Originally by: Artemis Rose

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I'm confused, you spend the majority of your post being "RABBBLE RABBLE can flippers are scum" and then you admit to can flipping a hapless noob in a mining condor and killing him?

Congrats.

I guess.

Im just stating that Im perturbed. I wasnt speaking bad about can flippers. As far as the condor, simply giving ref. to my noob days.
Im looking for responses and opinions on what plp think about ccp's action to control this type of "grief" and on how noobs cry about it and play off as a victim when they are simply ignorant. Thank for strengthening my point. Noobs cant read!

Originally by: Requiescat

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thx for bolding the parts anyone cares about

and how would I know any one persons specific interests, or what they care about.
Are you not capable of deciding that for yourself?

Originally by: Requiescat

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3/10, caught me by surprise but wasn't very funny

lol what are you saying?

Originally by: 10k1e

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Edited by: 10k1e on 23/03/2009 08:52:17
why you assume that all the people should play like you ?

how many tears you will manage to squeeze if lets say ccp sudently say "jetcans will have a security lock" ?

in short : if the life for new players will be easier, without wanna be epeen pirates who blow up mindless their whole week gain, and brag about it in c&p, we will have more and various targets around. for sure they will not complain losing in a pvp ship, but they will quit rage when a glorious can flipping self epeen proclamed hero will blow up his mining ships by can flipping.


My point here i guess is that noobs stop playing eve because they are not reading and/or paying attention

your point is idiotic.
i trained a good friend of mine for abour 2-3 weeks almost every day for a good 2-3h, and i manage to teach him the basics of the eve. nothing fancy and advanced. and i dint not repeat a thing twice. he understand very well. amount of info's that new players should learn is stupidly high.


tutorial and info boxes leaves a player bend over, without pants and undies.

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why you assume that all the people should play like you ?

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I dont assume all players play like me. I am simply speaking to the ones that do.

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how many tears you will manage to squeeze if lets say ccp sudently say "jetcans will have a security lock" ?

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None. sounds like a good solution. Or at lease allow anchoring of secure cans in "noobspace"

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in short : if the life for new players will be easier, without wanna be epeen pirates who blow up mindless their whole week gain, and brag about it in c&p, we will have more and various targets around. for sure they will not complain losing in a pvp ship, but they will quit rage when a glorious can flipping self epeen proclamed hero will blow up his mining ships by can flipping.

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poorly written

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your point is idiotic.

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Thanks for this opinion

Originally by: Asuka Smith

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EVE is not fair and if they want to mine into a jet can then they are accepting the risks.

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Originally by: Firkragg

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I have no issue with can baiting at all if people wanna do it but i agree with it being banned in starter systems. Its hardly a noobs fault if they dont know the ins and outs of game mechanics.

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Originally by: 10k1e

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Edited by: 10k1e on 23/03/2009 09:26:27

Originally by: Firkragg

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I have no issue with can baiting at all if people wanna do it but i agree with it being banned in starter systems. Its hardly a noobs fault if they dont know the ins and outs of game mechanics.

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tbh like a side note, hulks@co should be banned aswell in starter sistems.

...poorly writen...

i think you understand my point. my english in not that good and is not my 2' language aswell. maybe 4rd one, if that was bothering you.

A noob is given the tools to understand its mechanics. When the box comes up giving them a warning

that warning is not the problem.
your action, wich comes without warning or with poorly or missing documentation, is.

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Originally by: Asuka Smith

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Unless they want to make the starter systems into something like the Isle of Tortuga (A separate instance of the game that only new players can go to, and once they finish there they can never return) then it seems to me like a "starter system" is more of "just a system" and should not be treated any differently than any other system.

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Originally by: 10k1e

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Edited by: 10k1e on 23/03/2009 09:38:12
you really dont want to understand ? is not freaking moral, and i dont care about moral either. moral pixels rolf.

my point is tutorial and info's ingame are ok for a single player pve sided game. after you finish the tutorial, you dont have any single ideea what the others players can do, and that is the base on how can flippers works.

tbh, i would probably ban jet cans in high sec area, and allow gsc -> 1.0 with a bit larger cargo. in the can flipping **** trowed around.

but there is a lot other issues for new players, poorly documented. especially player vs player (not fight) interaction.

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Originally by: achoura

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I've been playing this game for over 3 years now, and while that may not have been healthy it has been fun. However, it's been a long time since i even went near a tutorial and had no pity for anyone i ransomed flying an armour tanked drake, or shield tanked harb, or had any one of a number of "wtf" modules fitted.

This was until i decided to test the new tutorial on my 19yo younger brother which seems to go resonably well with the re-written, clearer tutorial. Unfortunately, the mission/mining tutorials appear to have been written by poeple who never played eve, he too an amarr character, to an amarr agent, to a sansha mission and the mission tutorial told him to fit a shield booster. W.T.F. The more you poke around the more you realise alot of what noobs are doing isn't stupid, they're mostly failing for following advice by someone who give them "i don't have a clue" advice.

Anyway, what ccp are trying to do with your cans is give people enough information to make a decision, rather than blindly, and therefore understandably, get miffed when they explode with no clue why. My point anyway, is people general perceive noobs as ignorant, stupid or lazy when in fact they are (generally) nothing of the sort. They follow tutorials which have a 1 in 3 chance of, being correct, being wrong e.g. shield tank your mauler or being incomplete.

In any case, if you've been playing for over a year and still popping noobs like that you are griefing. Yes, it may be a valid mechanic but if people go out trying to harass new players, playing on their ignorance, then it's going to get cvhanged no matter what you think. If the noob knew any better they'd be petitioning you for griefing but in true ccp style, those tutorials omit 95% of the game.

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Originally by: Ms Delerium

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My point is that even with that "warning box" most of new players won't take it seriously as its "their ore".

See it like this: you never been attacked. you a pacific new player who is mining for some fresh isk. 1million is like a fortune to you, as your mining ship is worth less than 100k including modules and the awesome Badger mk1 is 500k and can hold the incredible amount of 5000m3...

Now you fly back to the belt after a good mining session and fly to your Cargo Container. Approaching... it's yellow on overview but where the hecks in the tutorial does it warn about this? You take it and a stupid box is disturbing the screen. "wtf this is my ore, it must be a game bug"

BLOWN.




The moral is: you sure want to kill Ibis, Condors, Cormorants and Badgers... classic eve ships over starter systems. Don't act like "you are an innocent player who happens to be in this system". You are in that system for a purpose.

Wait, you probably spend 50% of your EVE life over Todaki isnt it? Ahhhh Todaki, the good Caldari carebear-starting system. Why flying to any of the other 4999 systems? It HAS to be Todaki as you wont get a **** anywhere else.

You an epic hero and your killboard shows more K than L oh oh long life to the great MeatSlah


LOL. Harsh. So you ignore the warning and die and its my fault. And ill kill anything. or at least attempt to.

Originally by: Flashh Gorden

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Lol so your crying that its going to be harder to pick on brand new players?
Ohnestly eve is a big game you should get out see a bit more of it.

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Originally by: Lexia Stone

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Canflippers are pretty lame in general but flippers in starter

systems are just spineless PvP wannabe cowards who are too scared

to fight someone that can actually fight back. Why don't you head

out to lowsec or nullsec and see how hardcore you are then. You

wouldn't last a day.

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Originally by: Junko Togawa

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Said it before, I'll say it again. Don't wanna be canflipped, DON'T MINE INTO A CAN. I have no sympathy for anyone who complains about anything that happens to them because they were jetcan mining. The mechanics are plainly and clearly documented for anyone who takes a minute to read about them and understand them. It's very easy to avoid getting messed with in EvE if you do some basic research and(gasp)LEARN about it. OMG nowai, actually having to UNDERSTAND something...WTF's the world coming to?!?

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Originally by: Mickey Simon

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Originally by: Lexia Stone

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Why don't you head out to lowsec or nullsec and see how hardcore you are then. You wouldn't last a day.

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wat

The whole "REAL PVPERS DO IT IN 0.0" argument is a bit lame. Some of my best fights have been while can flipping capable opponents in hisec, and I've fought in losec and nosec.
I appreciate what you're trying to say, but the whole "lol nub go 2 nosec if you want REAL PvP" rhetoric gets a tad tiring so sorry for this rant -_-

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Originally by: TimMc

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Stop baiting newbs and go bait barges or something... at least its a step up.

Better yet grow a pair and goto low sec.




And yes, I have been baited in my newbie past and they annoyed me. I got ****ed enough that I fitted a disruptor on my barge to kill the ****ers.

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Originally by: Mickey Simon

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Originally by: Jogvan

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For CCP it's not just a moral issue, but about subscription money. If people are getting killed and lose everything they got they will most likely quit the game, which for some reason people think is a huge achievement...

Leave the 1 day noobs alone, let them get rich and phat and then you kill them and might actually get some valuable loots from their wrecks.

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Pretty much this.

If you're in the starter system, you're either a) completely new, b) suffering some sort of disability and unable to get out of the starter area, or c) attempting to prey on people who are just orientating themselves to the game.

I'm all for keeping EVE harsh, but baiting people who may be still going through the starter tutorial in the starter system is too much. If killing Ibis's really matters that much to you (srsly, your ammo is worth more than the loot O_O) then go do it next door to the starter system.

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Originally by: Count MonteCarlo

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You're doing it wrong

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Originally by: Flashh Gorden

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Lol so your crying that its going to be harder to pick on brand new players?
Ohnestly eve is a big game you should get out see a bit more of it.

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Originally by: Admunian

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Edited by: Admunian on 23/03/2009 16:26:47
CCP, in my opinion, is a great company and are handling EVE with magnificent maneuvers.

That being said, MeatSlab is 100% right in his post... CCP is being rather contradictory, as EVE is supposed to be a harsh game where you suffer consequences which sometimes aren't even your own fault. The banning of something as simple as can flipping in the starter systems could lead to an action being taken against can flipping overall at some point...

EVE was perfectly okay before this ban was enacted, and I do believe that players should have complete freedom in what they do. After all, again, there IS a tutorial which teaches you to BE CAREFUL in the game, along with the warning message which DOES pop up. Correct, it is their ore which is being stolen, but why should they NOT take the warning box seriously? And if indeed they don't and the result is a lost ship, they learned a tough but valuable lesson. And if that distresses them, the result is either yet another petition CCP has to deal with or them leaving the game which they obviously can't handle anyway.

edit: paragraphs :)

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Thank GOD for you. I Needed that. plp gangin up on me and not seeing what im talking about. Hit the nail right on the head. PROPS

Originally by: Jimer Lins

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No one feels sorry for noobs. You're assuming that everyone who doesn't think it's a good idea to allow them to be ganked in starter systems is some kind of dewy-eyed carebear, and you look like an idiot for it.

There's no need for CCP to allow people who don't even know where the overview is to be blown up because they're still learning all the ins and outs of the game with the worst learning curve in the entire MMO industry.

Also, a major aspect of EVE is risk. You don't risk anything by what you describe. You're absolutely invulnerable, and that's the biggest problem- when something happens in this game for which there is no counter, one will be made possible eventually. CCP has always designed this game so that ANY action you take has SOME element of risk to it. You risk absolutely nothing- you could probably go AFK and tank 20 noobships all day long.

Ganking noobs in starter systems is counterproductive, costs subscribers, creates ill-will toward a game that doesn't have a lot of it in the MMO community, makes adoption of the game less likely, prevents new blood from joining, and affects CCP's bottom line, which is why it is not and never will be allowed.

On top of all that, it's just pathetic. At least go after miners instead of noobs, they might have a combat alt or be able to switch into something that can shoot back.

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Originally by: MeatSlab

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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No one feels sorry for noobs. You're assuming that everyone who doesn't think it's a good idea to allow them to be ganked in starter systems is some kind of dewy-eyed carebear, and you look like an idiot for it.

There's no need for CCP to allow people who don't even know where the overview is to be blown up because they're still learning all the ins and outs of the game with the worst learning curve in the entire MMO industry.

Also, a major aspect of EVE is risk. You don't risk anything by what you describe. You're absolutely invulnerable, and that's the biggest problem- when something happens in this game for which there is no counter, one will be made possible eventually. CCP has always designed this game so that ANY action you take has SOME element of risk to it. You risk absolutely nothing- you could probably go AFK and tank 20 noobships all day long.

Ganking noobs in starter systems is counterproductive, costs subscribers, creates ill-will toward a game that doesn't have a lot of it in the MMO community, makes adoption of the game less likely, prevents new blood from joining, and affects CCP's bottom line, which is why it is not and never will be allowed.

On top of all that, it's just pathetic. At least go after miners instead of noobs, they might have a combat alt or be able to switch into something that can shoot back.

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plp do feel sorry for noobs Linkage

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Originally by: Karo Tsakkatoa

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Not really sure who's the bigger noob to be honest... The new player who gets ganked as a result of not knowing better after undocking for the first time, or the year old player who sits around ganking Velators, then proceeds to the forums to whine about CCP saying he shouldn't do so.

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Originally by: Pajama Sam

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I'm not going to get started on argue about bait and can flipping and all that in newb systems. I'll I'm going to say is that, yes I do bait newbs, but only to teach them to be wary of cans. I always send them some isk or whatever afterwards.

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Originally by: Lana Torrin

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Is anyone else reading this and thinking MeatSlab looks like he has something large and uncomfortable up his bum?

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