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Should Warp Disruption Bubbles be allowed in WSpace?

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Denaris Aschanna	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:03:00 - [1] I've been reading over the past couple of days how WSpace has become the new pirates playground. Now whilst I have no objections to this per se, I do feel that those who are using bubbles at the entry points of wormholes are, to put it bluntly, taking the ***. They're players looking for easy kills at little risk to themselves, taking on people that are more than likely flying probing ships. True, you can probably pop back through the wormhole if you're quick, but a lot of newer players will probably panic and end up being ganked. To my mind, bubbles are a perfectly valid mechanic in 0.0 warfare - Alliances have to protect their space for example. However WSpace belongs to nobody* save the sleepers - you can't claim sovereignty there, so why should you be allowed to trap anything and everything that comes through a wormhole? The whole focus of WSpace is exploration - if you're in there you're using scan probes, so I think players should have to work for their fix of PvP combat; if you feel the need to camp an entrance, do it the old fashioned way that requires skill with a good tackler. If you fail there, scan them down and finish the job! What I'd actually like to see is WSpace made harder for everyone. I'd love to see bubbles not function near a wormhole - anywhere else in WSpace, fine. I'd really love to see the sleepers actively search out players in their space involved in PvP combat, and take on everyone they find. Let's get one thing clear - This post isn't a whine, nor have I lost any ships whilst exploring this new phenomenon, and I don't intend to. I'm not quitting EVE, so no, you can't have my stuff! Just my two pence worth, I'm interested to see what others have to say on the subject.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:07:00 - [2] Irregardless of our opinion, bubble are there and they will stay. So better adapt.
Scyala	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:09:00 - [3] Since laws of physics don't always match in Wspace (shields and warp drives perform eradicly) they should make so the bubbles sometimes work and sometimes don't and sometimes increase ships aligning time and sometimes are twice the size :D. That would be great. Would love to see a big gank fleet watch as an Orca instantly aligns and warps out of their bubble.
Zex Maxwell Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:11:00 - [4] First off, I was ****ed that pirates were using WH to gank people inside them. they should be used for exploration. But your posted reminded me about something, Wspace belongs to No one, so anyone can use them for what they want, Both explores and pirates alike.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:13:00 - [5] CIHYS?
Zex Maxwell Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Scyala Since laws of physics don't always match in Wspace (shields and warp drives perform eradicly) they should make so the bubbles sometimes work and sometimes don't and sometimes increase ships aligning time and sometimes are twice the size :D. That would be great. Would love to see a big gank fleet watch as an Orca instantly aligns and warps out of their bubble. lol ---
Mashie Saldana Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Zex Maxwell First off, I was ****ed that pirates were using WH to gank people inside them. they should be used for exploration. But your posted reminded me about something, Wspace belongs to No one, so anyone can use them for what they want, Both explores and pirates alike. Did it cross your mind that it might have been other explorers that didn't want to share the system?
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:57:00 - [8] Yes. Glad I could be of service on this matter. ------------------------ Please do not discuss moderation in your sig - Mitnal
charming wanderer	Posted - 2009.03.18 18:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Venkul Mul Irregardless of our opinion, bubble are there and they will stay. So better adapt. GAH!!!! Please stop making yourself sound like a moron... "Irregardless" is not a real word!!! In fact if you try and analyze it as if it WAS a real word it ends up being a double negative (not being without regard??)... As for bubbles in wormspace, well being that w-space is totally outside of any jursidiction, what is to keep the bubbles from being used? The only reason they are not allowed in empire space is because the empires do not allow their use, and seeing as how there are no governing bodies in w-space, what reasoning can they put behind denying their use? The sleepers don't allow them?
Primnproper	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:01:00 - [10] Although I disagree with your point in general, if it was to become an issue CCP wanted to deal with then this... Originally by: Denaris Aschanna I'd love to see bubbles not function near a wormhole - anywhere else in WSpace, fine. Is definately the way I'd prefer to see it done. As for the bubble problem, I've been doing loads of wh's from lowsec and I haven't seen a bubble yet ... Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?

Denaris Aschanna	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Zex Maxwell Wspace belongs to No one, so anyone can use them for what they want, Both explores and pirates alike. I agree totally - I'm not saying that Pirates should be stopped from using WSpace as a killing ground, far from it; I'm suggesting that the playing field should be harder for everyone. If someone is ganked the moment they step through a wormhole, where's the fun in that? currently the gankers can sit at the entrance at little to no risk to themselves, popping anything that emerges. Now imagine if the use of weapons might attract the attention of a nearby gang of sleepers - be it at a wormhole, asteroid belt etc, and proceeded to attack anything and everything that wasn't another sleeper - including the person(s) unfortunate enough to land in the middle of a camp! To my mind this would add a whole new layer to combat - do you take the chance of attacking somebody knowing that any minute a sleeper squad might warp on top of you? If you're lucky they might attack your victim first leaving you time to get away, otherwise.. pop..
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:03:00 - [12] Yes. Also newbs that panic are hardly the foundation of good game mechanics. If you have any experience whatsoever you are not going to die in a wh camp unless they camp both sides (in which case you can spot them on the directional scanner before going there in the first place). -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
BBQ Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Did it cross your mind that it might have been other explorers that didn't want to share the system? It crossed my mind that the local high sec system had a fleet jump through the gate and gank every single newbie they could lure inside the WH. Not sure how good the fleet (10BS and 15 support ships at my count as I watched them jump through) felt at killing noobie frigates as they started testing the scanning waters but I bet the new players wont be back into W space any time soon which is a big loss to the game. No, I saw the gank fest unfold so didn't follow. Bubbles in W-Space are ok, sitting ganking new beginner players for "fun" is morally wrong, but then again EvE brings out the immorally in most of it. ---- God gave us a brain, he also gave us a voice. Shame some people have yet to connect them.
Doktor Quick	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:04:00 - [14] I like the idea of making them erratic, it would fit in with the whole theme as well as even the odds a little.
Denaris Aschanna	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:07:00 - [15] Originally by: charming wanderer As for bubbles in wormspace, well being that w-space is totally outside of any jursidiction, what is to keep the bubbles from being used? The only reason they are not allowed in empire space is because the empires do not allow their use, and seeing as how there are no governing bodies in w-space, what reasoning can they put behind denying their use? The sleepers don't allow them? The easiest and most logical explaination would be that a local wormhole would prevent a stable bubble from forming due to spacial disruptions from said wormhole. Anywhere else, bubbles would still work fine.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:08:00 - [16] lol morals this thread is going to be fun. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Bloody Palm	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:13:00 - [17] Edited by: Bloody Palm on 18/03/2009 19:14:15 People complaining about bubbles in w-space need to be better informed on game mechanics. The only useful purpose of the bubble is to keep people from warping straight to the wormhole exit when they see a ship/probes on scan. It does stop you from warping out when jumping in, however, that is solved fairly simply by jumping back out. Assuming you are coming from highsec into a wormhole: Jump into wormhole If the w-system is camped, approach wormhole and jump back out...You load into the system within jump range of the wormhole so there is no excuse to die when entering the wormhole except your own stupidity.
Denaris Aschanna	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Myra2007 Edit: Plus the obvious question: why are you (or anyone for that matter) entering w-space without a proper scout? That can even be your prober he will hardly ever die in a camp if he is in a cov ops. Personally, I don't go anywhere risky without scouting it first in a Covops.. but surely, even from the pirates point of view, it would be more fun to let the ships into the system first, then attack them away from the wormhole! You get their prober first and possibly some others in their gang, and watch them panic and pray the entrance is still there as they warp back!
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:17:00 - [19] Oh noes, never imagined wormhole exits would get camped to death. [/sarcasm off] Pick a nice one in a busy area of highsec, deliberately spread the word around of it's location. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Agent Known	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Bloody Palm Edited by: Bloody Palm on 18/03/2009 19:14:15 People complaining about bubbles in w-space need to be better informed on game mechanics. The only useful purpose of the bubble is to keep people from warping straight to the wormhole exit when they see a ship/probes on scan. It does stop you from warping out when jumping in, however, that is solved fairly simply by jumping back out. Assuming you are coming from highsec into a wormhole: Jump into wormhole If the w-system is camped, approach wormhole and jump back out...You load into the system within jump range of the wormhole so there is no excuse to die when entering the wormhole except your own stupidity. Or insane lag. Sometimes I lag when jumping through gates, sometimes it works just fine. It's worse when there's a lot of ships on the other side, which CAN be the case with bubbles. And don't say it's because my computer sucks, because it can run EVE fine. However, other people might have serious lag issues if they jump into a bubble.

Exlegion Caldari New Light	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:21:00 - [21] Bubbles in W-space are fine. No need to change anything. Besides, in a few months it will probably be those same pirates camping the the W-space gates that will complain T3 is too expensive and only carebears can afford them. This step is needed in order to complete the full circle :P. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Frances Ducoir Gallente GK inc.	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Zex Maxwell Wspace belongs to No one, so anyone can use them for what they want, Both explores and pirates alike. Wspace belongs to the sleepers... so if you put up bubbles or towers there, sleepers should attack you / the tower / the bubbles... my opinion. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Denaris Aschanna Personally, I don't go anywhere risky without scouting it first in a Covops.. but surely, even from the pirates point of view, it would be more fun to let the ships into the system first, then attack them away from the wormhole! You get their prober first and possibly some others in their gang, and watch them panic and pray the entrance is still there as they warp back! Well any half-aware player will notice the probes and either safespot and cloak or (you guessed it) warp back to the wormhole and jump out. How are you gonna kill them without a camp there? The mechanics of w-space (randomized entrances, materialization within jump range, being able to jump even if agressed etc.) make camps pretty hard already. Its a big progress from usual gates so i'd say both sides give and take something. Why is that not ok? Personally i haven't camped a w-space system yet as i prefer to go solo with a force recon there but i can definitely see that its important to be able block an entrace if you are willing to put the effort in. Effort is much higher than for any normal gate and traffic will also be much lower (-> less targets). That is in no way the clear "win" for campers that its being presented as. Friend of mine just went carebearing there. 4-6hours of work (3-4 people) and over 2billion in salvage and stuff. No losses at all. I am sorry but in my (humble) opinion if some people reap in gigantic rewards some people (i.e. those that do not scout properly) have to take gigantic (and frustrating) losses. For me thats eve. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
B1FF	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:46:00 - [24] Problems I see: A worm hole gets more traffic than a gate? Isn't the first thing through almost always a cov ops? I can see dumping a bubble to ***** with people coming is but camping one seems like a effort in futility. I routinely get a system loading message hours after uptime when I log into a character who was logged out in W-space.
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:50:00 - [25] When you jump into W-space you are within jumping range of the wormhole immediately, so there is no slowboating it back to a gate. If you jump into a bubble on a wormhole and die, your a moron, you should have held your cloak for your session change to go away then jumped back through. Though, in hindsight; I really should put in some sort of spacer between my post and signature
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 When you jump into W-space you are within jumping range of the wormhole immediately, so there is no slowboating it back to a gate. If you jump into a bubble on a wormhole and die, your a moron, you should have held your cloak for your session change to go away then jumped back through. I'm sorry but your perfectly good logic has no place in a thread like this so gtfo plz. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 When you jump into W-space you are within jumping range of the wormhole immediately, so there is no slowboating it back to a gate. If you jump into a bubble on a wormhole and die, your a moron, you should have held your cloak for your session change to go away then jumped back through. I'm sorry but your perfectly good logic has no place in a thread like this so gtfo plz. Sorry You can make yourself immune to bubbles by deleting your system32 folder amidoinitrite? Though, in hindsight; I really should put in some sort of spacer between my post and signature
Usagi Toshiro Amarr Oklahoma Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Zex Maxwell First off, I was **ed that pirates were using WH to gank people inside them. they should be used for exploration. But your posted reminded me about something, Wspace belongs to No one, so anyone can use them for what they want, Both explores and pirates alike. Did it cross your mind that it might have been other explorers that didn't want to share the system?** This. That's part of EVE. Find resources to make ISK and protect them. If I was running an exploration operation I'd probably set up a bubble too. I've been exploring and have been fortunate not to run into one, but I can't say I'd fault the folks who got me. It's a risk passing through a wormhole. Does this fact of life (gank bubbles) suck? Yes. But it's there. I prefer to look at it as a challenge. One more thing to make wormholes that much more exciting.
Corwain	Posted - 2009.03.18 19:55:00 - [29] Howabout bubbles in W-Space go byebye and warp to 15km returns? Since wormholes move around there shouldn't be the same problem with auto piloting or insta creation. So people could prevent others from escaping W-Space but would have to work much harder to prevent people from entering. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.18 20:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Zex Maxwell First off, I was ****ed that pirates were using WH to gank people inside them. they should be used for exploration. But your posted reminded me about something, Wspace belongs to No one, so anyone can use them for what they want, Both explores and pirates alike. Carebear tears are delicious..... Stop, hammer time.



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