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Why do so many ppl fail at selling stuff?

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General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.18 02:21:00 - [1] So abaddons ran out of stock in rens. Quickly I started building some Sold one for 159mill isk - very nice like 25mill profit. I make two more. What do I see? Some **** has put up 18 abaddons for 149mill. Why the hell would anyone put up something just above the normal price when there is no one else competing on the market. fracking **ed. Why do they even bother manufacturing if they are so fail at it. Do ppl like that even make any isk. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie**
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2009.03.18 02:25:00 - [2] They might want to liquidate assets and price for a quick sale. My favourite is when someone cuts the market price to 1/3 and puts up 3 months supply of the item expecting it to sell instantly. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Jinx Barker Caldari GFB Scientific	Posted - 2009.03.18 02:40:00 - [3] They think minerals are "free?" ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2009.03.18 02:42:00 - [4] Could be a number of things. To name a few, maybe someone sourced their minerals at a lower price than you and therefore they're still making profit. Or perhaps they think, like this buffoon, that if they make even one isk profit then they're doing it right. Maybe they have some secret ulterior motive in reducing Abaddon prices to their previous levels. Or of course, as you say, they just fail at manufacturing.
Madcat Adams Amarr Romulan Technologies Limited	Posted - 2009.03.18 02:54:00 - [5] Any profit is doing it right. Just not doing it efficently. Then, it's true they could have a plan to run some of the competition out of business.. -----
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.03.18 03:02:00 - [6] What? You don't like my technique? It's working isn't it? Blueprint Store
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.18 03:21:00 - [7] Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 03:23:28 what competition?! There was no one else having ships on the market at the time. Doesnt matter what they bought the minerals for either. If you can make 10mill isk more / ship then you can. Theres no reason to sell it for regional average if you are alone at the market. Also "running someone else out of business" in eve is a doesn't work, I hope no one thinks you can actually do that. As you have no static costs no one will get ruined cause you undercut them. They simply will manufacture something else and make more profit then you then return once your ships for almost no profit at all has sold and they make profit again. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
Vested Interest	Posted - 2009.03.18 03:57:00 - [8] All you gotta do is wait for those 18 to sell out and the margin will be back where you want it.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.03.18 04:23:00 - [9] Maybe he only wants to make 15mil instead of 25mil :) He could also be preventing price gouging. Something I do because I'm a ass with my products. What happens when something sells out? More often then not someone will place a sell order for the item at a massive markup. Then all of a sudden there is a RUSH from others who see.. OMG Abaddons are selling for 170mil at Rens LOAD THE FREIGHTERS! Traders from all over EVE rush to Rens to sell their 130mil Abaddons for 170mil, now Rens is flooded, crashing the market down to 131mil. Buy someone acting quick and placing a reasonable price, they are protecting that item from Traders trying to make a quick buck hopping they'll sell just 1 Abaddon for high price making the whole trip worth while. You shouldn't be downing the person for protecting the Rens market from none Rens traders. Amarr for Life
Maven Deltor	Posted - 2009.03.18 04:49:00 - [10] What's the point of your thread? Do you think people will increase their profit margins because you posted on the forums? Doubtful. Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 03:23:28 what competition?! Uh, you are apparently looking to break into the trade hub. Just because there isn't any other order at the moment, doesn't mean there isn't competition. He sells at what he sells and it works for him. If you can find profit in that environment, good for you. If you can't, he wins and you move on.

cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.03.18 05:11:00 - [11] Yeah you sold one, but the person selling 18 may have had all his production minerals tied up in that batch. Sell em, purchase more minerals, make more ships, etc... 7 ships a day at 10-15M per ship is very nice thanks. A quicker gauranteed sale (but still profitable) can be more important than waiting for the max profit. Got to turn those BPO's 24/7 to garner the max value. An Abaddon BPO needs at least 3.5-4.5B ISK spare capital to perma run and sell all the ships. Also if it annoys other sellers, that is also fun.
Tauranon Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.03.18 05:38:00 - [12] Originally by: General Coochie So abaddons ran out of stock in rens. Quickly I started building some Sold one for 159mill isk - very nice like 25mill profit. I make two more. What do I see? Some **** has put up 18 abaddons for 149mill. Why the hell would anyone put up something just above the normal price when there is no one else competing on the market. fracking ****ed. Why do they even bother manufacturing if they are so fail at it. Do ppl like that even make any isk. By listing at reasonable prices, he convinces gougers to stay out of 'his' market. It seems like he's caught you out before you committed to building 30 of the things. If you'd built 30, you'd then need to dump in 'his' market. He also convinces people to buy abaddons, instead of some other ship type, which he may not be able to assemble as profitably.
Maxwell Terallis	Posted - 2009.03.18 06:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Frenden Dax Could be a number of things. To name a few, maybe someone sourced their minerals at a lower price than you and therefore they're still making profit. Or perhaps they think, like this buffoon, that if they make even one isk profit then they're doing it right. Maybe they have some secret ulterior motive in reducing Abaddon prices to their previous levels. Or of course, as you say, they just fail at manufacturing. How kind of you to care so much about my post to link it in another! Balloons for everyone!
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.03.18 06:44:00 - [14] Tears,,, nom!
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.18 07:24:00 - [15] For some, turnaround is more important then margin. Deal. Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Crimsona Endarius	Posted - 2009.03.18 08:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Frenden Dax Could be a number of things. To name a few, maybe someone sourced their minerals at a lower price than you and therefore they're still making profit. Or perhaps they think, like this buffoon, that if they make even one isk profit then they're doing it right. Maybe they have some secret ulterior motive in reducing Abaddon prices to their previous levels. Or of course, as you say, they just fail at manufacturing. That was uncalled for.
Psi Draconis	Posted - 2009.03.18 09:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Psi Draconis on 18/03/2009 09:01:30 Originally by: General Coochie So abaddons ran out of stock in rens. Quickly I started building some Sold one for 159mill isk - very nice like 25mill profit. I make two more. What do I see? Some **** has put up 18 abaddons for 149mill. Why the hell would anyone put up something just above the normal price when there is no one else competing on the market. fracking ****ed. Why do they even bother manufacturing if they are so fail at it. Do ppl like that even make any isk. Actually, you just got pwn'd. Some guys are trading much more smaller marginals than rest of us and much wide volume using multiple characters. They just want to drop you out of the game. Sounds like they did it.
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.18 09:07:00 - [18] Originally by: General Coochie So abaddons ran out of stock in rens. Quickly I started building some Sold one for 159mill isk - very nice like 25mill profit. I make two more. What do I see? Some **** has put up 18 abaddons for 149mill. Why the hell would anyone put up something just above the normal price when there is no one else competing on the market. fracking **ed. Why do they even bother manufacturing if they are so fail at it. Do ppl like that even make any isk. And they call you griefters... Welcome to the Market. This is where roam. Originally by:** Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.18 09:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Ji Sama on 18/03/2009 09:21:18 i think the op fails at understanding marketmanipulation... it is posible to control a market... i am making 150K isk of something i buy for 600 isk, or paying 120K isk for something i sell for 550K isk. if someone is entering my market i do one of three things. i outbuy him if i think its profitable, if he is really cheap i dont mind spending 100 or 200 million isk on freezing him out.. i undercut him! or i let him sell his... its all about marketresearch. "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.18 09:57:00 - [20] Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 09:57:58 Yeah I'm ranting and realize this will make no difference but... I've been doing the market for more then a year. My very first month I started this as an experiment having 65mill isk, by the end of that month I had 750mill isk (+1000% profit). Thank you very much I know what I'm talking about. I don't make as much these days cause market competition is higher and there are more idiots on it but I do make enough. To be noted I now have sold two more abaddons for still a nice profit. The guy putting up 18 abaddons still haven't sold a single one. What does this mean? In 1 day I turned over about 400mill isk to 457mill isk. 14% profit is ok. The guy with the abaddons have about 2.5bill isk invested and still haven't made 1 isk of it. Meanwhile I naturally invest in a bunch of other ships that are more profitable with the rest of my isk. To be noted is that I the day before that sold dominix's in amarr for 67mill isk. and so on.... Yeah the guy might have made me stop producing abaddons in rens for the moment, but I'm making way more profit then he is with 1/5th of the capital invested (looking at the abaddons only). I could keep making a few and undercut him over and over and he would sit there with his 18 abaddons and 2.5bill isk invested. Also I'm not the only one in the market more ppl will come and undercut him. Quote: For some, turnaround is more important then margin. Deal. Same for me, but putting 18 abaddons on the market or undercutting someone a lot is not the same as a higher turnaround, quite the opposite in fact. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie

Iskyu Geiveme	Posted - 2009.03.18 10:41:00 - [21] Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 09:57:58 Yeah I'm ranting and realize this will make no difference but... I've been doing the market for more then a year. My very first month I started this as an experiment having 65mill isk, by the end of that month I had 750mill isk (+1000% profit). Thank you very much I know what I'm talking about. I don't make as much these days cause market competition is higher and there are more idiots on it but I do make enough. To be noted I now have sold two more abaddons for still a nice profit. The guy putting up 18 abaddons still haven't sold a single one. What does this mean? In 1 day I turned over about 400mill isk to 457mill isk. 14% profit is ok. The guy with the abaddons have about 2.5bill isk invested and still haven't made 1 isk of it. Meanwhile I naturally invest in a bunch of other ships that are more profitable with the rest of my isk. To be noted is that I the day before that sold dominix's in amarr for 67mill isk. and so on.... Yeah the guy might have made me stop producing abaddons in rens for the moment, but I'm making way more profit then he is with 1/5th of the capital invested (looking at the abaddons only). I could keep making a few and undercut him over and over and he would sit there with his 18 abaddons and 2.5bill isk invested. Also I'm not the only one in the market more ppl will come and undercut him. Quote: For some, turnaround is more important then margin. Deal. Same for me, but putting 18 abaddons on the market or undercutting someone a lot is not the same as a higher turnaround, quite the opposite in fact. So let me see if i have this strait. You whine that there were no Abbadons on the rens market, so you rushed to build some and list at inflated price. You then had a massive emo moment because someone else loaded the market with 18 ships at a lower price and you felt he stole your profits. Then a few posts later you cackle that this person has made no sales of these said Abbadons and that because you were forced to move you were able to make a few isk elsewere while his lower priced ships are not selling. Ok my question is.... would you be more happy if he didn't list his ships so you could instead have your ships listed there at a higher price and also not selling?
Nick Turing	Posted - 2009.03.18 11:21:00 - [22] Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 09:57:58 Yeah I'm ranting and realize this will make no difference but... I've been doing the market for more then a year. My very first month I started this as an experiment having 65mill isk, by the end of that month I had 750mill isk (+1000% profit). Thank you very much I know what I'm talking about. I don't make as much these days cause market competition is higher and there are more idiots on it but I do make enough. Thing is, idiots are inefficient. You can make profit off idiots, because they do stupid things. So either these people are good for you, in which case, you shouldn't be complaining, or they're not idiots, in which case, they just plain undercut you; sorry, you fail, better luck next time.
Frosty Nuggetz	Posted - 2009.03.18 11:24:00 - [23] Originally by: General Coochie So abaddons ran out of stock in rens. Quickly I started building some Sold one for 159mill isk - very nice like 25mill profit. I make two more. What do I see? Some **** has put up 18 abaddons for 149mill. Why the hell would anyone put up something just above the normal price when there is no one else competing on the market. fracking ****ed. Why do they even bother manufacturing if they are so fail at it. Do ppl like that even make any isk. Because they have the attention span of goldfish? Who knows, but the resulting inattentiveness of many is good for my wallet.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.18 11:32:00 - [24] Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 11:35:35 Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 11:33:37 Originally by: Iskyu Geiveme So let me see if i have this strait. You whine that there were no Abbadons on the rens market, so you rushed to build some and list at inflated price. You then had a massive emo moment because someone else loaded the market with 18 ships at a lower price and you felt he stole your profits. Then a few posts later you cackle that this person has made no sales of these said Abbadons and that because you were forced to move you were able to make a few isk elsewere while his lower priced ships are not selling. Ok my question is.... would you be more happy if he didn't list his ships so you could instead have your ships listed there at a higher price and also not selling? Its good to see so few understand the eve market. Because he instantly got undercut by the few other ppl (me one of them) on the market selling for a few isk lower. He isn't selling due to the price but due to being undercut by me with 1 isk and not updating his order often enough, which is the most important thing if you wanna buy and sell stuff, not the price cause demand is high in a trade hub, always.. . If he wasn't there I would have sold my 2 other Abaddons for 159 mill without a doubt. I've done this many many times The reason I whine about it, is that its always the 18 BS ship guys that come along and ruins my and others profit and they hardly make any themselves. I've seen this over and over. They get no ships sold cause they aren't updating their orders often enough, but they force everyone else into less profits. Quote: Thing is, idiots are inefficient. You can make profit off idiots, because they do stupid things. So either these people are good for you, in which case, you shouldn't be complaining, or they're not idiots, in which case, they just plain undercut you; sorry, you fail, better luck next time. You are right, I should be grateful really, more smart ppl would probably mean harder competition. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.18 11:51:00 - [25] its funny how you think that you need to be online all the time and play the 0.01 isk game to make money, i make just fine (around 200-500 million isk per day) and i check my orders 3-4 times per day tops. not all trade like you.. i find a niche and control that, this way i dont have to worry about playing any 0.01 isk games, because im the only one dealing in the item and i have stocks and the capital to go into a price war... and most people dont want that so they move their stuff.. as said.. 3 things you can do.. undercut buyout default/wait "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Confuzer I	Posted - 2009.03.18 12:34:00 - [26] If you are so confident, just buy them all and put them on market again at your higher prices. Saves you alot of time building and hauling these babies too :D
Zarin Karzi	Posted - 2009.03.18 13:34:00 - [27] I wonder if maybe your getting confused between trader & producer... As a trader, I want to make sure I take a cut of whatever sales are going on, manipulate the prices and so forth... as a producer, I want a nice stable, consistent market whereby I can be sure of selling my product. In short, a trader will happily destroy a market to make a few isk, and then move on, whereas a producer with invested capital, would prefer to protect his market. As a producer, if I can keep traders out of my market, by ensuring its not worth their time; then I can keep prices low, ensuring people always come to my hub, and also take a decent profit, because there's no middle man... Now obviously, this is only a model, and life is more complicated; but hey, wouldn't be any fun if it was that easy
Ji Sama	Posted - 2009.03.18 14:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Zarin Karzi I wonder if maybe your getting confused between trader & producer... As a trader, I want to make sure I take a cut of whatever sales are going on, manipulate the prices and so forth... as a producer, I want a nice stable, consistent market whereby I can be sure of selling my product. In short, a trader will happily destroy a market to make a few isk, and then move on, whereas a producer with invested capital, would prefer to protect his market. As a producer, if I can keep traders out of my market, by ensuring its not worth their time; then I can keep prices low, ensuring people always come to my hub, and also take a decent profit, because there's no middle man... Now obviously, this is only a model, and life is more complicated; but hey, wouldn't be any fun if it was that easy this!
Iskyu Geiveme	Posted - 2009.03.18 14:17:00 - [29] Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 11:44:00 Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 11:33:37 Originally by: Iskyu Geiveme So let me see if i have this strait. You whine that there were no Abbadons on the rens market, so you rushed to build some and list at inflated price. You then had a massive emo moment because someone else loaded the market with 18 ships at a lower price and you felt he stole your profits. Then a few posts later you cackle that this person has made no sales of these said Abbadons and that because you were forced to move you were able to make a few isk elsewere while his lower priced ships are not selling. Ok my question is.... would you be more happy if he didn't list his ships so you could instead have your ships listed there at a higher price and also not selling? Its good to see so few understand the eve market. Because he instantly got undercut by the few other ppl (me one of them) on the market selling for a few isk lower. He isn't selling due to the price but due to being undercut by me with 1 isk and not updating his order often enough, which is the most important thing if you wanna buy and sell stuff, not the price cause demand is high in a trade hub, always.. . If he wasn't there I would have sold my 2 other Abaddons for 159 mill without a doubt. I've done this many many times The reason I whine about it, is that its always the 18 BS ship guys that come along and ruins my and others profit and they hardly make any themselves. I've seen this over and over. They get no ships sold cause they aren't updating their orders often enough, but they force everyone else into less profits. Quote: Thing is, idiots are inefficient. You can make profit off idiots, because they do stupid things. So either these people are good for you, in which case, you shouldn't be complaining, or they're not idiots, in which case, they just plain undercut you; sorry, you fail, better luck next time. You are right, I should be grateful really, more smart ppl would probably mean harder competition. Also it was almost 4 am, I was a bit grumpy He got you to sell your ships at the price he set. TBH if he is like many other producers i know, then some of the people undercutting him are his own alts. This way he dictates the price ceiling, and is moving product. And yes you are correct, they force everyone else into less profits.
Dzil Caldari Apache Research Team	Posted - 2009.03.18 17:10:00 - [30] Originally by: General Coochie Sold one for 159mill isk - very nice like 25mill profit. I make two more. What do I see? Some ****** has put up 18 abaddons for 149mill. Guess that poor bastard is only going to make 270 mil to your 25?

zombeee Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.03.18 20:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Iskyu Geiveme TBH if he is like many other producers i know, then some of the people undercutting him are his own alts. This way he dictates the price ceiling, and is moving product. Or they set multiple sell orders at different prices on the same character, to be able to change their orders more frequently.
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2009.03.18 20:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Professor Leech They might want to liquidate assets and price for a quick sale. My favourite is when someone cuts the market price to 1/3 and puts up 3 months supply of the item expecting it to sell instantly. You then buy it all up thus making him right?
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.18 22:18:00 - [33] Edited by: General Coochie on 18/03/2009 22:23:35 Originally by: Dzil Originally by: General Coochie Sold one for 159mill isk - very nice like 25mill profit. I make two more. What do I see? Some **** has put up 18 abaddons for 149mill. Guess that poor bastard is only going to make 270 mil to your 25? Thing is my other bill in investments bring in about the same profit. So no he is not making more isk then me. By the time he sells them 18 abaddons I sold 2.5 bill investments over and over and over. I dont know maybe I suck at producing? But I think that making 50-100% profit / month is not bad. So if I invest 200mill I make a 100-200mill per month. (Naturally I invest a lot more then 200mill.) Whats your profit / month? Also I see what you mean when you say that they undercut so ppl leave the market (like me) so they can safely sell their ships. However.. There are a lot more ppl involved in the market most times when the profit is reasonable. Abaddons in rens are an exception at the moment as this guy is still pretty much alone with me and a few others selling abaddons. Normally there be several more ppl in the market by now starting to crash it down to 5% profit. Playing the 0.01 isk games takes what? 1min of your time. If I'm playing eve anyway I do logg my alt in to sort this out every now and then. Maybe like you said 2-5 times a day. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie**
Patri Andari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2009.03.18 22:26:00 - [34] Originally by: zombeee Originally by: Iskyu Geiveme TBH if he is like many other producers i know, then some of the people undercutting him are his own alts. This way he dictates the price ceiling, and is moving product. Or they set multiple sell orders at different prices on the same character, to be able to change their orders more frequently. Confirming these tactics are good. Patri A fool usually thinks he is a genius
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.18 22:28:00 - [35] Quote: If you are so confident, just buy them all and put them on market again at your higher prices. Saves you alot of time building and hauling these babies too :D What I'm trying to say is; building 18 ships of the same type (or buying them) is not profitable. Theres always someone undercutting you making sales slow. Its way better to invest in a lot of things, especially whatever is highly profitable at the very moment. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.19 05:31:00 - [36] Some context for y'all. Amarr ships don't sell for crap in Heimatar. As you may know laz0rs are not quite as effective as harsh language against the local Angel rats. So your "idiot" (and I think I know exactly the manufacturer in question) is doing precisely what I did in that market. Build a huge batch, throw it out there at Jita material cost +5% and forget about it for a month. Lowends and mission loot both are pretty cheap in Heimatar so the actual profit is far higher than it appears. That easy. It's simply not worth the typing to play .01 isk footsie for 3 days in hopes of selling one hull at maximum ISK. If you want obscene margins with no competition try selling your abaddons in Derelik or Devoid. Granted, there may be no buyers either...
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.19 05:42:00 - [37] Edited by: Clair Bear on 19/03/2009 05:44:51 Originally by: General Coochie [ What I'm trying to say is; building 18 ships of the same type (or buying them) is not profitable. Theres always someone undercutting you making sales slow. Its way better to invest in a lot of things, especially whatever is highly profitable at the very moment. Only if you live in empire 100% of the time. Now, this was my situation a few months ago. I lived 53 jumps from empire and ran 1 account for six months. I typically only spent 24 hours in empire every week, if that. So I had a 24 hour window to melt the mountains of rat loot my buy orders accumulated, deliver jobs built over the week and put them on the market. I simply couldn't pull off just in time manufacture. But it was still worth doing the "tradufacturing" thang. Evemeep claimed I pulled in 1B/month ratting and 1.6B/month trading. Not bad for one character doing industry 4 days a month!
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.03.19 16:21:00 - [38] Edited by: General Coochie on 19/03/2009 16:22:37 Originally by: Clair Bear Some context for y'all. Amarr ships don't sell for crap in Heimatar. As you may know laz0rs are not quite as effective as harsh language against the local Angel rats. So your "idiot" (and I think I know exactly the manufacturer in question) is doing precisely what I did in that market. Build a huge batch, throw it out there at Jita material cost +5% and forget about it for a month. Lowends and mission loot both are pretty cheap in Heimatar so the actual profit is far higher than it appears. That easy. It's simply not worth the typing to play .01 isk footsie for 3 days in hopes of selling one hull at maximum ISK. If you want obscene margins with no competition try selling your abaddons in Derelik or Devoid. Granted, there may be no buyers either... I've sold 7 in 3 days now, good enough (105mill profit), would probably have sold more if I made more but I thought the market would get flooded like it always does when profit is around 10%. You should get a manufacturer alt :P But I see the reason for doing it in large bulks in that context. However its not efficient if you do wanna cash in the isk as I see it. Quote: Lowends and mission loot both are pretty cheap in Heimatar so the actual profit is far higher than it appears. Dont understand what you mean by that really. You said you made 1bill trading, how much did you invest in trading during this period? I'm interested in you profit in % to see if my way really sucks as much as some of you make it out to do. It would only take me 1-1,5bill investments to make 1 bill a month. Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie


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