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Jacabon Mere
Caldari red dwarf industries
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Posted - 2009.03.28 11:29:00 -
[1]
If your using them to manufacture how do you value them?
Highest buy in the region? highest local buy? lowest sell in the region. lowest local sell.
I go the average between the lowest local sell and the highest local buy. local being within one or 2 jumps. -----------------------
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.03.28 11:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 28/03/2009 11:48:26
Originally by: Jacabon Mere I go the average between the lowest local sell and the highest local buy. local being within one or 2 jumps.
That how I do it as well.
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Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
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Posted - 2009.03.28 11:54:00 -
[3]
I always try and use the rolling Average Sell price for the region I'm in, over the last 3-months, its as good an indicator as any, unless you get a sudden spike in prices, reviewed on a once a week/twice a month basis.
Everyone uses a differnt metric, no one way is right or wrong, it boils down to personal preference.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.03.28 12:23:00 -
[4]
Aren't the minerals you mine free?
FREE! jumpclone service - NOW 192 locations! |
Argendta
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Posted - 2009.03.28 12:55:00 -
[5]
Lowest sell in Jita.
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Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
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Posted - 2009.03.28 12:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Estel Arador Aren't the minerals you mine free?
God Dam it, I knew i was doing something wrong.....
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.03.28 14:10:00 -
[7]
I calculate my mineral cost as if I would buy them from the market at a logistically viable location where they are sold in the amounts I need. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.03.28 14:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Abrazzar I calculate my mineral cost as if I would buy them from the market at a logistically viable location where they are sold in the amounts I need.
Same here.
What good is using a mineral price in a local system if it is not where YOU would be buying them at that moment when you needed them.
I have been using either the jita mineral index or the eve-central values for forge in evemeep lately but when I do build in empire it is usually the same as the poster above me.
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.03.28 14:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Avalon Champion I always try and use the rolling Average Sell price for the region I'm in, over the last 3-months, its as good an indicator as any, unless you get a sudden spike in prices, reviewed on a once a week/twice a month basis.
Everyone uses a differnt metric, no one way is right or wrong, it boils down to personal preference.
This but I use past seven days. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony QUANT is rebuilding, EVE-Mail me for recruitment info. Item Database |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari Life is Experience
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Posted - 2009.03.28 17:17:00 -
[10]
I'm working on a spreadsheet that will take the price of the component materials (regular mineral prices usually) and calculating the build cost based on the BEST local price it would take to set up your own purchase order.
Granted you could use the lowest local Sell price, but it's usually a lot cheaper to place buy orders IF:
- You can calculate the total minerals for all the items you want/have to build next week/month.
- You don't mind hauling the purchased items to the building location
- You know, the build price for any item at a glance, based on it's input prices you can then scan the market for items that are below this price, taking into account marker order costs of course
The spreadsheet is in its infancy however as I want to include ALL the tech 1 Blueprints and when it comes to manufacturing include the ME level as well.
May be done, tested and polished by the end of next week, or it may not. I do have a great name for it though so it's even more reason to release it.
-------------------------- Life is about memories the more the better. Eve Online Batch Calculator |
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PassingThrough
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Posted - 2009.03.28 17:17:00 -
[11]
All minerals from mining are free so it's all extra profit!
If you had sat at a gate all day pvping instead of mining you would have had to buy the minerals which would have been extra costs to your production.
Since you spent that time doing something to reduce your production costs instead of something useless and unproductive like pvping, your production costs are less.
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2009.03.28 19:23:00 -
[12]
Lowest Jita buy order, it represents an accurate "opportunity cost" because if you decided not to manufacture with the mins, that would provide you with a snapshot in time of the alternative of selling all your minerals (at that exact moment)... which is really the whole point when valuing minerals you have mined yourself when you are considering using them for manufacturing...
--
Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donęt forget the reach-around.
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.03.28 19:28:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 28/03/2009 19:28:50
Originally by: Haradgrim Lowest Jita buy order, it represents an accurate "opportunity cost"
No it does not!!! If someone is 30 jumps from Jita and can sell their minerals at the lowest regional buy order that whould be the value.
Jita is NOT the standard that everyone else in the entire game has to go by. Especially when you can make a lot more profit the further away from Jita you get.
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3Bird
Gallente Star Fox Corp.
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Posted - 2009.03.28 19:29:00 -
[14]
and if people didnt pvp you would be out of a job because supply wouldnt be there. no supply no sales, no sales no need to build new ships, no new ships no need to mine.
befor you talk out your ass again please o god please think about what you about to say, pvp is not useless, pvp drives the game as much as manufacturing does. without one side the other will not work.
and as for the Op, my self i go for lowest sell price, basicly what would i buy if i didnt spend the time mining. Fly Safe and Good Hunting.
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Imertu Solientai
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.28 21:48:00 -
[15]
When I mine I do not pay anything for doing it. I can then refine that ore for 0 ISK too. I paid 0 ISK for the minerals. They are therefore free. This lets me manufacture stuff and sell it for a lot below market price, making me quick profits! |
Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.03.28 22:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Imertu Solientai When I mine I do not pay anything for doing it.
I pay $15 a month to mine.
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PassingThrough
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Posted - 2009.03.28 22:39:00 -
[17]
You pay a little over 2 cents an hour so your character will continue training even when you aren't playing.
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Imertu Solientai When I mine I do not pay anything for doing it.
I pay $15 a month to mine.
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PassingThrough
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Posted - 2009.03.28 22:43:00 -
[18]
Well, this post is about how to price minerals that you mine yourself. For a manufacturer, time spent pvping is a waste of time when you could be spending the same time reducing your manufacturing cost.
My comment was to the people that want you to add the minerals that you mined yourself into your production costs instead of using them to reduce your production costs.
Originally by: 3Bird and if people didnt pvp you would be out of a job because supply wouldnt be there. no supply no sales, no sales no need to build new ships, no new ships no need to mine.
befor you talk out your ass again please o god please think about what you about to say, pvp is not useless, pvp drives the game as much as manufacturing does. without one side the other will not work.
and as for the Op, my self i go for lowest sell price, basicly what would i buy if i didnt spend the time mining.
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.03.28 23:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: PassingThrough In Eve we just have to go to a belt and mine some rocks that give us free minerals. There is no cost in doing that. I pay my monthly fee in order to keep my characters training. Whether I sat in a station spinning my ship or sitting in a belt mining makes no difference. The cost for my subscription will still be the same.
So the TIME you spend at your computer mining is worthless? Even as you say you pay for skill traning, I can spend time doing real life stuff instead of mining and still not lose anything. However the time I spend in Eve is worth something even if I am just mining.
If you wish to continue to sell items for below mineral costs because "the minerals you mine are free" I will gladly buy everything you price like that, then reprocess it, sell the minerals, and be the one actually making ISK.
Example.
You spend an hour mining 10 million in minerals. You produce items with minerals and sell them "at the lowest sell order price" so you can move them which comes to 9 million. I buy them, reprocess, sell minerals and make 1 million profit.
You spent 1 hour doing that, I spent 10 seconds.
You made 9 mil/hr. I make 360 mil/hr
Who is the person doing it wrong now??
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Governor LePetomane
Rock Ridge Brokerage Solutions
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Posted - 2009.03.28 23:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: PassingThrough Edited by: PassingThrough on 28/03/2009 22:58:37
Well, this post is about how to price minerals that you mine yourself. For a manufacturer, time spent pvping is a waste of time when you could be spending the same time reducing your manufacturing cost.
My comment was to the people that want you to add the minerals that you mined yourself into your production costs instead of using them to reduce your production costs.
Companies produce some of the items that they need for their final products all the time so that they can produce them cheaper and use that to lower their sale price in order to undercut their competition, take out the middle man markups and increase their profits.
Eve is no different except we don't have the normal costs (building, employees, taxes, ...) that go along with producing the materials (minerals). In Eve we just have to go to a belt and mine some rocks that give us free minerals. There is no cost in doing that. I pay my monthly fee in order to keep my characters training. Whether I sat in a station spinning my ship or sitting in a belt mining makes no difference. The cost for my subscription will still be the same.
Assuming this isn't a troll -- and yeah, out on a limb here but wotthehell -- would you consider yourself to be doing well if you sold a bunch of manufactured product for less than you could have conveniently sold the raw minerals for?
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar Ashen's Wings
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Posted - 2009.03.29 00:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Governor LePetomane
Originally by: PassingThrough Edited by: PassingThrough on 28/03/2009 22:58:37
Well, this post is about how to price minerals that you mine yourself. For a manufacturer, time spent pvping is a waste of time when you could be spending the same time reducing your manufacturing cost.
My comment was to the people that want you to add the minerals that you mined yourself into your production costs instead of using them to reduce your production costs.
Companies produce some of the items that they need for their final products all the time so that they can produce them cheaper and use that to lower their sale price in order to undercut their competition, take out the middle man markups and increase their profits.
Eve is no different except we don't have the normal costs (building, employees, taxes, ...) that go along with producing the materials (minerals). In Eve we just have to go to a belt and mine some rocks that give us free minerals. There is no cost in doing that. I pay my monthly fee in order to keep my characters training. Whether I sat in a station spinning my ship or sitting in a belt mining makes no difference. The cost for my subscription will still be the same.
Assuming this isn't a troll -- and yeah, out on a limb here but wotthehell -- would you consider yourself to be doing well if you sold a bunch of manufactured product for less than you could have conveniently sold the raw minerals for?
To many... the answer is yes. Hence the reason I don't make or sell a lot of things anymore...
They forget those minerals they mine have a value. That value is what they can be sold for. It is not 0 at any point in the equation.
they think selling something at 500 isk over the manufacturing cost (factory time) is a profit when everyone else is selling it at 2000 isk over that price. Because they mined the minerals worth 1800 isk...
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.03.29 00:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: PassingThrough All minerals from mining are free so it's all extra profit!
If you had sat at a gate all day pvping instead of mining you would have had to buy the minerals which would have been extra costs to your production.
Since you spent that time doing something to reduce your production costs instead of something useless and unproductive like pvping, your production costs are less.
you cant be serious.
You would rather take 10m worth of mined minerals, make something that sells for 5 m and be happy? Why not just sell the minerals for the 10m? ugh
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
Beth Korai
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Posted - 2009.03.29 01:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: brinelan You would rather take 10m worth of mined minerals, make something that sells for 5 m and be happy? Why not just sell the minerals for the 10m? ugh
Your example is a bit silly.
You: mine 10 million in minerals, and sell for 10 million, making 10 million profit Non-miner: buy 10 million in minerals, make something, sell for 15 million, making 5 million profit Me: mine 10 million in minerals, make something, sell it for 15 million, making 15 million in profit
You guys really need to stop equating value with cost; they're not the same thing. I would love for someone to explain how something that cost me zero isk suddenly cost me 10 million isk ifI use it to build something. Just because I CAN sell it for 10 million does NOT mean it has a 10 million isk cost on it suddenly. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.03.29 02:42:00 -
[24]
To me they're worth what it would cost me to buy that mineral in quantity in a convenient location. If anything I build sells for even close to that I will build something else or just sell the minerals for even more than that in a more out of the way location.
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PassingThrough
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Posted - 2009.03.29 03:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: PassingThrough on 29/03/2009 03:05:32
Yes, the TIME you spend at your computer is worthless. If you are going to value the TIME that you are mining then you'll have to value the time that you aren't mining as lost isk.
Who said anything about selling anything below mineral costs? If I can refine something for more than it's worth then I'll just buy it all up, refine it and build something else. I'm not stupid. LOL
Originally by: Breaker77
So the TIME you spend at your computer mining is worthless? Even as you say you pay for skill traning, I can spend time doing real life stuff instead of mining and still not lose anything. However the time I spend in Eve is worth something even if I am just mining.
If you wish to continue to sell items for below mineral costs because "the minerals you mine are free" I will gladly buy everything you price like that, then reprocess it, sell the minerals, and be the one actually making ISK.
Example.
You spend an hour mining 10 million in minerals. You produce items with minerals and sell them "at the lowest sell order price" so you can move them which comes to 9 million. I buy them, reprocess, sell minerals and make 1 million profit.
You spent 1 hour doing that, I spent 10 seconds.
You made 9 mil/hr. I make 360 mil/hr
Who is the person doing it wrong now??
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PassingThrough
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Posted - 2009.03.29 03:04:00 -
[26]
I'm glad someone in here gets it.
Originally by: Beth Korai Edited by: Beth Korai on 29/03/2009 01:17:51
Originally by: brinelan You would rather take 10m worth of mined minerals, make something that sells for 5 m and be happy? Why not just sell the minerals for the 10m? ugh
Your example is a bit silly.
You: mine 10 million in minerals, and sell for 10 million, making 10 million profit Non-miner: buy 10 million in minerals, make something, sell for 15 million, making 5 million profit Me: mine 10 million in minerals, make something, sell it for 15 million, making 15 million in profit
You guys really need to stop equating value with cost; they're not the same thing. I would love for someone to explain how something that cost me zero isk suddenly cost me 10 million isk ifI use it to build something. Just because I CAN sell it for 10 million does NOT mean it has a 10 million isk cost on it suddenly.
Edit: and in answer to the original poster, I value the minerals much as others have: essentially an average between buy and sell wherever the manufactured/mined item will be sold.
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar Ashen's Wings
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Posted - 2009.03.29 03:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: PassingThrough I'm glad someone in here gets it.
Originally by: Beth Korai Edited by: Beth Korai on 29/03/2009 01:17:51
Originally by: brinelan You would rather take 10m worth of mined minerals, make something that sells for 5 m and be happy? Why not just sell the minerals for the 10m? ugh
Your example is a bit silly.
You: mine 10 million in minerals, and sell for 10 million, making 10 million profit Non-miner: buy 10 million in minerals, make something, sell for 15 million, making 5 million profit Me: mine 10 million in minerals, make something, sell it for 15 million, making 15 million in profit
You guys really need to stop equating value with cost; they're not the same thing. I would love for someone to explain how something that cost me zero isk suddenly cost me 10 million isk ifI use it to build something. Just because I CAN sell it for 10 million does NOT mean it has a 10 million isk cost on it suddenly.
Edit: and in answer to the original poster, I value the minerals much as others have: essentially an average between buy and sell wherever the manufactured/mined item will be sold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-of-production_theory_of_value
quote: In economics, the cost-of-production theory of value is the theory that the price of an object or condition is determined by the sum of the cost of the resources that went into making it. The cost can compose any of the factors of production (including labour, capital, or land) and taxation.
It does not matter how you acquired the resources, they are still a cost of production factor based on their value. You can steal minerals worth 10 mil isk, mine for an hour to get the ore and refine it, or buy it on the market. The value is still 10 mil. To produce something using those minerals means there was a mineral cost in production of 10 mil.
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PassingThrough
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Posted - 2009.03.29 06:02:00 -
[28]
But if I value my minerals at zero isk then I have no capital value to add to the production costs.
You may value my minerals at 10 million isk, but if I don't value them at that on my books then it really doesn't matter what you think they are worth. On my books the capital value of the minerals that I mined is zero isk.
The value of those minerals will eventually get on my books in the form of net profit.
In the end either accounting practice works out to the same amount of isk in your wallet.
Using your way, if you use 10 million of your capital and sell something for 15 million you made 5 million in net profit and have 15 million in your wallet.
Using my way, if I use 0.0 in capital and sell something for 15 million I've made 15 million in net profit and also have 15 million in my wallet.
It all works out the same in the end.
Originally by: Ashen Angel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-of-production_theory_of_value
quote: In economics, the cost-of-production theory of value is the theory that the price of an object or condition is determined by the sum of the cost of the resources that went into making it. The cost can compose any of the factors of production (including labour, capital, or land) and taxation.
It does not matter how you acquired the resources, they are still a cost of production factor based on their value. You can steal minerals worth 10 mil isk, mine for an hour to get the ore and refine it, or buy it on the market. The value is still 10 mil. To produce something using those minerals means there was a mineral cost in production of 10 mil.
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Beth Korai
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Posted - 2009.03.29 07:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ashen Angel quote: In economics, the cost-of-production theory of value is the theory that the price of an object or condition is determined by the sum of the cost of the resources that went into making it. The cost can compose any of the factors of production (including labour, capital, or land) and taxation.
It does not matter how you acquired the resources, they are still a cost of production factor based on their value. You can steal minerals worth 10 mil isk, mine for an hour to get the ore and refine it, or buy it on the market. The value is still 10 mil. To produce something using those minerals means there was a mineral cost in production of 10 mil.
Apples and oranges. You can't compare economic theory with basic accounting principles and manufacturing/accounting basics. I'll ask again, and maybe someone will answer: explain to me where an asset (mined minerals with no cost associated with acquisition) suddenly has a cost when used to manufacture something. Value and cost are not equivalent. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.03.29 09:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Beth Korai Apples and oranges. You can't compare economic theory with basic accounting principles and manufacturing/accounting basics. I'll ask again, and maybe someone will answer: explain to me where an asset (mined minerals with no cost associated with acquisition) suddenly has a cost when used to manufacture something. Value and cost are not equivalent.
Acquiring those minerals costs time. Time = ISK. There you go, minerals cost ISK, even if you mine them. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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