimum standing requirement.

3) Add the other datacores to the R&D NPC corp LP stores. If you can currently talk to an R&D agent and get RP in a particular datacore area, then that NPC corp should also sell the datacores of that type. Maybe you can only buy them if you train the datacore skill to some level. Maybe set a minimum standing requirement, or introduce a discount of up to 20% as your standing with the corp gets closer to +10.

Boosting supply means that passive-only earners will end up with less ISK/month, without completely pulling the rug out from under them in an abrupt fashion. You tick off fewer people if you slowly nerf passive R&D farming as an income source then if you simply remove it right off the bat.

Boys and girls - do your math again.
On tier1 FW miltia pays 1k lp + 1m for 5 datacores
Tier 2 - 500 lp + 500k isk
Tier 3 - (speculation) 250 lp + 250k isk
Tier 4 - ?
Tier 5 - ?

ATM Amarr Militia is capable to reach Tier2 only with their 20 systems FULLY uprgaded (150k lp investend in EACH hub)
Apoc Navy on tier2 costs 500k lp + apoc hull
Armag Navy on tier2 costs 300k lp + armag hull
Omen Navy on tier2 costs 90k lp + omen hull
Slicer - 20klp + tag

Enjoy your math

PICS OR IT DIDINT HAPPEN

So, I wonder how the new dev blog of Faction Warfare will affect the datacore prices...

I'm reducing my exposure to these until I better run the numbers and determine the risks.

Depends how the dynamic pricing works out on live I guess but I'm guessing CCP have a target LP-isk conversion rate in mind to balance around and I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that's 1000isk per LP. Which would mean 400k datacores. Which would make my post #4 above yet another of my string of dodgy predictions :o)

(Oh and Celi Annor - I see you've been buying up some of my relisted cores which would suggest you're doing just what you said you were doing on the forum - I thought the accepted forum protocol was to post "omg sell!" before buying :o)

I cant predict how this will turn out.
But I invested in the datacores below 200k. My reasoning is that LP will be used on the Datacores that atm have the highest price, so over time all the datacore will balance out.
Approximately 1000 ISK/LP has been a guideline for a long time (or at least used to be).
With the current price (havent even checked the numbers my self) 1000LP + 1mil ISK = 5 Datacores, it ends up around 200k each.
All of this is subject to changes in the patch and ofc how the dynamic pricing will work, but I guess thats the risk one take.

But this isn't why I posted.
I am confused by people who complain about ISK/h or how this is not an passive income..
I can only tell you how it works for me and you guys can tell me if it is passive or not and if I should complain about ISK/h.

On average spread over several accounts and characters I think it was around 2 years since the last time I collected any datacores.

So for 2 years I have done Nothing and now because Soundwave said so, I spent an hour or an hour and a half on each character to collect. Before that I think it was a year or so since I did it.

To me it has been a very nice income, for a in comparison short period of invested time in Skill training and mission running.

If you like, so ofc you can make RP collecting anything but passive. You can even start doing mission for them every day if you like. But I think you have missed what Soundwave refer to as a passive income. And maybe if you were looking for an passive income in RP you have failed to make it one ;-) Most likely the changes isn't meant to screw you over but are aimed at guys like me and apparently Soundwave!

Should see datacores priced 400k-600k

It seems clear that datacores will go up in price with the changes (nerfs to supply no real change to demand) however how large do we think the current stock of datacores are, if there are people sat on 10s of thousands will that smooth the curve of the price over a period of a few months? Or will speculation mean the price is almost at its final value on patch day?

I'm thinking a bit of a robotics type scenario whereby people start trying to dump them once the price goes up a just a little bit but the full profits wont come about for maybe 6 months or so.

I think you are underestimating FW missioners' ability to grind out LP to use on datacores

[quote=Arec Bardwin]i think people expecting these to go up much and busy relisting everything are in for rude awakening.

Really? Because I woke up this morning to a ****-ton of my relisted datacores having sold at 40-50% markups.

It seems clear that datacores will go up in price with the changes (nerfs to supply no real change to demand) however how large do we think the current stock of datacores are, if there are people sat on 10s of thousands will that smooth the curve of the price over a period of a few months? Or will speculation mean the price is almost at its final value on patch day?

I'm thinking a bit of a robotics type scenario whereby people start trying to dump them once the price goes up a just a little bit but the full profits wont come about for maybe 6 months or so.

I do think you got a point here. There are quite a few players who have done the grind in the past but never bothered to pickup. Only one 1 char i'm sitting on 500k RP. Multiplied by x number of chars. That's a SHITload of cores.

This will keep price down for a while and preventing the FW peops from converting LP to cores (until prices rise enough again).

I do think you got a point here. There are quite a few players who have done the grind in the past but never bothered to pickup. Only one 1 char i'm sitting on 500k RP. Multiplied by x number of chars. That's a SHITload of cores.

This will keep price down for a while and preventing the FW peops from converting LP to cores (until prices rise enough again).

Little light to your 'investment plans'...

Lets assume i have 2m LPs for exchange in Amarr FW LP store.

Usually ppl will go for ships then conversion ratio isks/lp looks like this:

Scenario where Amarr militia gets only TIER2 (very probable)

Apocalypse Navy Issue 500k LP + Apock Hull + Chip

Lets assume 450m constant sell price.

NAME - ISKs per LP
Apoc Tier1310
Apoc Tier2620
Apoc Tier31240 <- Currently status on TQ
Apoc Tier42480

Lets look at datacores in Tier2 scenario. Lets assume datacore price 250k isk

NAME - ISKs per LP[/b]
Datacore Tier1250
Datacore Tier21500
Datacore Tier34000
Datacore Tier49000

As you can see its more profitable to go for datacores than for ships if datacore price will be around 250k/unit.

Lets say datacore costs 200k isk
Datacore Tier10
Datacore Tier21000
Datacore Tier33000
Datacore Tier47000

In 200k/unit scenario conversion isk on tier 2 is still acceptable and ppl will go for it like theyre going for ships with similar conversion ratio - 1000 isk / LP

Things start to look intresting at Tier3 - 3000 isk / LP for datacore costing 200k/unit where conversion ratio is very good and ships get... only 1240 Who smart would go for ships when you can get 3000 for datacores ? :)

Lets assume datacore will be 150k / unit and look at tier3 scenario

Datacore tier1-500
Datacore tier20
Datacore tier32000
Datacore tier43000

To get 1000isk/LP ratio datacore in tier3 would have to sell for 100k/unit

In Tier3 we can still get 2000 isk / LP even if datacore price sill be 150k/unit. Thats good ratio.


Now lets go back to my 2m LPs... for that i can buy on poor tier2 scenario :
2 000 000 LP / 500 LP * 5 = 20 000 datacores
I would have to pay in isks : 4000 * 500k = 2b (see isk sink in here from CCP?)
I would sell them for 20 000 * 250k = 5b
Profit : 5b - 2b = 3b

Now tell me what profit would i get with your cosmic 400k+/unit datacore prices?
And look at those bilions which will go for exchanging datacores...
Curently if ppl buy ships from LP store they give LPs + Hull = Ship - with datacore scenario CCP creates isk sink for billions of isk.

The real question is whether or not the LP generated thru FW can make up the shortfall produced by the Hi-Sec nerf.

With those isk/lp rates he estimates FW will crawl with farmers.

There's also the rather entertaining idea of just how much LP will be required to really supply datacores properly, but that's another matter...

Does anybody know what the format is to turn in LP for cores? Is it the same for agents where a number of cores is typed into a bar or is it similar to customs office bpc's where you have to hit the accept key 1000 times? If it is the latter, in order to get 20000 cores like the above poster made example out of, you would have to hit the accept key 4000 times lol. :)

Interesting, let's look at that;

At a lowly tier 1 upgrade 5x DC are 500k isk + 500LP

To supply 100k datacores you would require (100.000/5) x 500 LP = 10 million LP (5 million at tier 2 upgrade etc)

Is it still as easy as before to farm FW missions on Sisi? Because I remember I could really rack up some serious LP in one evening blitzing the missions.

This would actually be quite a pain

What, exactly, do you consider to be "some serious LP", on a daily basis?