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Solid Prefekt
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:34:00 -
[1]
So, where the heck are these T3 ships. If past history tells us anything, the first ships would bring great profits. However, I am not seeing anything. Has CCP really made it that hard to put a single cruiser together?
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:35:00 -
[2]
someone bought a hull for 1.8 bill.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:36:00 -
[3]
T3?? What are they for??
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minerboob
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:56:00 -
[4]
Edited by: minerboob on 24/03/2009 02:04:14
QUOTE: Has CCP really made it that hard to put a single cruiser together?
Yes
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Nexus Kinnon
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:00:00 -
[5]
THERE ISN'T T3 IN JITA FOR 100MIL PER HULL TWO WEEKS AFTER THE EXPANSION
CALL IN THE RIOT POLICE
**** IS GOING HAYWIRE
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUC*********************************************************KK
 Quote:
It is unseemly when a player becomes a self-congratulatory poastaholic
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Renarla
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:00:00 -
[6]
There hasn't been enough time to build any, FFS. Give it a few months.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:02:00 -
[7]
The build requirements for them are extremely complex. It will take a while before people are able to really start cranking them out.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:08:00 -
[8]
There have been several manufactured and sold, but on private contracts arranged by forum auctions rather than on the market or in-game auction contracts (and yes, the most publicized one was a 1.8 bil hull).
Still, the outlook after 2 weeks doesn't feel good, exactly as predicted by most alleged "naysayers".
I don't expect prices for T3 ships to go below half a bil for an assembled ship (or all its components unassembled) any time soon (as in, this year, which barely started), let alone the 200-ish mil in accordance to CCP's expressed desires of having them "cost about as much as a T2 cruiser", not unless CCP operates massive drop rate and harvesting changes.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Solid Prefekt
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Renarla
There hasn't been enough time to build any, FFS. Give it a few months.
A few months? Are you kidding me? this is supposed to be a roaming cruiser ship (around the cost of other T2 cruisers). We are not talking about a mothership or titan here. On top of that you lose SP when you die in the ship, so you think they would be a tad easier on the wallet because of this. None of the past tons of ships they released took a few months to create. Even the Marauder and Black Ops came out relatively quick.
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Renarla
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Solid Prefekt
Originally by: Renarla
There hasn't been enough time to build any, FFS. Give it a few months.
A few months? Are you kidding me? this is supposed to be a roaming cruiser ship (around the cost of other T2 cruisers). We are not talking about a mothership or titan here. On top of that you lose SP when you die in the ship, so you think they would be a tad easier on the wallet because of this. None of the past tons of ships they released took a few months to create. Even the Marauder and Black Ops came out relatively quick.
I'm talking a few months before they're common on the markets. Once people get the process down it'll take a week or two to build one.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Renarla
I'm talking a few months before they're common on the markets. Once people get the process down it'll take a week or two to build one.
It's not the process that's the problem, it's the scarcity in supply of needed materials... or better said, a problem with the rewards people expect to get after a wormhole trip.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 02:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Solid Prefekt
Originally by: Renarla
There hasn't been enough time to build any, FFS. Give it a few months.
A few months? Are you kidding me? this is supposed to be a roaming cruiser ship (around the cost of other T2 cruisers). We are not talking about a mothership or titan here. On top of that you lose SP when you die in the ship, so you think they would be a tad easier on the wallet because of this. None of the past tons of ships they released took a few months to create. Even the Marauder and Black Ops came out relatively quick.
Are you dumb? Or just totally clueless?
Check:
1. time needed to find good gas source (c540 etc)
2. time needed to harvest right amount of gas
3. time needed to process it
4. time needed to find components for reverse engineering
5. time needed to get skills for reverse engineering (for those who dont have em at proper level... so like everyone)
6. time needed to produce all components for BPC (this includes getting right amounts, getting salvage etc)
7. time needed to actually TRAIN SKILLS for t3 production
About 5% of current inventors can start t3 production right off the bat. Rest dont have skills needed. And "skills needed" arent some "lol 2 days" ones. They take 20-25 days per one (starship lv5, cruiser construction lv5).
After this wait a bit more till market is saturated (usually takes 1 month). And then wait another 1-2 months for prices to drop and stabilise. Tadam you have 4 MONTHS of waiting.
And as comparison: time to invent marauder is around 3 days, production is similiar. You dont need to "hunt" for components, you use same as all other t2 ships (and market is flooded with them). Do you see market flooded with t3 components?
So unless you have some super-sikrit-knowledge of things i missed then either STFU and patiently wait or produce t3 yourself. Or if ya want you can pay me around 5-8bil isk and ill get ya your own t3 ship fast.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Armoured Investments
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Posted - 2009.03.24 03:50:00 -
[13]
there are a few of the items around but until people actually learn to konw what they are looking for they are looking for the haystack , which is no a hay stack i a haymountian
please go back to sleep op and let the world pass you when you open you eyes it will be 2310
join from 10,000 isk per share
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/03/2009 04:27:34
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
[...]
5. time needed to get skills for reverse engineering (for those who dont have em at proper level... so like everyone)
[...]
7. time needed to actually TRAIN SKILLS for t3 production
[...]
About 5% of current inventors can start t3 production right off the bat. Rest dont have skills needed. And "skills needed" arent some "lol 2 days" ones. They take 20-25 days per one (starship lv5, cruiser construction lv5).
[...]
The only skill that is relevant and wasn't needed at all before is Jury Rigging V for the subsystems (a 10-day train for heavily industry-specced characters).
Cruiser Contruction V was already needed for command ship construction.
<racial> starship enginnering 5 was not absolutely needed by anybody, but inventors and people harvesting datacores would likely have wanted to have those to L5.
Also, the skills were up on SiSi for a while before the actual patch, so everybody who really wanted to bother with T3 manufacture (and with some prior experience) WOULD have been able to have all the needed skills in place a while ago, not just now.
Sure, there aren't many people that could reverse engineer and manufacture all T3 ships from the get-go, but SOME were, for sure.
But other than that, yeah, you have a point : the man-hours needed to get all stuff for a T3 ship (even under ideal circumstances of safety and no mistakes) are far too high, so when you also consider the risks involved people won't settle for a low ISK pricetag on those manhours... and that's exactly what we warned CCP about, they heavily misestimated the desirable drop rates needed for their desired pricetags.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 24/03/2009 04:27:34
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
[...]
5. time needed to get skills for reverse engineering (for those who dont have em at proper level... so like everyone)
[...]
7. time needed to actually TRAIN SKILLS for t3 production
[...]
About 5% of current inventors can start t3 production right off the bat. Rest dont have skills needed. And "skills needed" arent some "lol 2 days" ones. They take 20-25 days per one (starship lv5, cruiser construction lv5).
[...]
The only skill that is relevant and wasn't needed at all before is Jury Rigging V for the subsystems (a 10-day train for heavily industry-specced characters).
Cruiser Contruction V was already needed for command ship construction.
<racial> starship enginnering 5 was not absolutely needed by anybody, but inventors and people harvesting datacores would likely have wanted to have those to L5.
Also, the skills were up on SiSi for a while before the actual patch, so everybody who really wanted to bother with T3 manufacture (and with some prior experience) WOULD have been able to have all the needed skills in place a while ago, not just now.
Sure, there aren't many people that could reverse engineer and manufacture all T3 ships from the get-go, but SOME were, for sure.
But other than that, yeah, you have a point : the man-hours needed to get all stuff for a T3 ship (even under ideal circumstances of safety and no mistakes) are far too high, so when you also consider the risks involved people won't settle for a low ISK pricetag on those manhours... and that's exactly what we warned CCP about, they heavily misestimated the desirable drop rates needed for their desired pricetags.
That's weird, I've been saying the same thing in another thread that I started, and all I've been getting for my trouble is flamed to ****. 
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 05:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Solid Prefekt
So, where the heck are these T3 ships. If past history tells us anything, the first ships would bring great profits. However, I am not seeing anything. Has CCP really made it that hard to put a single cruiser together?
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
someone bought a hull for 1.8 bill.
/this
Its not hard to put the components together but you have to give the infrastructure and its unique materials time to get established. This isn't like some generic crafting in eveyones favorite fantasy mmo were you take an animal hide and some copper and make a +100 shield with a few hammer hits. Manufactoring in Eve is as close to rl production as viewed from a managerial point of view as you are going to get in a game.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.03.24 05:12:00 -
[17]
The problem CCP have created isn't the Sleepers, it's piracy. Not only do you have to deal with Sleepers which are hard but also with pirates who will sweep in and blow you up. So now you have to go in with a relatively large gang. It's going to take a while for this to become clear but I don't think that T3 will ever become widely available unless CCP change the mechanics and prevent Worm Hole space from becoming pirate space.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.24 05:16:00 -
[18]
t2 invention/production horde, reporting for opining duty.
I haven't bothered with t3. In the least. You know why? Because as thins are now the eve-wide market for these cruisers is approximately 10 units. If that. It makes no sense to waste even a week of training time on a market that tiny.
1.8B for a hull may have been cheap, but you still have to remember that purchaser needs 5-15 modules to make it go. And nobody would fit a ~5 billion ISK cruiser with t1 rigs or t2 modules, so let's add another 5B for fittings. Pretty soon we're talking mothership level investment for a cruiser.
Even if cost these things drop by a factor of 10 (to a billion or so, fitted) that'd still limit the market to collectors.
I don't think costs will drop as quickly as some predicted without CCP intervention in either drop rates or production costs. The first person to undock in a t3 cruiser would get ganked at the very next gate. I'm as fluffy a carebear as they come, yet I'd be sprinting for the nearest insured megathron as soon as I saw a t3 cruiser.
Manufacture is a volume game. It's absolutely senseless to waste even a week of training on something which won't have future payout. As things currently stand the t3 industry is stillborn.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.24 05:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Super Whopper
The problem CCP have created isn't the Sleepers, it's piracy. Not only do you have to deal with Sleepers which are hard but also with pirates who will sweep in and blow you up. So now you have to go in with a relatively large gang. It's going to take a while for this to become clear but I don't think that T3 will ever become widely available unless CCP change the mechanics and prevent Worm Hole space from becoming pirate space.
LOL. Piracy isn't the problem. Stupid players are the problem. I've been happily farming Sleepers in w-space and have had zero problems with pirates. On the other hand, I've been happily (again) killing other players in w-space. I love having local in delayed mode. It rewards the intelligent players and punishes those who aren't.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Allen Ramses
Caldari
Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.24 07:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That's weird, I've been saying the same thing in another thread that I started, and all I've been getting for my trouble is flamed to ****.
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Gil Danastre
Amarr
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 07:24:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Gil Danastre on 24/03/2009 07:24:53
I think part of the slowness in getting tech 3 to market for the foreseeable future as well is the fact that nearly all of the tech 3 production stuff can only be done at new POS structures or caldari research outposts. afaik there aren't any of those in empire, so that leaves POS's for the people who previously did all their inventing in empire.
Add that too to the fact that all the polymer production requires new structures entirely, and you probably have many smaller tech 2 producers that can't/dont want to run even more POS's unwilling to give up their profits in the switchover to T3.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 07:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That's weird, I've been saying the same thing in another thread that I started, and all I've been getting for my trouble is flamed to ****.
You're not the only one saying this, and you're certainly not the first one... people that helped test stuff on SiSi have said the very same thing all along... the joke is that the drop rates WERE adjusted by CCP already to some degree after overwhelming negative player feedback, but nowhere near the levels the players have suggested as reasonable.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Zarroh
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Super Whopper
The problem CCP have created isn't the Sleepers, it's piracy. Not only do you have to deal with Sleepers which are hard but also with pirates who will sweep in and blow you up. So now you have to go in with a relatively large gang. It's going to take a while for this to become clear but I don't think that T3 will ever become widely available unless CCP change the mechanics and prevent Worm Hole space from becoming pirate space.
Nonsense... That's the beauty of Apocrypha. w-Space = Unknown Space.
Anything can happen at anytime. To explorers, pirates, Manufacturers etc...
I like to be alert at all times in W-Space, I like to mine or harvest in there, I like to clear "my" temporary space out of intruders (if I am in the mood for it), I like to network in there and I like the fact that it isn't sovereign and controlled space.
Not happy with it? Go back to Highsec.
W-space is not your backyard, w-space needs coordination and innovation, both for solo and gang players. Which makes this expansion almost perfect.
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:33:00 -
[24]
1) 1.8bil for a hull is not cheap if you think that, go and pvp for a bit you'll soon realise that its an expensive profession.
2) Pirates are not a problem if you pay attension, don't try and use a wh thats already got peeps in and have ever pvped before.
...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan
I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Gluthor
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Primnproper
1) 1.8bil for a hull is not cheap if you think that, go and pvp for a bit you'll soon realise that its an expensive profession.
2) Pirates are not a problem if you pay attension, don't try and use a wh thats already got peeps in and have ever pvped before.
what sort of price do people pay for dreads ? i heard they get used in pvp ? but i can't be sure on that, i've never left jita.
I'm amazed how cheap that hull was having read all the whining on the forums.
T3 isn't just the next level from T2, you don't just switch from one to the other and expect lots of profit. It's been designed to actually be challenging, and will reward those who put the effort in, rather than the carebears who come to the forum to cry because it's too hard.
give it some time and let things settle out, there will be changes made, and probably new moduels specifically adapted to w-space, and then the prices will come down, just give it a chance !!!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gluthor
what sort of price do people pay for dreads ? i heard they get used in pvp ? but i can't be sure on that, i've never left jita.
They cost less, and unlike a Strategic Cruiser they can't be nuked by a single Battlecruiser.
Quote:
give it some time and let things settle out, there will be changes made, and probably new moduels specifically adapted to w-space, and then the prices will come down, just give it a chance !!!
The problem is that if the prices go down, they won't be worth producing because it won't pay for the effort, and if the prices stay high, they also won't be worth producing because there's no market for them.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:52:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/03/2009 08:54:05
gah
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That's weird, I've been saying the same thing in another thread that I started, and all I've been getting for my trouble is flamed to ****.
Don't worry. It's not the idea people don't like.
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Amateratsu
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:17:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Amateratsu on 24/03/2009 09:18:56
On the whole i think the devs did a good job with T3.
any tom, **** and harry can invent and produce T2.
T3 was designed to be much more involved and challenging. and the prices will reflect that.
They may need to tweak some areas eg the ancient relics needed for reverse engineering the blueprints which are currently way too expensive to make it worth while.
but on the whole im looking forward to the challenge of producing them.
First tho i have 3 months of skilltraining to do just for 1 race + the need to put up a starbase for the job. (even tho i can aready produce 90% of TII)
Give it time and the ships will start to appear.
á
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
The build requirements for them are extremely complex. It will take a while before people are able to really start cranking them out.
People won't start "cranking them out", as you said, if there's no demand for it. And current component prices making the construction of a T3 cruiser with 5 subsystems insanely high is really killing it.
No demand->no reason for hte supply to increase->The whole content of Apocrypha get only marginally used.
We warned CCP, but they didn't listen. As a result it will take months and several fixes increasing material harvesting output before it become worthwhile to mass-product T3 cruisers
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