Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 10:50:00 -
[1]
While ethnic Intaki have risen to great heights within the Gallente Federation, enjoying many successes and the rewards that come with them, The Intaki Liberation Front has, since its creation, put forth the notion that the Gallente Federation was generally not interested in the plight of those Intaki who chose to remain residents of their home system.
For years, the Federation's dereliction was evident by the frequency of pirate attacks and the resulting strain on the economy in the Intaki System. While these problems are now being addressed by the capsuleer community, the true measure of the Federation's abandonment has been evidenced by its lack of commitment to keep the system out of the war with the Caldari.
As I have stated elsewhere, the ILF has taken a policy of neutrality in the factional warfare, choosing instead to continue its long-standing policy of creating "blue" relationships with corporations on an individual basis, based largely on how those corps view the Intaki claim to self-determination.
Here-to-fore, the Caldari have been much more supportive of this claim. In fact, in some cases, our professed desire for self-rule has caused Federation Militia corps to become openly hostile, although the ILF has NEVER advocated a violent separation from the Federation.
It does occur that ILF pilots will join with ôblueö allies to fight aggressive ôredö and neutral pilots. Our rules of engagement prevent ILF pilots from taking sides in ôblue on blueö skirmishes, however. So any instances of ILF pilots flying with Caldari against Federation militia is most likely the result of the Federation corporations' unwillingness to exchange blue standings.
As an aside, any corporation wishing to exchange positive standings may contact me directly or Andromedous Aplec, the ILF's chief diplomat. We're always looking for allies to help us improve the safety of pilots operating in and around the Intaki System.
Back to the matter at hand, namely the ôliberationö of the Intaki System: Anyone considering the current situation must take into account Interstellar Law concerning the "conquering" of a star system. The following comes from CONCORD's resolutions of militia warfare:
"Sovereignty will never be modified or affected by factional warfare occupancy. A system's sovereignty was determined by the faction that originally settled in the system and claimed it as its own and the sovereignty will never change due to that fact. A system's occupancy is determined by the Factional Militia holding it."
So it is that CONCORD will continue to recognize the Gallente as the sovereigns of Intaki and the Caldari as an occupational entity.
It remains the position of the Intaki Liberation Front that NEITHER of these groups can claim sovereignty as that power lies inherently with the Intaki people themselves. As such, the ILF considers both forces to be occupational in nature and will continue to gather allies in its quest for self-determination and eventual independence for the Intaki people.
|
Vendrin
Caldari Aperture Harmonics
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 12:05:00 -
[2]
All talk, little action. For all my disagreements with CAIN, at least they only speak when they've actually done something. _______________________________
|
Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:35:00 -
[3]
Were the Intaki to remove themselves from the Federation they would find themselves a very small fish in an ocean of predators. I'd give it a year maybe two before the system either reintegrates into the Federation for the protection of it's navy, opts into contracts with the state that effectively make it corporately owned and defended, is "reclaimed" by the Amarr Empire, or falls to any of the various outlaw entities roaming around out here.
Even were they able to successfully survive the Empires tend not to tolerate the rise of any truly independent powers in their midst. The Syndicate is a prime example, kept afloat only by it's criminal contacts and Federal ties.
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 15:01:00 -
[4]
Reality and practicalities should never cause one to cease to dream. ____________ My views are my own |
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 15:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Were the Intaki to remove themselves from the Federation they would find themselves a very small fish in an ocean of predators. I'd give it a year maybe two before the system either reintegrates into the Federation for the protection of it's navy, opts into contracts with the state that effectively make it corporately owned and defended, is "reclaimed" by the Amarr Empire, or falls to any of the various outlaw entities roaming around out here.
I'm sure the Federation would treat an Intaki cession from the Federation with the same respect it gave the Caldari.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 15:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel Reality and practicalities should never cause one to cease to dream.
Heh, no, but it's what starts wars.
___
Latest video: War Has Come (720p) |
Atraxerxes
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:28:00 -
[7]
The 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit of the Caldari State is proud have a NAP and blue status set for the ILF.
Hopefully in future endeavours our expansion into former Federation occupied space will allow us to not only help keep the peace, but help revitalize the market in Intaki.
Atraxerxes/CEO 22nd BRDU
"Green isn't a good color for us.
I think we'll paint this region BLUE."
|
Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel Reality and practicalities should never cause one to cease to dream.
I know all about having a dream to follow, I also know that a dream can get your worlds bombarded, invaded, and their surviving populations enslaved.
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf I know all about having a dream to follow, I also know that a dream can get your worlds bombarded, invaded, and their surviving populations enslaved.
The likelihood - no, the certainty - of violent retribution is no good reason to abandon a dream.
____________ My views are my own |
Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel The likelihood - no, the certainty - of violent retribution is no good reason to abandon a dream.
I'd like to think I know a thing or two about that.
But I doubt the average Intaki has a dream of getting killed or enslaved. The worlds of the Empires hang together because otherwise they would hang alone. They support each other because only combined can their economic, political, and military force stand against other similarly powerful groups.
Add that no grouping of worlds can afford to be diminished, nor afford to allow an event such as the "liberation" of one group to cascade into a full-blown collapse of their society as everyone else starts thinking how well they could do on their own, and you have the very same logic that lead to the bombardment of Caldari prime and other such atrocities.
The Intaki don't have the numbers, the unity, the resources, or the military might to pull off a Khanid let alone a Gallente-Caldari-like civil war.
|
|
Faraelle Brightman
Gallente Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Faraelle Brightman on 28/03/2009 18:56:55
Originally by: Vendrin All talk, little action. For all my disagreements with CAIN, at least they only speak when they've actually done something.
That's rather the point of a statement of neutrality. ILF's activities in space tend toward "local law enforcement" and you know well what the area is like, Vendrin. "Little action" would be selling them short, just most of the action isn't notable enough to make public anouncements about. -----------------------
"Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies." |
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf The Intaki don't have the numbers, the unity, the resources, or the military might to pull off a Khanid let alone a Gallente-Caldari-like civil war.
I don't disagree, but all of this is irrelevent so long as there are Intaki who dream of independence. Dreams have a power greater than guns, as you yourself know so very well. And dreams have a cost. You will know that too.
I care not for Intaki independence myself, like you I think it is doomed to failure while the Federation and State dominate our space. But ... I am very glad there are those innocent enough to dream that dream, even if I do not share it. ____________ My views are my own |
Inara Subaka
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm sure the Federation would treat an Intaki cession from the Federation with the same respect it gave the Caldari.
*Inara snickers slightly*
The Federation has always been straight forward with their policies, I think it's something like this: "We are open minded to all ideas, moralities and modes of thought, as long as they agree with ours".
Originally by: Saxon Hawke, quoting CONCORD militia warfare resolutions Sovereignty will never be modified or affected by factional warfare occupancy. A system's sovereignty was determined by the faction that originally settled in the system and claimed it as its own and the sovereignty will never change due to that fact. A system's occupancy is determined by the Factional Militia holding it.
And yet another reason CONCORD shows it's inadequacy. I'd bet if the Intaki people were to break away from the Federation as the State did many years ago, CONCORD would still label them as part of the Federation simply due to the bureaucracy of changing the location transponders in those systems and the information network that all Pilots have access to.
|
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:22:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Stitcher on 28/03/2009 22:22:30
Originally by: Inara Subaka
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia I'm sure the Federation would treat an Intaki cession from the Federation with the same respect it gave the Caldari.
*Inara snickers slightly*
The Federation has always been straight forward with their policies, I think it's something like this: "We are open minded to all ideas, moralities and modes of thought, as long as they agree with ours".
"As long as they are not incompatible with ours" actually. Subtle difference, you might think, but those three words are the reason why the Intaki homeworld never got bombed from orbit while the Caldari one did. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Aulis Harju
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:49:00 -
[15]
To be honest, I could care less about the plight of the Intaki people. They stuck with the federation and helped them attack and oppress us. They deserve every bit of what they're getting. The Federation was built on Caldari blood, and everyone who didn't resist it along with us is a traitor to the State and deserves to be punished for allowing the federation to ravage our sacred Homeworld. I hate every last federal soldier and politician and every last apathetic citizen of the federation who ignorantly keep them in power. I will laugh and dance when the might of our State scorches your worlds and you receive just retribution for your crimes.
For Race and State!
|
Vendrin
Caldari Aperture Harmonics
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 23:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aulis Harju To be honest, I could care less about the plight of the Intaki people. They stuck with the federation and helped them attack and oppress us. They deserve every bit of what they're getting. The Federation was built on Caldari blood, and everyone who didn't resist it along with us is a traitor to the State and deserves to be punished for allowing the federation to ravage our sacred Homeworld. I hate every last federal soldier and politician and every last apathetic citizen of the federation who ignorantly keep them in power. I will laugh and dance when the might of our State scorches your worlds and you receive just retribution for your crimes.
For Race and State!
Vendrin sighs.
Try to actually learn about history before you go blathering on about it. Your hate is a waste of time. _______________________________
|
Magnus Nordir
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 23:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aulis Harju To be honest, I could care less about the plight of the Intaki people. They stuck with the federation and helped them attack and oppress us. They deserve every bit of what they're getting. The Federation was built on Caldari blood, and everyone who didn't resist it along with us is a traitor to the State and deserves to be punished for allowing the federation to ravage our sacred Homeworld. I hate every last federal soldier and politician and every last apathetic citizen of the federation who ignorantly keep them in power. I will laugh and dance when the might of our State scorches your worlds and you receive just retribution for your crimes.
For Race and State!
Oh look, another new Capsuleer, straight out of the academy.
Just a little tip: Your state or whoever you got that bile from lies to you, and the race you call yours is keeping you enslaved. The irrelevant little skirmish between the political representations of Caldari and Gallente races is of the inferiors, not of Gods.
|
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 01:22:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Hamish Grayson on 29/03/2009 01:27:32
Originally by: Stitcher the reason why the Intaki homeworld never got bombed from orbit while the Caldari one did.
The reason Guri, is because the Intaki saw what happened to the Caldari, who at that time were in a much better position to succeed and still barely avoided extinction, and so they got back in line and did as they were told.
I also noticed that you seem to be under the impression that the Caldari willingly founded a Federation with the Gallente. Our ancestors were about as willing ôCo-foundersö of the Federation as the Ni-kunni were of the Amarrian Empire. As weÆd barely figured out the steam engine when the first Gallente Space ships landed we didnÆt have much choice when they said they were creating an Empire and weÆd be in it. At that time they had complete control over all known space and were using their post industrial age economy and technology to completely dominate our pre-industrial revolution society and culture. They attempted to remold the Caldari into a people more appropriately conformed to their desires - to eradicate our culture and replace it with their own.
Do not kid yourself, we were a conquered people. The only difference between the Gallente Imperialist and the Amarrians is that instead of coercion gun point they offered advanced technologies to local leaders that chose to become their puppets and none to those resisted û they offered the corporate system and advanced economic techniques to merchant guilds that spread their cultural imperialism for them and smiled as those that wouldnÆt collaborate withered and died.
Only there were those Caldari who were clever enough to say æweÆll take your ægiftsÆ and weÆll keep smiling and jumping when you twitch your finger right up until we are finally strong enough to look you in the eye and say No. Thank the Maker for them! Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu!
============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Sumerio Rayej
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 19:43:00 -
[19]
There are those of us of the Intaki Liberation Front who would love believe in the Gallente way of life. Liberty and democracy for all peoples is a lofty ideal, a tempting slogan to follow. But it has never been anything but an ideal for the Intaki homeworld. Our world suffers without security, without commerce, unless you count the Serpentis drug trade. It's buried deep in low security space where only pirates rule. The only interest the Gallente or the Caldari seem to have in Intaki is as a high-profile trophy in the current war. It's a sad state of affairs.
Perhaps the Gallente Federation ignores the plight of our people as "punishment" for the actions of the Mordus Legion or the Intaki Syndicate. Maybe they genuinely have too many other troubles to worry about. As the recent Caldari occupation of Intaki has hammered home, the Gallente Federation lacks either the will or the ability to provide security for, and thus to govern, Intaki. Therefore, the ILF has stepped forward as a first step toward Intaki self-rule. Since it seems we will have to, Intaki will provide its own security and, eventually, its own independent government. Let the Federation and Caldari pod pilots continue to fight their pointless war. It doesn't really matter to us who claims to "occupy" Intaki.
|
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 20:02:00 -
[20]
It's Haan, Grayson. If you have a problem with that, feel free to take it up with the Ishukone Citizen's Representation Department. Cite reference #PP012-Ha73914.
I won't argue history with you, even if you are wildly inaccurate - the Caldari had a functioning global communications network when the eye-rollingly named "Cultural Deliverance Society" arrived. I just wish I was as ignorant to the realities of cross-cultural diplomacy as you seem to be. Life was so much easier when I was swallowing the corporate propaganda.
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
|
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 00:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Stitcher It's Haan, Grayson. If you have a problem with that, feel free to take it up with the Ishukone Citizen's Representation Department. Cite reference #PP012-Ha73914.
I'm sure your ancestors are very proud of that piece of paper Guri. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Major Deviant
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 02:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
The Intaki don't have the numbers, the unity, the resources, or the military might to pull off a Khanid let alone a Gallente-Caldari-like civil war.
There are third parties such as Mordu's Legion that ccould help in that front. Mercenaries, yes but with Intaki interests as well. We are talking about a system to begin with and ML, can easily defend a system as the Feds would not be stupid enough to send the navy. Caldari would respond in kind and full blown war follows.
|
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 02:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hamish Grayson
Originally by: Stitcher It's Haan, Grayson. If you have a problem with that, feel free to take it up with the Ishukone Citizen's Representation Department. Cite reference #PP012-Ha73914.
I'm sure your ancestors are very proud of that piece of paper Guri.
CAIN continues to prove that they ignore facts when placed blatantly in front of their face.
___
Latest video: War Has Come (720p) |
Kimochi Rendar
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 08:52:00 -
[24]
You're still beating this drum? You ILF folks need to learn that separation from a nation like the Gallente Federation is not a good thing when you have no real political or military power to speak of...
Director of Diplomacy | IC Blog |
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 09:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hamish Grayson
Originally by: Stitcher It's Haan, Grayson. If you have a problem with that, feel free to take it up with the Ishukone Citizen's Representation Department. Cite reference #PP012-Ha73914.
I'm sure your ancestors are very proud of that piece of paper Guri.
Yes, I'm sure they are actually. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 09:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kimochi Rendar You're still beating this drum? You ILF folks need to learn that separation from a nation like the Gallente Federation is not a good thing when you have no real political or military power to speak of...
Although i am Intaki i truly agree with you. I don't feel like seperating from the federation to. They have done so much for us. We knew the Gallentian even before the federation was founded and long before the great war.
I respect the Federation much more than i respect the state...
|
Mort Eveson
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 10:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Passero mus
Originally by: Kimochi Rendar You're still beating this drum? You ILF folks need to learn that separation from a nation like the Gallente Federation is not a good thing when you have no real political or military power to speak of...
Although i am Intaki i truly agree with you. I don't feel like seperating from the federation to. They have done so much for us. We knew the Gallentian even before the federation was founded and long before the great war.
I respect the Federation much more than i respect the state...
That's what I used to believe, before I went to the Intaki system. It was filled with pirates, the jump gates leading to it regularly camped; it had become a back water. I agree the Gallentian have done a lot for us, but they have left Intaki to the dogs.
|
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 10:21:00 -
[28]
But what has our home world has to offer more? I live happily in Gallentian space. Close to where CONCORD keep track of everything. It's been generations ago that someone of my family has returned to the Placid Region.
I hear stories about the beauty of Intaki V but why, if it is such a beauty, did the federation leave it to the pirates?
I don't know that much about our history or original homeworld. The only things i know are from stories and readings but they are all a blur...
I live happily among the other Gallantian and they accept us really good. They respect me as a captain and offer me great jobs with high responsibilty. I don't believe they would do that if they didn't respect our bloodline?
|
Megrim
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 11:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Passero mus But what has our home world has to offer more? I live happily in Gallentian space. Close to where CONCORD keep track of everything. It's been generations ago that someone of my family has returned to the Placid Region.
I hear stories about the beauty of Intaki V but why, if it is such a beauty, did the federation leave it to the pirates?
I don't know that much about our history or original homeworld. The only things i know are from stories and readings but they are all a blur...
I live happily among the other Gallantian and they accept us really good. They respect me as a captain and offer me great jobs with high responsibilty. I don't believe they would do that if they didn't respect our bloodline?
I too was born and raised in Gallente space. My first visit to Intaki however, drastically changed my opinion of the Federation. Whilst I'm not about to welcome Caldari profiteers with open arms, I can fully understand the festering resentment of many of my fellow pilots in Intaki, the same pilots who spend their time offering the protection so sorely lacking from Federation forces.
Intaki V is indeed a stunning place, as for why it's been so long ignored, well, that's a matter of debate. My only hope is that out of all this chaos, Intaki may finally gain some measure of importance in the eyes of the Federation, or if not the Fed's, then possibly the State. If steps had been taken earlier to address some of these concerns, such as the dismal security status for one, it's entirely possible we would all be in a very different situation right now.
|
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 11:28:00 -
[30]
By reading all this you make me doubt the cause i am fighting for. Am i fighting on the right side? Shouldn't i rather join my fellow Intakis and fight for our home world?
A few days ago i had to do an important mission for an agent who really trusts me. It was a mission that was of great importance of the Federation. The caldarian had deployed a secret communication array in Sinq Laison and i had to find it and destroy it. It was known that is was highly guarded and although i almost lost my life in that fight, i was truly convinced that i was doing the right thing. I helped the Federation fighting the State but if the more i read, the more i delve into our history, the more i have to think we, as Intaki are right in the middle between the Federation and the State.
|
|
Ajit Tilak
Gallente Infinite Dreams Inc
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 12:14:00 -
[31]
I am not sure seperation is the best thing for the Intaki though I do share some of the feelings that drive this. The Entire placid region has been ignored by the Federation dispite this being where the home world of one of the so called major members of the Federation is. It is a discrage that looks more like the efforts of the Matar Republic than of the Federation in the way the area is developed by the Federation.
If the Federation where to supply forces to properly police the region I am sure many of the pople proposing seperation would back down. However as it stands the independent capsuler provides more to this region of space than the Federation.
However the call that needs come right now is not to the Federation which does not seem to want to answer or to the State which to be brutally honest only care about Intaki space as a way to hurt the Federation. The call needs to go to independent capsuleers, corporations and alliances.
The Placid region is a resource rich area with proxmity to Federation and State space as well as lawless space. This provides an excellent opportunity for commerce as the crux of the location means a steady flow of ISK, if the supply is there for the demand. With the current war going on a corporation could find a nice way to make income supply ammo to both sides as they fight in this and nearby reagions.
Does this sound like war profiteering, absolutely. However this is what is needed for the Intaki people. We need, in whatever way possible to bring in commerce at this time. With that commerce comes increased traffic of lawbiding pilots and increased security. This region is ripe for development and opportunity.
Does this approach help the sepertest movement, absolutely. It provides a needed economic infrastructure the Intaki people could call on to build their own security and economy. Does it help without seperation, absolutely. It does as above and provides a strong economy that will support the region and raise it's ability to police itself.
While this might not seem the most noble or true method of helping the Intaki people, it is the most practical and effective.
|
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 12:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Passero mus By reading all this you make me doubt the cause i am fighting for. Am i fighting on the right side? Shouldn't i rather join my fellow Intakis and fight for our home world?
Passero, you are taking the first steps down a long road of self-discovery. I would invite you to come to the Intaki system and see for yourself in what little regard the Federation holds your ancestral home world, but I cannot guarantee your safety. Coming here certainly has its risks.
Continue to explore your history, your birthright and your future. And don't hesitate to contact any ILF pilot if you find yourself with questions you cannot answer.
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 12:15:00 -
[33]
Just remember, the cost of Intaki freedom is likely an orbital bombardment. If the dream of independence is worth that price to your eyes, dream it.
____________ My views are my own |
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 12:30:00 -
[34]
Intaki freedom? As far as i know, we are free...There is no Gallantian that tells us what to do or where to go. We are free as any other Gallantian.
If Intaki space is really that dangerous i don't think i will try to explore my homeworld. I will however do some more research and train some skills because in the future i want to go were my roots are... Perhaps defend our home, if it is truly the beauty everybody is talking about...
|
Megrim
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 13:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ajit Tilak
The Placid region is a resource rich area with proxmity to Federation and State space as well as lawless space. This provides an excellent opportunity for commerce as the crux of the location means a steady flow of ISK, if the supply is there for the demand. With the current war going on a corporation could find a nice way to make income supply ammo to both sides as they fight in this and nearby reagions.
Does this sound like war profiteering, absolutely.
Also sounds to me rather like the Syndicate. Though I suppose we could do, and have done, worse.
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 13:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Passero mus Intaki freedom? As far as i know, we are free...There is no Gallantian that tells us what to do or where to go. We are free as any other Gallantian.
Our experience ... differs.
But consider this, how truly free is Intaki when the Federation, even in times of peace, consigned our home system to be the preserve of pirates?
____________ My views are my own |
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 13:51:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel Our experience ... differs.
But consider this, how truly free is Intaki when the Federation, even in times of peace, consigned our home system to be the preserve of pirates?
You are right but you have to admit... we are free to move among galantian space. They don't force us to move back to our home world. This in contrary in what the caldarian did after the first war... They didn't want that we would live among them. The galantians don't mind that we live amongst them... and thus i believe we are free.
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 14:34:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Passero mus You are right but you have to admit... we are free to move among galantian space. They don't force us to move back to our home world. This in contrary in what the caldarian did after the first war... They didn't want that we would live among them. The galantians don't mind that we live amongst them... and thus i believe we are free.
It is true the Caldari are really no better than the Gallente in this. On that, at least, we can agree. ____________ My views are my own |
Aria Jenneth
Caldari Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 18:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Passero mus You are right but you have to admit... we are free to move among galantian space. They don't force us to move back to our home world. This in contrary in what the caldarian did after the first war... They didn't want that we would live among them. The galantians don't mind that we live amongst them... and thus i believe we are free.
... I'm terribly sorry?
I gather you haven't recently brushed up on the history of Mordu's Legion. A snippet of interest: yes, there were a few idiots who wanted to throw Intaki who settled in Caldari space out. The State didn't agree.
There was a revolt. The idiots lost.
Mordu's Legion, the foundation of which was based in that Intaki population, is very close with the State to this day, and foreigners who serve in it may gain State citizenship upon retirement.
If you're going to demonize my homeland, could you at least focus on the real weak points of State culture?
|
Aulis Harju
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 19:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Vendrin Vendrin sighs.
Try to actually learn about history before you go blathering on about it. Your hate is a waste of time.
Wrong. Fighting the gallente and their pets wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself is not a "waste of time". A Caldari who refuses to do so is a waste of oxygen.
For Race and State!
|
|
Natalcya Katla
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 02:18:00 -
[41]
If, at the time when the Treaty of Yulai was drawn up, the local leaders of the Intaki system had wished for CONCORD to assume the responsibility of safeguarding their space, those spacelanes would be as safe and secure today as any high-security system of the cluster. The leaders of the Intaki system, however - along with a multitude of other local governors clusterwide - decided that they did not want the interference of CONCORD in what they considered "their own affairs". A century later, the result is the sorry state of the low-security systems of today.
It is a sad story, which goes a long way to demonstrate the capriciousness and unfairness of any kind of decentralized government, whether in the form of a federal union, a corporate conglomeral state, a tribal confederacy or a feudal empire. "Local government" equates in most cases to "chaos and misrule", and is largely to blame for why the Intaki seen as a whole, along with multitudes of others, have remained such backward people, still rooted in long-obsolete primitivist tradition.
Take a step back, of course, and one realizes that the great interstellar powers themselves, when viewed in contrast to each other, are chillingly analogous to differing kinds of "local government" themselves, and that the differences between them are a source of chaos, arbitrariness and the disruption of harmony.
It is a problem which desperately needs solving.
|
Inara Subaka
Caldari Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 02:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Passero mus We are free as any other Gallantian.
I just have to know if I'm the only one who caught the irony in this statement?
You do realize that the Federation is one of the more controlling of the 4 major sovereignties, they are simply better at making the people that live under their rule feel like they have a choice in matters. Democracy is a hoax, the wool that the beast hides beneath.
|
Nausea
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 09:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Aulis Harju
Wrong. Fighting the gallente and their pets wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself is not a "waste of time". A Caldari who refuses to do so is a waste of oxygen.
For Race and State!
I don't often say this, but I admit I would take some small pleasure in making your ship burn...
I commend the various propaganda offices for managing to turn out someone quite as blinkered as this.
|
Sah Phyre
Gallente The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 09:58:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Sah Phyre on 31/03/2009 09:58:05
Originally by: Aulis Harju
Wrong. Fighting the gallente and their pets wherever and whenever the opportunity presents itself is not a "waste of time". A Caldari who refuses to do so is a waste of oxygen.
For Race and State!
This is precisely the kind of attitude that helps your enemies. You sound just like the idiot that's running the State now, and the people you're conquering/liberating (take your pick) aren't going to greet you with cheers and flowers for that.
If only Gariushi was still alive...
-------------------------------------------- My Faith is my shield. |
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 11:55:00 -
[45]
Why does it seems that after leaving Federation, Intaki would join Caldari State... huh?? I've seen these things before - someone talks about independence and then somehow becomes an enemy.
Just figuring - either ILF are really just a bunch of fanatics, who don't understand that Intaki would not survive on it's own, or they already have found "a new friend" to Intaki. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:05:00 -
[46]
The last few days i have learned lots about my Intaki brothers and i believe we CAN survive on our own without the Federation or the State. We are strong enough to speak for ourself.
I am feeling more and more simpaty with the ILF. Where can i sign up?
|
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:14:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Saxon Hawke on 31/03/2009 12:14:43 Mr. Kesada, without support from the Federation Navy or patrols by CONCORD, Intaki already stands by itself. If our sovereignty were recognized, who would conquer us? The Caldari? Oh wait...
We may very well be fanatics, sir, but as long as I have a clone left to wake up in, I will devote my life to bringing safety and prosperity to the Intaki System.
Passero, you can sign up at our headquarters in Intaki, or our "safe" office in Stacmon. I look forward to seeing your application. Intaki needs more brave sons like you to find their way home.
|
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:18:00 -
[48]
And how exactly would it be? Do you have numbers as any other force in New Eden? Do you think Amarrians would simply look at you and do nothing? For warps sake did you not see what they did to Minmatars? And let me tell you - they were much stronger then, than you will be in thousand years!
Don't be naive - our world is not build on making friends - it is build on making alliances with strongest of them, so that all of us could survive. ILFs are just a bunch of self-righteous, ambitious separatists who cannot tell difference between a dream and reality. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:21:00 -
[49]
Why would the amarrians be interested in us if we would liberate ourself from the Federation? There all already lots of amarrian who are against the slavery. It is not because there is a minority, if we would be a minority... that all of a sudden everybody with a greater force would like to enslave us.
|
Sah Phyre
Gallente The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:29:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sah Phyre on 31/03/2009 12:30:03
Originally by: Robert Kesada And how exactly would it be? Do you have numbers as any other force in New Eden? Do you think Amarrians would simply look at you and do nothing? For warps sake did you not see what they did to Minmatars? And let me tell you - they were much stronger then, than you will be in thousand years!
Don't be naive - our world is not build on making friends - it is build on making alliances with strongest of them, so that all of us could survive. ILFs are just a bunch of self-righteous, ambitious separatists who cannot tell difference between a dream and reality.
How exactly do you see the Amarr Empire as any sort of threat to Intaki, considering that events you mentioned happened hundreds of years ago (not to mention that of all people you should be the ones aware of dangers of gunboat diplomacy) and that Intaki is a bit too far away from the Empire, not to mention surrounded by Federation systems on all sides?
You're grasping at straws here. If anything's a threat to independent Intaki home system, it's your Federation with its self-righteous agenda. -------------------------------------------- My Faith is my shield. |
|
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:29:00 -
[51]
Just because you teach lion to eat fish, doesn't mean he will stop eating meat.
I guess you are just to persuadable - you see world in colors which it is not. As I said - our world is not a beautiful and peaceful place - under glowing shine of goodness, there is a shadow of destruction and pain.
And Amarrians show it at their best - do you really think that slavery will ever be banned from their Empire? They sing it, but I personally cannot trust it, not till I see it with my own eyes. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
chromez0r
Gallente Dead 2 Rights
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Inara Subaka
Originally by: Passero mus We are free as any other Gallantian.
I just have to know if I'm the only one who caught the irony in this statement?
You do realize that the Federation is one of the more controlling of the 4 major sovereignties, they are simply better at making the people that live under their rule feel like they have a choice in matters. Democracy is a hoax, the wool that the beast hides beneath.
while i don't reside in the federation any longer, i must say that honestly what is your definition of freedom? because to me, being able to make my own decisions, choose where i take myself with my endeavors, should i decide to take a year off for relaxation i can, no-one forced me to work. the choices we can make that involve our personal life is what makes the Federation so "free". sure there are guidelines and rules for people, but without any sort of guidelines there wouldn't be any nation at all, it would be just pure chaos.
oh and please don't tell me about how much freedom other nations get, I'm not talking about pod pilots I'm talking about every day people on the planets living the old fashion life style.
Sure i don't get to have my say in every little decision that effects the federation, but honestly by choice "i don't want to" if i was really that worried i could have "made a decision" in my life to choose that route.
so please miss Subaka, get off your high Uma and stop doing exactly what you claim the federation does "spread propaganda"
|
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 12:39:00 -
[53]
And it is not said that when we are on our own, we could not have allies. Is is not possible to seperate from the Federation in peace, in a more diplomatic way instead of fighting it over in a war?
In the world of New Eden, there are lots of alliances formed from people of all different races that work together as a tight group. Then why should such a thing could not be possible for the Intaki?
Currently their are still lots of Caldarian that think higly of the Intaki so why couldn't we form an ally with those people? There is much possible in this world. if we would face a war against the Intaki people I am surtain we would find a good ally that will fight alongside with us
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 13:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Passero mus The last few days i have learned lots about my Intaki brothers and i believe we CAN survive on our own without the Federation or the State. We are strong enough to speak for ourself.
*Tellnan sighs*
I wish you well. I hope the dream of liberation does not end in disillusionment.
*Pause*
Also, I envy you. ____________ My views are my own |
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 14:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sah Phyre
How exactly do you see the Amarr Empire as any sort of threat to Intaki, considering that events you mentioned happened hundreds of years ago (not to mention that of all people you should be the ones aware of dangers of gunboat diplomacy) and that Intaki is a bit too far away from the Empire, not to mention surrounded by Federation systems on all sides?
You're grasping at straws here. If anything's a threat to independent Intaki home system, it's your Federation with its self-righteous agenda.
Sorry, I overreacted - my mistake! I'm not saying Federation is best choice - for me - it is one big pile of mud and most probably the Federation will raise war against Intaki (can you imagine any government agreeing to form a independent state inside their lands?).Most probably Caldari state will use it to make a full power offense on Federation - a blitzkrieg - if I may say so, reasoning it by helping Intaki. And you know what happens then? Massive holocaust against Intaki - Federation will need to prove a point. It will be total state of war and only winners here can be either Amarrs or Minmatars ( and we all know which ones will use it).
My point wasn't about Intaki staying in Federation - it is about chances of survival and the target's you acknowledge for your nation. You don't want to be a part of federation? Ok, good - but will you really survive alone? And if you will have an ally - do you really think they will be much better than Federation?
I agree on your will for freedom, but you've got to ask yourselves - is it the best moment? The best situation? And the best question - will your children and grandchildren support this decision?
I am against two things here - 1. ILFs, because I just don't like separatists - it's just a matter of time, before they become more aggressive and be called terrorists. 2. Naiveness of people all around. It looks like everybody flies into low-secs by themselves thinking nothing will happen. Same here - each decision (especially political and geographical) has major consequences, sometimes even larger than decision by itself. I'm just asking you to think before jumping into something like this.
------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Megrim
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 14:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Robert Kesada
Originally by: Sah Phyre
How exactly do you see the Amarr Empire as any sort of threat to Intaki, considering that events you mentioned happened hundreds of years ago (not to mention that of all people you should be the ones aware of dangers of gunboat diplomacy) and that Intaki is a bit too far away from the Empire, not to mention surrounded by Federation systems on all sides?
You're grasping at straws here. If anything's a threat to independent Intaki home system, it's your Federation with its self-righteous agenda.
I am against two things here - 1. ILFs, because I just don't like separatists - it's just a matter of time, before they become more aggressive and be called terrorists.
I think it prudent to point out that opinions within the ILF, at least in my experience, are quite varied. Our members are united by a desire to see conditions for the Intaki people and system improved. Intaki self-governance has always been part of the agenda, obviously, but corp policy has never advocated violence or force as a means of gaining any measure of independance.
We are not a group of radical, blinkered terrorists, rather, we are concerned pilots seeking a better life for our people and home system. I consider myself to be quite conservative when it comes to ideas of 'Intaki liberation', and since joining the ILF I have heard nothing I would consider outlandish or radical.
|
Kurokawa Makoto
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 15:03:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Kurokawa Makoto on 31/03/2009 15:07:13 Edited by: Kurokawa Makoto on 31/03/2009 15:03:34
|
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 15:04:00 -
[58]
And what will happen if in 10 - 20 - 50 -100 years nothing will change do you believe that your "brothers and sisters" won't decide to use more critical and dramatical ways of persuading? I'm saying that because it always has happened - when nobody listens to a group of people with one passion, they grow tired and start using radical means. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 17:08:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Saxon Hawke on 31/03/2009 17:12:11 Mr. Kesada,
To answer your question: I plan for the future, but I cannot predict it. I have been actively working toward the goal of Intaki sovereignty for more than two years now. To date, my corp remains small, but we are active, organized and poised to grow.
We have NEVER advocated violent revolution (although we will defend ourselves and our allies against aggression) and we will never consider violence as a means to withdraw from the Federation. I've been called a fool and dreamer, but I'm enough of a realist to realize that we could not hope to defeat the Federation Navy should the powers that be choose to bring its full weight to bear against us.
Likewise, I understand that should the Amarr wish to conquer the Intaki System they could. But they would have to fly their war fleet through the Federation to get here and I don't think that would go over very well. As I alluded earlier, the Caldari have proven that they can take Intaki. However, for the time being, the occupational forces seem to have about as much interest in maintaining the overall operation of the system as the Federation (i.e. none what-so-ever).
In the long histories of humanity, there are examples of city-states existing autonomously whilst completely surrounded by another sovereignty. What need be understood is the fundamental difference between separatism and isolationism. The issue at hand is one of quality of life and the equitable distribution of taxes.
Under the current Federation policy (which was adopted some five generations ago, is long-outdated and sorely in need of up-dating) the Intaki system is left to manage its defenses. However, tax revenue from all transactions in Intaki goes to Villore for the Federation Senate to mete out.
Without income from those taxes, Intaki cannot fund its own Navy and therefore has no defense against the pirates that roam low security regions. With piracy running rampant, the flow of goods and the people to buy them is choked off and the economy is stifled.
The ILF and a number of other like-minded corporations are serving as a stop-gap, using our own resources to provide some degree of protection and to stimulate the local economy. In fact, even Andreus Ixiris has benefited from this, as I can now count him as among my list of customers.
But sales in Intaki are slow and the cost of fighting pirates is high. With the sovereignty to levy its own taxes, Intaki could arm its own Navy and provide for its own defense. Self-determination and self-rule would allow the Intaki to raise themselves up.
However, I -- nor any other pilot in the ILF -- favor using this self-rule toward an antagonistic relation with the Federation. A vibrant Intaki would be a great trading partner with the Federation and vice versa. In fact, a strong Intaki would be an ally for discouraging piracy in a large portion of the Placid Region, all at no cost to the Federation Navy.
If those who cling to their federalist dogma could take a moment to step back and look at the possibilities, I believe they would see that a sovereign Intaki is a good thing for not only the Intaki people, but for everyone involved.
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 17:33:00 -
[60]
Sir Hawke, you dream a fine dream. It is no insult to call you a dreamer, for without dreamers how could humanity advance? To think beyond the likely, to the improbable and formerly impossible, your kind are needed.
I just wish I could share it. ____________ My views are my own |
|
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 17:39:00 -
[61]
Mr. Matkiel,
Why is it that you look so longingly toward our cause, but resign yourself to remain outside it?
|
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 17:48:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Robert Kesada on 31/03/2009 17:50:06 Edited by: Robert Kesada on 31/03/2009 17:49:17 I like what you are saying.
But, and that's a big but - I've known no event in the history of mankind, when dominant state allowed full autonomy or independence without military offensive. And this is when my described situation may appear - in so unstable political atmosphere your move may cause a lot of damage.
In this situation Federation will not allow Intaki to form state - giving up such a large territory and such a cutdown demographically. They would only show their weakness to others, which may lead to unknown, yet marginal political consequences.
That said, I must say - you really showed good political and oratorical skills here. Or maybe it's just you being forward and honest. Whichever it is - I wish you well and who knows - maybe someday I'll jump into Intaki State territory and remember this conversation with a laugh at myself. Just remember - your goal must be your people, not territory. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 18:24:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Saxon Hawke Mr. Matkiel,
Why is it that you look so longingly toward our cause, but resign yourself to remain outside it?
Because I believe that one of two things, possibly both, have to happen for Intaki to be independent. The defeat of the Federation, with all the bloodshed and chaos that would entail; and/or Intaki subject to an orbital bombardment. A bombardment that, while it may not destroy the planet, will ruin it for generations.
Your vision seems to presuppose a Federation that will live up to its ideals. I do not believe that shall ever come to pass. I wish it were otherwise. I truly do. But the Federation is, I think, what it is. And I do not wish to assign to Intaki - or any other world - the fate of Caldari Prime. ____________ My views are my own |
Mort Eveson
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.03.31 19:20:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Mort Eveson on 31/03/2009 19:29:53 Edited by: Mort Eveson on 31/03/2009 19:28:03
Originally by: Robert Kesada
The ILF always have, and always will, argued for peaceful separation from the Federation. May I ask why you don't like separatists? We have worked for safety and security in the Intaki system and will continue to do so, who ever claims to have control. We are not working for ourselves, but for those who live on Intaki, who have to deal with Serpentis drug dealers and physical separation from the rest of the Federation.
We as a corp have being living and surviving in Intaki, so we have proven it can be done. I hope that other Intaki, who have moved away, would also be willing to support their home system, in perticularly security from Mordus Legion and legal commerce from the Syndicate. As I have said before we as an independent Intaki state could act as a method of communication between the Federation and the State.
Saxon has said most of what I planned on saying and more, but I would just like to add that no one should write us off before meeting us and seeing Intaki for themselves.
Mort
|
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.01 05:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mort Eveson
May I ask why you don't like separatists? Mort
As I have said - history shows that separatists prove themselves to be terrorists if their demands are not met. And I can't see it happening - no one will convince me that Federation will just "let go" Intaki. And that leaves two options - full scale war or ILF fight for "freedom". I also cannot fully believe your organization on saying, that you are peaceful and your methods will never go that far, because man is inpatient being and in ten years you might take radical actions. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Ajit Tilak
Gallente Infinite Dreams Inc
|
Posted - 2009.04.01 11:10:00 -
[66]
There is a third option, that of independent development. If the Intaki people and various Corporations take control of the area, in essence ignoring the Federation a form of independence. If the economy builds and the area secures enough the Federation will of course come running for it's share but at that point the region will have developed it's own level of control and be in a position to dicate the terms on which the Federation deals with us.
Could this turn into violence, yes that is a very real possibility. However at this point the instigator of this violence would be the Federation and not the Intaki people, we can take the high ground.
|
Passero mus
|
Posted - 2009.04.01 11:41:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ajit Tilak There is a third option, that of independent development. If the Intaki people and various Corporations take control of the area, in essence ignoring the Federation a form of independence. If the economy builds and the area secures enough the Federation will of course come running for it's share but at that point the region will have developed it's own level of control and be in a position to dicate the terms on which the Federation deals with us.
Could this turn into violence, yes that is a very real possibility. However at this point the instigator of this violence would be the Federation and not the Intaki people, we can take the high ground.
This scenario is the ideal description of whay could be the great Intaki-Gallente war as it was with the Caldari-Gallente war. It also started because the federation would take total control over the regions the caldarian have discovered (without telling the federation).
If the intaki would take control of some regions without the federation than yes, the federation would clame their share after a while. Especially if they would see it an economic advantage.
Therefore i think we should work on a mutual control over the intaki regions or perhaps make an agreement with the federation but than again... Who would know if the Federation would keep their part of the agreement... |
Mort Eveson
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.01 15:26:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Robert Kesada
Originally by: Mort Eveson
May I ask why you don't like separatists? Mort
As I have said - history shows that separatists prove themselves to be terrorists if their demands are not met. And I can't see it happening - no one will convince me that Federation will just "let go" Intaki. And that leaves two options - full scale war or ILF fight for "freedom". I also cannot fully believe your organization on saying, that you are peaceful and your methods will never go that far, because man is inpatient being and in ten years you might take radical actions.
I feel genuinely sorry for your lack of belief in human morality. With time, with patience and with will anything is possible. I can never see the ILF becoming a terrorist organisation, especially not with Saxon in charge, but I can see some Intaki loosing patience. We will remain a voice of calm.
If you cannot put faith in our resolve then the practical arguments hold true, a violent uprising by Intaki pod pilots would most likely be met by the full force of the Federation Navy, so that other systems don't get similar ideas and this would lead to far greater harm to the Intaki people.
Although we may be accused of being dreamers and idealists, we are not fanatics, we are not mad men. We realise that there are consequences to our actions, but I trust the universe will unfold as it should, the way will be revealed.
|
Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 02:47:00 -
[69]
If you think that the Intaki would do worse with the State than with the Federation, then I invite you to compare the relative lot of the Achura with that of the Intaki.
The Caldari State expects those who interact with it to show competence, not to conform to its ideas of what an ideal culture should be. The Federation expects minorities to conform to the cultural values of the Federation. Witness how they have worked to reduce the cultural uniqueness of the Jin-Mei. Witness how they acted towards the Caldari.
From an independent standpoint, the most rational action on the part of the Intaki interested in retaining their own cultural identity is to forge ties with the State until such time as they can stand alone. Until then, the State has a much better record when it comes to non-interference with native cultures.
|
Natalcya Katla
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 03:29:00 -
[70]
What does it matter, Vikarion? There's not a single part of Intaki culture worth preserving, in any case.
|
|
chromez0r
Gallente Dead 2 Rights
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 04:06:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Vikarion If you think that the Intaki would do worse with the State than with the Federation, then I invite you to compare the relative lot of the Achura with that of the Intaki.
The Caldari State expects those who interact with it to show competence, not to conform to its ideas of what an ideal culture should be. The Federation expects minorities to conform to the cultural values of the Federation. Witness how they have worked to reduce the cultural uniqueness of the Jin-Mei. Witness how they acted towards the Caldari.
From an independent standpoint, the most rational action on the part of the Intaki interested in retaining their own cultural identity is to forge ties with the State until such time as they can stand alone. Until then, the State has a much better record when it comes to non-interference with native cultures.
My Jin-mei brothers still live there lives the way they choose, hell we really never did anything other then our own way of life until recently, you really did choose the wrong group of people to talk about to use as an example. to this day the jin-mei are still very much living how they've lived for centuries.
|
Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 05:19:00 -
[72]
Originally by: chromez0r My Jin-mei brothers still live there lives the way they choose, hell we really never did anything other then our own way of life until recently, you really did choose the wrong group of people to talk about to use as an example. to this day the jin-mei are still very much living how they've lived for centuries.
Oh? So, the Gallente have not done what they can to weaken the caste system?
Yes, they let you keep some of it intact. How magnanimous of them. Truly, you have excellent masters.
Fool.
|
chromez0r
Gallente Dead 2 Rights
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 05:49:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: chromez0r My Jin-mei brothers still live there lives the way they choose, hell we really never did anything other then our own way of life until recently, you really did choose the wrong group of people to talk about to use as an example. to this day the jin-mei are still very much living how they've lived for centuries.
Oh? So, the Gallente have not done what they can to weaken the caste system?
Yes, they let you keep some of it intact. How magnanimous of them. Truly, you have excellent masters.
Fool.
what makes you think they have forced us to change our ways, Mr "im going to atempt to downgrade the gallente as much as i can even if i have no idea" the jin-mei people have always kept to themselves, and the gallente have only improved our way of life.
To be honest, our own way of life has caused the most damage in our people, with all the quarreling that goes on between the overlords of each sang-do.
so once again i find myself saying to yet another uneducated caldari citizen, stop doing what you say the gallente do, which is SPREADING PROPAGANDA
|
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 08:41:00 -
[74]
when two nations war, is it surprising that their supporters will take up arms to defend their country? I've tried missiles, I don't like them. Tried railguns, I'm exceptional in their use, still don't like them. Tried words, had mixed results, found I like them the most.
propaganda is weaponry pilot, and I daresay both sides will continue using it.
The thing is that the Jin Mei caste system was horribly wasteful for your people. How recently has it been since women attained equal status in your... society at least, though not necessarily in the hearts and minds of all your people? Even a few generations, even minds as brilliant as Anneka Tong's would have been consigned to a life in some kitchen or whatever, all her talent for genetic engineering wasted.
I don't think anybody can reasonably attack the Gallente for changing that about your people - they were, after all, legitimately liberating and introducing freedom to the lives of millions. What they did to the Caldari was something very different. We shouldn't be attempting to draw parallels where none exist. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 09:57:00 -
[75]
Whether one agrees with the changes to Jin-Mei society or not, it is simple fact that the Federation has undertaken sustained actions to try and change what the Jin-Mei were and are.
One can argue as to whether or not the changes are beneficial or harmful also, but the changes are driven by the Federation's intolerant desire to change everyone and thing into Gallente clones. In that, amusingly, they are no different from the Amarr. ____________ My views are my own |
chromez0r
Gallente Dead 2 Rights
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 10:34:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Stitcher
The thing is that the Jin Mei caste system was horribly wasteful for your people. How recently has it been since women attained equal status in your... society at least, though not necessarily in the hearts and minds of all your people? Even a few generations, even minds as brilliant as Anneka Tong's would have been consigned to a life in some kitchen or whatever, all her talent for genetic engineering wasted.
3 generations ago i believe (4 if you take into account the current generation of kids) these things were brought into effect. This wasn't something enforced at gunpoint tho is what im getting at, it was put forward as such and eventually accepted. The Jin-mei have been a part of the federation for many generations and as you've even pointed out its only recently that it has come into effect, sure there was influence from the Gallente putting forth the idea but wasn't Forced upon us at Blaster point like some people are trying to make out.
Originally by: Stitcher
I don't think anybody can reasonably attack the Gallente for changing that about your people - they were, after all, legitimately liberating and introducing freedom to the lives of millions. What they did to the Caldari was something very different. We shouldn't be attempting to draw parallels where none exist.
Thank you for agreeing with me stitcher, the jin-mei and the caldari are two completely different situations.
|
Inara Subaka
Caldari Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2009.04.02 22:29:00 -
[77]
Originally by: chromez0r 3 generations ago i believe (4 if you take into account the current generation of kids) these things were brought into effect. This wasn't something enforced at gunpoint tho is what im getting at, it was put forward as such and eventually accepted. The Jin-mei have been a part of the federation for many generations and as you've even pointed out its only recently that it has come into effect, sure there was influence from the Gallente putting forth the idea but wasn't Forced upon us at Blaster point like some people are trying to make out.
While I find your former degradation of your female populace insulting, and rather foolish (obviously, Matriarchal societies are far better off *wink*), you also happen to be... misled.
You are correct in saying that the Federation did not hold blasters over your home planet and force you to adapt... no, they are much more cunning in their cultural assimilations since their folly with the Caldari a couple hundred years ago. They change you over time now, make you think it is your own choices, the evolution of your own culture, that brought them about.
By the stars, they even tried to mold the Republic from their tribalistic ways and form a similar, and false, sense of the majorities individual rights and opinions matter in governmental decisions.
|
Andromedous Aplec
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 22:26:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Inara Subaka
Originally by: Passero mus We are free as any other Gallantian.
I just have to know if I'm the only one who caught the irony in this statement?
You do realize that the Federation is one of the more controlling of the 4 major sovereignties, they are simply better at making the people that live under their rule feel like they have a choice in matters. Democracy is a hoax, the wool that the beast hides beneath.
Andromedous Aplec *** Ambassador ILF *** Isha - Silpa Division |
Sumerio Rayej
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.03 23:58:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Sumerio Rayej on 03/04/2009 23:58:07
Originally by: Robert Kesada Edited by: Robert Kesada on 31/03/2009 17:50:06 But, and that's a big but - I've known no event in the history of mankind, when dominant state allowed full autonomy or independence without military offensive.
Oh, I beg to differ. This may be going *way* back in the history of mankind, but have you ever read about the time in history when we lived only on the Earth, and the world was dominated by 2 superpowerful nations - the United States of America and the Soviet Union. Eventually, the Soviet Union failed in its quest for domination of the world, and 15 states peacefully seceded from the Union. You might say, "oh, but several wars were fought between those states in the wake of the breakup." You would be right, but those wars were relatively few, and peaceful secession did occur. And that is certainly not the only time in history that such a thing has happened. It will happen again. It can happen for the Intaki.
|
AncientGuardian
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 10:50:00 -
[80]
As being a member of the ILF for 2+ years. I am a person (who is not afraid to admit) that is very privy to whom I see as my "overloard". I have my own personal feelings toward what happens, and who makes it happen.
I am with the ILF in support to bring peace and prosperity to Intaki. Even tho the Federation has left us dry, I personally do not see the Caldari fit to provide the coverage. The main reason for this feeling is their allied stance with the falsely religious fanatics known as the Amarr, Who when given the chance would see the intaki people as their Property. A group so foolish in their goals to attempt to claim the Jove as their property. Yes they were put to shame in that foolish, and yet very entertaining move, but they still hold their "Property" without guilt.
Its not that I "hate" the Caldari, its that they ally with such fools.
This is the only holding feeling i have for the federation, is simply their disgust with the Amarr's treatment of "Property", for this, i know that the Federation would not allow their ownership in Intaki.
It is the right of every Man and Woman of any nationality to claim their own personal freedom(s). This is the root cause of my dedication to the ILF. ILF seeks the Intaki to be Free, and protected. Something that the Federation gave up, and the Caldari only do on a short leaved Whim.
My Personal goal while in the service of the ILF, is to see enforcement in Intaki. As Saxon said, the Intaki people pay their taxes, like nearly all other citizens, but yet the Federation cannot provide funds to provide a single policing agency for the system, (and even more confusing, the very president himself, is intaki, and he has no guilt of this?)
-AGs .02 isk of the day.
Quote:
'Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts'
Quote:
If I ever saw an amputee getting hanged, I would start yelling out letters.
|
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 13:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: AncientGuardian (and even more confusing, the very president himself, is intaki, and he has no guilt of this?)
The president cares for nothing but the primacy of his own power. He no longer even maintains the pretence of having principles, why should he care for what he doubtless views as backwater planet. I would not be surprised if in private he didn't say he was well rid of it. |
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 07:46:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Sumerio Rayej Edited by: Sumerio Rayej on 03/04/2009 23:58:07
Originally by: Robert Kesada Edited by: Robert Kesada on 31/03/2009 17:50:06 But, and that's a big but - I've known no event in the history of mankind, when dominant state allowed full autonomy or independence without military offensive.
Oh, I beg to differ. This may be going *way* back in the history of mankind, but have you ever read about the time in history when we lived only on the Earth, and the world was dominated by 2 superpowerful nations - the United States of America and the Soviet Union. Eventually, the Soviet Union failed in its quest for domination of the world, and 15 states peacefully seceded from the Union. You might say, "oh, but several wars were fought between those states in the wake of the breakup." You would be right, but those wars were relatively few, and peaceful secession did occur. And that is certainly not the only time in history that such a thing has happened. It will happen again. It can happen for the Intaki.
Oh? I think you should really re-study those knowledge of yours. There were no wars for the independence, first of all - struggle for independence yes, but no battles. Secondly - The Soviet Union ended its existence and that was how those counties become independent - there is a big difference with separating from still-existent federation. I know this because my roots are from there and it is not pleasant when somebody talks clear lies about happenings there. So, please - don't talk about things you don't know. Also you've forgot to talk about third side of those years - China, role of which you've decreased magnificently and Europe as well.
If you can show me any separation within territory with no military or terrorist conflict and with real proof, please do. Otherwise I would suggest you to reconsider your statement and study more about things you bring into convesation. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Jyotmimana Karana
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 15:03:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Robert Kesada If you can show me any separation within territory with no military or terrorist conflict and with real proof, please do. Otherwise I would suggest you to reconsider your statement and study more about things you bring into convesation.
Since we are speaking of "Terran mythology," (which I find to be incredibly interesting, but hardly "real" in the sense that Mr. Kesada and Mr. Rayej do) I will share a few examples I have come across in my studies of folklore.
Using the date system most commonly associated with Terran mythology:
Belgium seceded from the Netherlands 1830; Norway from Sweden in 1905; Singapore from the Malaysian Federation in 1965. Furthermore, a Czech and a Slovak republic were created out of Czechoslovakia through secession from each other in 1993. According to the legends, each of these was secessionist movements was carried out peacefully through mutual negotiation.
Now, if we can put an end to storytime, I suggest we return to discussions about the here and now. The Intaki System is devolving deeper into chaos with each passing day.
|
Robert Kesada
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 19:10:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Jyotmimana Karana Edited by: Jyotmimana Karana on 06/04/2009 15:35:37
Originally by: Robert Kesada If you can show me any separation within territory with no military or terrorist conflict and with real proof, please do. Otherwise I would suggest you to reconsider your statement and study more about things you bring into convesation.
Since we are speaking of "Terran mythology," (which I find to be incredibly interesting, but hardly "real" in the sense that Mr. Kesada and Mr. Rayej do) I will share a few examples I have come across in my studies of folklore.
Using the date system most commonly associated with Terran mythology:
Belgium seceded from the Netherlands 1830; Norway from Sweden in 1905; Singapore from the Malaysian Federation in 1965. Furthermore, a Czech and a Slovak republic were created out of Czechoslovakia through secession from each other in 1993. According to the legends, each of these secessionist movements was carried out peacefully through mutual negotiation.
Now, if we can put an end to storytime, I suggest we return to discussions about the here and now. The Intaki System is devolving deeper into chaos with each passing day.
Finally someone shut me up and did it the way I asked and in most beautiful way! I asked for facts and all the time all I've got was "I think" or " we think", not the actual facts. Thank you Mr. Karana -it was a pleasure. ------------------------------------------------- Truth is only one way of thinking |
Lief Siddhe
Independent Faction
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 11:49:00 -
[85]
The Federation has it's drawbacks. I still prefer it to a corporation-based government focused on profit.
If Intaki ever becomes a sovereign state, even if it included just one solar system, I will fully back it up. I am sure there are many other Intaki pod pilots who would come and support an independent Intaki.
My vision of Intaki would be something akin to a borderzone, a melting pot, between the Gallente Federation, Caldari State, Intaki Syndicate and Mordu's Legion factions. Intaki should be a high-sec zone in the middle of low-sec and 0.0 space. We should have our own police, made of Intaki pilots from the abovementioned 4 factions who are truly intent on keeping peace, not agressing their respective rivals, for the good of Intaki.
Intaki as people are very spiritual, much more so than Amarr. While Amarr believe in their God and Scriptures and follow them blindly, the Intaki way has always been looking at the universal truths and progress, something that our artists have been using for centuries to create universally beautiful art forms. Our diplomats are able to see past the national, racial, religious and other forms of bias because we understand that it doesn't matter. What matters is how you live your life and how you grasp the concept of existence, death and rebirth, something that only a few people of other ancestries have ever experienced, and these are only pod pilots I'm talking about. A huge number of people living in EVE can't even begin to grasp the idea, but Intaki as people find it a normal part of their life.
I digressed. I'd like to see several things happening:
1) Souro giving his personal opinion of the current situation on Intaki and how he sees Intaki future.
2) News from Intaki planetside. We can argue all we want if we don't know what the average Intaki resident really feels and wishes.
3) Multilateral talks being arranged between representatives of Intaki V, the Federation, the State, the Syndicate and Mordu's Legion to discuss the possible future of Intaki system as a true "neutral" zone.
And that would be just the start. I was somewhere Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
Jon Elleder
Gallente NephTEK
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 16:32:00 -
[86]
All the claims about the Intaki "desperate situation", mostly from the excited ILF fellows, arise from the sad security status of the Placid region. Well, that's true.
But is Placid in any different status that many regions in the Federation space, and in fact, all four factions' space? The situation in Placid is nearly the same that many other citizens, not Intaki, are suffering these times. Why in the case of Placid are we suffering an "ethnic aggression"? Do we think we are so special?
Yesterday it was a sad day for me. One mission carried me to the Seylin system. Most of you may remember it (well, perhaps Minmatar don't).
The terrible vision of an entire planet made ashes, where half a billion human beings lived, moved me to laugh while thinking on the "unbearable suffering" we Intaki are feeling.
In a universe where things like Seylin occur, we can't be so selfish and think our problems are so important. We have to be united. Will be?
|
Mort Eveson
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 16:52:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Mort Eveson on 07/04/2009 16:56:13 Edited by: Mort Eveson on 07/04/2009 16:53:41
Originally by: Lief Siddhe
You make some good points Pilot Siddhe and its encouraging to see other Intaki talking about it, not just us "excited ILF fellows". A melting pot is exactly how I would imagine a neutral Intaki state.
Originally by: Jon Elleder
Pilot Elleder, I do understand your point, there is a lot of evil in this world, both natural and caused by man. Intaki is special to us because it is the home of our ancestors, its where our people live, our families. As one of the founding nations of the Federation it is a sad state of affairs that we are relegated to being a dangerous backwater. And it is an utterly beautiful planet. But I fully agree, we are not the only ones in this kind of position and we are not the worst of in the universe. I support Intaki because it is the tiny bit of the universe that I'm trying to make better. I can't wave a magic wand and make the world a better place, but perhaps I can make this corner of it a bit better.
|
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 18:11:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Hamish Grayson on 07/04/2009 18:12:14
Originally by: Lief Siddhe The Federation has it's drawbacks. I still prefer it to a corporation-based government focused on profit.
It's grand vision you have brother, and one worth fighting for - but do you really believe that Quafe has any less control over law makers and officials within it's territories than Lai Dai? ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Lief Siddhe
Independent Faction
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 18:57:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Lief Siddhe on 07/04/2009 18:59:08 Personally, I'd prefer to have neither the Federation nor the State. Unfortunately, we live in times when politics is as normal as eating and drinking. With millions and billions of people living light-years apart, I understand the need for creating factions and alliances.
I have done a lot of work for the Federation. I have nothing against the Caldari, Amarr or Matari people as such, but I admit that simply based on my bias I prefer the Federation democracy or even Matari tribalism to Caldari corporatism or Amarr theocracy, simply because I personally think that the Intaki frame of mind would be more acceptable to these two political organizations.
I haven't been to planetside Intaki for a while now, but what I can say is that we're (generally speaking) easy-going people who respect others and their differences. I don't like it one bit that we're now wedged into this stupid nationalist conflict that is being used by figures in shadows for their own profit, playing the card of "old national pride", revenge and whatnot.
If I could say there could exist a truly neutral faction in the EVE galaxy, my bet would be on my fellow Intaki.
It's hard to explain that while I am a humanist above all and can't bear no personal grudge against anyone based on their heritage, I still feel resentment that Caldari military personnel (be they militia pod pilots or the State Navy is the same to me) are now orbiting Intaki. The majority of people living on Intaki support being in the Federation, or otherwise we would have expressed our lack of support for it more often.
That being said, I have stopped doing the Federation dirty work lately, but if I hear news that the population of Intaki is suffering because of the current siege of the system, I'll drop whatever I'm doing and go there to blast any evildoers out of the sky, or get reborn trying. I was somewhere Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
Passero mus
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 06:22:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Lief Siddhe
If I could say there could exist a truly neutral faction in the EVE galaxy, my bet would be on my fellow Intaki.
Isn't that because of the fact our cause is an independent Intaki without the Federation or the State telling us what to do? We are neutral to both the state as the federation because in the first place we want to an independent Intaki without a war and by choosing side in the Caldari-Gallente war we definitly wont help us in that case...
We have to fight for our own cause and by creating enemys we wont be helping it...
|
|
Downcycle
Gallente The Erinyes
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:22:00 -
[91]
My dear Lief, you are both noble and wise my gentle brother. I too have followed our peoples plight with growing concern and interest, and with so many others trying to involve themselves for personal gain, and so many others attempting to dictate what is best for a people not their own, I cannot help but worry for the future. I, like you, desire Intaki independence with great fervor. No other race seems to understand the vision and clarity that comes with following the path, and understanding Ida. Unfortunately, for all the chatter that comes through on the topic, remarkably few of the voices are actually Intaki ones. I have said it before, and I repeat it now...we are our own people, and we always have been...leave us to make our own choices, and decide our own destiny. The Gallente federation brought us into the war, and the Caldari brought it to our doorstep. Neither of you have my peoples' interests at heart. ...A Ghost in the Mist, Don't Bother Looking I Won't Be There... |
Lief Siddhe
Independent Faction
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 21:53:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Lief Siddhe on 08/04/2009 21:55:00 Well, up to now it seems that the general Intaki population still favored being in the Federation, and that I respect. However, with the recent events, I wonder if there will be some different opinions to be heard from representatives of the Intaki people in the Senate.
We will have to wait and see how the future unfolds.
And I thank you for calling me noble, but I am not. I am a mass murderer. I sometimes don't even consider myself human anymore. Recently I went into orbit over our home planet, and while I felt it breathe, at the same time I felt very alienated from the rest of our people.
Then I flew to our red giant sun, and I realized: compared to an average Intaki, I am as the sun is to a planet. Made out of the same particles, yet arranged in such a way that I have become more. Yet one day I will also pass away, and something new will be created to carry my legacy through the ages. The very thought fills me with awe every second of my life.
I hope that both the Caldari and the Federation recognize that peace is more balancing and offers so much more to learn than warring over the past. On the other hand, I know that I sound like a bigot, because I am also ready to destroy in the name of preserving our planet and our serene way of life. Such is the way of Intaki poet-warriors, although I don't consider myself either a poet nor a warrior compared to true masters of the Arts.
I hope it doesn't come to that. Peace & keep on ridin' I was somewhere Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 23:44:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Downcycle No other race seems to understand the vision and clarity that comes with following the path, and understanding Ida.
The idea that the way belongs only to the Intaki contradicts what I've been taught. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Lief Siddhe
Independent Faction
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 00:11:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Lief Siddhe on 09/04/2009 00:18:03 The way doesn't belong only to those who are Intaki by birth, but it comes natural to those of our bloodline. It is a part of us as faith is to the Amarr, only we don't convert it to organized religion. We seek inward, while they seek outwards for enlightenment.
It is strange, sometimes I think that in some ways, we and the Amarr are so similar, yet so different. But one also can't generalize all people born of some bloodline or the other, because there are many factors that contribute to somebody becoming the person he or she one day dies and is reborn as. I was somewhere Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 00:27:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Lief Siddhe Edited by: Lief Siddhe on 09/04/2009 00:18:03 The way doesn't belong only to those who are Intaki by birth, but it comes natural to those of our bloodline. It is a part of us as faith is to the Amarr, only we don't convert it to organized religion. We seek inward, while they seek outwards for enlightenment.
I don't believe in the idea that it comes more naturally to the Intaki than other bloodlines. I believe there are billions who follow it even if they call it something else - the core essence of Ida can be found in the core essence of many ideologies in the cluster. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Downcycle
Gallente The Erinyes
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 00:53:00 -
[96]
Time makes monsters of us all it seems, and in light of the wars and trials and tribulations that come with it, it is to be expected. There is more to your situation Lief than your path may currently reveal to you, but as I am sure you know, all things follow a cyclic nature, and it is your past actions that lead you to a point where the lessons you have learned from those actions will come into play and allow you to play your vital role in the fragile and intricate universe we all live in. As for our Caldari friend that seems to feel left out, if you have discovered and truely understand Ida, than you understand the futility of occupying Intaki space. No one person or race can lay claim to the Way, and it is a path chosen by all reguardless if they know it or not. My people discovered Ida, we did not create it, as such it is only logical that the road be open to all who would choose to travel it. ...A Ghost in the Mist, Don't Bother Looking I Won't Be There... |
Lief Siddhe
Independent Faction
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 00:55:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Hamish Grayson I don't believe in the idea that it comes more naturally to the Intaki than other bloodlines. I believe there are billions who follow it even if they call it something else - the core essence of Ida can be found in the core essence of many ideologies in the cluster.
Oh, of course, since Ida simply means "to consider". We all live and we all think, therefore we all consider.
What I meant to say is that our culture, as it is, promotes this "looking inward" aspect more than those of other people, who are perhaps through living in different circumstances more prone to including something besides the "inner space" such as tribes, religions, competitiveness or hedonism, to use the basest of terms.
All of us live some form of Ida. I never meant to exclude us from the rest of humanity as superior or different, just on the average... more calm. And I am still relatively young and hot-headed for an Intaki, hehe. I lived in the democracy of the Federation and in a tribe in the Matari republic, I have travelled through the State and visited the Empire. Although I personally can't agree with everything I saw and even directly oppose some of it, I can still on a basic level understand all the people with all of their different agendas and motivations and empathize, from the noblest saint of what we would call "good" to the pure spawn of what we would call "evil".
But it is hard for me to try and explain such things, because my words cannot express what I think and want to say, so maybe it is best to quote Vremaja Idama, one of our most respected elders:
"Much of this is crystalised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki. Some try to belittle us by calling it "the path of least resistance", although that is a good description!
We who follow the Way aim to live a life of moderation, not succumbing to the extremes of self-indulgence or self-denial. Ida is a way of living, we do not have any beliefs in a heaven or hell, and do not take any writing or saying as "truth". Ida is a path, but Intaki are expected to walk it themselves."
Peace & keep on ridin'
I was somewhere Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 01:52:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Downcycle As for our Caldari friend that seems to feel left out, if you have discovered and truely understand Ida, than you understand the futility of occupying Intaki space.
I don't recall ever hearing you speak about an independent Intaki, the State has occupied Intaki prime and now you and others are openly and vehemently supporting it were before there was silence. The chances of a bill to raise Intaki prime to highsec status passing through the senate is now much higher than before the occupation. The showing of Caldari strength in capturing Intaki prime is a reminder to the Federal government that upgrading this proxy war to a full fledged galactic war would be devastating to both sides and does so with minimal casualties. Perhaps you should consider all the angles. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 04:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Hamish Grayson I don't recall ever hearing you speak about an independent Intaki, the State has occupied Intaki prime and now you and others are openly and vehemently supporting it were before there was silence.
Mr. Grayson, I have actively called for the creation of an independent Intaki state for more than two years. And I took up the standard only after it had been borne by others before me.
This was our original announcement nearly 28 months ago. I invite you to read it, and while you're there read some of the other essays and announcements there. It may provide you with a little more detail into the Intaki independence movement.
|
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 04:48:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Hamish Grayson on 09/04/2009 04:52:37
I'm aware of your movement friend, but you have to admit it hasn't been in the limelight for awhile and the ILF hasn't made a press release for some time nor have you had this much support among the capsuleer community in many months. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
|
Downcycle
Gallente The Erinyes
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 11:33:00 -
[101]
If history has taught the Intaki people anything, it is that through our own independence we shall find peace. When the Gallente found us so long ago, the only real thing they gave us was technology, we came into the federation because we wanted peace and were excited to find another strand of humanity in the cold and uninviting cosmos. When the troubles started between the Gallente and Caldari people, it was we who were troubled, and a great deal of Intaki pilots left with you and fought by the Caldari against the Federation, only to be run off due to paranoia. We have always had our own misgivings with the Federation, and this is why we have so many of our own splinter groups already. Now, war is upon us again, and while we, the Intaki people preferrably wish for peace, we are caught in the middle of a war that our people did not start, and our home....MY home, is suddenly a trophy used by the Caldari to prove a point? Call it what you will, but any occupation during a time of war is a heavy burden for the people to bear, people who did not do anything to justify the action, people who supported the Caldari in their time of need, people who yearn for peace and freedom to live their lives in a way that all living and setient beings deserve. As I mentioned before, Ida teaches the cyclic nature of things, and the occupation of Intaki is the first step towards the Caldari becoming the the thing that caused them to leave the Federation in the first place. I bear my Caldari and Gallente cousins no ill will, I would just like you to see the error of your ways, move on, and let my people get on our way to a true neutral and independent way of life. ...A Ghost in the Mist, Don't Bother Looking I Won't Be There... |
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 14:19:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Hamish Grayson on 09/04/2009 14:19:54
Originally by: Downcycle Intaki pilots left with you and fought by the Caldari against the Federation, only to be run off due to paranoia.
We were not 'run off', we are still living in the State and quite comfortably - even under the provist regime. Despite what they may teach you at the University of Caille, the Waschi Uprising is symbol of acceptance of our ancestors by the Civire and Deteis as Caldari. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Lief Siddhe
Independent Faction
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 14:31:00 -
[103]
This is the current University of Caille curriculum (in short) concerning the Waschi uprising:
A group of more militant exiles went to the Caldari and joined the Caldari Navy. They were put under the command of the Caldari commander Muryia Mordu and earned a reputation as an elite fighting unit. After the war they were allowed to settle in Waschi City on the planet of Kamokor IV. They remained there until xenophobic sentiment among the Caldari there lead to violence and ultimately drove them out. They called on Mordu for assistance and went on to form the mercenary corp Mordu's Legion.
Originally formed by a group of disenfranchised Intaki soldiers and led by military mastermind Mordu, the Legion has set up home in Pure Blind and now operates as a professional mercenary outfit. While losing their long-standing contract with ORE during the latter's recent hostile takeover by the Serpentis was a blow, Mordu's Legion is still very much a force to be reckoned with.
The Legion didn't actually participate in the fighting, but their rapid response and clear willingness to get involved has earned them plenty of additional friends within the Caldari Navy and the megacorp security forces. On top of this, recruitment activity is at an all time high; soldiers from both the Federation and the State, united by their disaffection with their respective leaderships, are quietly knocking on the Legion's door. The rank and file are back to normal operational status now, but the word on the grapevine is that Mordu and his lieutenants are still ensconced in their war room and pumping a prodigious amount of encrypted data out into their strategic mainframes.
We do not know more, unless Mordu and some of his Legion come as guest speekers to a UoC seminar. There were plans while I was still at the Uni to organize such an event, and who knows, it might even happen now, since many Intaki professors and students are very active in the political life of the Federation. I was somewhere Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 15:00:00 -
[104]
Those that attacked the Intaki were a very small group of extremist, a minority, and they were dealt with by the majority. Most of the Intaki were too old, to young or too settled in to go running off with for adventure and glory with a mercenary unit. The rest remained on Kamokor IV. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Downcycle
Gallente The Erinyes
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 15:21:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Downcycle on 09/04/2009 15:22:02 Mr. Grayson, while I respect your rememberings on the ordeals my people suffered through after the war, I assure you the Intaki are fine record keepers and have a quite capable list of historians. The point is, it happened, and here we stand again, only now there is a menacing war machine hoving in orbit around the planet my parents and grandparents reside on. You can try to spin it however you like, and you may even attempt to justify the Navy prescence there, however, you would do well to think about how your family felt when they looked up and saw the Gallente forces flying overhead during the first war. My point is things have come full circle, and now the roles are reversed, and it is the Caldari people agressively occupying space and threatening innocent civilians. We can sit and argue history all day if you like, but as Lief clarified so generously for you, the Intaki are not your enemy. ...A Ghost in the Mist, Don't Bother Looking I Won't Be There... |
Van Cleef
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 15:44:00 -
[106]
Exactly what forces are occupying Intaki? Combat Operations in the Intaki theatre ceased once organized resistance from Federation Navy assets were destroyed. At no point in time did CAIN state, for example, that our goal was to Occupy the Intaki system or any of the surrounding systems. The goal of the operation was to give the local forces the ability and the chance to defend their own system and excercise authority over their own system as they saw fit.
If the local forces are unable to reach that goal the fault is with them and them alone. CAIN forces still provide patrols against pirates and theives in the area but do so on a limited basis. If the native forces need assistance CAIN has always provided it, however native forces still need to exhibt the ability to operate effectively for any assistance to be effective. -----------------------------------------------
Admiral Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 15:45:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Downcycle
the Intaki are not your enemy.
Since there is as much Intaki blood in my veins as Civre, I'd say so. ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Zendoren
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 08:58:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Van Cleef
If the local forces are unable to reach that goal the fault is with them and them alone. CAIN forces still provide patrols against pirates and theives in the area but do so on a limited basis. If the native forces need assistance CAIN has always provided it, however native forces still need to exhibt the ability to operate effectively for any assistance to be effective.
I have a few words to say on this topic.
1) I am not a RP, and intaki is where i learned my low-sec life style at.
2) I have not seen a sole in intaki from this thread except for members of CAIN and ILF. Asfar as i am consern, eather come down to low-sec grab a thorax, stand on post and defind the Faction Warfair sponds your self or keep you opinyions to your self like I have.
3)United Star Federation has provided more Anti-pirate support than the ILF and CAIN combine. with that said, i think it is a joak that CAIN and ILF has a public announcement about there other supportive role in intaki other than taking down Federation faction warfair outposts or runing the ocasional mission in system...
4) Last and the main reason why i have posted anything here. It has come to my attention that undue attention has been brought to intaki due to this discussion. USF is currently ocupining/resting in intaki and the surrounding low-sec systems. with this said, USF has recently been getting undue attention due to this discussion that is being held here and had directly led to some loss of USF asset. My request is simple. Please take this discussion else where other than the public eve-online forums. This is not a complaint but a request.
Thank you! Zendoren -++ |
Lief Siddhe
Independent Faction
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 10:55:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Zendoren
Thank you! Zendoren
This is a public discussion channel and it servers exactly this purpose - to discuss things that can or can't be done in our ships, with our governments, and the grander scheme of things.
Not every problem can be solved by shooting a bunker. I was somewhere Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
Downcycle
Gallente The Erinyes
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 11:52:00 -
[110]
(I think Zen glossed over the thread, I happen to be Intaki and proud!)
To the members of CAIN, if your intentions are as noble and helpful as you claim, and you are earnestly concerned about the people, why would you allow the state war machine to target the system? You yourselves may not have followed suit, but I am not just referring to your organization. If your goal is to aid the Intaki, then I am curious what has been done. In all fairness, I am listening with an open mind, and this is your chance to convince me that you are only here to help. ...A Ghost in the Mist, Don't Bother Looking I Won't Be There... |
|
Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 16:34:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Saxon Hawke on 10/04/2009 16:36:20
Originally by: Zendoren
1) I am not a RP, and intaki is where i learned my low-sec life style at.
2) I have not seen a sole in intaki from this thread except for members of CAIN and ILF. Asfar as i am consern, eather come down to low-sec grab a thorax, stand on post and defind the Faction Warfair sponds your self or keep you opinyions to your self like I have.
3)United Star Federation has provided more Anti-pirate support than the ILF and CAIN combine. with that said, i think it is a joak that CAIN and ILF has a public announcement about there other supportive role in intaki other than taking down Federation faction warfair outposts or runing the ocasional mission in system...
4) Last and the main reason why i have posted anything here. It has come to my attention that undue attention has been brought to intaki due to this discussion. USF is currently ocupining/resting in intaki and the surrounding low-sec systems. with this said, USF has recently been getting undue attention due to this discussion that is being held here and had directly led to some loss of USF asset. My request is simple. Please take this discussion else where other than the public eve-online forums. This is not a complaint but a request.
Zendoren, allow me to briefly address your concerns. I would also be happy to talk with you at greater length when next we meet space:
1. Every pilot in space has a role to play, whether they acknowledge it or not. How much attention they pay to the details is all that varies. Additionally, living your low-sec lifestyle in Intaki is part of the reason the system is unstable.
2. This post was created by the ILF in response to CAIN activity. Both corps actively operate in the system and have legitimate cause to comment. However, all pod pilots are permitted to post comments to these forums even if they have not taken up arms in defense of a single system anywhere in the universe.
3. It could be argued conversely that the USF has also conducted more pirate activity in Intaki than the ILF and CAIN combined. (This goes back to your low-sec lifestyle mentioned earlier and also the lack of stability in the system.) Furthermore, I find it a bit insulting that you fail to take into account ILF support of USF assets that were attacked in Intaki recently. While we have suffered losses in support of the system generally, we have bled for your alliance specifically.
4. I would counter that the attention the USF has been given lately is not the result of this discussion, but of your alliance's "low-sec lifestyle." What proof have you to offer that this thread is the cause of your problems? I can point directly to an incident the morning of 3/31/09 when one of your pilots was involved in the destruction of a Falcon and its pod piloted by a member of the very corp that is now targeting your assets.
The ILF has risked a great deal to help defend your Intaki assets, Zendoren. We may very well have called down the wrath of an alliance that is vastly beyond our means to face. We have already suffered losses as a result of this decision. However, we do so without complaint or remorse. We recognize the contributions USF has made to the Intaki system and willingly and gladly make this sacrifice in defense of the Intaki System.
|
Van Cleef
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 19:48:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Zendoren
1) I am not a RP, and intaki is where i learned my low-sec life style at.
Please take this discussion else where other than the public eve-online forums. This is not a complaint but a request.
You do realize you are on the RolePlaying boards, and not CAOD.
There is a storyline to eve, it's not just cool graphics.
CAIN flew with USF about two or three years ago in Placid on a bunch of joint ops.
We did come down with Thoraxes,even brought a few Vexors, and we did fight to get what we wanted.
-----------------------------------------------
Admiral Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Yuri Intaki
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 05:26:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Van Cleef The goal of the operation was to give the local forces the ability and the chance to defend their own system and excercise authority over their own system as they saw fit.
Indeed and you did it with good efficiency and now it will be up to us to continue. Though I recognise Caldari must continue military operations to push out certain FDU members who refuse to give up.
Increased Caldari presence was the reason I sided with your efforts in hopes of breaking up the status quo which had in my opinion stagnated the system and was diluting the ILF cause. The war simply provided us the means and I hope all Intaki can realise the potential of this situation.
I happily carry the mark of traitor on my face if in the end, it leads to independent Intaki. Perhaps then some of the Caldari pilots also get the recognition they deserve.
Yuri Intaki Aditipala, ILF
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |