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Why is the pilgrim not suxxors anymore?

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Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:39:00 - [1] I've been wondering about this for quite a while. Before there were constant whines about the pilgrim sucking and its price being far below the curse, now the pilgrim actually seems to be a tad more expensive than the curse. I can fly them both but never gave it a try (so far). I rly like the pilgrim's cov ops cloaking ability pretty neat. Any short answer to my question? ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
Nadezhda Andropov	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:43:00 - [2] Short answer, yes. -----------------------------------------------
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:44:00 - [3] Originally by: Nadezhda Andropov Short answer, yes. a reason would be nice, a "yes" doesn't rly explain much ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
vile56 Fractured Core Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:44:00 - [4] if only you looked was about 12 topics below you my super big faction sale
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:46:00 - [5] Originally by: vile56 if only you looked was about 12 topics below you Reading comprehension owns you. I didn't ask for a pilgrim fit ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
Smirna Auff	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:52:00 - [6] Web Nerf made AB tanking viable.
MalVortex Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:53:00 - [7] Short answer: web range is no longer suicide, afterburners are now worth fitting. Previously, targets were either way too fast to catch reliably, or they web you and remove your ability to TD under their guns. Cruise Missiles would own you, as they were far more speed reliant than sig reliant. Now cruise missiles won't touch you with an AB, and a web wont get you blown up. Conversely, the Curse can't do ~3kms anymore, and so its left with a very flimsy tank and can only range kite. If a target can hit you still, it will force you off the field in short order.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.22 21:55:00 - [8] thanks to the two replies above that made sense o7 ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
Weeka Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:05:00 - [9] The speednerf hit the curse a lot harder than the pilgrim, thats probably why it doesn't suck so much anymore .. tracking was nerfed, making the EW somewhat more attractive missile damage was nerfed agaisnt moving targets adding to the survivability of the pilgrim nicely So hug your target, scrambler and TD prefered, suck it dry and remember that drones don't jam, they rock. ---
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Weeka The speednerf hit the curse a lot harder than the pilgrim, thats probably why it doesn't suck so much anymore .. tracking was nerfed, making the EW somewhat more attractive missile damage was nerfed agaisnt moving targets adding to the survivability of the pilgrim nicely So hug your target, scrambler and TD prefered, suck it dry and remember that drones don't jam, they rock. yeah that's the only tactics I've seen so far that seems viable, cheers for the tip. maybe the pilgrim suits me better then since I like cloaky, TD, AB and scrambler ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
Foulque	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Weeka tracking was nerfed, making the EW somewhat more attractive I take it you're talking about webs being nerfed because tracking wasn't touched. ________
Weeka Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Foulque I take it you're talking about webs being nerfed because tracking wasn't touched. Tracking of several turrets was indeed nerfed and I'm talking about the pilgrims EW, which is tracking disruptors (unnerfed). ---
Shereza	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:24:00 - [13] Edited by: Shereza on 22/03/2009 22:25:36 Originally by: Wideen Originally by: vile56 if only you looked was about 12 topics below you Reading comprehension owns you. I didn't ask for a pilgrim fit If you had read the thread you might have noticed that one post touched on an answer to your question if it didn't answer it completely. No offense but making such blunders while denigrating someone else's reading comprehension is a wee bit asinine. Edit: Originally by: Weeka Originally by: Foulque I take it you're talking about webs being nerfed because tracking wasn't touched. Tracking of several turrets was indeed nerfed and I'm talking about the pilgrims EW, which is tracking disruptors (unnerfed). Wha-huh? Can you back this up? Perhaps link to an official CCP statement of such or the patch notes it's located in? ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Weeka Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Shereza Wha-huh? Can you back this up? Perhaps link to an official CCP statement of such or the patch notes it's located in? Took a look at the patch notes, and I can not back this one up. Around that time I remember som ss of large hybrid turret stats around, that showed decreased tracking, but apparently that never went live. My bad. ---
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.22 22:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Shereza If you had read the thread you might have noticed that one post touched on an answer to your question if it didn't answer it completely. No offense but making such blunders while denigrating someone else's reading comprehension is a wee bit asinine. no offense taken. Expecting me to scroll through a topic that clearly says "Pilgrim Setups" makes little sense but which is besides the point. The point is that telling me to go through threads to look for an answer that is by topic clearly unrelated is on the other hand kind of lacking wouldn't you say? ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
JgGravy	Posted - 2009.03.23 01:26:00 - [16] The Pilgrim has always been enjoyable for me. Find target, get close, decloak, lock and cycle the neuts till your drones eat your target. AB is key and have fun. I don't think it sucked pre-nano nerf or after.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.23 01:35:00 - [17] Pilgrim is a great low sec pirate ship. Either the neut version of it, or the pulse laser fit.
Neyro7830 Gallente The 5th Freedom Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.23 01:38:00 - [18] Edited by: Neyro7830 on 23/03/2009 01:38:38 Originally by: Wideen Originally by: vile56 if only you looked was about 12 topics below you Reading comprehension owns you. I didn't ask for a pilgrim fit You didn't ask anything. Oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer
Shereza	Posted - 2009.03.23 02:34:00 - [19] Originally by: Wideen no offense taken. Expecting me to scroll through a topic that clearly says "Pilgrim Setups" makes little sense but which is besides the point. The point is that telling me to go through threads to look for an answer that is by topic clearly unrelated is on the other hand kind of lacking wouldn't you say? If you're looking for information and someone points you down a route that you do not follow then yes, something is lacking, but not with the information that was pointed out. If you're relatively new to posting on these forums then consider this a heads up. Topics often go off-topic, wildly off-topic, and slightly off-topic and often cover a lot more, and sometimes a lot less, than was intended by the original poster. If you're a long-time poster then you should know this already so shame on you. Either way I wouldn't have expected you to know the information you were looking for was in that thread. However, when you made your post seeking information and someone suggested you might find it in that thread (regardless of how rude they may have been) you should've actually looked before, in spirit if not in actuallity, calling the other person an idiot. The point is that topics with "wildly unrelated" titles can often have very highly related information. Here's a case in point. Read through that thread and you'll actually find information on armor tanking, specifically armor-tanking Gallente ships, despite the topic being about passive shield tanking and the title clearly stipulating so. While the majority of the thread would have no bearing for someone asking about hyperion fittings those particular posts from that thread would be useful. Of course I'm sure it would've been much easier had vile56 included the post number of the relevant post in his response to you as I did. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.23 06:15:00 - [20] They nerfed TD IIs True story. Originally by: Akita T Seriously ? ...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
vile56 Fractured Core Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2009.03.23 10:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Wideen Originally by: vile56 if only you looked was about 12 topics below you Reading comprehension owns you. I didn't ask for a pilgrim fit nononono read the replys its in there you know what you asked for once again try to not be lazy gj with the wrong smack my super big faction sale
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.23 10:50:00 - [22] Originally by: Shereza Originally by: Wideen no offense taken. Expecting me to scroll through a topic that clearly says "Pilgrim Setups" makes little sense but which is besides the point. The point is that telling me to go through threads to look for an answer that is by topic clearly unrelated is on the other hand kind of lacking wouldn't you say? If you're looking for information and someone points you down a route that you do not follow then yes, something is lacking, but not with the information that was pointed out. If you're relatively new to posting on these forums then consider this a heads up. Topics often go off-topic, wildly off-topic, and slightly off-topic and often cover a lot more, and sometimes a lot less, than was intended by the original poster. If you're a long-time poster then you should know this already so shame on you. Either way I wouldn't have expected you to know the information you were looking for was in that thread. However, when you made your post seeking information and someone suggested you might find it in that thread (regardless of how rude they may have been) you should've actually looked before, in spirit if not in actuallity, calling the other person an idiot. The point is that topics with "wildly unrelated" titles can often have very highly related information. Here's a case in point. Read through that thread and you'll actually find information on armor tanking, specifically armor-tanking Gallente ships, despite the topic being about passive shield tanking and the title clearly stipulating so. While the majority of the thread would have no bearing for someone asking about hyperion fittings those particular posts from that thread would be useful. Of course I'm sure it would've been much easier had vile56 included the post number of the relevant post in his response to you as I did. I'm a long time poster so I know my way around the forums decently I suppose but that's not what this is about. So the guy actually gave me a tip on the subject by linking to a thread which was seemingly unrelated so my bad but seriously do you actually think that I should have looked through unrelated topics to find what I was looking for? If I was looking for a setup I most likely would have looked in that thread but now I was looking for an answer as to why the pilgrim was viable again and considered not to suck. I hope someone will look through this thread when looking for ways on how to find EVE-O information ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.23 10:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Neyro7830 You didn't ask anything. Pls read the topic again. ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.03.23 10:54:00 - [24] Originally by: vile56 Originally by: Wideen Originally by: vile56 if only you looked was about 12 topics below you Reading comprehension owns you. I didn't ask for a pilgrim fit nononono read the replys its in there you know what you asked for once again try to not be lazy gj with the wrong smack it's not about being lazy it's about being directed to a seemingly unrelated topic and knowing how people on the forums sometimes have the tendency to skip half of the OP text I made an assumption that wasn't unrealistic. ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas
Shereza	Posted - 2009.03.23 16:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Wideen So the guy actually gave me a tip on the subject by linking to a thread which was seemingly unrelated so my bad but seriously do you actually think that I should have looked through unrelated topics to find what I was looking for? Actually, yes, I do, and you should've looked twice before you tried to smack him down for it. Originally by: Wideen it's not about being lazy it's about being directed to a seemingly unrelated topic and knowing how people on the forums sometimes have the tendency to skip half of the OP text I made an assumption that wasn't unrealistic. The "old saying" about assumptions comes to mind right now. You weren't wrong to make it, merely to act on it without verifying that you were 100% in the right. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2009.03.23 17:27:00 - [26] Originally by: vile56 if only you looked was about 12 topics below you If only an old forum pro like you knew that you could link individual POSTS not just entire threads. Your response to OP was cheeky and unhelpful. On topic: Despite what people are saying in this topic, the pilgrim is still a steaming pile of ****: 1) Agility 'buff'. Everyone enters warp faster while your targeting delay is just as long. Good luck uncloaking on something smaller than a BS and having it still be there by the time you lock it. 1a) But Endless WARP to them uncloaked and you don't have targeting delay!!!111. With webs being nerfed you pretty much require a scram + web to hold a target in place. So you'd better land inside about 9km of them. 2) The major issues of the pilgrim haven't been addressed. You're still in a t2 hull that operates at point blank range and SLOWLY wears the target down with drones and cap warfare. This means that while you wittle them down the target's friends inadvertibly show up and you're sat right in range of their webs and scrams and are screwed. Fitting an AB (lol) makes getting away even worse. 3) But Endless, the new webs and scrams make it so much better!111 You used to be able to kill solo bcs and cruisers fine before using range scripted TDs and sitting at near 10km. Now, as you wait for them to cap out, you can potentially kill 'solo' (yah right) battleships. Your target selection has basically stayed the same, finding a BS solo who's friends can't get to him before a PILGRIM kills him is basically not adding targets at all. Tl;dr THE PILGRIM IS CRAP 1) 9km is death vs any gang. Pilgrims are too expensive to lose to every 'bait and blob' 2) Your real targets haven't increased as solo BS's are nearly non-existant after QR. 3) Agility 'buff' hurts the pilgrim. 4) ABs are great in 1v1s vs scrammed targets but rubbish for dealing with a changing combat environment (adds, jam ship, sniper, inty tackler etc).
vile56 Fractured Core Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2009.03.24 01:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Endless Subversion Originally by: vile56 if only you looked was about 12 topics below you If only an old forum pro like you knew that you could link individual POSTS not just entire threads. Your response to OP was cheeky and unhelpful. On topic: Despite what people are saying in this topic, the pilgrim is still a steaming pile of **: 1) Agility 'buff'. Everyone enters warp faster while your targeting delay is just as long. Good luck uncloaking on something smaller than a BS and having it still be there by the time you lock it. 1a) But Endless WARP to them uncloaked and you don't have targeting delay!!!111. With webs being nerfed you pretty much require a scram + web to hold a target in place. So you'd better land inside about 9km of them. 2) The major issues of the pilgrim haven't been addressed. You're still in a t2 hull that operates at point blank range and SLOWLY wears the target down with drones and cap warfare. This means that while you wittle them down the target's friends inadvertibly show up and you're sat right in range of their webs and scrams and are screwed. Fitting an AB (lol) makes getting away even worse. 3) But Endless, the new webs and scrams make it so much better!111 You used to be able to kill solo bcs and cruisers fine before using range scripted TDs and sitting at near 10km. Now, as you wait for them to cap out, you can potentially kill 'solo' (yah right) battleships. Your target selection has basically stayed the same, finding a BS solo who's friends can't get to him before a PILGRIM kills him is basically not adding targets at all. Tl;dr THE PILGRIM IS CRAP 1) 9km is death vs any gang. Pilgrims are too expensive to lose to every 'bait and blob' 2) Your real targets haven't increased as solo BS's are nearly non-existant after QR. 3) Agility 'buff' hurts the pilgrim. 4) ABs are great in 1v1s vs scrammed targets but rubbish for dealing with a changing combat environment (adds, jam ship, sniper, inty tackler etc). were did i post not new*? i never stated i was uber forum god, and it did help interesting conundrum you know the wrong part my super big faction sale
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.03.24 05:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Endless Subversion Despite what people are saying in this topic, the pilgrim is still a steaming pile of **: 1) Agility 'buff'. Everyone enters warp faster while your targeting delay is just as long. Good luck uncloaking on something smaller than a BS and having it still be there by the time you lock it. 1a) But Endless WARP to them uncloaked and you don't have targeting delay!!!111. With webs being nerfed you pretty much require a scram + web to hold a target in place. So you'd better land inside about 9km of them. 2) The major issues of the pilgrim haven't been addressed. You're still in a t2 hull that operates at point blank range and SLOWLY wears the target down with drones and cap warfare. This means that while you wittle them down the target's friends inadvertibly show up and you're sat right in range of their webs and scrams and are screwed. Fitting an AB (lol) makes getting away even worse. 3) But Endless, the new webs and scrams make it so much better!111 You used to be able to kill solo bcs and cruisers fine before using range scripted TDs and sitting at near 10km. Now, as you wait for them to cap out, you can potentially kill 'solo' (yah right) battleships. Your target selection has basically stayed the same, finding a BS solo who's friends can't get to him before a PILGRIM kills him is basically not adding targets at all. Tl;dr THE PILGRIM IS CRAP 1) 9km is death vs any gang. Pilgrims are too expensive to lose to every 'bait and blob' 2) Your real targets haven't increased as solo BS's are nearly non-existant after QR. 3) Agility 'buff' hurts the pilgrim. 4) ABs are great in 1v1s vs scrammed targets but rubbish for dealing with a changing combat environment (adds, jam ship, sniper, inty tackler etc). Sadly, this man speaks the truth. I have flown Pils countless times. Indeed it is a ship with which I have a love/hate relationship. I have flown active tank Pilgrims (terrible), cap warfare pils, gunpilgrim - and most every variation of all the above. The ship just doesn't work; it remains broken. I love that it can tank, fit a cov ops cloak and look like pure sex while doing it. But all the points raised above are the reasons this ship is still terribad. I fly in low sec in Faction Warfare and trying to get a target to sit sill long enough for you to tackle, after allowing for just normal module lag upon delcoaking, is almost impossible. I can have modules running hot and be cloaked just 2K behind a gate. When a target comes through and sits for a few moments I'm still unable to decloak, lock and scram/double web in the time it takes anything smaller than a BC to align and warp away.. and that's with max targeting skills. And when you can force a fight, even gunpilgrim struggles to drop most targets in the time it takes for their friends to show up from 2 systems away. Honestly, I love this ship, but it's an expensive exercise in futility. Now I just have one in the hangar for ninja-ratting my sec status up on occasion in 0.0. I got kills in the Pilgrim, sure. But not enough to justify the expense of my many losses. -- Meridius Dex** Visit the Gunship Forums --

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