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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2004.08.20 19:44:00 -
[1]
It is a fact that big and small corps alike have special divisions with armies of alts occupying each key station and rising buy prices on T2 components hourly, if not even more often than that.
Due to scarcity of spoken components and the fact that only highest price buys, this is inevitable for this sort of things to happen.
Ironically, this is not the reason behind T2 components price hike (or rather not the whole reason) as people working this way are professionals and raise only by ~1 ISK over current highest price.
The real reason are amateurs or, if you wish, impulsive people who think that if they raise 10k component by 5k they will buy whole load of them... They can't be further from truth. Since you can't manufacture T2 stuff without spoken parts, everybody will keep on rising prices. ALL COST will get, yet again, shifted onto customers causing constant rise in prices...
Of course, on the flip side of this coin, CCP miserably failed to balance supply of components to actual demand... And this only gets worse and worse every day with new items introduced to R&D agents.
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BTW, I am manufacturer of 7 different T2 items right now as well as daily agent runner. Agents drop seriously low amounts of spoken parts...
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Please discuss.
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2004.08.20 19:44:00 -
[2]
It is a fact that big and small corps alike have special divisions with armies of alts occupying each key station and rising buy prices on T2 components hourly, if not even more often than that.
Due to scarcity of spoken components and the fact that only highest price buys, this is inevitable for this sort of things to happen.
Ironically, this is not the reason behind T2 components price hike (or rather not the whole reason) as people working this way are professionals and raise only by ~1 ISK over current highest price.
The real reason are amateurs or, if you wish, impulsive people who think that if they raise 10k component by 5k they will buy whole load of them... They can't be further from truth. Since you can't manufacture T2 stuff without spoken parts, everybody will keep on rising prices. ALL COST will get, yet again, shifted onto customers causing constant rise in prices...
Of course, on the flip side of this coin, CCP miserably failed to balance supply of components to actual demand... And this only gets worse and worse every day with new items introduced to R&D agents.
---------------
BTW, I am manufacturer of 7 different T2 items right now as well as daily agent runner. Agents drop seriously low amounts of spoken parts...
---------------
Please discuss.
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Vladimir Illyvich
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Posted - 2004.08.20 19:54:00 -
[3]
I think t2 components are in limited supply simply because t2 items are intended to be 'elite' aka money-sinks.
Obviously the prices havent risen to far, since I assume your t2 items are still selling.
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Vladimir Illyvich
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Posted - 2004.08.20 19:54:00 -
[4]
I think t2 components are in limited supply simply because t2 items are intended to be 'elite' aka money-sinks.
Obviously the prices havent risen to far, since I assume your t2 items are still selling.
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Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.08.20 21:11:00 -
[5]
tech2 is made by players and the conponets and bps are given out free, in no way can you define tech2 as a money sink, if they made tech2 conponets avaiable on the market like trade goods, that would be a money sink
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.08.20 21:11:00 -
[6]
tech2 is made by players and the conponets and bps are given out free, in no way can you define tech2 as a money sink, if they made tech2 conponets avaiable on the market like trade goods, that would be a money sink
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Naal Morno
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Posted - 2004.08.21 06:57:00 -
[7]
T2 components can't be called money sinks as they merely are used in inter player trade. If they were sold by NPC corporations (maybe this is the way to do it partially...), then they would be money sinks as they would actually remove money from game...
Anyway, that wasn't my point. I think what I wanted to start discussing in proportion of components obtainable from agents vs demand for them... I think everyone can safely say that constant rise in prices on these is the best proof of this relation to be failing somewhere along Agents-Manufacturer line. Most would just agree there is not enough components given out but I have suspicion that major stockpiling might play a role here too.
Also, organized groups of people camping all agent runners hot spots and constant monitoring/rising buy order prices on components used in current manufacturing processes greatly contributes to overall T2 components hiper-mega-inflation...
A
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2004.08.21 06:57:00 -
[8]
T2 components can't be called money sinks as they merely are used in inter player trade. If they were sold by NPC corporations (maybe this is the way to do it partially...), then they would be money sinks as they would actually remove money from game...
Anyway, that wasn't my point. I think what I wanted to start discussing in proportion of components obtainable from agents vs demand for them... I think everyone can safely say that constant rise in prices on these is the best proof of this relation to be failing somewhere along Agents-Manufacturer line. Most would just agree there is not enough components given out but I have suspicion that major stockpiling might play a role here too.
Also, organized groups of people camping all agent runners hot spots and constant monitoring/rising buy order prices on components used in current manufacturing processes greatly contributes to overall T2 components hiper-mega-inflation...
A
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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vixit
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Posted - 2004.08.21 07:19:00 -
[9]
T2 Components are not Rare, they are made by NPC corporations just do them issions for them and voila, T2 Components -> so get to work if you want them.
PS: selling them is worthwhile 
The missionrunningman 
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vixit
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Posted - 2004.08.21 07:19:00 -
[10]
T2 Components are not Rare, they are made by NPC corporations just do them issions for them and voila, T2 Components -> so get to work if you want them.
PS: selling them is worthwhile
The missionrunningman
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.08.22 10:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 22/08/2004 10:54:25
 Originally by: Naal Morno
Ironically, this is not the reason behind T2 components price hike (or rather not the whole reason) as people working this way are professionals and raise only by ~1 ISK over current highest price.
*slaps with a wet towel*
There is those of us that dont want to play the "raise buy orders 1 isk at a time game" and thus, we up the price 5k,10k, 20k, whatever....
If you cant compete, bad for you. The end price of the product its the customers that have to pay for anyways. I adjust my prices after what I had to give for the components, hence some weeks I got cheaper products than others. Profit level is keept the same.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.08.22 10:52:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 22/08/2004 10:54:25
Originally by: Naal Morno
Ironically, this is not the reason behind T2 components price hike (or rather not the whole reason) as people working this way are professionals and raise only by ~1 ISK over current highest price.
*slaps with a wet towel*
There is those of us that dont want to play the "raise buy orders 1 isk at a time game" and thus, we up the price 5k,10k, 20k, whatever....
If you cant compete, bad for you. The end price of the product its the customers that have to pay for anyways. I adjust my prices after what I had to give for the components, hence some weeks I got cheaper products than others. Profit level is keept the same.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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GreyMana
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Posted - 2004.08.22 14:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Naal Morno
I think what I wanted to start discussing in proportion of components obtainable from agents vs demand for them... I think everyone can safely say that constant rise in prices on these is the best proof of this relation to be failing somewhere along Agents-Manufacturer line. Most would just agree there is not enough components given out but I have suspicion that major stockpiling might play a role here too.
I'm running since castor for Lai Dai and I've gotten tons of Construction Components - at least I always thought that. After about 9 month I done thousands of missions (Lai Dai standing is up to 10.0) and I can build 10 lousy interceptors. So I have to agree that the agents don't give out sufficent components. IMHO they should cut down the component requirements of Tech 2 stuff by 5 to 10.
Another flaw in the agent-gives-out strategy is that many agent runners are scientist. They need to build up a good standing to begin research at a good agent. Until now I haven't any tech 2 BPO, and why should I sell my components when I might have a use for them in 1-2 years.
On the other hand this ensures that Tech 2 items stays "elite".
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GreyMana
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Posted - 2004.08.22 14:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Naal Morno
I think what I wanted to start discussing in proportion of components obtainable from agents vs demand for them... I think everyone can safely say that constant rise in prices on these is the best proof of this relation to be failing somewhere along Agents-Manufacturer line. Most would just agree there is not enough components given out but I have suspicion that major stockpiling might play a role here too.
I'm running since castor for Lai Dai and I've gotten tons of Construction Components - at least I always thought that. After about 9 month I done thousands of missions (Lai Dai standing is up to 10.0) and I can build 10 lousy interceptors. So I have to agree that the agents don't give out sufficent components. IMHO they should cut down the component requirements of Tech 2 stuff by 5 to 10.
Another flaw in the agent-gives-out strategy is that many agent runners are scientist. They need to build up a good standing to begin research at a good agent. Until now I haven't any tech 2 BPO, and why should I sell my components when I might have a use for them in 1-2 years.
On the other hand this ensures that Tech 2 items stays "elite".
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Finraer
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:39:00 -
[15]
They seem to have reduced the drop rate a hell of a lot. I run agent missions for two agents and probably do an average of 10 missions per day. A few months ago, I was getting plenty of components and in the last three weeks have had 2, yes 2, missions that gave components.
Luckily one of those was Grav thrusters so I was a happy bunny, but thats not my point.
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Finraer
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:39:00 -
[16]
They seem to have reduced the drop rate a hell of a lot. I run agent missions for two agents and probably do an average of 10 missions per day. A few months ago, I was getting plenty of components and in the last three weeks have had 2, yes 2, missions that gave components.
Luckily one of those was Grav thrusters so I was a happy bunny, but thats not my point.
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Wulfnor
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Posted - 2004.08.22 22:33:00 -
[17]
Naal I have to agree those who say 5k is more of a time saver than anything else. Buying parts in 15 regions does not leave me the leisure to increment at the same pace as I would if I were concentrating on one region.
As for the seemingly low amounts of components I am not clear on what exactly is happening. Certainly one reason has to be the lopsided requirements the released BPOs have. That is to say if ABs used ion thrusters and no other thrusters were required for the other BPs out then the price of ion thrusters will simply rise and rise while the prices for the other thrusters will rise slowly.
Other reasons such as the game design decision to leave laser focusing crystals and graviton reactor units composed of mega and zydrine, influenced the rapid rise of graviton prices and I am sure will do the same to laser focusing crystals once the laser BPOs come out. Why CCP has chosen to slow the introduction of caldari ships and lasers in this manner is unclear but it is a fact.
Another factor is the "expert" view that certain ships are better than others has a big impact as well. The fact is I can buy 2 or 3 minmatar interceptors for what I would have to spend on one minmatar interceptors.
Oddly enough BYOC can contribute this by people snapping up items that might otherwise have been sold to long term buyers. For instance you leave your graviton reactor units on the market for 250k for three months thinking if they sell great if not np. At some point in that three months I am sure some people decide they need the isk right away and they sell to those with buy order for say 155k. BYOC people buy at 250k and so those items do not sell to long term buyers.
Finally the number of mission runners might be lower and or the amount of components per mission might be down. Tough for us players to tell that in any sort of objective way. It does seems that way those from my own expierience.
On the one hand I am dismayed that the components market seems to be troubled on the other hand I am encouraged that there are a number of factors that can contribute to market fluctuations. When CCP moves to change things they will have many things they can make small changes to rather than sledgehammer their way through the issue.
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Wulfnor
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Posted - 2004.08.22 22:33:00 -
[18]
Naal I have to agree those who say 5k is more of a time saver than anything else. Buying parts in 15 regions does not leave me the leisure to increment at the same pace as I would if I were concentrating on one region.
As for the seemingly low amounts of components I am not clear on what exactly is happening. Certainly one reason has to be the lopsided requirements the released BPOs have. That is to say if ABs used ion thrusters and no other thrusters were required for the other BPs out then the price of ion thrusters will simply rise and rise while the prices for the other thrusters will rise slowly.
Other reasons such as the game design decision to leave laser focusing crystals and graviton reactor units composed of mega and zydrine, influenced the rapid rise of graviton prices and I am sure will do the same to laser focusing crystals once the laser BPOs come out. Why CCP has chosen to slow the introduction of caldari ships and lasers in this manner is unclear but it is a fact.
Another factor is the "expert" view that certain ships are better than others has a big impact as well. The fact is I can buy 2 or 3 minmatar interceptors for what I would have to spend on one minmatar interceptors.
Oddly enough BYOC can contribute this by people snapping up items that might otherwise have been sold to long term buyers. For instance you leave your graviton reactor units on the market for 250k for three months thinking if they sell great if not np. At some point in that three months I am sure some people decide they need the isk right away and they sell to those with buy order for say 155k. BYOC people buy at 250k and so those items do not sell to long term buyers.
Finally the number of mission runners might be lower and or the amount of components per mission might be down. Tough for us players to tell that in any sort of objective way. It does seems that way those from my own expierience.
On the one hand I am dismayed that the components market seems to be troubled on the other hand I am encouraged that there are a number of factors that can contribute to market fluctuations. When CCP moves to change things they will have many things they can make small changes to rather than sledgehammer their way through the issue.
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.23 14:14:00 -
[19]
Not to mention people who hoard them like me And no you can't have mine....
You may ask "Why do you hoarde them? "...."Because I will build all my own Ceptors for ME"... or any other T2 Ship I may want....
So, think about how many other accounts out of the 10,800 I saw logged in this weekend...are thinking the same thing as me..."I will build T2 Sooner or later"
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.23 14:14:00 -
[20]
Not to mention people who hoard them like me And no you can't have mine....
You may ask "Why do you hoarde them? "...."Because I will build all my own Ceptors for ME"... or any other T2 Ship I may want....
So, think about how many other accounts out of the 10,800 I saw logged in this weekend...are thinking the same thing as me..."I will build T2 Sooner or later"
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Cairhien
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Posted - 2004.08.24 22:17:00 -
[21]
My lvl 2 agents drop more T2 items than my lvl 3 by a long ways.
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Cairhien
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Posted - 2004.08.24 22:17:00 -
[22]
My lvl 2 agents drop more T2 items than my lvl 3 by a long ways.
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Calleb
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Posted - 2004.08.25 14:19:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Calleb on 25/08/2004 14:21:05
IMO i think that the supply of components is being purposefully limited to limit the number of elite ships available. I do missions but still get no where near enough components to mantain consistent manufacture of tec 2 items.
One thing that causes a problem is that because the component issued is random - it never seems to be a component that is any use to you. Over the time that i have been doing missions i have recieved many more gallente and minmatar construction components than amarr even though i run missions for amarr corps. I am then guilty, as alot of other poeple probably are, of hoarding these components in case i might need them in the future. Then when i get amarr components it's usually nanoelectrical microprocessors of which i have hundreds.
Maybe it could be set that the agent offers a choice of components (based on the average component price)to the agent runner to give the player more chance to get the components that will be of use to him/her for manufacture rather than for hoarding away. 
P.S. I have actually recieved some radar sensor clusters from my agent only yesterday so its not all bad news
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Calleb
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Posted - 2004.08.25 14:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Calleb on 25/08/2004 14:21:05
IMO i think that the supply of components is being purposefully limited to limit the number of elite ships available. I do missions but still get no where near enough components to mantain consistent manufacture of tec 2 items.
One thing that causes a problem is that because the component issued is random - it never seems to be a component that is any use to you. Over the time that i have been doing missions i have recieved many more gallente and minmatar construction components than amarr even though i run missions for amarr corps. I am then guilty, as alot of other poeple probably are, of hoarding these components in case i might need them in the future. Then when i get amarr components it's usually nanoelectrical microprocessors of which i have hundreds.
Maybe it could be set that the agent offers a choice of components (based on the average component price)to the agent runner to give the player more chance to get the components that will be of use to him/her for manufacture rather than for hoarding away.
P.S. I have actually recieved some radar sensor clusters from my agent only yesterday so its not all bad news
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.25 15:03:00 -
[25]
Adding on here....Another very simple reason, not mentioned...
MORE T2 has been introduced...(assault frigs, cloaks, covert ops, etc.) causing more Comp. usage...thus putting a strain on the Comp's available....
Just think about when T2 Cruisers are introduced...and how many comps. they will require  and the prices they will sell for....
My opinion right now...Hoarde them for Corp/Personal Use ...or hoarde them and sell them in Auction....
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.25 15:03:00 -
[26]
Adding on here....Another very simple reason, not mentioned...
MORE T2 has been introduced...(assault frigs, cloaks, covert ops, etc.) causing more Comp. usage...thus putting a strain on the Comp's available....
Just think about when T2 Cruisers are introduced...and how many comps. they will require and the prices they will sell for....
My opinion right now...Hoarde them for Corp/Personal Use ...or hoarde them and sell them in Auction....
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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2004.08.28 04:30:00 -
[27]
Thanks for replies and opinions.
Everyone has a valid point from their own perspective and I respect them all.
As to rising prices by 10k: I have no choice but immediately counter these with 1isk over... I either get these scarce components or I am out of game... From here there is only way forward, overbidding each other to no end but this is not the way it should be. CCP should finally take some steps to fix the situation in this respect, eg. more components drops or lesser prints requirements.
Now if agent runner will counter this with saying "I will not make as much money!", sorry but you're mistaken. You will get the same amount of ISKs in general, just more compoenents will be given out which will sell for a bit less. I am sure all manufacturers will still like to have 10k stacks of each component in their hangars
Another argument about limiting production by limiting components. Sorry, I haven't seen a single T2 BPO (well, besides two plates I have I would never sell a single item made anyway) sitting idle with no components available for it! Moreover, if it was CCP's intention to limit production they should have had drop 1 print each and problem solved
This is huuuuge problem today and getting bigger and bigger...
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Naal Morno
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Posted - 2004.08.28 04:30:00 -
[28]
Thanks for replies and opinions.
Everyone has a valid point from their own perspective and I respect them all.
As to rising prices by 10k: I have no choice but immediately counter these with 1isk over... I either get these scarce components or I am out of game... From here there is only way forward, overbidding each other to no end but this is not the way it should be. CCP should finally take some steps to fix the situation in this respect, eg. more components drops or lesser prints requirements.
Now if agent runner will counter this with saying "I will not make as much money!", sorry but you're mistaken. You will get the same amount of ISKs in general, just more compoenents will be given out which will sell for a bit less. I am sure all manufacturers will still like to have 10k stacks of each component in their hangars
Another argument about limiting production by limiting components. Sorry, I haven't seen a single T2 BPO (well, besides two plates I have I would never sell a single item made anyway) sitting idle with no components available for it! Moreover, if it was CCP's intention to limit production they should have had drop 1 print each and problem solved
This is huuuuge problem today and getting bigger and bigger...
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.08.28 10:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Naal Morno
Thanks for replies and opinions.
Everyone has a valid point from their own perspective and I respect them all.
As to rising prices by 10k: I have no choice but immediately counter these with 1isk over... I either get these scarce components or I am out of game... From here there is only way forward, overbidding each other to no end but this is not the way it should be.
Ever thought about match the price of others rather than start overbidding? There is room for builders to co exist without kill each other in price wars you know. People that keep overbid with 1 isk at a time, is very frusterating, and I have to addmit I have raised component prices (buy orders so high), with no real intentions of buying them just so the one who keep raise with 1 isk at a time suffer from it, mean? maybe. But there is always the option to match other's buy orders
Kind of same applies when selling, there is no need to keep undercut each other when selling t2 items, just contact your competition in the area, and come to an agreement of a common price to use, there is room for all
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.08.28 10:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Naal Morno
Thanks for replies and opinions.
Everyone has a valid point from their own perspective and I respect them all.
As to rising prices by 10k: I have no choice but immediately counter these with 1isk over... I either get these scarce components or I am out of game... From here there is only way forward, overbidding each other to no end but this is not the way it should be.
Ever thought about match the price of others rather than start overbidding? There is room for builders to co exist without kill each other in price wars you know. People that keep overbid with 1 isk at a time, is very frusterating, and I have to addmit I have raised component prices (buy orders so high), with no real intentions of buying them just so the one who keep raise with 1 isk at a time suffer from it, mean? maybe. But there is always the option to match other's buy orders
Kind of same applies when selling, there is no need to keep undercut each other when selling t2 items, just contact your competition in the area, and come to an agreement of a common price to use, there is room for all
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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