Originally by: Johann Callasan

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'Course, there were copyright issues too - a bot is not the same as a character, after all. But the precedent is there, now - that EULAS can be and are binding contracts.

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Originally by: Imertu Solientai

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WOW, the number of bitter cheaters in this thread is epic. I guess you all support ISK buying too, 'cause that ISK was already in the game too'? How about account hacking, 'cause the account only changed hands and nothing in game changed'?

Yeah, your argument isn't very good is it?

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Originally by: Asuka Smith

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Edited by: Asuka Smith on 21/03/2009 13:46:48
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 21/03/2009 13:46:32

Originally by: Johann Callasan

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'Course, there were copyright issues too - a bot is not the same as a character, after all. But the precedent is there, now - that EULAS can be and are binding contracts.

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It depends on the language in the EULA, I specified videogame EULAs for a reason because the fact that they claim to own what I am paying for and which I would say that *I* own is pretty shady and I really doubt that that would hold up. However if the EULA uses language that is enforceable then they are in the case of Vivendi on very stable ground. Also the fact that the EULA is digital and not signed, I could argue that the version that I read was different than the one that they claim I ticked the box to and the could NEVER prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Originally by: Abrazzar

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People get confused when they erroneously belief they actually own anything. You pay for access to a theme park and if you violate the house rules you'll get thrown out. It's so easy and simple, people either must be really stupid to get confused or are simply trolling. Probably both.

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

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Originally by: Abrazzar

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You're paying for a service, not property. You rent toys, you don't buy them. In that respect the EULA is solid as it merely emphasizes on the kind of agreement that is agreed on.

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Originally by: Asuka Smith

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Ghost training does not cost CCP money. If you train a skill that takes two months, and you only pay for one month, that is $15 you just paid to play for one month and then the month that you are ghost training you are doing exactly that YOU ARE NOT LOGGED ON USING ANNNNYYYYY server resources besides the SP +1 +2 +3 going on on the separate skills server. I doubt that the SP +1 +2 +3 is using more than two or three pennies when everyone is aggregated.

In fact, character farming would be a better form of macro farming than mining for the playerbase, but the same/worse for CCP. That is why they are much better at stopping character sales than macro miners (you are right, they are all about the money).

Macro-miners consume server resources, but they generally all cluster together so only other macro miners have to deal with the lag (or idiot mission runners who cannot handle leaving Motsu, pro-tip try Eitu). However they pay every month, and I assume that probably like 10-25% of the subscription fee is profit so it is better to get two months from a macro miner and deal with the server usage than one month from a character farmer and not have any server usage. Macro-miners hurt players by lagging up mission hubs, hogging ice belts, ruining high-sec mining, and in the case of the macro-missioners adding in huge inflation.

Character farmers however cost CCP next to nothing, give CCP substantially more than they take, do not create any new ISK for inflation, do not lag the servers, and in the end the character winds up in the hands of a newb who will grow to be whatever he wants in this great world, just 20m SP faster or however much. This is BY FAR the preferred method if we had to choose (I would prefer neither and only have personal sales be allowed but it is impossible to discriminate effectively).

This is why I am so mad at the OP and trolling this thread so hard, because CCP is obligated to ban everyone they find breaking any rules because if they gave everyone a chance to speak their case they would never get anything done. That is where the individual comes in, when he sees some college kid or some unemployed sob story selling his character 'cus he needs the cash on e-bay he should look the other way because it is the right thing to do and he would want the same courtesy. It is a victimless action and in the end we get to keep a pilot in EVE for epic pew pew and CCP gets to keep their $15 from a new CC#.

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Originally by: Asuka Smith

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Edited by: Asuka Smith on 21/03/2009 12:31:11
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 21/03/2009 12:29:54
I doubt Sidius buys isk, this sort of tattle-tale mentality where everyone runs to mommy whenever something they do not like happens gets on my nerves too. I support reporting isk sellers/buyers because that directly effects me and screws up the economy. But selling a character does not change the game for me or anyone. That character existed before, would have continued to exist anyways. The only difference is who is playing him now, and the only reason to report him is because you are a sadist. When you get tired of the game why not let someone else have a go at it with your character, and why not get your subscription fees back if you can. My character is MINE, whether the EULA says that or the courts agree in my heart I know that my character is MY character. (And I have a feeling that based on that Everquest case from a while back that the same suit would work vs. CCP or any other MMO company that tried to ban your character, so I think the courts actually do agree with me and anyone else who supports characters being an asset owned by the individual player and not the company that allowed their creation)

Or maybe he quit and tried to sell his account because the economy is bad, he lost his job, and his kids are hungry. Thanks to the OP this guy who just wanted to feed his kids has to explain to them that some self-righteous ***** with an ego trip felt that despite having nothing personally at stake to lose or gain by taking food out of their mouths he did it for the hell of it and that that is just how people are. Now his kids are going to grow up hungry with nothing but hatred for their fellow man in their hearts, knowing the cruelty that a certain primate is prone to. This malice will grow and grow until eventually in their early 20's something sends one or both children over the edge, and they go on a homicidal shooting spree killing a pregnant mother in front of her husband and a six year old girl buying a cone of ice cream on her birthday. The twins are then sent to a mental institution on the taxpayer dime where they receive $120,000 a year in treatment each for the rest of their lives. All thanks to the OP who it would not have effected either way had the account been sold or not.

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Originally by: Jenny Twotone

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OP is a self serving socialist scumbag. There really is nothing more to say. They are better than the rest of us plebians, and so can decide for us what we should and should not do, since she is obviously morally superior to us all.

go cry yourself to sleep again tonight.

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Originally by: Qwyp

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haha too bad I see it already relisted on ebay

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Originally by: Abrazzar

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So what happens is some dude paying 600 bucks for a character that will get banned as soon as it gets transfered. As if CCP are too stupid to check ebay themselves.

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Originally by: Daelorn

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Originally by: Abrazzar

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So what happens is some dude paying 600 bucks for a character that will get banned as soon as it gets transfered. As if CCP are too stupid to check ebay themselves.

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Doubt that, I know plenty of eBayed chars that are still playing...

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Originally by: Jana Clant

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Originally by: Asuka Smith

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Edited by: Asuka Smith on 21/03/2009 12:31:11
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 21/03/2009 12:29:54
I doubt Sidius buys isk, this sort of tattle-tale mentality where everyone runs to mommy whenever something they do not like happens gets on my nerves too. I support reporting isk sellers/buyers because that directly effects me and screws up the economy. But selling a character does not change the game for me or anyone. That character existed before, would have continued to exist anyways. The only difference is who is playing him now, and the only reason to report him is because you are a sadist. When you get tired of the game why not let someone else have a go at it with your character, and why not get your subscription fees back if you can. My character is MINE, whether the EULA says that or the courts agree in my heart I know that my character is MY character. (And I have a feeling that based on that Everquest case from a while back that the same suit would work vs. CCP or any other MMO company that tried to ban your character, so I think the courts actually do agree with me and anyone else who supports characters being an asset owned by the individual player and not the company that allowed their creation)

Or maybe he quit and tried to sell his account because the economy is bad, he lost his job, and his kids are hungry. Thanks to the OP this guy who just wanted to feed his kids has to explain to them that some self-righteous ***** with an ego trip felt that despite having nothing personally at stake to lose or gain by taking food out of their mouths he did it for the hell of it and that that is just how people are. Now his kids are going to grow up hungry with nothing but hatred for their fellow man in their hearts, knowing the cruelty that a certain primate is prone to. This malice will grow and grow until eventually in their early 20's something sends one or both children over the edge, and they go on a homicidal shooting spree killing a pregnant mother in front of her husband and a six year old girl buying a cone of ice cream on her birthday. The twins are then sent to a mental institution on the taxpayer dime where they receive $120,000 a year in treatment each for the rest of their lives. All thanks to the OP who it would not have effected either way had the account been sold or not.

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Great tale you got there.

Regardless, selling characters for RL money is clearly stated as against the EULA.
According to your logic, just because someone needs to feed his family, it would be okay to commit an illegal action, say, rob a bank?

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Originally by: CCP Greyscale

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*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*

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Originally by: Aldarica

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Will any other theme park visitor, or the their owners, be harmed in any way?

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Originally by: CCP Greyscale

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*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Aldarica

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Will any other theme park visitor, or the their owners, be harmed in any way?

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Oh no, them paying money to you for the ticket instead of that money going to the owners doesn't affect the owners at all.

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