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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:48:00 -
[31]
It took a while for the T2 stuff to really start appearing, and I mean a few months. It may be commonplace now, but it wasn't to begin with.
This will be the same. It will take a few months for the production lines to crank up and start producing them. Once the supply and demand stabilises, then we will start to see a regular supply, and the price will come down.
The price will eventually reflect the risk vs reward balance, and it may well reach the same price as T2 cruisers. If it doesn't, I'm sure CCP will tweak the drop rates to push it such a way, as is their intention.
This is the nature of a free market. Things do not happen overnight, but take time to filter through. If this is too frustrating, then you are playing the wrong game for you.
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Madorthene
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:59:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Madorthene on 24/03/2009 10:05:12 Edited by: Madorthene on 24/03/2009 10:01:25 T3 ships, no thanks :P
Right now, T3 ships manufacturing is too time expensive to do. Get all the items, materials, blah blah. There are one important thing to know about ... its new and profitable, for now. Many players are probing and farming sleepers because selling stuff is worthwhile or they just wanna try it, see how it works, its a new feature ! .. but for how long ? I bet this wormhole-mania wont last longer then few months. ATM even some pvp oriented groups are trying wormhole, but they WILL get bored, its still PVE part of the game, and they will come back to normal style of PVP life. On the otherside, carebears, who could do this instead of missions will return to missions, because there are no risks in empire, and, heh unknown is 0.0 .. they can loose their ships :(
In my opinion as the time passes, less and less players will be interested in doing wormholes. Which means less material for building T3 stuff ...
EDIT: what i mean is better written in here :P http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1030667&page=1#1
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:02:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/03/2009 10:05:43
Originally by: Akita T
The only skill that is relevant and wasn't needed at all before is Jury Rigging V for the subsystems (a 10-day train for heavily industry-specced characters).
Cruiser Contruction V was already needed for command ship construction. <racial> starship enginnering 5 was not absolutely needed by anybody, but inventors and people harvesting datacores would likely have wanted to have those to L5.
And thats what im saying. Datacore harvesting people usually had this at 5 but lots of em never bothered with cruiser contr5. And vice-versa. There are plenty people with one of em at lvl5 but to get both at 5 it suddenly gets quite rare.
Quote:
Also, the skills were up on SiSi for a while before the actual patch, so everybody who really wanted to bother with T3 manufacture (and with some prior experience) WOULD have been able to have all the needed skills in place a while ago, not just now. Sure, there aren't many people that could reverse engineer and manufacture all T3 ships from the get-go, but SOME were, for sure.
Sisi experience says CCP likes to ***** out from their ideas. "Waaah, waah skill reqs to high, CCP halp".
Quote:
But other than that, yeah, you have a point : the man-hours needed to get all stuff for a T3 ship (even under ideal circumstances of safety and no mistakes) are far too high, so when you also consider the risks involved people won't settle for a low ISK pricetag on those manhours... and that's exactly what we warned CCP about, they heavily misestimated the desirable drop rates needed for their desired pricetags.
Yup. And im still not negating the old "CCP, we told you so". Just showing that some of stuff people say/want has no cover in reality. And like above, i think that even after prices stabilise (those ca. 3 months) t3 will be vastly overpriced compared to what it can do.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:05:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Super Whopper The problem CCP have created isn't the Sleepers, it's piracy. Not only do you have to deal with Sleepers which are hard but also with pirates who will sweep in and blow you up. So now you have to go in with a relatively large gang. It's going to take a while for this to become clear but I don't think that T3 will ever become widely available unless CCP change the mechanics and prevent Worm Hole space from becoming pirate space.
This is bullcrap. I already visited around 50 wspaces. Fought other players only once (my anti-sleepr setups have scrambler so i got nice kills ;p), once i saw some dominixes when i was just exiting (farmed all radar/magnetos in system), once saw ships in POS and once Kronos+Paladin but didnt have time to find em and kill em.
All you need in wspace is particular MINDset. If you prepare for sleepers like for pvp then what are you afraid of? Hostile gang? Isnt it exactly what your gang is setup to kill?
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Learol
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:31:00 -
[35]
i gave up on t3 ships way back when the idea behind them was changed from being able to make your own ship for any purpose, mining, hauling, salvaging, shooting, whatever using components to û DAE HAZ GUNZ!!!! |
stonerjesus
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Madorthene
In my opinion as the time passes, less and less players will be interested in doing wormholes. Which means less material for building T3 stuff ...
Which is exactly why the more productive, efficient and intelligent groups will continue to to produce T3 hulls and subsystems. As all the fickle individual leave the market the prices go up, meaning an increase in profitability.
People will always want shiny toys, including these T3 cruisers. And they are actually very good shiny toys to boot, which further increases their profitability.
One way or another, T3 is going to be produced. And one way or another, T3 is going to be bought.
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Cailais
Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:03:00 -
[37]
T3 should be seen from the long term perspective. Personally I dont see the production chain for T3 meeting the demand for T3 until well into 2010.
Currently production corps are used to operating on the 'one corp does it all' principal - but the supply chain for T3 is too complex and too unreliable (w-space) for that to occur.
Gradually T3 components will filter down however, absorbed from w-space into k-space and therefore become common place, but probably spread thinly across the universe. Some corps will start to specialise in a specific are (e.g making electronic subsystems) rather than build an entire ship and the chain will complete.
That all takes a lot of time, and to an extent a change in approach and attitude. Store-fronts might ease this process if they ever materialise - in my view theyre the 'missing element' today.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:06:00 -
[38]
T3 production
What part of this looks even remotely fun or worthwhile.
I don't know how the industry players can take doing all that lol. I would go insane. Stop, hammer time. |
Verx Interis
Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:54:00 -
[39]
EVERY time CCP have a new thing in the game like this.
There is a mob of naysayers who claim the new stuff will never catch on.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
It has never happened as the naysayers claim. ---- Logins required for this post: 472555 |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:55:00 -
[40]
There is another factor that people aren't really considering. The "ooo shiney!" wearing off. This was perfectly demonstrated with Faction Warfare. There was a point some months after it's release where the population in it really started to drop off. Right after release always give a "false high" because everyone and their dog is trying it because it's new.
The same thing will happen with WH space. It's just a matter of when. And the danger is that if CCP doesn't keep a careful eye on it, the T3 market is liable to spiral before it even gets started. I think they need to be a bit more proactive in their tuning rather than reactive. Here's hoping their already on it.
----
=v= |
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:04:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cailais T3 should be seen from the long term perspective. Personally I dont see the production chain for T3 meeting the demand for T3 until well into 2010.
Currently production corps are used to operating on the 'one corp does it all' principal - but the supply chain for T3 is too complex and too unreliable (w-space) for that to occur.
Gradually T3 components will filter down however, absorbed from w-space into k-space and therefore become common place, but probably spread thinly across the universe. Some corps will start to specialise in a specific are (e.g making electronic subsystems) rather than build an entire ship and the chain will complete.
That all takes a lot of time, and to an extent a change in approach and attitude. Store-fronts might ease this process if they ever materialise - in my view theyre the 'missing element' today.
C.
This, to a degree.
T3 production is indeed very complex, and with a few notable exceptions I believe we are going to see far more specialization in T3 production. Most corps just aren't capable of doing it all from start to finish in any kind of timely and profitable fashion. However, they can easily focus on a particular facet of T3 production and make a very nice profit.
Once the market becomes fleshed out, prices will stabilize. Right now everyone is trying to "do it all" as they have in the past, or are fumbling around in the dark trying to find their niche.
People will get a handle on it, its just a matter of time. Then we will see where the prices stabilize.
===== Yeah, VC is back, and we have a bone to pick with you. |
Verx Interis
Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Cailais T3 should be seen from the long term perspective. Personally I dont see the production chain for T3 meeting the demand for T3 until well into 2010.
Currently production corps are used to operating on the 'one corp does it all' principal - but the supply chain for T3 is too complex and too unreliable (w-space) for that to occur.
Gradually T3 components will filter down however, absorbed from w-space into k-space and therefore become common place, but probably spread thinly across the universe. Some corps will start to specialise in a specific are (e.g making electronic subsystems) rather than build an entire ship and the chain will complete.
That all takes a lot of time, and to an extent a change in approach and attitude. Store-fronts might ease this process if they ever materialise - in my view theyre the 'missing element' today.
C.
This, to a degree.
T3 production is indeed very complex, and with a few notable exceptions I believe we are going to see far more specialization in T3 production. Most corps just aren't capable of doing it all from start to finish in any kind of timely and profitable fashion. However, they can easily focus on a particular facet of T3 production and make a very nice profit.
Once the market becomes fleshed out, prices will stabilize. Right now everyone is trying to "do it all" as they have in the past, or are fumbling around in the dark trying to find their niche.
People will get a handle on it, its just a matter of time. Then we will see where the prices stabilize.
About the corps taking different parts - most likely. There are corps that live in wormholes already, and they will probably be the biggest provider of the raw materials, and may do some processing at a POS. Meanwhile other people buy those materials and do the reverse engineering stuff to make the ship. ---- Logins required for this post: 632074 |
Turiel Demon
Minmatar Inhumation Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:31:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Verx Interis EVERY time CCP have a new thing in the game like this.
There is a mob of naysayers who claim the new stuff will never catch on.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
It has never happened as the naysayers claim.
So, you're seeing a lot of BlackOps ships flying around while you run COSMOS missions do you?
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:40:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Turiel Demon
Originally by: Verx Interis EVERY time CCP have a new thing in the game like this.
There is a mob of naysayers who claim the new stuff will never catch on.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
It has never happened as the naysayers claim.
So, you're seeing a lot of BlackOps ships flying around while you run COSMOS missions do you?
That is because the ship doesn't work quite right. Not because they cost too much or they are hard to produce. (Fuel bay? HELLO CCP.) Stop, hammer time. |
Max Hardcase
Art of War
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:54:00 -
[45]
I think he means that CCP's track record for timely fixes is a bit spotted ( Bombers, BlacksOps, certain rigs etc etc etc )
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Gunner
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.24 19:45:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Verx Interis EVERY time CCP have a new thing in the game like this.
There is a mob of naysayers who claim the new stuff will never catch on.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
It has never happened as the naysayers claim.
Does not mean it will not happen again this time, your logic is flawed. *** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Psi Draconis
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:21:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Solid Prefekt
Originally by: Renarla There hasn't been enough time to build any, FFS. Give it a few months.
A few months? Are you kidding me? this is supposed to be a roaming cruiser ship (around the cost of other T2 cruisers). We are not talking about a mothership or titan here. On top of that you lose SP when you die in the ship, so you think they would be a tad easier on the wallet because of this. None of the past tons of ships they released took a few months to create. Even the Marauder and Black Ops came out relatively quick.
You are totally wrong.
Do you remember how long it took to T2 supply get in market back in 2004?
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:38:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Psi Draconis
Originally by: Solid Prefekt
Originally by: Renarla There hasn't been enough time to build any, FFS. Give it a few months.
A few months? Are you kidding me? this is supposed to be a roaming cruiser ship (around the cost of other T2 cruisers). We are not talking about a mothership or titan here. On top of that you lose SP when you die in the ship, so you think they would be a tad easier on the wallet because of this. None of the past tons of ships they released took a few months to create. Even the Marauder and Black Ops came out relatively quick.
You are totally wrong.
Do you remember how long it took to T2 supply get in market back in 2004?
Word. With Marauders and Black Ops all the infrastructure and supplychains were already in place. All that was needed was for someone to invent a BPC and get producing. There were no new components and no new materials, the exception being Marauder/Black Ops BPCs.
Here there is absolutely no infrastructure in place. People are figuring out a new system for the first time. It's going to take months. At least the goods are fairly easily available to everyone, so people don't have to track down Dysprosium moons for the chain to even start working. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Hanns
Canadian Aerospace Defence Sector
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Megan Maynard T3 production
What part of this looks even remotely fun or worthwhile.
I don't know how the industry players can take doing all that lol. I would go insane.
Fail link.
Originally by: Tuxford a new retribution bonus +1 med slot per level
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MrTripps
Gallente Hedonistic Squirrels Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:38:00 -
[50]
CCP: Letting some crazy people pay to do things that seem like work to normal people since 2003.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson. |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.25 00:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Turiel Demon So, you're seeing a lot of BlackOps ships flying around while you run COSMOS missions do you?
That is because the ship doesn't work quite right. Not because they cost too much or they are hard to produce.
Are you saying that if Black Ops would cost at current material prices around 100 mil to invent and manufacture, you wouldn't see a lot of them flying around ? I find that hard to believe. _ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
AdmiralDovolski
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.03.25 01:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Turiel Demon So, you're seeing a lot of BlackOps ships flying around while you run COSMOS missions do you?
That is because the ship doesn't work quite right. Not because they cost too much or they are hard to produce.
Are you saying that if Black Ops would cost at current material prices around 100 mil to invent and manufacture, you wouldn't see a lot of them flying around ? I find that hard to believe.
i know that although i love my black ops, the price is big.
if this were to happen, i guarantee i would fly it more
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Celestal
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Posted - 2009.03.25 02:00:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
LOL. Piracy isn't the problem. Stupid players are the problem. I've been happily farming Sleepers in w-space and have had zero problems with pirates. .
ROFL
yeah i guess you never do bother yourself ( but some of us do know different ) :-)
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.03.25 02:17:00 -
[54]
Can't help but to bubble out 'I told you so'. T3 cruisers won't be piloted any more than faction ships, they're very much gimmicky ships.
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Trojanman190
Yultani Advanced Research
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Posted - 2009.03.25 02:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Psiri Can't help but to bubble out 'I told you so'. T3 cruisers won't be piloted any more than faction ships, they're very much gimmicky ships.
This is absolutely not true. Have you seen some of the bonuses? An armor tanked rapieresq t3 ship with the 30% web bonus will become a the heart of any serious RR gang who have always lacked serious tackling power.
They wont be common by any means but I'm absolutely more likely to spend crap loads of isk on a t3 ship than I am on a Navy Mega or Fleet Pest.
Also, I don't know why anyone hasn't pointed this out... those t3 modules allow for extremely powerful and BROAD fittings... they are perfect for running around in wormholes.
Anyhoo... there should be less t3 than t2. There is less t2 than there is t1.
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