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Anyone got a Good Manticore Setup?

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Trancehacker Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.26 03:28:00 - [1] Just got Stealth Bomber Capability, Wonderin if anyone knew how to optimally fit it. THANX In Tractus , Nemo Can Audite Vos Scream.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.26 03:34:00 - [2] Reprocessing slot: Manticore Market slot: Harpy Best fit ever. -----------
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.03.26 04:07:00 - [3] Dont listen to above its a good ship. I run 3x cruise II, this may not be viable for you as i have every fitting skill at 5, this allows for precision missile. Depending on what you are doing, i try to fit 2x sensor boosters and the rest damage mods. Sometimes i like to have a passive targeter fit as well. I wont give you a more specific fit because htis ship is very much dependent on fitting skills. I would think most people need to drop to named launchers to make a go of it. The other fitting option is a sensor damper version, but i prefer the sensor boosters myself. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.26 04:26:00 - [4] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 26/03/2009 04:26:11 Originally by: 4 LOM Sometimes i like to have a passive targeter fit as well. Thank you for admitting you have no idea what you are talking about, and therefore no advice worth listening to. Hint: a passive targeter will do absolutely nothing on a bomber. -----------
SpaceBall 7 Heaven's Avatars	Posted - 2009.03.26 04:29:00 - [5] The best manti? probably the one that doesnt get flown =P
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.03.26 04:35:00 - [6] Edited by: 4 LOM on 26/03/2009 04:35:39 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 26/03/2009 04:26:11 Originally by: 4 LOM Sometimes i like to have a passive targeter fit as well. Thank you for admitting you have no idea what you are talking about, and therefore no advice worth listening to. Well in a fleet fight its sometimes very nice to have my next targets locked without them knowing i have them locked.. The manticore is papper then and the less attention i draw to myself the better. Care to explain how thats useless? or is it just because you dont think its usefull. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.26 04:54:00 - [7] Originally by: 4 LOM Well in a fleet fight its sometimes very nice to have my next targets locked without them knowing i have them locked.. The manticore is papper then and the less attention i draw to myself the better. Care to explain how thats useless? or is it just because you dont think its usefull. Because you have fast lock time as a frigate, and therefore don't need to lock the target until you're ready to fire? Because there are so many things that would make better use of that slot? -----------
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.03.26 05:05:00 - [8] Edited by: 4 LOM on 26/03/2009 05:08:30 Edited by: 4 LOM on 26/03/2009 05:08:00 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Because you have fast lock time as a frigate, and therefore don't need to lock the target until you're ready to fire? Because there are so many things that would make better use of that slot? So your absolulty uselss comment is derived from the fact that you dont find the ability usefull to you personal? thats a very small world you live in. in a busy fleet battle reduced micro managment is very usefull to me if i can queen up targets while i dont have anything to do that means i dont have to worry about doing a fast lock open fire target swap after each target dies or warps off... so i can manualy fly the ship or focus on something else. I like the passive targeter, so i stated i sometimes fit it. You state that it does absolutly nothing on a stealth bomber, thats incorect it lets you get targets ready. No matter how invaluable you find that ability some poeple will really like it especially on a paper tank ship. Welcome to eve, were people fit things differntly and to there own style of play. One day you will grow up and realize this (if you are an adult, thats rough being so angry and aggressive about things you dont understand or like, life must be hard) Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.26 07:59:00 - [9] 3 x Arbi 1 x Imp Cloaking II -- 2 x Phased Munon 2 x F-90 SB -- 2 x BCU II rigs to suit - I fit the rigs that support the damps - needs a 3% cpu implant And the arcade is right - its not the manitcore that sucks, its the whole class. . .I recommend a caracal with a cloak - its about as useful and stupid. -----------
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Reprocessing slot: Manticore Market slot: Harpy Best fit ever. Alternatively, wait and see what the Devs do to them. Apparently they're making them use torpedoes and giving them a 10% damage bonus per level, which means they get somewhere in the realm of 3500-4000 alpha. Could be fun. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Logan Xerxes Steel Fleet	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:38:00 - [11] 3x Cruise 1x Cloak 2x Sensorboosters 1x ECM burst 1x Target Painter 2x BCU I've gotten away so many times because of an ECM burst. Get close, knife a frigate and then get out.
Gneeznow North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:42:00 - [12] undock --> self destruct --> buy a bunch of rifters --> ????? --> profit
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:43:00 - [13] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 26/03/2009 08:43:09 Originally by: 4 LOM So your absolulty uselss comment is derived from the fact that you dont find the ability usefull to you personal? thats a very small world you live in. No, it's derived from the fact that the situations where a passive targeter is useful are so narrow that they're not even worth mentioning. Quote: in a busy fleet battle reduced micro managment is very usefull to me if i can queen up targets while i dont have anything to do that means i dont have to worry about doing a fast lock open fire target swap after each target dies or warps off... so i can manualy fly the ship or focus on something else. And in a busy fleet battle, your FC already killed you for bringing such a worthless ship. And let's not forget, your missile flight time is so long at fleet ranges that it doesn't matter whether they know you have a lock, you aren't going to be killing them unless they're already tackled when you open fire. Originally by: Terianna Eri Alternatively, wait and see what the Devs do to them. Apparently they're making them use torpedoes and giving them a 10% damage bonus per level, which means they get somewhere in the realm of 3500-4000 alpha. Could be fun. Too bad they're also getting pathetic range and still have the same problem with their "stealth" being a pathetic joke. At least the current stealth bombers can engage from outside the critical 24km "decloak here and you die" range. A torpedo bomber is just going to be a free killmail 95% of the time. -----------
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:46:00 - [14] SB is fun to fly, but you will be more useful in an AF or ceptor.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Terianna Eri Alternatively, wait and see what the Devs do to them. Apparently they're making them use torpedoes and giving them a 10% damage bonus per level, which means they get somewhere in the realm of 3500-4000 alpha. Could be fun. Too bad they're also getting pathetic range and still have the same problem with their "stealth" being a pathetic joke. At least the current stealth bombers can engage from outside the critical 24km "decloak here and you die" range. A torpedo bomber is just going to be a free killmail 95% of the time. Yeah but at least torpedo explosions look cool __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Shaitis Caldari Reikoku KenZoku	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:53:00 - [16] Hey, sometimes you have to die in some stupid ship.... But honestly Manti can be used sometimes but only if U have one spare left...and nothing else better to fly. In the times when dampeners where omfghaxorz Manti gangs were funny and could get nice killz, now didint seen it really on the battlefield.
Han Harrusii	Posted - 2009.03.26 13:31:00 - [17] I agree with the ECM burst. A life saver. I run: 3xCruise Launcher 1xImp Cloak 2xSensor Booster 1xmECM Burst 1xTarget Painter 1xNano 1xBCS II The Tp is in place of a Sensor Dampener, as I didn't feel the SD was worth it.
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.26 15:01:00 - [18] Please don't put a passive targeter on a stealth bomber. The only time it is effective is against small...and I mean small...groups of players (or an individual) who has no idea how to play the game. In a fleet fight you will NEVER need a passive targeter. Useful mid slot items include the following: MWD (Almost always need one) Sensor Damps Sensor Booster ECCM Target Painters That's about it. Useful lowslots items? Speed mods (nano/overdrive), Co-Processor (one of the only ships I've ever actually used it on), Ballistic Controls, and for the lol-nano fit cap power relay was interesting. The rest of your gang will pretty much determine the mods you put in your other slots. They will also determine if they think you're useful or useless. --- Put in space whales!
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2009.03.26 18:14:00 - [19] Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 26/03/2009 18:26:49 Originally by: Atius Tirawa 3 x Arbi 1 x Imp Cloaking II -- 2 x Phased Munon 2 x F-90 SB -- 2 x BCU II rigs to suit - I fit the rigs that support the damps - needs a 3% cpu implant And the arcade is right - its not the manitcore that sucks, its the whole class. . .I recommend a caracal with a cloak - its about as useful and stupid. Manti is a good ship to fly when its flown right and with the right support.. its not a real effective solo gank ship. this exact setup is a good cookiecutter setup( which with the manti the cookie cutter and some slight varations is about all you can ever do with it) You dont need implants... i fly this same exact ship... just remove the t2 cloak and use a t1 you can still zip around at 100 m/s cloaked with decent skills. moving around fast cloaked isnt as important as what direction your moving in cloak... dont run scripts in the f-90s or you may need to run 1 targeting script depending on your skills. in the dampeners run target range scripts. Your prefered range is going to be 100-130 km. I usually hold about 110-115 km of whatever object ( gate, center of bubble) ... you should be aligned before you decloak to fire. If you get targeted or if any ship gets within 40-50 km of you, you should already be warping and warping back in to a different location. really it requires finesse to fly and not get popped and a bit of luck. Dont bother rigging its not worth 20 mil in rigs on a 20 mil isk paper sack. for what you can rig and t2 cloak one you can build 2 and get twice the fun at only very slightly less effectiveness. The only thing that should ever kill you if you set up and fly it properly is sniper fire. i exclude flying it agaisnt a decent size fleet of 10 plus ship as properly. In the case of battling a decent sized gang that uses long range weapons and /or fast moving ships its not going to last that long. for gate camps/ covert roams its an excellent cheap but effective combat ship EDIT TO ADD: For those against the SBs they either 1) never flown one or 2) dont know how to properly use one. I have flown one in certain pvp gangs for months and have yet to lose one. I have also trained a couple of others to properly fly one and they have yet to lose one in combat and have several kills in them. AF and Intys arent always more useful... i find intys to be one of the most useless ships in the game. they only thing they can do is zip around fast and dodge fire... until you remove their MWD... then they just simply die...quickly. AFS make decent tackles but their dps is really poor, so tackling is about the only thing they are good for. All ships have their uses. mantis are DPS ranged frigates. intys and AFS primarily are used for close range support/tackle ... your mixing two different roles. Perhaps the OP doesnt like close ranged combat or tackling. Just because you think its more useful doesnt mean its more useful. It just means you think people should fly what you like and not what they are asking about.
Elhina Novae Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Blade.	Posted - 2009.03.26 18:26:00 - [20] Edited by: Elhina Novae on 26/03/2009 18:26:33 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 26/03/2009 04:26:11 Originally by: 4 LOM Sometimes i like to have a passive targeter fit as well. Thank you for admitting you have no idea what you are talking about, and therefore no advice worth listening to. Hint: a passive targeter will do absolutely nothing on a bomber. fail Merin ------------ Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem? Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
Jamyl TashMurkon Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.26 18:32:00 - [21] Sell, buy crow Easy as that and i have flown them ALOT SO STOP DONT DO IT SELL IT AND BUY CROW
Niko Mat	Posted - 2009.03.26 20:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Merin Ryskin a passive targeter will do absolutely nothing on a bomber. fail Merin I'd be interested if you could expand on your derision, since I share Merin's view with my current understanding. To my knowledge, there are two relevant facts about passive targeters: 1. They only work if you have no other targets locked 2. They basically mean the opponent doesn't see the "solid yellow brackets" stage of targeting, but don't do anything to the "solid red brackets"/"flashy red background" part. So basically, the situation described above where you passively lock additional targets doesn't seem like it would be possible (given my understanding of how they're used, I may be wrong with this). Additionally, in almost all situations where you're targeting, you'll be locking and precycling the weapons so you go straight from "no lock notification" to "red brackets/flashy red" in exactly the same way whether you use a passive targeter or not. Passive target locking can be worthwhile if you're trying to do something like flip a can, and be able to attack someone the second they take it back without spooking them - or possibly be ready to fire on someone you think is going to go outlaw in lowsec without firing first - but in the majority of situations, it's not that worthwhile. Lock target and fire weapons instantly. Lack of ability to passively lock multiple targets means I actually don't see any real combat situations (i.e., excluding the above) where you'd use them. And that's even assuming that people take different action according to whether they see you have them locked or not (while the existence of this module implies this is true, I'm not convinced; in most situations they will be able to tell you're an enemy and will shoot you if they are able to, regardless of any yellow brackets). Can you passively target multiple ships? Are there many situations where it really would be worthwhile anyway (i.e. where you are shooting someone's friend and somehow you think the existence, or lack of, yellow brackets would make them perceive you as a different kind of threat in any way)?
Trancehacker Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.26 22:57:00 - [23] wow, talk about igniting a healthy discussion. Thanx for all the replies. In truth, the SB is a byproduct of ElecUpg5 which I needed for other things, I noticed when lookin at it it was a paper tank, But I'm workin toward CMSpec and I liked the role bonus. Was just wonderin what the general consensus was on the possible uses of the ship. Great feedback. thx again. In Tractus , Nemo Can Audite Vos Scream.
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.03.26 23:17:00 - [24] Edited by: 4 LOM on 26/03/2009 23:22:14 Originally by: Lisento Slaven Please don't put a passive targeter on a stealth bomber. The only time it is effective is against small...and I mean small...groups of players (or an individual) who has no idea how to play the game. In a fleet fight you will NEVER need a passive targeter. Useful mid slot items include the following: MWD (Almost always need one) Sensor Damps Sensor Booster ECCM Target Painters That's about it. Useful lowslots items? Speed mods (nano/overdrive), Co-Processor (one of the only ships I've ever actually used it on), Ballistic Controls, and for the lol-nano fit cap power relay was interesting. The rest of your gang will pretty much determine the mods you put in your other slots. They will also determine if they think you're useful or useless. This is actually probably true, i have only run the mnaticore in faction wars recently with smaller roaming gangs. In a large 100preson fight its edging on useless. (marin, responding with a nice explination lets me consider your points and why they are valid, hence me conceding some of my argument to lisento) As to those who say its crap dont fly it, well its one hell of a fun ship to fly (at least for me) and really thats whats most important. Manticore can do very well against ships that dont see it comeing, however as soon as they do you are screwed (have poped many in my alt in a taranis before they could do anything about it), i also use to fly it heavily when it was new to the game and there have been many changes to many things since then and i have no large scale fleet operations after these changes with the ship. I am still a believer in the passive targeter as i beleive it has saved me many times in the past (although no way to confirm it). Edit: My uderstanding is it works on multiple targets if that is not the case, then the modual is of limited use but still use. (gate showdown, no one wants to look to aggressive trying to get the other guy/fleet to commit first) Again if i am wrong in its use, you cant lock multiples then i am horribly mistken. I guess i like it, i dont usually run one but ocasionaly i do everyone can disagree with me if they want. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Andre Marconius Gallente House Of Troy	Posted - 2009.03.26 23:33:00 - [25] [Manticore, New Setup 1] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Ballistic Control System II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Improved Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Needs AWU V and Shield Upgrades V (.25 PG left) and is still paper thin so you might want to go for one of the easier fits
Trancehacker Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.26 23:48:00 - [26] actually, now that I think about it, and flame away if this is ridiculous but I am the OP anyway, If a pilot had CruzMisl maxed (Spec5), along with elec and targ skilss high, and that last fit, along with a BLA & Calefaction rig, with remote shield and armor transfer, would it not make a excellent hitter, or is there just no way to thicken the paper with the remote transfer? my train of thought is leadin toward a "Propped Up" killer Cruz Boat..........You May Commence Flame----- In Tractus , Nemo Can Audite Vos Scream.
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.03.26 23:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Trancehacker actually, now that I think about it, and flame away if this is ridiculous but I am the OP anyway, If a pilot had CruzMisl maxed (Spec5), along with elec and targ skilss high, and that last fit, along with a BLA & Calefaction rig, with remote shield and armor transfer, would it not make a excellent hitter, or is there just no way to thicken the paper with the remote transfer? my train of thought is leadin toward a "Propped Up" killer Cruz Boat..........You May Commence Flame----- Its an ok idea, but you will most likely be alpha striked and the remote transfers will do nothing, ships bigger then a frig will kill you so fast the transfer probably wont do anything. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Trancehacker Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.27 00:25:00 - [28] Yes I see, I don't have much large fleet experience. I will continue toward CMSpec5 but prob won't train CovOps then til way later, It's kind of off my path anyway. (13,817,577SP All Lvl 5 Primaries-(xcept CorpMngmnt/Leadership/Trade) Most Lvl 4's in Engineering/MissleOps/Industry/ShipCom/Learning). Goin Hybrid CruzSpec/Mining. So the Covert Ops was a natural opening along the way. I'm sure I'll be posting as many other ships are coming due in my train scenario over the coming weeks. Your advice will save me many misguided training hours I'm sureThanx again. In Tractus , Nemo Can Audite Vos Scream.
Elhina Novae Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Blade.	Posted - 2009.03.27 06:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Niko Mat Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Merin Ryskin a passive targeter will do absolutely nothing on a bomber. fail Merin I'd be interested if you could expand on your derision, since I share Merin's view with my current understanding. To my knowledge, there are two relevant facts about passive targeters: 1. They only work if you have no other targets locked 2. They basically mean the opponent doesn't see the "solid yellow brackets" stage of targeting, but don't do anything to the "solid red brackets"/"flashy red background" part. So basically, the situation described above where you passively lock additional targets doesn't seem like it would be possible (given my understanding of how they're used, I may be wrong with this). Additionally, in almost all situations where you're targeting, you'll be locking and precycling the weapons so you go straight from "no lock notification" to "red brackets/flashy red" in exactly the same way whether you use a passive targeter or not. Passive target locking can be worthwhile if you're trying to do something like flip a can, and be able to attack someone the second they take it back without spooking them - or possibly be ready to fire on someone you think is going to go outlaw in lowsec without firing first - but in the majority of situations, it's not that worthwhile. Lock target and fire weapons instantly. Lack of ability to passively lock multiple targets means I actually don't see any real combat situations (i.e., excluding the above) where you'd use them. And that's even assuming that people take different action according to whether they see you have them locked or not (while the existence of this module implies this is true, I'm not convinced; in most situations they will be able to tell you're an enemy and will shoot you if they are able to, regardless of any yellow brackets). Can you passively target multiple ships? Are there many situations where it really would be worthwhile anyway (i.e. where you are shooting someone's friend and somehow you think the existence, or lack of, yellow brackets would make them perceive you as a different kind of threat in any way)? People can't see that you locked them on your overview which usually gives you 1 or 2 extra volleys before you warp off. Merin / The way its meent to be played - have no idea what hes talking about stealth bombers are a good addition to a large gang. No Raven does outclass it. ------------ Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem? Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.27 07:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Elhina Novae People can't see that you locked them on your overview which usually gives you 1 or 2 extra volleys before you warp off. Merin / The way its meent to be played - have no idea what hes talking about stealth bombers are a good addition to a large gang. No Raven does outclass it. Maybe you should check your facts before making posts accusing other people of having no idea what they are talking about. A passive targeter does NOT conceal your lock once you fire. The moment you activate any offensive module, you will blink red on the target's overview just like normal. Since you will almost always fire as soon as you have a lock, the passive targeter does absolutely nothing to delay your target's realization that they are under attack. Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn EDIT TO ADD: For those against the SBs they either 1) never flown one or 2) dont know how to properly use one. I have flown one in certain pvp gangs for months and have yet to lose one. I have also trained a couple of others to properly fly one and they have yet to lose one in combat and have several kills in them. Sorry, but you're wrong, been there, done that, traded my worthless bomber in for a useful force recon. PS: not dying very frequently is not the same thing as contributing something useful to the fight. Quote: AF and Intys arent always more useful... i find intys to be one of the most useless ships in the game. they only thing they can do is zip around fast and dodge fire... until you remove their MWD... then they just simply die...quickly. AFS make decent tackles but their dps is really poor, so tackling is about the only thing they are good for. Hint to the clueless: the job of a frigate is to tackle. Interceptors tackle. This is not complicated. You don't need to do dps or anything else when you have proper dps ships in your fleet to take care of that (and hint: bombers are not one of them). Quote: All ships have their uses. mantis are DPS ranged frigates. intys and AFS primarily are used for close range support/tackle ... your mixing two different roles. Perhaps the OP doesnt like close ranged combat or tackling. Just because you think its more useful doesnt mean its more useful. It just means you think people should fly what you like and not what they are asking about If you want ranged dps, get a Cerberus, Drake, or Raven. Unlike the bomber, those are actually useful ships that will give your fleet far more dps and tank. -----------

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