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kelly D	Posted - 2009.03.27 00:39:00 - [1] ive been hearing alot of talk about nerfing the falcon and modifying the ew ships for caldari... this i dont understand. why would u want to nerf something that works perfectly fine and is still able to be countered very simply. ive heard alot of arguments over this but perhaps il let the forum do the talking. tell me ur opinions about he falcon why u think it needs to be nerfed and why not. personally everything in game can be countered very simply. if ur not willing to modify ur style to it or change the way u play against it due to it, then gb2wow. eitehr way tell me what u guys think about all this hoopla
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.27 00:40:00 - [2] Because people are to lazy to adapt and just find whining long enough to get a nerf is easier.
lol sup	Posted - 2009.03.27 00:42:00 - [3] hmm
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2009.03.27 02:16:00 - [4] Edited by: Sebea on 27/03/2009 02:16:14 Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Because everybody and their brother is training up a damn falcon alt, showing with simple statistics that the ship is obviously overpowered and flawed in some way Fixed that for you.
Laodamia	Posted - 2009.03.27 02:27:00 - [5] It goes back to the duality of adapt or die concept so many eve players spout off in nerf/buff threads. Basically, if something is overpowered you are required to whine about it until it gets nerfed. If something is underpowered you are required to say "adapt or die!" or the alternate "gb2wow." This is done to ensure all players get to enjoy their game in such a way that they will never have to think outside the box in a fight, only fit tank/gank and pew pew till someone dies. Hope this helps, in the future remember the rules when posting about nerfs.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.27 02:32:00 - [6] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 27/03/2009 02:32:45 Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Because everybody and their brother is training up a damn falcon alt, showing with simple statistics that the ship is obviously overpowered and flawed in some way Fixed that for you. This. Applying 'Adapt or Die' in every situation implies the game can never be unbalanced. In which case, please give me an I-Win button, and get on with adapting to it. - DesuSigs
Trader20	Posted - 2009.03.27 02:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Sebea Edited by: Sebea on 27/03/2009 02:16:14 Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Because everybody and their brother cries like a little b*tch everytime they get pwnd so they blame it on a ship being op when the real problem is that they suck at pvp Fixed that for you. Fixed that for you.
Cyhawk	Posted - 2009.03.27 03:02:00 - [8] Sigh, im being trolled... I currently fly all 4 races, Recon 5, etc etc etc. (Im not a cap ship pilot, and dont use BSs, so yeah) So lets go down the list and see how many targets each recon can lock down. (Fleet compared only) Falcon: 6x ECM normally fit (If you dont fit 6, you suck) Takes about between 3-4 Targets, up to 5 if they suck. Arazu: 3x SDs (4 max, due to Warp Dist normally) Lock down: 1 target, MAYBE 2 if at high range Rapier: 2x Webs, One target. (Though they can actually do damage so.. its ok) Pilgrim: Plenty of Nos/Neut, no more than 1 single target (However it can solo BSs, so take that into account) See the imbalance now? Also, lets go over the drawbacks/effectiveness, * ECM: None 150km range, target cannot target for 20 seconds. (a lifetime in most pvp) * SD: Max 60km range (useless in falloff) Still can target up to 10km * Webs: 40km range, Nano is pretty much gone now.. doesn't prevent attacking * Pilgrim: 20/40km Close range required, NOS has limits, Heavy cap usage. Which one do you choose? Yeah. Ok so you say fit an ECCM? Well, multiple issues.. first they dont help much, I can still jam with ease. (Unless its another recon, then its a pain, theres a tip in that statement) Im not so much for nerfing the Falcon (slghtly would be nice) but more for boosting the others. Recons should be force multipliers, and right now, the other 3 fail. (Rapier still has a mind effect, it works)
kelly D	Posted - 2009.03.27 03:29:00 - [9] all i gotta say is this nerf shouldnt happen. falcon is sued to jam to stop u from dmg to otehr members or from repping but u can still overpower it with 2 eccm either way its very possibleto adapt to counter it, none the less falcon jams u so u cant do dmg, arazu holds u so u cant go anywheres, most typicaly from what i use mine for (gate tackling when a ship jumps out through a gate at ranges out of the range of normal Disrupter IIs , rappier has its role aswell as the curse has its role and ppl wouldn't fly them if they sucked compared to the falcon. ppl would jst fly falcons woudlnt they? is it so strange to not have a falcon in ur squad seems jst reasonable to have a falcon aswell as other recons. they all have a role and purpose. why nerf it? jst bc everyone wants to fly one makes it needed to be nerfed? or fleets of falcons well if u use large ammounts of any type of ship ur gonna slaughter usualy: example thorax vs bob in allaince tornament (worked well did it not) im jsut puzzled as to why a nerf would take place if ur just unwilling to counter it, like the speed nerf rappiers werent nerfed were they speed was but dang they really shut donw nano's is it so wrong to then think along the same lines. instead of nerf... boost ships sensor strenght instead...... ????? not trolling jst bounceing this off as an idea, dont like it dont read it. (eve rule 101 lazy ppl always win in the long run whent hey call the waaannnmmbulance)
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.03.27 03:53:00 - [10] I think people should just start equipping bursts on their ships instead of ECCM. That way if a falcon locks you out you just burst burst burst until the tackler loses lock and skedaddle on out of there. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
kelly D	Posted - 2009.03.27 04:16:00 - [11] true butthe burst has limited range. typicaly for anti falcon get an arazu with eccm in the midds and drones and what not warp to teh falcon or probe it when its jamming and uncloaked scram it point it and poof, no more falcon, like i said easy to counter jst takes a brain. can be done with almost anyship hell even an interceptor storming after one or having an alt decloak beside one and inty warp to it by by falcon or at least it warps away ..... problem solved.
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.27 04:20:00 - [12] Falcon wouldn't be so overpowered if people didn't fit 2x or 3x SDA that give it 20% more jammer strength. It is the combination of ship bonuses and those jammer strength mods that makes for a killer combo. And there's no reason to waste slots on tanking (usually fit 1 1600mm plate or 1 large extender) at 100-150 km ranges, not much risk. There's really no doubt that Falcon is way out of line when compared specifically with other recons
CryHarder	Posted - 2009.03.27 04:36:00 - [13] As someone who has trained all their ECM & Recon skills to V over a year ago, I welcome our newly gimped Falcon. Nothing will really change, just range issues which should have been dealth with long ago. On a side note, a falcon's best nemesis is a ship that can get in range and dampen its targeting/jamming ability.
kelly D	Posted - 2009.03.27 04:55:00 - [14] aka an arazu. with sensor boosters resolution scripts for faster locks, silly falcon. tons of ways around it. but i do agree.. i do anticipate the nerf to be exciting. :)
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.27 05:05:00 - [15] I look forward to this nerf. Personally I see falcons still be used in small sized gangs, mostly recon gangs, as support. Larger gangs will start using rooks instead, which is at least a target that won't cloak up. And pirates will start using scoprions alot.
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2009.03.27 05:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Cyhawk Sigh, im being trolled... I currently fly all 4 races, Recon 5, etc etc etc. (Im not a cap ship pilot, and dont use BSs, so yeah) So lets go down the list and see how many targets each recon can lock down. (Fleet compared only) Falcon: 6x ECM normally fit (If you dont fit 6, you suck) Takes about between 3-4 Targets, up to 5 if they suck. Arazu: 3x SDs (4 max, due to Warp Dist normally) Lock down: 1 target, MAYBE 2 if at high range Rapier: 2x Webs, One target. (Though they can actually do damage so.. its ok) Pilgrim: Plenty of Nos/Neut, no more than 1 single target (However it can solo BSs, so take that into account) See the imbalance now? Also, lets go over the drawbacks/effectiveness, * ECM: None 150km range, target cannot target for 20 seconds. (a lifetime in most pvp) * SD: Max 60km range (useless in falloff) Still can target up to 10km * Webs: 40km range, Nano is pretty much gone now.. doesn't prevent attacking * Pilgrim: 20/40km Close range required, NOS has limits, Heavy cap usage. Which one do you choose? Yeah. Ok so you say fit an ECCM? Well, multiple issues.. first they dont help much, I can still jam with ease. (Unless its another recon, then its a pain, theres a tip in that statement) Im not so much for nerfing the Falcon (slghtly would be nice) but more for boosting the others. Recons should be force multipliers, and right now, the other 3 fail. (Rapier still has a mind effect, it works) This honestly. Boost the others, slight nerf to falcon range; I'd say being able to jam from around 150km with very good skills should be the roof for it. I disagree on one account though. ECCM does work; most people just refuse to fit it. And when they do fit it, it doesn't make them invincible to ECM 100% of the time, they die, and say its useless. Remember, ECM is chance based whereas the others always work, but have diminishing results. And a couple sniper fit ships to support your gang or your own ECM really isn't a huge hassel to counter something you deem such a threat. Tracking disruptors actually work very nicely; sensor damps need a boost and the ships themselves need boosts. Falcon range slight nerf but making it a "close range brawler" is just silly.
Grek Forto Malevolent Intentions Dark Solar Empire	Posted - 2009.03.27 07:38:00 - [17] I am training Arazu, halp.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.27 09:05:00 - [18] Originally by: TimMc I look forward to this nerf. Personally I see falcons still be used in small sized gangs, mostly recon gangs, as support. Larger gangs will start using rooks instead, which is at least a target that won't cloak up. And pirates will start using scoprions alot. This. This nerf will make whiners happier. So look for another object to spam forums, it is getting really annoying to see the number of threads about one and the same "issue" which will be fixed already. Tank & gank pvp is back, move on, nothing to see here. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.03.27 09:14:00 - [19] If every one/alt starts to use a certain tactic/ship then it's probably overpowered, and yes I have one. Self-proclaimed idiot
Jek Tar'qul Gallente Ferrum Superum	Posted - 2009.03.27 10:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: Sebea Edited by: Sebea on 27/03/2009 02:16:14 Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII They have a giant nerf bat at CCP, this time its EWARs turn to get a little love, like nanos, blasters, NOS, drone bandwidth, webs, and drone tracking just to name a few. So, its your turn to get a wack with the bat suckers! Fixed that for you. Fixed that for you. UBER FIXING QUOTE!
Stabby McKnife	Posted - 2009.03.27 14:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Jek Tar'qul GIVE ME ATTENTION! Fixed.
Jek Tar'qul Gallente Ferrum Superum	Posted - 2009.03.28 03:01:00 - [22] Edited by: Jek Tar''qul on 28/03/2009 03:01:29 Originally by: Stabby McKnife Im a mean, bitter, old troll who po*ps my pants and feels inadequate, so I pick on everyone and make their feelings hurt. Fixed.
Klyde The Nightshift Rough Necks	Posted - 2009.03.28 03:25:00 - [23] Comparing recons with each other is really not a good idea, each race has recons to do different jobs. All recons ships except the falcon are close to mid range (mostly mid). If you use a falcon in those situations,it gets owned since it is not a close to mid range ship. Recons are not really made for solo play (though in the right situation some can),they are made to do a roll in group/fleet. As i said in another thread, the falcon is fine at its role, ppl just need to learn how to counter it.

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