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The Escapist's 2009 "March Mayhem" - featuring also CCP

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MC Purge	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:11:00 - [31] I'm struggling a bit here. I can't tell if you are complaining that you got banned because you violated the terms of the EULA and you're now ****ed because you got banned for doing something that it clearly states you will get banned for. Or are you complaining that you didn't notice that CCP was still billing you for 5 months. OH I SEE. IT'S A STEALTH BRAG POST!! You're so rich that you didn't even notice the tiny drops of money CCP was taking from you for all that time because of your piles of money that you swim in!! You could have just said that at the the start bro.
Deep Ivory	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:17:00 - [32] Originally by: MC Purge I'm struggling a bit here. I can't tell if you are complaining that you got banned because you violated the terms of the EULA and you're now ****ed because you got banned for doing something that it clearly states you will get banned for. Or are you complaining that you didn't notice that CCP was still billing you for 5 months. OH I SEE. IT'S A STEALTH BRAG POST!! You're so rich that you didn't even notice the tiny drops of money CCP was taking from you for all that time because of your piles of money that you swim in!! You could have just said that at the the start bro. You got me, sorry (In all honesty I'm very bad about double checking my statements. Not saying I wasn't partially to blame for this one for catching it sooner.) The topic is essentially about the successfulness of this game, which is why I offered an anecdote as to a possible reason CCP doesn't enjoy a higher subscription base. I only complained about the severity of my punishment. The rest of my posts have been defending myself from self-righteous trolls. Still nobody has come to explain to me how it's fair that my friend's accounts were banned.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Deep Ivory Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Deep Ivory I think you should take a good, long look at that picture and consider reapplying it to your own post. Have you ever touched an Eve-Online account? What did it feel like? Could you sense the 0's and 1's via the electrical impulses or did it just fry your motherboard? When was the last time you touched a bank account? How about you give me yours, I'll tell you what it feels like. Because, you know, accounts in computers aren't real. It's not a matter of it existing or not, it's a matter of it being virtual, which is what you are disputing with the use of somebody elses text and picture of some ambiguous anime chick you'd undoubtedly like to bang. Quote: Are you seriously this stupid? Here, I'll do a little detective work for you, since you like to argue the meaning of words that you don't understand. Originally by: "Merriam-Webster Dictionary" 3: of, relating to, or being a hypothetical particle whose existence is inferred from indirect evidence <virtual photons> ù *compare real* 4: being on or simulated on a computer or computer network <print or virtual books> <a virtual keyboard>: as a: occurring or existing primarily online <a virtual library> <virtual shopping> b: of, relating to, or existing within a virtual reality <a virtual world> <a virtual tour> What do you do when you purchase time to activate an account? What are you buying? Time. Time, and access to the game with that time. Rental, to oversimplify. But you are essentially purchasing a service. A service that is NO different than paying your cable bill, or DSL for internet. Simply because there is no DIRECT, PHYSICAL representation of that service, does not invalidate that service. You used someone else's time. The account, the service, is completely REAL. It's money spent that is liable to terms and conditions of the company, true. But those service contracts you sign to participate in EvE online are very similar to the one's you sign to get internet access, or use a network provider, etc. Fact is, there's not as much regulation of gaming yet. Not near as much as there is for cable connections or phone networks. But the service, itself, is a very real thing. You used someone elses service, against the rules of the company that provided that service, and were punished for it. In the states, there are laws that would and could criminally punish you for splicing your cable over to you're neighbors house, or letting multiple users connect remotely through your phone service. Those laws clearly haven't extended themselves into online services yet. The difference is not whether you steal items in game. That's moot. It's the accessing of the account that got you banned. It's the blatent disregard for the service contract you agreed to (though admittedly, the definition of 'contract' isn't so clear with the EULA and TOS agreements, but it does seem to be legally valid in many countries and states). There is a very big difference between 'in-game' and the account. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Eve's Ernie	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:23:00 - [34] Edited by: Eve''s Ernie on 20/03/2009 03:24:30 Next round... if CCP beat EA Canada? CCP vs Valve. I've played Eve for 5 years now, love CCP... yet even I'm going to have to trump with Valve for that one.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Deep Ivory Originally by: MC Purge I'm struggling a bit here. I can't tell if you are complaining that you got banned because you violated the terms of the EULA and you're now **ed because you got banned for doing something that it clearly states you will get banned for. Or are you complaining that you didn't notice that CCP was still billing you for 5 months. OH I SEE. IT'S A STEALTH BRAG POST!! You're so rich that you didn't even notice the tiny drops of money CCP was taking from you for all that time because of your piles of money that you swim in!! You could have just said that at the the start bro. You got me, sorry (In all honesty I'm very bad about double checking my statements. Not saying I wasn't partially to blame for this one for catching it sooner.) The topic is essentially about the successfulness of this game, which is why I offered an anecdote as to a possible reason CCP doesn't enjoy a higher subscription base. I only complained about the severity of my punishment. The rest of my posts have been defending myself from self-righteous trolls. Still nobody has come to explain to me how it's fair that my friend's accounts were banned. You broke CCP's rules. You talked your friend (or lied to your friend, either way showing that you aren't much of a friend) to essentially help you break those rules. C'mon. Originally by:** 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:27:00 - [36] Originally by: Deep Ivory Red herring, ad hominem. 3: of, relating to, or being a hypothetical particle whose existence is inferred from indirect evidence <virtual photons> ù *compare real* 4: being on or simulated on a computer or computer network <print or virtual books> <a virtual keyboard>: as a: occurring or existing primarily online <a virtual library> <virtual shopping> b: of, relating to, or existing within a virtual reality <a virtual world> <a virtual tour> The physical existence of something has no bearing on whether it can have rights or crimes associated with it. Attempting to change the context of the argument shows that you either know you are wrong, or understand what is being discussed even less than suspected. Your bank account. The Easter Bunny. Neither are physical. One is real. The other isn't. Get it? By the way, I particularly like that you highlighted the comparison between real and virtual particles above, demonstrating that you do not understand that in that context both the real and virtual do actually exist. Thus you confirm that it is you who do not understand what is real and what is not, and that 'virtual' can refer to things which are, in a more general sense of the word, 'real'. Don't just shoot yourself in the foot, blow the whole leg off, eh? - DesuSigs
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Eve's Ernie Edited by: Eve''s Ernie on 20/03/2009 03:24:30 Next round... if CCP beat EA Canada? CCP vs Valve. I've played Eve for 5 years now, love CCP... yet even I'm going to have to trump with Valve for that one. Yeah ... kinda stacked odds there. Neither EA nor CCP weigh that highly. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Eve's Ernie Edited by: Eve''s Ernie on 20/03/2009 03:24:30 Next round... if CCP beat EA Canada? CCP vs Valve. I've played Eve for 5 years now, love CCP... yet even I'm going to have to trump with Valve for that one. Easy. Steam means Valve loses to everyone. - DesuSigs
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:41:00 - [39] Steam is good now though.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:44:00 - [40] Originally by: Asuka Smith Steam is good now though. Having to go online to play offline games will never be good. Paying more to get less will never be good. Games which magically disappear at the distributor's whim will never be good. Etc etc. - DesuSigs
Deep Ivory	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:56:00 - [41] Sigh. Ok, where to begin. Originally by: Crumplecorn The physical existence of something has no bearing on whether it can have rights or crimes associated with it. Attempting to change the context of the argument shows that you either know you are wrong, or understand what is being discussed even less than suspected. I'm not "changing the context of the argument". I'm simply defending myself from your random attack against my definition of what is virtual and what is not. You made a fool out of yourself by inadvertently claiming an account wasn't virtual, and now you are making a big argument over it, which somehow invalidates all my previous ones. /boggle Not to mention that there literally ARE no rights or crimes associated with it. Not because it's virtual, but because it's a game. Maybe I should have made that more clear, but it's obvious you are just arguing semantics here. Quote: By the way, I particularly like that you highlighted the comparison between real and virtual particles above, demonstrating that you do not understand that in that context both the real and virtual do actually exist. Yet another word you do not understand. "Compare" is the kicker here. As in, the opposite of. Hot, compare cold. Black, compare white. Virtual, compare real. Quote: Your bank account. The Easter Bunny. Neither are physical. One is real. The other isn't. Get it? A bank account is real in the way there is cold hard cash somewhere affirming its existence. An Eve-Online account could only be considered "real" in the way that there are servers somewhere affirming its existence. These servers, however, could just as easily be used to store kiddie ** as to your virtual account. Quote: Thus you confirm that it is you who do not understand what is real and what is not, and that 'virtual' can refer to things which are, in a more general sense of the word, 'real'. Don't just shoot yourself in the foot, blow the whole leg off, eh? Thus you confirm that you hold zero capacity to argue but instead can only reply with clichTd insults. See, I can do it too! Originally by:** "Ruze Ahkor'Murkon" What do you do when you purchase time to activate an account? What are you buying?[...] Your entire argument is invalidated by the fact that I can quite legally go to my neighbors house (with his permission), turn on his TV, and watch the premium cable channels he has paid for. Originally by: "Ruze Ahkor'Murkon" You broke CCP's rules. You talked your friend (or lied to your friend, either way showing that you aren't much of a friend) to essentially help you break those rules. C'mon. He didn't break any rules.
Eraza Gallente Fuzzyness Enterprizes	Posted - 2009.03.20 03:58:00 - [42] actually steam has considerably less copy protection then most cd's/dvd's you can find in stores, and offline mode works for over 95% of games there(seriously, i own over 200 games on steam) offline mode however, is not automatic, and you might need to actually read some menus and yes, steam was total **** in the beginning, it is however not anymore still, i think ccp is doomed with the next one, even if all eve players voted, and thought eve was loads better then the half life series, i'm expecting to see at least 80% of the voters not even know who ccp are also the guy that got banned, mabey you should read the EULA :) even if you are too slow to understand that there is a huge difference between hijacking someones account, regardless of how you got the login, and fooling him ingame, then i'm pretty sure the EULA makes it clear that that's just going to get you an unavoidable ban --- return the mines!
Eraza Gallente Fuzzyness Enterprizes	Posted - 2009.03.20 04:04:00 - [43] oh, and on the friend that got banned along with you, if he knew the items were stolen by account, and not ingame, then he should have known that would get him banned, if he really didnt know, that completely sucks.. --- return the mines!
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt	Posted - 2009.03.20 04:05:00 - [44] To the guy who will not shut up about the injustices of him being banned and his friend... You deserved it. Shut up. Seriously, you are killing what could be a great thread with your pointless *****ing and moaning about how a EULA violation should result in the explicitly stated actions written out in the EULA.
Eraza Gallente Fuzzyness Enterprizes	Posted - 2009.03.20 04:07:00 - [45] on a side note, on the "if you whine enough they'll change it" sig, the AUTOPILOT, is one such feature, which wasnt in ccp's orginal plan, not even the route plotter was in that plan... man i remember how much that changed, to be able to travel in eve, without a massive .jpg route map of eve... oof.. how many times i got lost just because i thought i remembered the way.. :P --- return the mines!
Deep Ivory	Posted - 2009.03.20 04:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Asuka Smith To the guy who will not shut up about the injustices of him being banned and his friend... You deserved it. Shut up. Seriously, you are killing what could be a great thread with your pointless ***ing and moaning about how a EULA violation should result in the explicitly stated actions written out in the EULA. Ok. You're right. Continue discussing the close race between EA Canada and CCP. This sure is going places. I better not take up any more valuable real estate here. I sincerely apologize. As far as what's explicitly stated in the EULA, neither "ban" nor "closure" is explicitly stated. Would be nice if people who expected that every person read every part of the EULA before clicking accept, you know, actually** read every word of the EULA before complaining. Probably asking too much, there.
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt	Posted - 2009.03.20 04:46:00 - [47] Okay I guess "severe action" counted as explicit in my mind. Two weeks of a ban is not a severe action.
Markho Grahdier	Posted - 2009.03.20 04:47:00 - [48] As a regular porter (3500 and going) I have to say that threads involving competitions bring out the fanboys. If you take a look at the other threads on the site you'll find we are a fairly decent sort. I voted ccp anyway
Deep Ivory	Posted - 2009.03.20 04:52:00 - [49] Originally by: Asuka Smith Okay I guess "severe action" counted as explicit in my mind. Two weeks of a ban is not a severe action. Guess it's a good thing "severe" isn't in the EULA either.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 05:07:00 - [50] Originally by: Deep Ivory Originally by: Asuka Smith Okay I guess "severe action" counted as explicit in my mind. Two weeks of a ban is not a severe action. Guess it's a good thing "severe" isn't in the EULA either. As I'm sure you know, this is the rule you broke: Quote: B. Passwords and Names You will be asked to select a password during the registration process ("Password"). You may not disclose your Password to anyone or allow anyone to use your Password to access the System or play EVE. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password. You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the password of anyone else. You are responsible for remembering your Account information and Password. You will be assigned a login name and a character name during the registration and character creation process. You may not allow anyone to use your login name or character name to access the System or play EVE. No player may use the character name of another player to impersonate or falsely represent his or her identity. You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the login name or character name of anyone else. And this, of course, is where you were punished: Quote: B. By CCP for Breach or Misconduct i. Suspension of Account Without limiting CCP's rights or remedies, CCP may immediately, and without notice, discontinue or suspend access to the System through your Account, and any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the discontinued or suspended Account, in the event of (i) a breach of the EULA (including the Rules of Conduct) by you or any user under your Account; or (ii) unauthorized access to the System or use of the Game by you or any user under your Account. And again, listed here: Quote: ii. Termination of EULA CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) you fail to pay the subscription fee when due; (ii) CCP is unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide; (iii) you or anyone using any of your Accounts materially breaches the EULA, makes any unauthorized use of the System or Software, or infringes the rights of CCP or any third party; or (iv) CCP becomes aware of game play, chat or player activity under your Account that is, in CCP's discretion, inappropriate or in violation of the Rules of Conduct. Such termination shall be effective upon notice transmitted via electronic mail, or any other means reasonably calculated to reach you. And in relation to the point that you may see THIS account banned, there's this: Quote: CCP reserves the right to terminate any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the closed Account. Termination by CCP under this section shall be without prejudice to or waiver of any and all of CCP's other rights or remedies, all of which are expressly reserved, survive termination, and are cumulative. You will not receive a refund of prepaid subscription fees for a termination pursuant to this section. All this is listed in the EULA. For a quick read, check under 'EvE Support', 'Game Policies' and 'EULA' on the left hand side. That's if you don't know, which I'm sure you're well aware. But you've admitted you knew you broke the rules. So you thought the punishment for a direct violation of the EULA (which is largely used to address out-of-game things like licensing rights, isk/item sellers, dislaimers, and legal issues with kids logging into EvE). Simply clarifying that 'know your EULA' works both ways. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 05:10:00 - [51] Forgive me for continuing on this, but I just remembered that there is also a clearly listed 'Ban Policy', which remarkably makes sure to include this: Quote: 2. HACKING An immediate permanent ban of an account may result from attempting to or successfully: * a. Interfering with the performance of the EVE Online servers or web site. b.Defrauding another player of his account through use of misinformation or impersonating an EVE Online official. NOTE: No employee of CCP or one of its authorized representatives will ever ask for your password. Should someone claiming to be a CCP associate request your password, donÆt give it. Instead, notify the support team immediately by sending an in-game petition or by using the ôAsk a questionö form on our support website. Please retain all related documentation in the event it is needed during a possible investigation. * e. Obtaining unauthorized access to anotherÆs EVE Online account or account information. Funny, though. I kept trying to avoid calling what you did 'hacking his account'. But according to CCP, that's exactly what you did. Wierd, but whatever. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2009.03.20 05:56:00 - [52] Cleaned. Off-topic posts removed. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email

Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.03.20 06:15:00 - [53] So the escapist stole a fun idea from other websites and made it as boring as they could? Good lord, lol @ at them and lol @ anyone who thinks this means anything to anyone. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.20 06:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Vaal Erit So the escapist stole a fun idea from other websites and made it as boring as they could? Don't forget it's at least its second year _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.20 10:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Asuka Smith EA is actually turning out to be pretty legitimate lately. RA3 has received significant post-release support (and is a fun game), and Mirror's Edge was groundbreaking. EA has learned that releasing buggy games and not supporting them will lead to short-term profits but after a couple years no one will touch your products. CCP is going to learn that lesson eventually and I am sure if it was not for the developer corruption scandal and the constant bugs this game would have a million subscribers by now. One corrupt developer during the entire life of EVE is pretty damn good. Most other companies wouldn't say anything and quietly ask the dev to go. CCP went to the community, set up an internal investigation team to prevent further corruption, and disclosed information about the event. Mirror's Edge had good ideas about gameplay, but the writing was horribly childish, and Ubisoft has already made better parkour mechanics (Prince of Persia). EA has regularly abandoned support for their games without any regard to how many players are still actively playing, I still have no faith in them since they abandoned E&B, and Spore was a complete disaster. CCP on the other hand has kept expanding and supporting a game for 6 years after it went gold. EVE is niche game and it shows by the population, but CCP has done an amazing job with it, and more content is still on the way. I'm looking forward to what they will do with a more mainstream game like WoD. "The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
Makenshi Drakonnen Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.03.20 11:17:00 - [56] Bear in mind many of the escapists community's only experience of CCP is Yahtzee's extremely poor review of EVE online whereas EA are much better known
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.20 11:23:00 - [57] CCP touts nearly 300k subscribers. Even assuming only 75% are individual subscribers, and that a mere 10% read the forums at all, that's still over 20k people that could sign up and vote for CCP/EVE if they wanted to. I see less than 1k votes for CCP there right now. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.20 11:26:00 - [58] Omg, so many CCP haters, down with ****ty EA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.20 11:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Akita T sign up And therein lies the problem. - DesuSigs
Doomed Predator The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.20 11:37:00 - [60] Originally by: Asuka Smith EA is actually turning out to be pretty legitimate lately. RA3 has received significant post-release support (and is a fun game), and Mirror's Edge was groundbreaking. EA has learned that releasing buggy games and not supporting them will lead to short-term profits but after a couple years no one will touch your products. CCP is going to learn that lesson eventually and I am sure if it was not for the developer corruption scandal and the constant bugs this game would have a million subscribers by now. RA3 was totaly messed up,I suggest you play a mission or 2 from Ra2 and see what it should have been like. And looks like people will never get over that damn incident years back even when the dev left,the alliance destroyed(well, spy hit the FU button) and greater measures to insure it doesn't happen again. CCP is leading by 60ish votes,go CCP The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again

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