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Mallak Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx Luna Sanguinem
77
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 12:41:00 -
[181] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Then again those who get into these events aren't looking for a challenge.
You know, we're actually doing those miners a favour by ganking them.
|

Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
800
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 12:51:00 -
[182] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Then again those who get into these events aren't looking for a challenge. You know, we're actually doing those miners a favour by ganking them.
Explain the nature of this 'favo(u)r". Or is this just hot air wafting across The Pond in the wrong direction for a change..................... "Every other expansion has catered to the pew-pew need for more things to blow up; to more public cries of, "see how valuable I am!" - anon-á "You have to understand that the human ego will do whatever it takes to get attention because it needs to know that it exists." -- RuPaul |

Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
449
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 12:54:00 -
[183] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Then again those who get into these events aren't looking for a challenge. You know, we're actually doing those miners a favour by ganking them. Explain the nature of this 'favo(u)r". Or is this just hot air wafting across The Pond in the wrong direction for a change.....................
We're killing off the competition, smart miners will benefit from less competition (for a while at least) and that is always to their favour.
How long or much, well that's hard to tell to be frank. |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
533
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 13:07:00 -
[184] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:
We're killing off the competition, smart miners will benefit from less competition (for a while at least) and that is always to their favour.
How long or much, well that's hard to tell to be frank.
Yet at the same time your shooting yourself in the foot, since competition drives down prices, which means your ships, mods, and ammo would be cheaper. Ah the irony.
Free-áKugutsumen from censorship and end the bitterness. |

Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 13:33:00 -
[185] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote: Ah the irony.
So much Irony and my clothes are STILL wrinkled. |

Iamien
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 13:43:00 -
[186] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:
We're killing off the competition, smart miners will benefit from less competition (for a while at least) and that is always to their favour.
How long or much, well that's hard to tell to be frank.
Yet at the same time your shooting yourself in the foot, since competition drives down prices, which means your ships, mods, and ammo would be cheaper. Ah the irony.
Tears > 2-20 mill increase in ship costs. |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
533
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:02:00 -
[187] - Quote
Iamien wrote:
Tears > 2-20 mil. increase in ship costs.
One of the biggest complaints coming from nullsec and low sec is the lack of fights and peoples risk aversion. So while a increase in ship cost might not be much to you, it might be to others who are now unwilling to fight because of the increase in cost. As I said earlier, Its like shooting yourself in the foot, then turning around and complaining that your foot hurts.
Free-áKugutsumen from censorship and end the bitterness. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
405
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:04:00 -
[188] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Iamien wrote:
Tears > 2-20 mil. increase in ship costs.
One of the biggest complaints coming from nullsec and low sec is the lack of fights and peoples risk aversion. So while a increase in ship cost might not be much to you, it might be to others who are now unwilling to fight because of the increase in cost. As I said earlier, Its like shooting yourself in the foot, then turning around and complaining that your foot hurts. You have no idea how the game actually works. |

seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
160
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:05:00 -
[189] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Helicity Boson wrote:
We're killing off the competition, smart miners will benefit from less competition (for a while at least) and that is always to their favour.
How long or much, well that's hard to tell to be frank.
Yet at the same time your shooting yourself in the foot, since competition drives down prices, which means your ships, mods, and ammo would be cheaper. Ah the irony.
We're returning to prehistoric times when T2 ships were rare and people had a blast in T1 cruisers  |

Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: You have no idea how the game actually works.
Then either explain or get out
|

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
405
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:19:00 -
[191] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: You have no idea how the game actually works.
Then either explain or get out An introductory economics course at a local community college will give you all the explanation you need. |

Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:23:00 -
[192] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: An introductory economics course at a local community college will give you all the explanation you need.
How unexpected
|

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
534
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:31:00 -
[193] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: You have no idea how the game actually works.
Then either explain or get out An introductory economics course at a local community college will give you all the explanation you need.
Sounds like you need to retake it then. Though I have a feeling you don't actually have a rebuttal or know yourself what your talking about.
Free-áKugutsumen from censorship and end the bitterness. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
405
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:56:00 -
[194] - Quote
I'd estimate that a quarter of my posts in the past week have been made with the explicit intent of explaining why his claim is absurd, but okay, I'll do it again.
1. People who are unwilling to fight when ships are expensive are unwilling to fight when ships are cheap. I have eight years of empirical evidence to support this: not a single time has a single other pvper I've know said "sorry guys, Hurricanes are too expensive, I'll have to sit this one out."
2. High-sec carebears account for a surprisingly small percentage of total mineral production. Of course, this data is only applicable to the point that drone alloys and meta 0 loot are removed. After that point, high-sec carebear mineral output might actually hit double-digit percentage points.
3. The grand majority of pvpers are after kill quality, not kill quantity. If ships triple in price, so will the amount of money we make from loot and ransoms. This might surprise you, but when we play EVE, we're not looking for a deathmatch experience. What this means is that our profits will remain consistent, bringing us to point number four...
4. You have sharks swimming in the salmon pool. While the pvp dynamics between pvpers will remain similar, the carebears will now be taking bigger hits. We're better at pvp than carebears. With this in mind, we'll hit them all the harder, since doing so will result in even more money. This ultimately fits into the next point, and concerns a bunch of economic concepts you might or might not be familiar with, such as equilibrium points.
5. The supply/demand relationship ultimately rules over everything. The more expensive minerals become, the more profitable mining will be compared to other activities. Right now, if I need money, and am relegated to pve activities, I go into a wormhole and draw at least 150 million an hour, solo. The more profitable mining becomes, the more people will brave the risk to reap the increased rewards. While I doubt mining will ever reach wormhole/pre-nerf incursion levels of profitability, if it did, then I'd have no qualms doing it myself. Money is money. |

Iamien
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:56:00 -
[195] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: You have no idea how the game actually works.
Then either explain or get out An introductory economics course at a local community college will give you all the explanation you need. Sounds like you need to retake it then. Though I have a feeling you don't actually have a rebuttal or know yourself what your talking about.
I have no problem finding fights, wherever I go. No idea what risk aversion your talking about. Only people that are averse to loss are those with the mindset that wallet balance is a "Score" and not the resource used to make your actions have meaning. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
802
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 14:57:00 -
[196] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote: smart miners will benefit from less competition (for a while at least) and that is always to their favour.
How long or much, well that's hard to tell to be frank.
Then stop being Frank. 
The Win is indeed that favo(u)r above. My Wallet can't argue with that. "Every other expansion has catered to the pew-pew need for more things to blow up; to more public cries of, "see how valuable I am!" - anon-á "You have to understand that the human ego will do whatever it takes to get attention because it needs to know that it exists." -- RuPaul |

Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
802
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:00:00 -
[197] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: An introductory economics course at a local community college will give you all the explanation you need.
To understand a game ? No thanks. "Every other expansion has catered to the pew-pew need for more things to blow up; to more public cries of, "see how valuable I am!" - anon-á "You have to understand that the human ego will do whatever it takes to get attention because it needs to know that it exists." -- RuPaul |

Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
802
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:03:00 -
[198] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:We're returning to prehistoric times when T2 ships were rare and people had a blast in T1 cruisers 
My Alliance Leader misses the 500 BS Fleets in Null back 'then', for whatever it's worth.
Sounds fun(ner) to me than Caps and Super-Blaps. "Every other expansion has catered to the pew-pew need for more things to blow up; to more public cries of, "see how valuable I am!" - anon-á "You have to understand that the human ego will do whatever it takes to get attention because it needs to know that it exists." -- RuPaul |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
405
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:05:00 -
[199] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: An introductory economics course at a local community college will give you all the explanation you need.
 To understand a game ? No thanks. I always viewed it as "to understand life," with understanding of game economies being a nice little bonus. |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
536
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:08:00 -
[200] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
1. People who are unwilling to fight when ships are expensive are unwilling to fight when ships are cheap. I have eight years of empirical evidence to support this: not a single time has a single other pvper I've know said "sorry guys, Hurricanes are too expensive, I'll have to sit this one out."
This is false but granted that maybe up to personal experience. People would be more willing to fly a frigate then a T2 cruiser in PVP. Why? Because its cheaper. Hence cost does in fact effect peoples risk aversion Look at RvB as a prime example, people flock to it because its combat in cheap ships.
Destiny Corrupted wrote: 2. High-sec carebears account for a surprisingly small percentage of total mineral production. Of course, this data is only applicable to the point that drone alloys and meta 0 loot are removed. After that point, high-sec carebear mineral output might actually hit double-digit percentage points.
This is true between the time that drone alloys was added in as well as L4s and low meta refinement as you stated. However since both those have been removed low end minerals primarily come from high-sec miners.
Destiny Corrupted wrote: 3. The grand majority of pvpers are after kill quality, not kill quantity. If ships triple in price, so will the amount of money we make from loot and ransoms. This might surprise you, but when we play EVE, we're not looking for a deathmatch experience. What this means is that our profits will remain consistent, bringing us to point number four...
In most cases people will kill whatever they can find. In the end people generally only care about padding their KB stats, quality is nice but quantity makes people feel more important. Free-áKugutsumen from censorship and end the bitterness. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
418
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:25:00 -
[201] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:This is false but granted that maybe up to personal experience. lol
Brooks Puuntai wrote:People would be more willing to fly a frigate then a T2 cruiser in PVP. Why? Because its cheaper. Hence cost does in fact effect peoples risk aversion Look at RvB as a prime example, people flock to it because its combat in cheap ships. A frigate is also much less efficient. People will fly a T2 cruiser when it's necessary for the task. Once again, I've never seen a decent pvper (let's face it, month-olds don't fly HACs anyway) say "sorry guys, can't afford the Zealot today, gonna show up in the Punisher instead." Also, cost per se has very little to do with RvB, and the prevalence of tech I ships in that environment.
Brooks Puuntai wrote:This is true between the time that drone alloys was added in as well as L4s and low meta refinement as you stated. However since both those have been removed low end minerals primarily come from high-sec miners. So you're saying that low-end minerals might revert from their free-flowing, depressed state? Are you saying this is a certain bad thing? Well, it might be; I don't have a crystal ball, however, I'm betting against it. A rise in the price of low-ends will shift the risk-reward equation in favor of miners, who will reap increased profit while facing similar costs, seeing as how Tritanium doesn't affect their equipment expenditures too severely.
Brooks Puuntai wrote:In most cases people will kill whatever they can find. In the end people generally only care about padding their KB stats, quality is nice but quantity makes people feel more important. This is an assumption and therefore an invalid argument.
Before you edited your post, you seemed to give in to/digress from the other points I made, so I won't go further. Unless you want me to. |

Molang
MyXGamer
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 23:01:00 -
[202] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Molang wrote:Token care bear speaking
years ago I used to mine for my bread. Man am I glad I got out of the business. small profits, more dangerous than lvl 4 missions,
Yup, my 2 Billion a week with mining, PI, Missions, and Manufacturing BY MYSELF (we are all independent in Corp) and a few other odds and ends, is just so pathetic. You have no clue what you speak of TBH.
Your quote of 2 billion a week is about right for a solo character doing all of those things. however the point was not that you could make a ton while incorporating mining, but that manufacturing, market trading, and mission running, make more per hour in hisec than mining.
Oh and you really should tool up to do research agents. Your missing out on easy isk yo |

EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:19:00 -
[203] - Quote
Special olympics of PvP you are all winners! whats next kittenageddon? bunnyageddon? ibisageddon? |

Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 00:25:00 -
[204] - Quote
Molang wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Molang wrote:Token care bear speaking
years ago I used to mine for my bread. Man am I glad I got out of the business. small profits, more dangerous than lvl 4 missions,
Yup, my 2 Billion a week with mining, PI, Missions, and Manufacturing BY MYSELF (we are all independent in Corp) and a few other odds and ends, is just so pathetic. You have no clue what you speak of TBH. Your quote of 2 billion a week is about right for a solo character doing all of those things. however the point was not that you could make a ton while incorporating mining, but that manufacturing, market trading, and mission running, make more per hour in hisec than mining. Oh and you really should tool up to do research agents. Your missing out on easy isk yo
Not for long
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |

Molang
MyXGamer
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 01:03:00 -
[205] - Quote
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:Molang wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Molang wrote:Token care bear speaking
years ago I used to mine for my bread. Man am I glad I got out of the business. small profits, more dangerous than lvl 4 missions,
Yup, my 2 Billion a week with mining, PI, Missions, and Manufacturing BY MYSELF (we are all independent in Corp) and a few other odds and ends, is just so pathetic. You have no clue what you speak of TBH. Your quote of 2 billion a week is about right for a solo character doing all of those things. however the point was not that you could make a ton while incorporating mining, but that manufacturing, market trading, and mission running, make more per hour in hisec than mining. Oh and you really should tool up to do research agents. Your missing out on easy isk yo Not for long
I know right! they are about to nerf research agents. Oh how I will miss the free ISK. |

Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 11:30:00 -
[206] - Quote
Molang wrote:, make more per hour in hisec than mining.
Oh and you really should tool up to do research agents. Your missing out on easy isk yo
YOU need to read a few DevBlogs and Forums as there is a BIG surprise coming your way May 22. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |

Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
816
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 12:30:00 -
[207] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote: whats next kittenageddon?
THIS sounds too adorable. The mental imagery is fantastic.
Nothing's funner than a HexBug and a box-o-kittens. "Every other expansion has catered to the pew-pew need for more things to blow up; to more public cries of, "see how valuable I am!" - anon-á "You have to understand that the human ego will do whatever it takes to get attention because it needs to know that it exists." -- RuPaul |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 12:51:00 -
[208] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:Special olympics of PvP you are all winners! whats next kittenageddon? bunnyageddon? ibisageddon?
Rokhageddon! That should be entertaining. |

Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 12:56:00 -
[209] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:EvEa Deva wrote:Special olympics of PvP you are all winners! whats next kittenageddon? bunnyageddon? ibisageddon? Rokhageddon! That should be entertaining.
There aren't enough of that useless ship around. Mine is only good for Gas Cloud Mining tbh since it can fit 5 turrets and has ok Cargo. That's it. Really. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 13:01:00 -
[210] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:There aren't enough of that useless ship around. Mine is only good for Gas Cloud Mining tbh since it can fit 5 turrets and has ok Cargo. That's it. Really.
No. You need around 1bil worth of Tornadoes with T2 to gank one in 1.0. Hence entertaining. |
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