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vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:03:00 - [1] Edited by: vextorious on 20/03/2009 19:03:17 PREFACE: The speed nerf was needed. I didn't nano fit my vagas anyway. But, the ramifications of the nerf have left mini's with no viable option for PVP. The vaga was already the only GOOD ship we had, and now its worthless. Short of the Seliphner, which isnt very good as commmand ships go, I have nothing left worth flying. Our ships all do less dps with less tank, and now the advantage of speed has been reduced to a non factor. So now I sit and wait for Amarr skills to train. Ive paid for this game for 3 years and now I find my self back at square one. Give minis some speed back. Keep the mods the same, just give the speed you promised me when I created my toon.
Lurkios	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:05:00 - [2] I like you slow, easier to hit.
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:06:00 - [3] Edited by: vextorious on 20/03/2009 19:08:57 Originally by: Lurkios I like you slow, easier to hit. Then give me the ability to fit as much tank as everyone else. Every race has an advantage. They took mine away and didnt compensate us in any way. What is the racial advantage of the Minmatar now?
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:08:00 - [4] Originally by: vextorious Originally by: Lurkios I like you slow, easier to hit. Then give me the ability to fit as much tank as everyone else. Are Minnie ships not able to fit plates? Oh, they are? Then STFU and adapt. Unless you REALLY want to start a whine fest thread. Unless this is a clever troll, in which case 8/10. (-2 for appearing slightly trollish.) Fix the Wardec System! Upgrade the Probing System!
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:11:00 - [5] Every race is supposed to have an advantage. They took ours away. No mod can compensate for the lower pg,cpu, and base shield/armor of the minimatar ships. Please dont comment one what you dont know about.
N'tek alar	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:11:00 - [6] Originally by: vextorious Edited by: vextorious on 20/03/2009 19:03:17 I didn't nano fit my vagas anyway. Quote: The vaga was the only GOOD ship we had, and now its worthless. So... the nano nerf made your non-nanoed vaga useless? Make sense you does not!
Spurty Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:14:00 - [7] 3 years and you only have minmatar skills? What have you been doing with the other 2.5 years of training ? Yah, Minmatar ships kinda feel wrong, only advantage they have is fast align now Originally by: Butter Dog I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
Lurkios	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:17:00 - [8] Originally by: vextorious Every race is supposed to have an advantage. Your not supposed to have an advantage, your SUPPOSED to be in my holds, fueling my furnaces! Don't go feeling all entitled just because you managed to make off with half a role of duct tape and some scaffolding you call a ship.
Jalif Minmatar Black Sinisters	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:17:00 - [9] Welcome in my world. \|Black Sinisters\|
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:18:00 - [10] Originally by: N'tek alar Originally by: vextorious Edited by: vextorious on 20/03/2009 19:03:17 I didn't nano fit my vagas anyway. Quote: The vaga was the only GOOD ship we had, and now its worthless. So... the nano nerf made your non-nanoed vaga useless? Make sense you does not! If you had flown one you would know that fitting 3 gyros, a dcu, and sheild rigs made for a VERY tough little ship that still did 550+ dps with drones with 60-70 resist across the board. Now they are half as fast and get chewed up. I dont really care about the loss of speed. But they took our racial bonus away in a sense and didnt comensate us in another way.

Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:21:00 - [11] If you've played the game for 3 years, then you should have diversified more. You should also KNOW that the FOTM/Best Race/Best ships/Best weapons change on a yearly basis. I feel for you. On one of my alts, I played in a vagabond for over 2 years(Remember the days when a good Vaga fit cost 350Mil per..) But I also have an Amarr Char that was gimped for the first half of his life, and a gal char that I just never used much due to my nice Minnie char'. Now I use my Amarr more then anything. Char classes come and go in MMO's. You can NOT specialize long term. This is a basic tenant of all MMO's. SIG: FULL WINDOWS CLIENT 1.9gig
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:21:00 - [12] Edited by: Clair Bear on 20/03/2009 19:23:59 Um. The Rupture is still a very, very nice cruiser. Hurricane isn't a complete piece of crap either. The Rifter is arguably tied with the Punisher as the #1 t1 frigate. Now, if your point is "minnie t2 and capital ships are complete ass across the board" you might have people agreeing with you. But there are still the Sabre and Broadsword as counterarguments...
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Spurty 3 years and you only have minmatar skills? What have you been doing with the other 2.5 years of training ? Yah, Minmatar ships kinda feel wrong, only advantage they have is fast align now Minis have to train every weapon skill, gunnery, missle and drones, I have 18m sp in just those 3.
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:25:00 - [14] Edited by: vextorious on 20/03/2009 19:26:22 Originally by: Clair Bear Um. The Rupture is still a very, very nice cruiser. Hurricane isn't a complete piece of crap either. The Rifter is arguably tied with the Punisher as the #1 t1 frigate. Now, if your point is "minnie t2 ships are complete ass across the board" you might have people agreeing with you. But there are still the Sabre and Broadsword as counterarguments... Yea, good points. And Im not far away from being effective in ANY ship in the game to be honest. I already have 3 frigate 5s and 2 cruisers at 4, so I have been diversifing. Its just annoying that CCP didnt realize they minimatar would have no real advantage left. Its a wasted race now. Any new mini players less then a couple months old really should just start over.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:30:00 - [15] So then you can easily crosstrain. The vagabond is still a good hac. While not very high in the damage department (at 20km range), it is now without doubt the fastest hac. Before nano nerf everyone and their mother were going right past your vaga in a random hac or recon. After nano nerf the vaga is without doubt the fastest cruiser. Scimitar does its role fine. Not really much fan of the minnie recons, allthough they also have their uses. Muninn now actually is somewhat usefull in sniper hac gangs, allthough it could use a bit more survivability. Hurricane is great battlecruiser, and minnie cruisers arent worse than others. Wolf is decent enough too, and imo stilleto is best interceptor for what interceptors are supposed to do, tackling (4 mids). At the BS and larger department minnie is sad, but that was allready the case before nano nerf. Probably only helped them being a bit less useless (the tempest especially). --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Azirapheal Amarr Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:33:00 - [16] Originally by: vextorious Every race is supposed to have an advantage. i think you misread the box. every race has characteristics. not necesarilly advantages. the uber in your face pwn of the gallente... that have to fit an armor tank that slows them down minnie have capless weapons and no real dependance one one tank or another... you dont see many maelstroms attempting to nanotank amarr are actually pretty decent all rounders. limited mids makes soloing in them awkward and they can have obscene armor tanks. unfortunately their guns suck cap like a nana sucks eggs. as does their tank. it usually takes ship skills V weapons V all cap skills V for amarr to become the hard bastards you think they are. non t2 lasers are akin to ****ing into a nuclear reactor in terms of near pointlessness. and em/therm is the hardest resists to break unless you shield tank :D (sorry, amarr were my first love and i didnt really start realising their potential till i hit approx 20/m in support and gunnery skills, i preferred minmatar till then) i dont like caldari much missiles dont miss unless you outrun them. so they dont really have to think about transversal and positioning much, they can pretty much with the right setups just rely on ubar passive tanks and decent burst dmg.. you just have to take one look at how rapidly nighthawks have gone in short supply now that w-space is around.. capless and rock solid. CCP only really tend to nerf things when they become massively overused. the stacking penalty on weapons mods and similar items was introduced when everyone and their nana flew an armageddon with 7 heatsink 2's in low. can you say 3kdps? they pretty much could. and then speed. speed became the ultimate tank we all trained for. because you cant hit a close orbiter going at speed with turrets. they are immune. as testament to this my corpmates and i went out to 0.0 with snaked crows and a command ship in the back. came back with all 6 25kms crows intact and alot of angry people spamming petitions about our griefing tactics. speed, like the pwngeddon, and battleship drones in cruisers became used by everyone, if its a no brainer choice it gets nerfed so you need to think about things more. the blackbird will probably be next once they realise how they are prevalant to the exclusion of all else, its how it goes. besides, ive seen some sick as fudge minnie ships rolling round lately, really testing my abilities to yarr. maybe your just failing to adapt? every race is supposed to have an advantage... so where is amarrs beyond being the rock thats never primaried. where is caldaris ability to solo without nerfing tank. where is gallentes ability to not be rather homosexual? i like minnis, but speed became godmode. hence the nerf. ive seen alot of nasty nasty hurricane setups. think outside the box and use your noodle and some duck tape :D
SadisticSavior Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:34:00 - [17] Edited by: SadisticSavior on 20/03/2009 19:34:07 Quote: Every race has an advantage. I always thought the Minmatar advantage was versatility. Since I started playing, I have always heard the Minmatar described as the jack of all trades race. "Jack of all trades" is followed by "Master of none", right? (Reunification is Coming)
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:37:00 - [18] Originally by: vextorious Every race is supposed to have an advantage. They took ours away. No mod can compensate for the lower pg,cpu, and base shield/armor of the minimatar ships. Please dont comment one what you dont know about. Welcome to the Gallente EvE experience. Nos nerf: Kiss the best PVP ship the Gallente had, the "Nos-Domi" goodbye. Drone bandwidth nerf: Kiss the Myrmidon and Vexor goodbye as viable PVP ships. Not even all that good for Missions anymore either. (Do you EVER see anyone flying them outside mission hubs? Yeah, me neither.) Dampeners nerf: Kiss the Celestis and Lachesis goodbye. The poor pitiable Keres was stillborn, being created after the nerf. Speed Nerf: Kiss the usefulness of Blasters goodbye. Oh, and the Thorax and Phobos, since they also depended on speed. So PLEASE do not come on here and whine about the speed nerf until you have had to go through what Gallente players have been put through the past 2 years by the nerfbat wielding Devs. Also: nearly 3 years playing and you haven't crosstrained ANY other races yet? Seriously? Wow. Fail. Fix the Wardec System! Upgrade the Probing System!
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Furb Killer So then you can easily crosstrain. The vagabond is still a good hac. While not very high in the damage department (at 20km range), it is now without doubt the fastest hac. Before nano nerf everyone and their mother were going right past your vaga in a random hac or recon. After nano nerf the vaga is without doubt the fastest cruiser. Scimitar does its role fine. Not really much fan of the minnie recons, allthough they also have their uses. Muninn now actually is somewhat usefull in sniper hac gangs, allthough it could use a bit more survivability. Hurricane is great battlecruiser, and minnie cruisers arent worse than others. Wolf is decent enough too, and imo stilleto is best interceptor for what interceptors are supposed to do, tackling (4 mids). At the BS and larger department minnie is sad, but that was allready the case before nano nerf. Probably only helped them being a bit less useless (the tempest especially). Its the lack of a good BS that really makes us suck now. Before, you had the vaga which was like bringing a BS to the fight with my setup. Now their is nothing that can fit both damage and a good tank.
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:43:00 - [20] Originally by: SadisticSavior Edited by: SadisticSavior on 20/03/2009 19:34:07 Quote: Every race has an advantage. I always thought the Minmatar advantage was versatility. Since I started playing, I have always heard the Minmatar described as the jack of all trades race. "Jack of all trades" is followed by "Master of none", right? Yea, good points as well.

vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: vextorious Every race is supposed to have an advantage. They took ours away. No mod can compensate for the lower pg,cpu, and base shield/armor of the minimatar ships. Please dont comment one what you dont know about. Welcome to the Gallente EvE experience. Nos nerf: Kiss the best PVP ship the Gallente had, the "Nos-Domi" goodbye. Drone bandwidth nerf: Kiss the Myrmidon and Vexor goodbye as viable PVP ships. Not even all that good for Missions anymore either. (Do you EVER see anyone flying them outside mission hubs? Yeah, me neither.) Dampeners nerf: Kiss the Celestis and Lachesis goodbye. The poor pitiable Keres was stillborn, being created after the nerf. Speed Nerf: Kiss the usefulness of Blasters goodbye. Oh, and the Thorax and Phobos, since they also depended on speed. So PLEASE do not come on here and whine about the speed nerf until you have had to go through what Gallente players have been put through the past 2 years by the nerfbat wielding Devs. Also: nearly 3 years playing and you haven't crosstrained ANY other races yet? Seriously? Wow. Fail. My new bio will read "At least Im not Galente"
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:43:00 - [22] Originally by: vextorious No mod can compensate for the lower pg,cpu, and base shield/armor of the minimatar ships. I don't think 2nd highest PG/CPU would count as lowest. Minmatar generally have very generous fittings. Vagabond has 2nd most PG/CPU of that tier of HAC and the Sleipner has over double the PG of the Nighthawk, again placing 2nd on both. It's not like Autocannons are hard to fit either. - Contagious -
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:44:00 - [23] Originally by: vextorious Edited by: vextorious on 20/03/2009 19:03:17 PREFACE: The speed nerf was needed. I didn't nano fit my vagas anyway. But, the ramifications of the nerf have left mini's with no viable option for PVP. The vaga was already the only GOOD ship we had, and now its worthless. Short of the Seliphner, which isnt very good as commmand ships go, I have nothing left worth flying. Our ships all do less dps with less tank, and now the advantage of speed has been reduced to a non factor. So now I sit and wait for Amarr skills to train. Ive paid for this game for 3 years and now I find my self back at square one. Give minis some speed back. Keep the mods the same, just give the speed you promised me when I created my toon. WTF are you talking about? My vagabond is still freakin' awesome. The skill investment is still steep as hell, but I love it still. I won't be catching interceptors with an overloaded MWD anymore, but I'm still one of the fastest things around with OMGNOTTHEFACE DPS if I get up close & personal.
vextorious No Trademark	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: vextorious Every race is supposed to have an advantage. They took ours away. No mod can compensate for the lower pg,cpu, and base shield/armor of the minimatar ships. Please dont comment one what you dont know about. Welcome to the Gallente EvE experience. Nos nerf: Kiss the best PVP ship the Gallente had, the "Nos-Domi" goodbye. Drone bandwidth nerf: Kiss the Myrmidon and Vexor goodbye as viable PVP ships. Not even all that good for Missions anymore either. (Do you EVER see anyone flying them outside mission hubs? Yeah, me neither.) Dampeners nerf: Kiss the Celestis and Lachesis goodbye. The poor pitiable Keres was stillborn, being created after the nerf. Speed Nerf: Kiss the usefulness of Blasters goodbye. Oh, and the Thorax and Phobos, since they also depended on speed. So PLEASE do not come on here and whine about the speed nerf until you have had to go through what Gallente players have been put through the past 2 years by the nerfbat wielding Devs. Also: nearly 3 years playing and you haven't crosstrained ANY other races yet? Seriously? Wow. Fail. Read again, I have been xtraining for 6 months. I just miss my vaga and I dont have amarr bs to 5 yet...
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Bish Ounen Nos nerf: Kiss the best PVP ship the Gallente had, the "Nos-Domi" goodbye. My NOS-domi is still alive and well. I dunno wtf you're talking about. Originally by: Bish Ounen Drone bandwidth nerf: Kiss the Myrmidon and Vexor goodbye as viable PVP ships. Not even all that good for Missions anymore either. (Do you EVER see anyone flying them outside mission hubs? Yeah, me neither.) Can't really argue here. Originally by: Bish Ounen Dampeners nerf: Kiss the Celestis and Lachesis goodbye. The poor pitiable Keres was stillborn, being created after the nerf. or here... Originally by: Bish Ounen Speed Nerf: Kiss the usefulness of Blasters goodbye. Oh, and the Thorax and Phobos, since they also depended on speed. Sort of. The ECM drone rax is a thing to be feared. Originally by: Bish Ounen So PLEASE do not come on here and whine about the speed nerf until you have had to go through what Gallente players have been put through the past 2 years by the nerfbat wielding Devs. In closing I can't really disagree. But then I'm a Minmatar HAC & recon, gallente interceptor & battleship, amarr recon (and eventually caldari carrier & gallente dreadnought) flying Caldari-by-birth pilot. The lesson here is, train for ships you want to fly. Not races. After all, you can't take all your race's ships into a fight at once by yourself. Originally by: Bish Ounen Also: nearly 3 years playing and you haven't crosstrained ANY other races yet? Seriously? Wow. Fail. Agreed. First I trained drones. Then missiles. Then autocannons. Then more missiles. Then more drones. Then HACs & recons. Then blasters. Then artillery. Then rails. And now? More rails, followed by capitals.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Bish Ounen <gallente nerfs enumerated> You forgot drone specialization being of zero value for the new expansion as well. While not strictly a nerf, it's another "lol train another race you noob" finger from the devs. So, does ORE hulls count as gallente since hulks require gallente components and skills to manufacture? If so, I'm still specialized in only one race and surviving. Blastheron -> hulk and doing fine!
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:56:00 - [27] Originally by: vextorious Read again, I have been xtraining for 6 months. I just miss my vaga and I dont have amarr bs to 5 yet... Fair enough. My apologies. I think I may actually start on Amarr xtrain soon. I already xtrained on Caldari ships. Once I'm done with a few specalties I'm working on I may look into it. Besides, every once in a while I wanna just Pimp it when I fly. Amarr Blingmobiles are the most Pimped out rides the universe. Fix the Wardec System! Upgrade the Probing System!
Golan Cinquanteneuf Carthage Industries	Posted - 2009.03.20 19:58:00 - [28] Originally by: vextorious What is the racial advantage of the Minmatar now? Shades on the Brutor avatars. me wants.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.03.20 20:04:00 - [29] Edited by: Trader20 on 20/03/2009 20:04:14 Originally by: Spurty 3 years and you only have minmatar skills? What have you been doing with the other 2.5 years of training ? Yah, Minmatar ships kinda feel wrong, only advantage they have is fast align now I'm guessing he did alot of nano gang, good luck wit that.......
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.20 20:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Clair Bear Originally by: Bish Ounen <gallente nerfs enumerated> You forgot drone specialization being of zero value for the new expansion as well. While not strictly a nerf, it's another "lol train another race you noob" finger from the devs. Tell me about it! My Char started out Drone specialized. Nice for about a year. then, just as I was getting into PVP more heavily and LOVING my Myrm-pwnmobile when the drone nerf came along and POOF! No more Pwnage for me. Then I decided that E-War would be a good choice, and trained up Dampener skills. Yeah, we all know what happened next. I swear, if I specialized in HAULING CCP would nerf cargo ships within the week! Fix the Wardec System! Upgrade the Probing System!



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