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Celticjim
   |
Posted - 2004.08.20 23:20:00 -
[1]
How are you finding the projectiles after all the skills are trained to lvl 5?
Is the damage still relatively light in comparison to other weaponry types, or does it appear to start levelling up?
Curious as I am finally approaching my last lvl 5 skill, and have been doing mounds of reading on the tracking/dmg output on Projectiles. My thought is with the additional skill training, they might become somewhat viable.
Responses appreciated. I am trying to map out my character and would like to know if this will help.
Thanks
CJ
|
Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.20 23:20:00 -
[2]
How are you finding the projectiles after all the skills are trained to lvl 5?
Is the damage still relatively light in comparison to other weaponry types, or does it appear to start levelling up?
Curious as I am finally approaching my last lvl 5 skill, and have been doing mounds of reading on the tracking/dmg output on Projectiles. My thought is with the additional skill training, they might become somewhat viable.
Responses appreciated. I am trying to map out my character and would like to know if this will help.
Thanks
CJ
|
Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.20 23:33:00 -
[3]
Large Lasers and Hybrids are viable at lvl 3, Large Proj at lvl 4 can't even compare to cruiser sized and some frigate sized guns at their easy to train level 4 skill. Level 5 Large Projectiles still suck even with Lvl 5 on the other skills like trajectory analysis, surgical strike and rapid firing at lvl 5. Only ship that becomes somewhat less of an asshat is the Tempest because of its bonus. Typhoon is still an utter waste with Large projectiles because the guns outgrow the ships targeting range at lvl 4. ACs are for the fool when you can mount 4 neutron blasters and get better damage for the money. When TomB brings them up to par then they will be viable.
-----
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.20 23:33:00 -
[4]
Large Lasers and Hybrids are viable at lvl 3, Large Proj at lvl 4 can't even compare to cruiser sized and some frigate sized guns at their easy to train level 4 skill. Level 5 Large Projectiles still suck even with Lvl 5 on the other skills like trajectory analysis, surgical strike and rapid firing at lvl 5. Only ship that becomes somewhat less of an asshat is the Tempest because of its bonus. Typhoon is still an utter waste with Large projectiles because the guns outgrow the ships targeting range at lvl 4. ACs are for the fool when you can mount 4 neutron blasters and get better damage for the money. When TomB brings them up to par then they will be viable.
-----
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.20 23:56:00 -
[5]
i got Minmatar BS lvl 5
got L projektile lvl 5
motion prediction, surgical p00 and other suplementary skills at lvl 4 or 5
then i got Conorolled burst at lvl 2 and Large energy weapons at lvl 3
and gues what im using in my typhoon 
-------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 23:56:00 -
[6]
i got Minmatar BS lvl 5
got L projektile lvl 5
motion prediction, surgical p00 and other suplementary skills at lvl 4 or 5
then i got Conorolled burst at lvl 2 and Large energy weapons at lvl 3
and gues what im using in my typhoon
-------------------------------------------
|
Kashre
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 01:01:00 -
[7]
I second Kaylona... the tempst Im ok with having level 4 in all the relavent skills... although you can barely take an armageddeon 1 on 1 with 1400's with those skills and you cant take an apoc (or I cant take an apoc) without a bunch of named autocannons cause of their armor tanking... but the phoon is pretty useless for any kind of 1 on 1 situation regardless of your projectile skills.
Doesnt mean its totally useless... for everything, just hunting NPCs and going toe to toe with the bad guys.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Kashre
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 01:01:00 -
[8]
I second Kaylona... the tempst Im ok with having level 4 in all the relavent skills... although you can barely take an armageddeon 1 on 1 with 1400's with those skills and you cant take an apoc (or I cant take an apoc) without a bunch of named autocannons cause of their armor tanking... but the phoon is pretty useless for any kind of 1 on 1 situation regardless of your projectile skills.
Doesnt mean its totally useless... for everything, just hunting NPCs and going toe to toe with the bad guys.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Selim
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 02:54:00 -
[9]
Laser, Hybrid or Missile skills at level 5 > Projectile skills at level 5. Poor me.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.21 02:54:00 -
[10]
Laser, Hybrid or Missile skills at level 5 > Projectile skills at level 5. Poor me.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.21 03:37:00 -
[11]
No the phoon isn't totally worthless. Like I said you can mount the hybrid blasters, the medium neutron blaster - named even, 3 siege and 1 rocket/w defenders and try to tank its armor. It can do damage but... thats a pretty much makes it a big thorax. Not that is a bad thing... but its not what makes me go MMMMMM especially with the righteous bonus it gets... but its targeting range makes it worthless with L proj.
-----
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.21 03:37:00 -
[12]
No the phoon isn't totally worthless. Like I said you can mount the hybrid blasters, the medium neutron blaster - named even, 3 siege and 1 rocket/w defenders and try to tank its armor. It can do damage but... thats a pretty much makes it a big thorax. Not that is a bad thing... but its not what makes me go MMMMMM especially with the righteous bonus it gets... but its targeting range makes it worthless with L proj.
-----
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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.08.21 04:42:00 -
[13]
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.08.21 04:42:00 -
[14]
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
|
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 05:27:00 -
[15]
 Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 05:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 07:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
My CEO with about 17mil SP is using a geddon with 7 mega pulses over his tempest with 6 1400mm because its at best a NPC hunter on par with a dominix. Quality of pilot arguments don't work here. Medium lasers and hybrids deal more DoT atm.
-----
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 07:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
My CEO with about 17mil SP is using a geddon with 7 mega pulses over his tempest with 6 1400mm because its at best a NPC hunter on par with a dominix. Quality of pilot arguments don't work here. Medium lasers and hybrids deal more DoT atm.
-----
|
Xiliath
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 08:36:00 -
[19]
Typhoons are not totally worthless, You can do good in one with a nice armor tank setup. i.e.
Hi: 2 - 425mm Autos(cruiser), 2 - Dual 425mm Autos, 4 - Seige Launchers.
Med: 4 named Cap chargers or Cap charger IIs.
Lows: 2 - Large Armor Repairers, 1 - Explosive armor hardener, 4 - Adaptive Nano armor hardeners.
(or remove 2 of the Adaptive nanos and use 2 Ballistic controllers)
|
Xiliath
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 08:36:00 -
[20]
Typhoons are not totally worthless, You can do good in one with a nice armor tank setup. i.e.
Hi: 2 - 425mm Autos(cruiser), 2 - Dual 425mm Autos, 4 - Seige Launchers.
Med: 4 named Cap chargers or Cap charger IIs.
Lows: 2 - Large Armor Repairers, 1 - Explosive armor hardener, 4 - Adaptive Nano armor hardeners.
(or remove 2 of the Adaptive nanos and use 2 Ballistic controllers)
|
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 09:16:00 -
[21]
well what sucks is that IN THEORY:
the 1400mm (tempest) does the same dmg as 425mm rails (mega) and tachyons (apoc) ...
... so if you fit a 1400mm on your apoc it will do up to 50% less dmg compared to your tachyon and the 425mm rail will do up to 25% less dmg as your tachyon ...
... so it wont matter at all that you do all sorts of dmg cuz no way in hell can you compensate for the -50% dot for a 1400mm or -25% dot with your rail ...
... on top of that many BS's pilots tank each of their resistances to the same level e.g. 50% em 55,5% therm 62,5% kinetic and 60% exp
since you cant switch to ONE SPECIFIC DMG TYPE WITH THE PROJECTILES (like missiles) I DONT SEE HOW THIS SHOULD HAVE ANY NOTICEABLE ADVANTAGE, ON TOP OF THAT IT HAS THE WORST TRACKING AND ON TOP OF THAT IT IS THE WORST GUN WIHTOUT THE SHIP BONUSES
Suggested lub for the projectile:
give the 1400mm a higher DMG modifier 6,25 instead of 5 (+25%)!!!!!!
exactly this would make it usefull again! I came to the conclusion that tracking isnt soo bad (well it is compared to the other weapons)
So what would we have:
Apoc with one tach I would do the same dmg as a typhoon with one 1400mm howitzer I and a dom or mega with 425 rails.
The Armageddon with one tach would do the same dmg as the tempest with one 1400mm but both would do more dmg as a dom or mega with 425mm rails ...
QUOTE FROM TOMB:
425mm rails have the highest dot for lange range guns ingame!
WRONG !!!!11111oneoneoneeleven
ONE TACH ON AN ARMA HAS A 25% HIGHER DOT AS A MEGA WITH ONE 425mm RAIL. AND THIS IS ON TQ!!!!!!!!!!
So lets assume we changed the dmg mod of the 1400mm howitzer I to 6,25 instead of 5 (+25%).
We would have what: a tempest with 6 1400mm compared to a mega with 7 425mm rails compared to an apoc with 8 tachs!!!
k the tempest could fit another 2 cruise launchers and the mega as well with some rcu's but they dont get any bonus.
... sounds overpowered? well dont forget the 1400mm still has the worst tracking!!!
And for all 425mm rail users out there: I suggest a raw +5% dmg mod boost as well ...
So in the end what do we have:
A railgun which is slightly more powerfull (5%) compared to an apoc with a tach. A tempest with one 1400mm which does as much dot as an arma with one tach. A phoon with one 1400mm which does as much dot as an apoc with one tach BUT the phoon has only 4 turret slots right!!!!! And overall the tempest with one 1400mm does more dot as an apoc with one tach or a mega with one 425mm rail.
And plz dont forget the the 1400mm rail WILL STILL HAVE THE WORST TRACKING AND WORST ROF which will prolly have quite an impact cuz
... if a 1400mm misses it does have way more of an impact on the dot as compared to a 425mm rail which has the highest rof!
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 09:16:00 -
[22]
well what sucks is that IN THEORY:
the 1400mm (tempest) does the same dmg as 425mm rails (mega) and tachyons (apoc) ...
... so if you fit a 1400mm on your apoc it will do up to 50% less dmg compared to your tachyon and the 425mm rail will do up to 25% less dmg as your tachyon ...
... so it wont matter at all that you do all sorts of dmg cuz no way in hell can you compensate for the -50% dot for a 1400mm or -25% dot with your rail ...
... on top of that many BS's pilots tank each of their resistances to the same level e.g. 50% em 55,5% therm 62,5% kinetic and 60% exp
since you cant switch to ONE SPECIFIC DMG TYPE WITH THE PROJECTILES (like missiles) I DONT SEE HOW THIS SHOULD HAVE ANY NOTICEABLE ADVANTAGE, ON TOP OF THAT IT HAS THE WORST TRACKING AND ON TOP OF THAT IT IS THE WORST GUN WIHTOUT THE SHIP BONUSES
Suggested lub for the projectile:
give the 1400mm a higher DMG modifier 6,25 instead of 5 (+25%)!!!!!!
exactly this would make it usefull again! I came to the conclusion that tracking isnt soo bad (well it is compared to the other weapons)
So what would we have:
Apoc with one tach I would do the same dmg as a typhoon with one 1400mm howitzer I and a dom or mega with 425 rails.
The Armageddon with one tach would do the same dmg as the tempest with one 1400mm but both would do more dmg as a dom or mega with 425mm rails ...
QUOTE FROM TOMB:
425mm rails have the highest dot for lange range guns ingame!
WRONG!!!!11111oneoneoneeleven
ONE TACH ON AN ARMA HAS A 25% HIGHER DOT AS A MEGA WITH ONE 425mm RAIL. AND THIS IS ON TQ!!!!!!!!!!
So lets assume we changed the dmg mod of the 1400mm howitzer I to 6,25 instead of 5 (+25%).
We would have what: a tempest with 6 1400mm compared to a mega with 7 425mm rails compared to an apoc with 8 tachs!!!
k the tempest could fit another 2 cruise launchers and the mega as well with some rcu's but they dont get any bonus.
... sounds overpowered? well dont forget the 1400mm still has the worst tracking!!!
And for all 425mm rail users out there: I suggest a raw +5% dmg mod boost as well ...
So in the end what do we have:
A railgun which is slightly more powerfull (5%) compared to an apoc with a tach. A tempest with one 1400mm which does as much dot as an arma with one tach. A phoon with one 1400mm which does as much dot as an apoc with one tach BUT the phoon has only 4 turret slots right!!!!! And overall the tempest with one 1400mm does more dot as an apoc with one tach or a mega with one 425mm rail.
And plz dont forget the the 1400mm rail WILL STILL HAVE THE WORST TRACKING AND WORST ROF which will prolly have quite an impact cuz
... if a 1400mm misses it does have way more of an impact on the dot as compared to a 425mm rail which has the highest rof!
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 09:20:00 -
[23]
ohohohohoh on top of the above post ...
... I forgot that the highest dmging projectile ammo (emp) does 4 points less dmg as a multi frequency crystal or anitmatter ammo!!!
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 09:20:00 -
[24]
ohohohohoh on top of the above post ...
... I forgot that the highest dmging projectile ammo (emp) does 4 points less dmg as a multi frequency crystal or anitmatter ammo!!!
Greetings Grim |
Sarinas
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 11:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
Bull. Siddy is an old pilot and he found he makes more damage on his Typhoon with energy guns and crappy/average energy turret skills than with proj turrets and optimized proj skills. It's a fact, it's got nothing to do with anything else. Projectile turrets suck right now, especially large ones.
---
I bring you joy,
I bring you pain,
I bring you some sunshine
And some rain. |
Sarinas
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 11:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
Bull. Siddy is an old pilot and he found he makes more damage on his Typhoon with energy guns and crappy/average energy turret skills than with proj turrets and optimized proj skills. It's a fact, it's got nothing to do with anything else. Projectile turrets suck right now, especially large ones.
---
I bring you joy,
I bring you pain,
I bring you some sunshine
And some rain. |
SwitchBl4d3
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 11:41:00 -
[27]
2 words close range, 2 more words transversal velocity.
learn how to use the second 2 words and u can conquer all.
"Teh lord of Nonni"
|
SwitchBl4d3
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 11:41:00 -
[28]
2 words close range, 2 more words transversal velocity.
learn how to use the second 2 words and u can conquer all.
"Teh lord of Nonni"
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 12:04:00 -
[29]
Hig:
4x Dual Havy pulse lasers (named)
3x Siegelaunchers
1x Missile defence (Defenders)
Med:
4x Cap recharger tech 2
Low:
3x Armor hardeners (Thermal/kinetick/Explosiv)
2x Cap power relays
1x Large repairer (named)
1x Medium repairer tech 2
this is my PVP
in PVE i swap sieges for heavylaunchers and strap in tachs and megapulses
works wonders on typhoon 
-------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 12:04:00 -
[30]
Hig:
4x Dual Havy pulse lasers (named)
3x Siegelaunchers
1x Missile defence (Defenders)
Med:
4x Cap recharger tech 2
Low:
3x Armor hardeners (Thermal/kinetick/Explosiv)
2x Cap power relays
1x Large repairer (named)
1x Medium repairer tech 2
this is my PVP
in PVE i swap sieges for heavylaunchers and strap in tachs and megapulses
works wonders on typhoon
-------------------------------------------
|
ZelRox
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 12:12:00 -
[31]
Edited by: ZelRox on 21/08/2004 14:22:42
Originally by: Xiliath
Typhoons are not totally worthless, You can do good in one with a nice armor tank setup. i.e.
Hi: 2 - 425mm Autos(cruiser), 2 - Dual 425mm Autos, 4 - Seige Launchers.
Med: 4 named Cap chargers or Cap charger IIs.
Lows: 2 - Large Armor Repairers, 1 - Explosive armor hardener, 4 - Adaptive Nano armor hardeners.
(or remove 2 of the Adaptive nanos and use 2 Ballistic controllers)
That wont work. You can tank a raven with this setup, but your gun damage output is way to low to justify mounting them.
----------------------
I wanna tuc tuc .. |
ZelRox
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 12:12:00 -
[32]
Edited by: ZelRox on 21/08/2004 14:22:42
Originally by: Xiliath
Typhoons are not totally worthless, You can do good in one with a nice armor tank setup. i.e.
Hi: 2 - 425mm Autos(cruiser), 2 - Dual 425mm Autos, 4 - Seige Launchers.
Med: 4 named Cap chargers or Cap charger IIs.
Lows: 2 - Large Armor Repairers, 1 - Explosive armor hardener, 4 - Adaptive Nano armor hardeners.
(or remove 2 of the Adaptive nanos and use 2 Ballistic controllers)
That wont work. You can tank a raven with this setup, but your gun damage output is way to low to justify mounting them.
----------------------
I wanna tuc tuc .. |
Noin
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 12:40:00 -
[33]
The only biggest problem when using projectiles is this:
I miss 3 times then I do a wrecking hit for 1000, then I miss 3 shots, then a wrecking hit for 900, then 3 misses etc.
The amount of misses and scratches, combined with the fact I have to reload after 10 or 11 shots (EMP/plasma ammo) lower my dot way, way , waaaay too much.
Thats the only problem.
|
Noin
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 12:40:00 -
[34]
The only biggest problem when using projectiles is this:
I miss 3 times then I do a wrecking hit for 1000, then I miss 3 shots, then a wrecking hit for 900, then 3 misses etc.
The amount of misses and scratches, combined with the fact I have to reload after 10 or 11 shots (EMP/plasma ammo) lower my dot way, way , waaaay too much.
Thats the only problem.
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 14:15:00 -
[35]
Im lvl 5 across the board... and i would fancy my chances against any BS 1v1 in a tempest... BUT not against a apoc ...
my other account uses a apoc, and its just insane. even though it only has 10mill skill points compared to my skills, it would still prob beat me:(.
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 14:15:00 -
[36]
Im lvl 5 across the board... and i would fancy my chances against any BS 1v1 in a tempest... BUT not against a apoc...
my other account uses a apoc, and its just insane. even though it only has 10mill skill points compared to my skills, it would still prob beat me:(.
|
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 14:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
My CEO with about 17mil SP is using a geddon with 7 mega pulses over his tempest with 6 1400mm because its at best a NPC hunter on par with a dominix. Quality of pilot arguments don't work here. Medium lasers and hybrids deal more DoT atm.
1) skillpoints has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the pilot. Was talking about the ability to see your ships and guns strenghts and playing them. Not about how many skillpoints someone has.
2) wow suprise suprise, the most damaging amarr ship using short range turrets has situations where it beats the most damaging minmatar ship using the longest range turrets in game. I'm baffled, no really I am.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 14:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
My CEO with about 17mil SP is using a geddon with 7 mega pulses over his tempest with 6 1400mm because its at best a NPC hunter on par with a dominix. Quality of pilot arguments don't work here. Medium lasers and hybrids deal more DoT atm.
1) skillpoints has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the pilot. Was talking about the ability to see your ships and guns strenghts and playing them. Not about how many skillpoints someone has.
2) wow suprise suprise, the most damaging amarr ship using short range turrets has situations where it beats the most damaging minmatar ship using the longest range turrets in game. I'm baffled, no really I am.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 14:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Noin
The only biggest problem when using projectiles is this:
I miss 3 times then I do a wrecking hit for 1000, then I miss 3 shots, then a wrecking hit for 900, then 3 misses etc.
The amount of misses and scratches, combined with the fact I have to reload after 10 or 11 shots (EMP/plasma ammo) lower my dot way, way , waaaay too much.
Thats the only problem.
And this right here, is where I am baffled. I've got a minmatar, and I've tried, and tried and tried and tried, to get those kind of results, and the best I can do is get 5% misses.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 14:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Noin
The only biggest problem when using projectiles is this:
I miss 3 times then I do a wrecking hit for 1000, then I miss 3 shots, then a wrecking hit for 900, then 3 misses etc.
The amount of misses and scratches, combined with the fact I have to reload after 10 or 11 shots (EMP/plasma ammo) lower my dot way, way , waaaay too much.
Thats the only problem.
And this right here, is where I am baffled. I've got a minmatar, and I've tried, and tried and tried and tried, to get those kind of results, and the best I can do is get 5% misses.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Nimrodel
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 16:32:00 -
[41]
Range, falloff and tracking on artillery and projectiles needs a boost in my opinion.
The huge fallof on artillery was there main selling point, after CCP in its infinate wisdom nerfed that.... well
Projectiles can pick wich type of damage they wish to do through there ammo and they require no capacitor.
If you fight an amarr ship you can fit EM and Thermal hardeners to make yourself near immune, but VS a Minmitar ships you can recive all sorts of damage making your ship weaker.
---------------------------------------------
Nimrodel
Dark Force User
Joint Espionage & Defence Industries
---------------------------------------------
Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage. |
Nimrodel
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 16:32:00 -
[42]
Range, falloff and tracking on artillery and projectiles needs a boost in my opinion.
The huge fallof on artillery was there main selling point, after CCP in its infinate wisdom nerfed that.... well
Projectiles can pick wich type of damage they wish to do through there ammo and they require no capacitor.
If you fight an amarr ship you can fit EM and Thermal hardeners to make yourself near immune, but VS a Minmitar ships you can recive all sorts of damage making your ship weaker.
---------------------------------------------
Nimrodel
Dark Force User
Joint Espionage & Defence Industries
---------------------------------------------
Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage. |
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 16:37:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
My CEO with about 17mil SP is using a geddon with 7 mega pulses over his tempest with 6 1400mm because its at best a NPC hunter on par with a dominix. Quality of pilot arguments don't work here. Medium lasers and hybrids deal more DoT atm.
1) skillpoints has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the pilot. Was talking about the ability to see your ships and guns strenghts and playing them. Not about how many skillpoints someone has.
2) wow suprise suprise, the most damaging amarr ship using short range turrets has situations where it beats the most damaging minmatar ship using the longest range turrets in game. I'm baffled, no really I am.
alone that most of the PvPer agree that projectiles suck deep atm should give you somethign to think about
dont know you, or your corp, so i cant tell what your into, but i can tell you that you didnt used projectiles latly
Wanna fly with me?
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 16:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Shia Dai
wow when the phoon uses lasers u know there is a prob.
Nope, doesn't say a damn thing about the projectiles, it says something about the quality of the pilot.
My CEO with about 17mil SP is using a geddon with 7 mega pulses over his tempest with 6 1400mm because its at best a NPC hunter on par with a dominix. Quality of pilot arguments don't work here. Medium lasers and hybrids deal more DoT atm.
1) skillpoints has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the pilot. Was talking about the ability to see your ships and guns strenghts and playing them. Not about how many skillpoints someone has.
2) wow suprise suprise, the most damaging amarr ship using short range turrets has situations where it beats the most damaging minmatar ship using the longest range turrets in game. I'm baffled, no really I am.
alone that most of the PvPer agree that projectiles suck deep atm should give you somethign to think about
dont know you, or your corp, so i cant tell what your into, but i can tell you that you didnt used projectiles latly
Wanna fly with me?
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ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2004.08.21 16:59:00 -
[45]
Personally, if they change 1400mms, great, more damage, if not, who cares. i just hit an interceptor with 2 mwds (because whicherver way he gos, soon he will be flying straight away from you) so i hit him twice, once with a 600 damage hit, and then the other shot killed him. people complain about not being able to hit battleships for mor than 300 damage. if u cant do that, then use a diffrent ship. 1 tracking computer 2 is all you need, if u know how to fly minmatar ships.
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ArcticWolf
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Posted - 2004.08.21 16:59:00 -
[46]
Personally, if they change 1400mms, great, more damage, if not, who cares. i just hit an interceptor with 2 mwds (because whicherver way he gos, soon he will be flying straight away from you) so i hit him twice, once with a 600 damage hit, and then the other shot killed him. people complain about not being able to hit battleships for mor than 300 damage. if u cant do that, then use a diffrent ship. 1 tracking computer 2 is all you need, if u know how to fly minmatar ships.
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Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.21 17:22:00 -
[47]
wow...didn't mean to open a tempest in a teapot - pardon the pun
So...from what I have read here is basically having the skills trained up lvl 5, it really doesnt do much to bring the Tempest up to par with the other tier 2 bships.
Well, there is one thing always assured with mmorpg, stats will always be changed and difft characters/ships will always have a chance to become FOM depending on the time.
On a complete side note to this dicussion, I have noticed my Rupture is back to doing all sorts of pre patch dmg again. My average for my 720's carb is ranging from 150-175 and my highest wrecking dmg shot was at 575
For you other exclusive Minnie's, hopefully things will be addressed. I actually think the lack of response means in this instance things are being examined.
CJ
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Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.21 17:22:00 -
[48]
wow...didn't mean to open a tempest in a teapot - pardon the pun
So...from what I have read here is basically having the skills trained up lvl 5, it really doesnt do much to bring the Tempest up to par with the other tier 2 bships.
Well, there is one thing always assured with mmorpg, stats will always be changed and difft characters/ships will always have a chance to become FOM depending on the time.
On a complete side note to this dicussion, I have noticed my Rupture is back to doing all sorts of pre patch dmg again. My average for my 720's carb is ranging from 150-175 and my highest wrecking dmg shot was at 575
For you other exclusive Minnie's, hopefully things will be addressed. I actually think the lack of response means in this instance things are being examined.
CJ
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2004.08.21 17:49:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 21/08/2004 17:50:33
Well, how about this argument. B4 projectile nerfs u saw a tempest every 5 minutes cos they were the absollute alrounder,, able to fit a full spread of guns, v nice shield tanking and sweet cap recharge, u couldnt really fault that setup. And now its not the perfect ship we have about 7 whine post every 5 seconds.
just my 2 cents,,,
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2004.08.21 17:49:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 21/08/2004 17:50:33
Well, how about this argument. B4 projectile nerfs u saw a tempest every 5 minutes cos they were the absollute alrounder,, able to fit a full spread of guns, v nice shield tanking and sweet cap recharge, u couldnt really fault that setup. And now its not the perfect ship we have about 7 whine post every 5 seconds.
just my 2 cents,,,
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Zu Lu
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Posted - 2004.08.21 17:58:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 21/08/2004 17:50:33
Well, how about this argument. B4 projectile nerfs u saw a tempest every 5 minutes cos they were the absollute alrounder,, able to fit a full spread of guns, v nice shield tanking and sweet cap recharge, u couldnt really fault that setup. And now its not the perfect ship we have about 7 whine post every 5 seconds.
just my 2 cents,,,
So your argument is that because the Tempest was strong before it should stay the weakest now ?
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Zu Lu
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Posted - 2004.08.21 17:58:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 21/08/2004 17:50:33
Well, how about this argument. B4 projectile nerfs u saw a tempest every 5 minutes cos they were the absollute alrounder,, able to fit a full spread of guns, v nice shield tanking and sweet cap recharge, u couldnt really fault that setup. And now its not the perfect ship we have about 7 whine post every 5 seconds.
just my 2 cents,,,
So your argument is that because the Tempest was strong before it should stay the weakest now ?
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Xron
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Posted - 2004.08.21 18:13:00 -
[53]
I don't really get into all the deep detailed stats.... I loaded my tempest with 1400's with some lvl 5 skills and most lvl 4's for gunnery skills. I despised the damage and misses from 60k out. Tried different ammo types and could not find a combination that could beat fitting 425 rails on the tempest. I even loaded large pulse lasers on for short range combat vs 800 projs and I liked the laser much more.
My feeling (no statistics or data) is that I will continue with the rails at long range because the 1400's suxors.
I have not loaded the 1400's since the last patch... I may do it and try it out again, but I feel that I am just going to be disappointed again.
People always say trans veloc etc etc learn this and you will be fine and fit the right gun and ammo... If you are doing ranged combat and the mob is coming straight at you does this argument hold up??? I would think not, but I have not learned trans velocity and the effects at long range when a mob is coming straight at you 8)
I just wanted to rant some. Feel free to apply constructive criticism and if I am way off base on trans veloc and it's effects at range combat plz by all means let me know!
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Xron
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Posted - 2004.08.21 18:13:00 -
[54]
I don't really get into all the deep detailed stats.... I loaded my tempest with 1400's with some lvl 5 skills and most lvl 4's for gunnery skills. I despised the damage and misses from 60k out. Tried different ammo types and could not find a combination that could beat fitting 425 rails on the tempest. I even loaded large pulse lasers on for short range combat vs 800 projs and I liked the laser much more.
My feeling (no statistics or data) is that I will continue with the rails at long range because the 1400's suxors.
I have not loaded the 1400's since the last patch... I may do it and try it out again, but I feel that I am just going to be disappointed again.
People always say trans veloc etc etc learn this and you will be fine and fit the right gun and ammo... If you are doing ranged combat and the mob is coming straight at you does this argument hold up??? I would think not, but I have not learned trans velocity and the effects at long range when a mob is coming straight at you 8)
I just wanted to rant some. Feel free to apply constructive criticism and if I am way off base on trans veloc and it's effects at range combat plz by all means let me know!
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2004.08.21 18:17:00 -
[55]
no m8 my 'argument' is that part of balancing is that all ships have their weaknesses, ive fought sum v decent proj setups from minmatar ships recently, they arnt just straight up suxor.
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2004.08.21 18:17:00 -
[56]
no m8 my 'argument' is that part of balancing is that all ships have their weaknesses, ive fought sum v decent proj setups from minmatar ships recently, they arnt just straight up suxor.
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.21 20:51:00 -
[57]
Actually, this has been a great read. I think all the comments are pretty good actually.
I agree with the sentiment the Tempest was the previous FOM bship, and the pendulum will swing. I just was curious if you have maxed out your gunnery skills, if this would help alleviate some of the current shortfalls. Tempest will come back, but appears for the moment, Apoc is the FOM.
The above is by no means a whine just a statement of fact from what I have read. I can handle the changes, and just need to adapt somewhat.
CJ
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Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.21 20:51:00 -
[58]
Actually, this has been a great read. I think all the comments are pretty good actually.
I agree with the sentiment the Tempest was the previous FOM bship, and the pendulum will swing. I just was curious if you have maxed out your gunnery skills, if this would help alleviate some of the current shortfalls. Tempest will come back, but appears for the moment, Apoc is the FOM.
The above is by no means a whine just a statement of fact from what I have read. I can handle the changes, and just need to adapt somewhat.
CJ
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.08.21 21:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nafri
*snip*
alone that most of the PvPer agree that projectiles suck deep atm should give you somethign to think about
dont know you, or your corp, so i cant tell what your into, but i can tell you that you didnt used projectiles latly
Well like I said, it did give me something to think about, it in no way corresponds to what I've seen tempest do, or with what I ( or aleast one of my chars ) can do in a tempest. I can honestly say I've done my best to find something horribly wrong with projectiles, and found nothing that supports that idea. Yeah 1400s miss at short range. They're not short range guns, but once you get some range, they don't hurt a little, they freaking HURT big time.
Maybe i'm weird, but if everyone tells me that the sun is blue, I don't assume the sun is blue. I go look at the sun. And unfortunately for you, your statement that I don't use projectiles and haven't used them lately is quite untrue.
And what does knowing me or my corp have to do with anything. This is my voice. It's my oldest char. Call me weird, but when I say something I don't do it with 2nd acounts or alts.
One thing I'll give you, the 1400 today, ain't the 1400 of yesterday ( not to be taken literally ) it is exactly what people say it is not. A really long range gun. Try using antimatter in a 425 at 50-60km. Now do the same with EMP and 1400s. Now try to get the damage output of the 1400s with rails at that 50-60km. i can make this little test very short, you won't do it. The days of one turret to do it all are gone. Do you miss em? I sure don't. Use guns for the things they're good at.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.08.21 21:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nafri
*snip*
alone that most of the PvPer agree that projectiles suck deep atm should give you somethign to think about
dont know you, or your corp, so i cant tell what your into, but i can tell you that you didnt used projectiles latly
Well like I said, it did give me something to think about, it in no way corresponds to what I've seen tempest do, or with what I ( or aleast one of my chars ) can do in a tempest. I can honestly say I've done my best to find something horribly wrong with projectiles, and found nothing that supports that idea. Yeah 1400s miss at short range. They're not short range guns, but once you get some range, they don't hurt a little, they freaking HURT big time.
Maybe i'm weird, but if everyone tells me that the sun is blue, I don't assume the sun is blue. I go look at the sun. And unfortunately for you, your statement that I don't use projectiles and haven't used them lately is quite untrue.
And what does knowing me or my corp have to do with anything. This is my voice. It's my oldest char. Call me weird, but when I say something I don't do it with 2nd acounts or alts.
One thing I'll give you, the 1400 today, ain't the 1400 of yesterday ( not to be taken literally ) it is exactly what people say it is not. A really long range gun. Try using antimatter in a 425 at 50-60km. Now do the same with EMP and 1400s. Now try to get the damage output of the 1400s with rails at that 50-60km. i can make this little test very short, you won't do it. The days of one turret to do it all are gone. Do you miss em? I sure don't. Use guns for the things they're good at.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.21 22:01:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Nafri
*snip*
alone that most of the PvPer agree that projectiles suck deep atm should give you somethign to think about
dont know you, or your corp, so i cant tell what your into, but i can tell you that you didnt used projectiles latly
Well like I said, it did give me something to think about, it in no way corresponds to what I've seen tempest do, or with what I ( or aleast one of my chars ) can do in a tempest. I can honestly say I've done my best to find something horribly wrong with projectiles, and found nothing that supports that idea. Yeah 1400s miss at short range. They're not short range guns, but once you get some range, they don't hurt a little, they freaking HURT big time.
Maybe i'm weird, but if everyone tells me that the sun is blue, I don't assume the sun is blue. I go look at the sun. And unfortunately for you, your statement that I don't use projectiles and haven't used them lately is quite untrue.
And what does knowing me or my corp have to do with anything. This is my voice. It's my oldest char. Call me weird, but when I say something I don't do it with 2nd acounts or alts.
One thing I'll give you, the 1400 today, ain't the 1400 of yesterday ( not to be taken literally ) it is exactly what people say it is not. A really long range gun. Try using antimatter in a 425 at 50-60km. Now do the same with EMP and 1400s. Now try to get the damage output of the 1400s with rails at that 50-60km. i can make this little test very short, you won't do it. The days of one turret to do it all are gone. Do you miss em? I sure don't. Use guns for the things they're good at.
seems like you dont understand...
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.21 22:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Nafri
*snip*
alone that most of the PvPer agree that projectiles suck deep atm should give you somethign to think about
dont know you, or your corp, so i cant tell what your into, but i can tell you that you didnt used projectiles latly
Well like I said, it did give me something to think about, it in no way corresponds to what I've seen tempest do, or with what I ( or aleast one of my chars ) can do in a tempest. I can honestly say I've done my best to find something horribly wrong with projectiles, and found nothing that supports that idea. Yeah 1400s miss at short range. They're not short range guns, but once you get some range, they don't hurt a little, they freaking HURT big time.
Maybe i'm weird, but if everyone tells me that the sun is blue, I don't assume the sun is blue. I go look at the sun. And unfortunately for you, your statement that I don't use projectiles and haven't used them lately is quite untrue.
And what does knowing me or my corp have to do with anything. This is my voice. It's my oldest char. Call me weird, but when I say something I don't do it with 2nd acounts or alts.
One thing I'll give you, the 1400 today, ain't the 1400 of yesterday ( not to be taken literally ) it is exactly what people say it is not. A really long range gun. Try using antimatter in a 425 at 50-60km. Now do the same with EMP and 1400s. Now try to get the damage output of the 1400s with rails at that 50-60km. i can make this little test very short, you won't do it. The days of one turret to do it all are gone. Do you miss em? I sure don't. Use guns for the things they're good at.
seems like you dont understand...
Wanna fly with me?
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.08.21 22:14:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Nafri
seems like you dont understand...
That could very well be it, actually I think your right I don't understand.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 22:14:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Nafri
seems like you dont understand...
That could very well be it, actually I think your right I don't understand.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.21 22:21:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Nafri
seems like you dont understand...
That could very well be it, actually I think your right I don't understand.
yes - indeed you dont, and i dont understand a reason of you trolling abaut every post in here
go try Projektiles for a week and then try lasers 
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.21 22:21:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Nafri
seems like you dont understand...
That could very well be it, actually I think your right I don't understand.
yes - indeed you dont, and i dont understand a reason of you trolling abaut every post in here
go try Projektiles for a week and then try lasers
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.21 23:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Nafri
seems like you dont understand...
That could very well be it, actually I think your right I don't understand.
Go get yourself a typhoon and temepst if you don't still have them.
For close range megapulses on those ship, respectively.
For Long range use 425mm Rails with Irridium L.
What exactly are ANY of the benefits to using Projectiles again? Oh yes... Damage or RoF bonus. Do those bonuses do justice to the gun... yeah compared to the guns on other ships... but they still are underclassed compared to Cruiser Sized guns. Lesson is... they suck on minny ships... they suck even more if your not on a minny ship. Yet.. energy L and hybrid L guns DO work better on minny ships than projectles. With less skill invested.
Fact is that compared to the other guns Projectiles DO NOT have a role anymore. Hybrid with ranged low cap ammo take their long range role. Ion Cannons with high range low cap ammo even make 800mm worthless on paper besides the fact they suck too.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.21 23:08:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Nafri
seems like you dont understand...
That could very well be it, actually I think your right I don't understand.
Go get yourself a typhoon and temepst if you don't still have them.
For close range megapulses on those ship, respectively.
For Long range use 425mm Rails with Irridium L.
What exactly are ANY of the benefits to using Projectiles again? Oh yes... Damage or RoF bonus. Do those bonuses do justice to the gun... yeah compared to the guns on other ships... but they still are underclassed compared to Cruiser Sized guns. Lesson is... they suck on minny ships... they suck even more if your not on a minny ship. Yet.. energy L and hybrid L guns DO work better on minny ships than projectles. With less skill invested.
Fact is that compared to the other guns Projectiles DO NOT have a role anymore. Hybrid with ranged low cap ammo take their long range role. Ion Cannons with high range low cap ammo even make 800mm worthless on paper besides the fact they suck too.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.21 23:20:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
no m8 my 'argument' is that part of balancing is that all ships have their weaknesses, ive fought sum v decent proj setups from minmatar ships recently, they arnt just straight up suxor.
Been flying Minm ships almost a year m8... even on my gallente char. Used Tempest when I had better megathron skill. On my mega I used 5 1400mm only 4 months ago. I have been thru ever setup since patch on my phoon. 1200mm/800mm/1400mm/dualX50 and none of them are worth it compared to megapulse/Medium Hybrid Blasters/Medium Modulated Heavy Beams/Large Electron Blasters/425mm Rail.
Fact is that the Role of Projectile is broke... not just the gun. We can EASILY FIX projectiles. But at the cost of other game mechanics. You want a 425mm range nerf ? Cause that might happen. You want to boost sentry guns range to 250km if they gave better range to minny bs's. Wouldn't that make all the empire pirate nubs mad! I just don't see a scenario that the projectiles fit in their role. These new falloff/tracking system isn't bad... its jut bad for projectiles. Ship stats need changing... ammo bonus need changing... damage mods need changing... but I say again AT WHAT COST would the rest of eve have to pay for the fixing of Projectiles. Cause 425mm Rails work too damn good at distance compared to the 1400mm. Low cap high damage isn't the case for the 1400mm anymore.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.21 23:20:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Neon Genesis
no m8 my 'argument' is that part of balancing is that all ships have their weaknesses, ive fought sum v decent proj setups from minmatar ships recently, they arnt just straight up suxor.
Been flying Minm ships almost a year m8... even on my gallente char. Used Tempest when I had better megathron skill. On my mega I used 5 1400mm only 4 months ago. I have been thru ever setup since patch on my phoon. 1200mm/800mm/1400mm/dualX50 and none of them are worth it compared to megapulse/Medium Hybrid Blasters/Medium Modulated Heavy Beams/Large Electron Blasters/425mm Rail.
Fact is that the Role of Projectile is broke... not just the gun. We can EASILY FIX projectiles. But at the cost of other game mechanics. You want a 425mm range nerf ? Cause that might happen. You want to boost sentry guns range to 250km if they gave better range to minny bs's. Wouldn't that make all the empire pirate nubs mad! I just don't see a scenario that the projectiles fit in their role. These new falloff/tracking system isn't bad... its jut bad for projectiles. Ship stats need changing... ammo bonus need changing... damage mods need changing... but I say again AT WHAT COST would the rest of eve have to pay for the fixing of Projectiles. Cause 425mm Rails work too damn good at distance compared to the 1400mm. Low cap high damage isn't the case for the 1400mm anymore.
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