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Detaurus	Posted - 2004.08.20 09:15:00 - [31] And this is Constructive?
Detaurus	Posted - 2004.08.20 09:15:00 - [32] And this is Constructive?
ActiveX	Posted - 2004.08.20 09:19:00 - [33] Det, go away. ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
ActiveX	Posted - 2004.08.20 09:19:00 - [34] Det, go away. ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
Loud Bob	Posted - 2004.08.20 09:26:00 - [35] Can some one please supply a link for the requirements and stats for the new Assualt/Escort Frigates?
Loud Bob	Posted - 2004.08.20 09:26:00 - [36] Can some one please supply a link for the requirements and stats for the new Assualt/Escort Frigates?
Grut	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: NTRabbit Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yeah, they're all very powerful. Except the Retribution which is hopelessly broken and without any application whatsoever. And the Hawk and Harpy which just as hopelessly broken, with shield tanking the way it is now. Broken, are they? Take for example a Hawk: it has 225 CPU and 50 Grid Take a Small shield booster II, cap recharger II, and 2Magnetic scattering amplifier II, and 2 PDU on low slots That take you 25+15+230+20+20=140 CPU at worst, leaving you 85 CPU and almost all the grid for the weapons. That give you a shield tank able to recover 37.5 HP every two seconds, for 20 cap, with a fairly good cap recharge and the following shield resists: EM: 61% Exp:60% Kin:70% Therm:80% His point is that everyone and their mum is gonna pack a mwd and enough overdrives/abs to get over 2kms. In addition noone in their right mind is going to put sheild hardeners on a frigate, capture kit is far more important. Mostly harmless
Grut	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: NTRabbit Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yeah, they're all very powerful. Except the Retribution which is hopelessly broken and without any application whatsoever. And the Hawk and Harpy which just as hopelessly broken, with shield tanking the way it is now. Broken, are they? Take for example a Hawk: it has 225 CPU and 50 Grid Take a Small shield booster II, cap recharger II, and 2Magnetic scattering amplifier II, and 2 PDU on low slots That take you 25+15+230+20+20=140 CPU at worst, leaving you 85 CPU and almost all the grid for the weapons. That give you a shield tank able to recover 37.5 HP every two seconds, for 20 cap, with a fairly good cap recharge and the following shield resists: EM: 61% Exp:60% Kin:70% Therm:80% His point is that everyone and their mum is gonna pack a mwd and enough overdrives/abs to get over 2kms. In addition noone in their right mind is going to put sheild hardeners on a frigate, capture kit is far more important. Mostly harmless
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:11:00 - [39] Linkage They need Frigate V, Engineering V, Assault Frigate I...And Mechanic V i believe /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:11:00 - [40] Linkage They need Frigate V, Engineering V, Assault Frigate I...And Mechanic V i believe /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Boonaki	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:32:00 - [41] 4 or 5 of these friggies are going to be nasty. However they'll still get owned by a heavy nos and a swarm of med drones. As far as the missile changes, torps will do squat damage on frigates howver cruise still do nice damage on em. Fear the Ibis of doom.
Boonaki	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:32:00 - [42] 4 or 5 of these friggies are going to be nasty. However they'll still get owned by a heavy nos and a swarm of med drones. As far as the missile changes, torps will do squat damage on frigates howver cruise still do nice damage on em. Fear the Ibis of doom.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Grut His point is that everyone and their mum is gonna pack a mwd and enough overdrives/abs to get over 2kms. In addition noone in their right mind is going to put sheild hardeners on a frigate, capture kit is far more important. That may be the case. In fact, that will probably be the case. But those who'll do this will be wrong. If you want to play interceptor, why don't you get one? Those Assault frigs are slow, and they have easily twice the tonnage of a frig. A MWD will be usefull to them, but won't do miracles. What is the purpose of an Assault frig? -Escort more vulnerables ships: They have the potential to do it well, and If I was an inty I'd think twice before entering the range of one of those ships, knowing that they have the tracking and damage to hurt me while my weapons would barely dent it's defenses. They don't have to go pursuing a more agile ship, leaving their charge vulnerable to sneak attack. -Attack bigger ships: They can avoid a lot of damage with their speed/low sig (even if not nearly as many than an interceptor), and can tank the damage they can't avoid. Actually I think they're almost too perfect for that. I'm not sure that a bunch of drones would last enough to kill an Assault frig, and battleships usually have very little beside drones to kill small ships (Except for cruises/torpedoes, but there's a balance issue there).
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.08.20 10:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Grut His point is that everyone and their mum is gonna pack a mwd and enough overdrives/abs to get over 2kms. In addition noone in their right mind is going to put sheild hardeners on a frigate, capture kit is far more important. That may be the case. In fact, that will probably be the case. But those who'll do this will be wrong. If you want to play interceptor, why don't you get one? Those Assault frigs are slow, and they have easily twice the tonnage of a frig. A MWD will be usefull to them, but won't do miracles. What is the purpose of an Assault frig? -Escort more vulnerables ships: They have the potential to do it well, and If I was an inty I'd think twice before entering the range of one of those ships, knowing that they have the tracking and damage to hurt me while my weapons would barely dent it's defenses. They don't have to go pursuing a more agile ship, leaving their charge vulnerable to sneak attack. -Attack bigger ships: They can avoid a lot of damage with their speed/low sig (even if not nearly as many than an interceptor), and can tank the damage they can't avoid. Actually I think they're almost too perfect for that. I'm not sure that a bunch of drones would last enough to kill an Assault frig, and battleships usually have very little beside drones to kill small ships (Except for cruises/torpedoes, but there's a balance issue there).
Shin Taka	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:01:00 - [45] Edited by: Shin Taka on 20/08/2004 12:03:16 I find it amusing, CCP introduce a new ship type, and most people seem to want them to be interceptors. Assault frigates are not interceptors. Webs and warps are not their forte. They deal in death and take a beating. They should scare the (currently) almost invincible interceptor pilots. And Istvaan, while the Retribution does indeed only have 1 mid, and its armour+sheild+structure is the same as the rest, most of them will loose 25% sheilds straight away, where as the retribution is still head and shoulders tougher. Its higher grid and cap means it'll be ok to run 4xMedium Pulse, and with RoF AND Damage bonuses available, a Well trained Retribution pilot will rock the proverbial Kasbah. <Disclaimer> I am aware of 101 differnt ways to defeat intyerceptors, which someone will come on and tell me now. I'm just pointing out, that they should be a lot less amazing now. </Disclaimer> ----------- Keeper of the Wombat 2004.09.03 00:42:20notifyTraining of the skill Repair Systems lvl 6 has been completed.
Shin Taka	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:01:00 - [46] Edited by: Shin Taka on 20/08/2004 12:03:16 I find it amusing, CCP introduce a new ship type, and most people seem to want them to be interceptors. Assault frigates are not interceptors. Webs and warps are not their forte. They deal in death and take a beating. They should scare the (currently) almost invincible interceptor pilots. And Istvaan, while the Retribution does indeed only have 1 mid, and its armour+sheild+structure is the same as the rest, most of them will loose 25% sheilds straight away, where as the retribution is still head and shoulders tougher. Its higher grid and cap means it'll be ok to run 4xMedium Pulse, and with RoF AND Damage bonuses available, a Well trained Retribution pilot will rock the proverbial Kasbah. <Disclaimer> I am aware of 101 differnt ways to defeat intyerceptors, which someone will come on and tell me now. I'm just pointing out, that they should be a lot less amazing now. </Disclaimer> ----------- Keeper of the Wombat 2004.09.03 00:42:20notifyTraining of the skill Repair Systems lvl 6 has been completed.
Loud Bob	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Linkage They need Frigate V, Engineering V, Assault Frigate I...And Mechanic V i believe Thats ok then, I have all four race frigate skills at lvl 5, Engineering & mechanics at lvl 5 too. So when I get back online (in a couple of days) I will be able to pick up the Assualt Frig skill and train it to lvl 4. Then it's just a matter of the advanced gunnery skills
Loud Bob	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Linkage They need Frigate V, Engineering V, Assault Frigate I...And Mechanic V i believe Thats ok then, I have all four race frigate skills at lvl 5, Engineering & mechanics at lvl 5 too. So when I get back online (in a couple of days) I will be able to pick up the Assualt Frig skill and train it to lvl 4. Then it's just a matter of the advanced gunnery skills
Shaun Ronin	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:25:00 - [49] I laready fly an interceptor and there is NO WAY i will put the trap stuff on an assault frig. except maybe a webber. cuz a webbed interceptor in a caldari or gallente assault frigs crosshairs with blasters at the trigger is dead in 2-3 volleys ;]. I already ahve covert ops and that is an awsome spy/intel platform and a passive targeter helps when you want to use a ship scanner. I just appear friendly anyway assault frigs will finally give us frig pilots something that can REALLY compete with a BS by itself or in a pair. but no way am i doing the crazy speed and trap setup thats for ceptors plain n simple
Shaun Ronin	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:25:00 - [50] I laready fly an interceptor and there is NO WAY i will put the trap stuff on an assault frig. except maybe a webber. cuz a webbed interceptor in a caldari or gallente assault frigs crosshairs with blasters at the trigger is dead in 2-3 volleys ;]. I already ahve covert ops and that is an awsome spy/intel platform and a passive targeter helps when you want to use a ship scanner. I just appear friendly anyway assault frigs will finally give us frig pilots something that can REALLY compete with a BS by itself or in a pair. but no way am i doing the crazy speed and trap setup thats for ceptors plain n simple
Loud Bob	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:41:00 - [51] These things would be very hard to put down, especially with armor hardners. e.g. Adaptive nano plating II and Thermic plating II on a Retribution would give the following armor resistance: EM: 72.5% Explosive: 92.5% Kinetic: 75% Thermic: 97.5% Please correct me if i am wrong.
Loud Bob	Posted - 2004.08.20 11:41:00 - [52] These things would be very hard to put down, especially with armor hardners. e.g. Adaptive nano plating II and Thermic plating II on a Retribution would give the following armor resistance: EM: 72.5% Explosive: 92.5% Kinetic: 75% Thermic: 97.5% Please correct me if i am wrong.
Shin Taka	Posted - 2004.08.20 12:03:00 - [53] I find it amusing, CCP introduce a new ship type, and most people seem to want them to be interceptors. Assault frigates are not interceptors. Webs and warps are not their forte. They deal in death and take a beating. They should scare the (currently) almost invincible interceptor pilots. And Istvaan, while the Retribution does indeed only have 1 mid, and its armour+sheild+structure is the same as the rest, most of them will loose 25% sheilds straight away, where as the retribution is still head and shoulders tougher. Its higher grid and cap means it'll be ok to run 4xMedium Pulse, and with RoF AND Damage bonuses available, a Well trained Retribution pilot will rock the proverbial Kasbah. <Disclaimer> I am aware of 101 differnt ways to defeat intyerceptors, which someone will come on and tell me now. I'm just pointing out, that they should be a lot less amazing now. </Disclaimer> ----------- Keeper of the Wombat 2004.09.03 00:42:20notifyTraining of the skill Repair Systems lvl 6 has been completed.
Shin Taka	Posted - 2004.08.20 12:03:00 - [54] I find it amusing, CCP introduce a new ship type, and most people seem to want them to be interceptors. Assault frigates are not interceptors. Webs and warps are not their forte. They deal in death and take a beating. They should scare the (currently) almost invincible interceptor pilots. And Istvaan, while the Retribution does indeed only have 1 mid, and its armour+sheild+structure is the same as the rest, most of them will loose 25% sheilds straight away, where as the retribution is still head and shoulders tougher. Its higher grid and cap means it'll be ok to run 4xMedium Pulse, and with RoF AND Damage bonuses available, a Well trained Retribution pilot will rock the proverbial Kasbah. <Disclaimer> I am aware of 101 differnt ways to defeat intyerceptors, which someone will come on and tell me now. I'm just pointing out, that they should be a lot less amazing now. </Disclaimer> ----------- Keeper of the Wombat 2004.09.03 00:42:20notifyTraining of the skill Repair Systems lvl 6 has been completed.
Grut	Posted - 2004.08.20 12:30:00 - [55] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Grut His point is that everyone and their mum is gonna pack a mwd and enough overdrives/abs to get over 2kms. In addition noone in their right mind is going to put sheild hardeners on a frigate, capture kit is far more important. That may be the case. In fact, that will probably be the case. But those who'll do this will be wrong. If you want to play interceptor, why don't you get one? Those Assault frigs are slow, and they have easily twice the tonnage of a frig. A MWD will be usefull to them, but won't do miracles. (Except for cruises/torpedoes, but there's a balance issue there). But last time I checked the cruise changes werent in, standard frigs can get away with it by being cheap and expendable but 20mils worth of elite frig? your gonna have alot of cruise chasing you. Inties can do something bs and cruisers cant, with assualts this isnt the case. I currently used a maller rigged for anti frig apart from the sig radius the stats are almost identical, looks like assaults will grab a role from cruisers rather then carving their own. I expect the caldari ships to be rigged with dual mwd web + scram as std and used as high hp inties. Very lame, but IMO thats the way they'll probably be Mostly harmless
Grut	Posted - 2004.08.20 12:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Grut His point is that everyone and their mum is gonna pack a mwd and enough overdrives/abs to get over 2kms. In addition noone in their right mind is going to put sheild hardeners on a frigate, capture kit is far more important. That may be the case. In fact, that will probably be the case. But those who'll do this will be wrong. If you want to play interceptor, why don't you get one? Those Assault frigs are slow, and they have easily twice the tonnage of a frig. A MWD will be usefull to them, but won't do miracles. (Except for cruises/torpedoes, but there's a balance issue there). But last time I checked the cruise changes werent in, standard frigs can get away with it by being cheap and expendable but 20mils worth of elite frig? your gonna have alot of cruise chasing you. Inties can do something bs and cruisers cant, with assualts this isnt the case. I currently used a maller rigged for anti frig apart from the sig radius the stats are almost identical, looks like assaults will grab a role from cruisers rather then carving their own. I expect the caldari ships to be rigged with dual mwd web + scram as std and used as high hp inties. Very lame, but IMO thats the way they'll probably be Mostly harmless
Grut	Posted - 2004.08.20 12:34:00 - [57] Originally by: Loud Bob These things would be very hard to put down, especially with armor hardners. e.g. Adaptive nano plating II and Thermic plating II on a Retribution would give the following armor resistance: EM: 72.5% Explosive: 92.5% Kinetic: 75% Thermic: 97.5% Please correct me if i am wrong. Your wrong, to calculate resists take the percentage of dmg you'd take, so 1 for em vs shields and times it by the hardener. For stacking times this new value by the next hardener. The actual result is low in game as hardener modules have an additional stacking penalty when more then one of the same module is used. Resist 1x hardener 2x hardener In game with stacking penalty 0% 50% 75% ~68% Mostly harmless
Grut	Posted - 2004.08.20 12:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Loud Bob These things would be very hard to put down, especially with armor hardners. e.g. Adaptive nano plating II and Thermic plating II on a Retribution would give the following armor resistance: EM: 72.5% Explosive: 92.5% Kinetic: 75% Thermic: 97.5% Please correct me if i am wrong. Your wrong, to calculate resists take the percentage of dmg you'd take, so 1 for em vs shields and times it by the hardener. For stacking times this new value by the next hardener. The actual result is low in game as hardener modules have an additional stacking penalty when more then one of the same module is used. Resist 1x hardener 2x hardener In game with stacking penalty 0% 50% 75% ~68% Mostly harmless
Barbicane	Posted - 2004.08.20 16:19:00 - [59] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yeah, they're all very powerful. Except the Retribution which is hopelessly broken and without any application whatsoever. Yeah, I calculated that with RCU2 in all the low slots, it would get a powergrid of 140 MW, which is still 10 MW short of being able to run a 10 MN MWD
Barbicane	Posted - 2004.08.20 16:19:00 - [60] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yeah, they're all very powerful. Except the Retribution which is hopelessly broken and without any application whatsoever. Yeah, I calculated that with RCU2 in all the low slots, it would get a powergrid of 140 MW, which is still 10 MW short of being able to run a 10 MN MWD

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