Originally by: Darknesss

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For those who dont know I recently lost a Kronos, worth roughly 5 billion isk in mods etc. Its my choice to fly it and I really enjoyed flying it.

After the patch before everyone knew about the HP bug and the server seemed suprisingly stable i decided to take it for a spin as i had done many a time pre-patch. I jumped into a reasonably sized gate camp but nothing I wouldnt be able to tank. As i decloaked none of my modules appeared to activate, i was then instantly put down to 10% armor, at this point i didnt know what was going on so I hit fraps to rewatch afterwards, i managed to fraps for about half a second before my ship popped, and although the graphics showed my mods inactive a armor repair cycle went through boosting me to about 70% armor a second volley popped me instantly. The Fraps shows clearly that just 2 zealots were actually firing, the larger ships didnt even have time enough to lock me.

This Kronos has 80-84% resistances on everything and I thought I had been doomsdayed at first, i quickly posted the mail and apparently 2 zealots were the only thing doing damage to me. My Kronos with 7k shield 9k armor with 80+% resistances and my structure 10k with damage control had been melted by 2.9k damage from 2 zealots only (2 volleys for them)

Luckily for the guys who popped me the best stuff lived including 2x centum a-type LAR's and Vizan's EANM. I petitioned and quickly received my ship back but of course minus the mods that lived.

This policy has been in place a long time and i've never challenged it because quite frankly its never been worth the effort but i'll be damned if i wanst gonna try and challenge it here.

Anyway to cut a very long story short after 2 weeks of escalating petitions I was given the finger. This policy is ridiculous, isk is something that takes time to make in eve and somehow CCP think its reasonable that a victim of a bug they admitted was their fault should lose 3+bil isk because what, they dont want to take mods off people who should never have gained them in the first place. If CCP make a mistake CCP should fix the mistake, i know if i make a mistake in eve I have to pay for it.

I have to live with the fact i suffered a massive loss to CCP, but in the future I want to see people getting anything they lost back because we're all paying customers and why should we take a hit because CCP f*cked up.

I understand that perhaps it would be very difficult and time consuming to retrace those modules steps but at the very least the person who lost the ship due to a blatant bug should get the market price for that module(s) placed back into their wallets. I dont think there are enough legitimate losses to seriously affect the economics of eve by doing this, but regardless I think something should change.

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Originally by: Deva Blackfire

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Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/03/2009 16:53:29

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker

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I'm sorry, but to be blunt, I really don't pity your situation. First off, you went into a gate camp and got roasted alive. I'm going to guess it was 5 v 1. And your complaining that two zealots blew you to bits. Claiming it was module lag....

Right, I can see why CCP won't. Even if you didn't have the claimed "module lag" I'm pretty sure you would have been destroyed. You tried to solo PVP and got destroyed over it.

Yeah, you totally deserve reimbursement....

In my opinion, the policy doesn't need a change. No support.

--Isaac

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Lol, you are for real or you were born that stupid?

Learn to read my half-brained friend: ship was reimbursed because CCP ADMITTED it WAS a bug and the issue is something totally different. What? Ill leave that to you (or ask your parents - maybe they can read and translate it for you).

Anyho, /signed for actually getting some rules for reimbursement. Atm its totally random stuff, sometimes people get ships (even including caps) reimbursed after the battles (CCP never reimburses fleetbattle losses, amrite?) where in clear documented cases (including fraps) there is no reimbursement.

So not only ya need to make clear WHEN reimbursement is possible but WHAT can be reimbursed.


Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium

You sir are also stupid and your reading comprehension is that of 5 year old.

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Originally by: Isaac Starstriker

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Originally by: Deva Blackfire

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Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/03/2009 16:53:29

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker

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I'm sorry, but to be blunt, I really don't pity your situation. First off, you went into a gate camp and got roasted alive. I'm going to guess it was 5 v 1. And your complaining that two zealots blew you to bits. Claiming it was module lag....

Right, I can see why CCP won't. Even if you didn't have the claimed "module lag" I'm pretty sure you would have been destroyed. You tried to solo PVP and got destroyed over it.

Yeah, you totally deserve reimbursement....

In my opinion, the policy doesn't need a change. No support.

--Isaac

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Lol, you are for real or you were born that stupid?

Learn to read my half-brained friend: ship was reimbursed because CCP ADMITTED it WAS a bug and the issue is something totally different. What? Ill leave that to you (or ask your parents - maybe they can read and translate it for you).

Anyho, /signed for actually getting some rules for reimbursement. Atm its totally random stuff, sometimes people get ships (even including caps) reimbursed after the battles (CCP never reimburses fleetbattle losses, amrite?) where in clear documented cases (including fraps) there is no reimbursement.

So not only ya need to make clear WHEN reimbursement is possible but WHAT can be reimbursed.


Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium

You sir are also stupid and your reading comprehension is that of 5 year old.

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Wow, I must have touched a nerve. By the way, because you reported Drake, I feel its my responsibility to tell you I reported you. Sucks doesn't it.

Now that we are over that little hump....

I see what the OP is saying and agreeably CCP should have rules on reimbursement. (Although I'm of the opinion that reimbursement shouldn't happen at all because it could be just as easily your fault as it could have been CCP's fault) But I don't suppose you would mind maybe having a suggestion of what those rules could be?

--Isaac

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Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto

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I pity your loss, but I'm not really sure what CCP can do here. Either they remove those modules from the hangars of the people who picked them up - hardly fair to them - or they open a loophole you could drive a truck through whenever a bug opens. Fly officer-fit ship into combat, lose officer-fit ship to bug, drop officer gear, get officer gear reimbursed. Suddenly, you and your "enemy" have made 3 billion for a few minutes' work. If you can come up with a solution that works better than the status quo I'm all ears, but I don't see what it would be.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Right now CCP is not aware of HP bug, and frankly I am also skeptical since I didn't encounter it myself and have not seen other people showing impossible kills.

If your Kronos died to a single frigate, maybe 2 frigates, then we'd have serious evidence of something wrong.

Anyway, if you hope to get your ship back, you first have to help CCP identify the bug - if it exists. Without that, there's no ground for reimbursement.

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Originally by: Efrim Black

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Originally by: Isaac Starstriker

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Originally by: Deva Blackfire

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Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/03/2009 16:53:29

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker

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I'm sorry, but to be blunt, I really don't pity your situation. First off, you went into a gate camp and got roasted alive. I'm going to guess it was 5 v 1. And your complaining that two zealots blew you to bits. Claiming it was module lag....

Right, I can see why CCP won't. Even if you didn't have the claimed "module lag" I'm pretty sure you would have been destroyed. You tried to solo PVP and got destroyed over it.

Yeah, you totally deserve reimbursement....

In my opinion, the policy doesn't need a change. No support.

--Isaac

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Lol, you are for real or you were born that stupid?

Learn to read my half-brained friend: ship was reimbursed because CCP ADMITTED it WAS a bug and the issue is something totally different. What? Ill leave that to you (or ask your parents - maybe they can read and translate it for you).

Anyho, /signed for actually getting some rules for reimbursement. Atm its totally random stuff, sometimes people get ships (even including caps) reimbursed after the battles (CCP never reimburses fleetbattle losses, amrite?) where in clear documented cases (including fraps) there is no reimbursement.

So not only ya need to make clear WHEN reimbursement is possible but WHAT can be reimbursed.


Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Worlds End Consortium

You sir are also stupid and your reading comprehension is that of 5 year old.

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Wow, I must have touched a nerve. By the way, because you reported Drake, I feel its my responsibility to tell you I reported you. Sucks doesn't it.

Now that we are over that little hump....

I see what the OP is saying and agreeably CCP should have rules on reimbursement. (Although I'm of the opinion that reimbursement shouldn't happen at all because it could be just as easily your fault as it could have been CCP's fault) But I don't suppose you would mind maybe having a suggestion of what those rules could be?

--Isaac

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He probably doesn't, and I still haven't heard him explain how he takes on two HACs alone. All bugs and lag aside. Marauders aren't exactly made for solo-pvp.

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Originally by: Darknesss

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Are you joking... this post is ridiculous and you are actually stupid. Let me put it this way the maurauder has 9k armor 80+% resistances and with t2 aux nano pumps, exile booster and the reppers it repairs 2,719 armor PER repper, or 5,438 armor every 11 seconds. Wow at taking on 2 hacs, what was i thinking... and just for the record I have fraps of me taking on 15 or so hacs and tanking with ease I can upload if you want me too

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Originally by: Darknesss

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Edited by: Darknesss on 29/03/2009 02:47:49
I would really appreciate it if people actually read my post, this wasnt about getting reimbursement and it certainly wasnt lag. I didnt mention lag in my post at all i said that 2 zealots killed me in 2 volleys (under 8 seconds) and i've taken on far bigger camps and lived.

Maurauders for anyone who actually has an IQ are perfect ships for PvP they have an awesome bonus to both damage and tanks and the ONLY weakness is ECM atleast in the Kronos's case.

As I have already said I do not expect reimbursement, my case has already been declined but I think that things need to change for the future.

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2894233

Check damage taken and damage dealt. If you think thats right then my god...

Edit:

GM Faolchu:

Hi,

After a thorough investigation of our server logs and performance reports we have come to the decision that your ship should be reimbursed. Please note that as the ship will still hold the same level of insurance it had prior to its destruction, we have to remove the insurance payout you received at the loss of the ship. Please refer to the EVE mail from CONCORD in your inbox for further details on the reimbursement.

If you have any questions regarding this then please do not hesitate to ask.

Best regards,
GM Faolchu
EVE Online Customer Support

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Originally by: Darknesss

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http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2894233

Check damage taken and damage dealt. If you think thats right then my god...

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Originally by: CCP Whisper

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So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Has anyone from CCP confirmed existence of HP bug?

because if it's real, it's a game breaker

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Originally by: CCP Whisper

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So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.

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Originally by: Vaal Erit

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Has anyone from CCP confirmed existence of HP bug?

because if it's real, it's a game breaker

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No, they haven't I have been in plenty of armor based combat with session changes and have not noticed any problems. I have noticed that modules refuse to online when I first fit them. But anything can happen and strange things have happened on tranquility plenty of times.

If there is evidence of an HP bug, we really need to get that narrowed down asap as that would be a show stopping bug.

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Originally by: Vaal Erit

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Originally by: Darknesss

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http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2894233

Check damage taken and damage dealt. If you think thats right then my god...

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Killmails are bugged, *especially* damage dealt. In fact I dare you to find one CORRECT killmail since the last patch. I see you are claiming HP bug, but since CCP denied your request and you cannot show any evidence (logs can be modified and one second of fraps is useless) there is no reason to believe you. I know you are super leader of triumvirate but I have killed some very e-famous people and they *****ed and moaned about lag and dropping when that clearly wasn't the case. Would like to hear from the people who killed you since they have little reason to lie.

As for getting your modules back, let's think about this, shall we? By using the petition system you know that petitions, especially reimbursement petitions are not answered immediately. In fact, they usually take a few weeks if you escalate them.

What happens to dropped modules in a couple of weeks? People sell them of course. So do you yank the module from someone who legally bought the module? no, you have to reverse the entire transaction. Now consider the module changes hands multiple times. Now you have to reverse a chain of orders and screw up a lot of people's wallets/assets. I think you can see the problems that this will cause.

Another what if, let's say your corpum LAR dropped when you died due to a bug in the game and I loot it. I put it on my Kronos. I get killed in a legit manner a few days later and it drops again. CCP grants your petition and all modules. Now they either have to yank the LAR from someone who fairly got the module in a fight or duplicate the module. You also run into the situation where if you recovered your own loot with an unaffiliated alt and got your ship back, you'd have another corpum LAR out of thin air from CCP.

You might think it is worth it for your super expensive marauder to go through all of that, but with a standard T2 loss it is too much work and we can't have different treatment for different people just because they lost a few more expensive imaginary pixels.

Nice little TRI threadnaught you got going on here, it's cute :)

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Originally by: Lord Fitz

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While I can see how this works in a 1v2 battle, how does it work in a larger battle, where the process of obtaining your loot may cause several other people to lose their ships doing so, only to then be denied the loot because the original destruction was a bug.

Yes, it's a bug, yes it sucks, but unless it's an exploit I can't see how you can justify the amount of time it would take to come to a decision about what to do in 'x' situation.

You certainly can't give isk as well as the modules, what if an ally scooped the modules, free isk. What if you then knew how to reproduce the bug, more free isk.

Also, you petitioned and quickly received your ship back ? After a patch even ? Wow.

Keep in mind that with every loser, there is a winner, and when you lose something to a bug, you can think/know it's a bug, but the minute someone loses their loot from someone they killed, it will be for certain, a GM acting inappropriately.

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Originally by: NereSky

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This is a toughie

On one hand i agree in prinviple that its a tough loss which should have been advoidable, however

i assume you have been playing a while and know the reimbursement policy, if that is true you should be aware of the tough stance CCP take on these reimbursement issues and also you should know that as soon as you undock anywhere your ship and mods are at risk either due to game mechanics de-sync/lag ect

I remember a while a go i undocked in a pod during a war dec, black screened long enough for my pod to go pop losing implants this was petitioned falling on deaf ears :( but i accepted it grudgingly

for me travelling in 0.0 and low sec in a faction fitted ship adds to the adrelenien, so with those thoughts and the difficulty CCP have for tracing and returning lost mods i cannot support this although i do feel for your loss and for that im sorry to read what happened

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Originally by: Darknesss

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Originally by: NereSky

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This is a toughie

On one hand i agree in prinviple that its a tough loss which should have been advoidable, however

i assume you have been playing a while and know the reimbursement policy, if that is true you should be aware of the tough stance CCP take on these reimbursement issues and also you should know that as soon as you undock anywhere your ship and mods are at risk either due to game mechanics de-sync/lag ect

I remember a while a go i undocked in a pod during a war dec, black screened long enough for my pod to go pop losing implants this was petitioned falling on deaf ears :( but i accepted it grudgingly

for me travelling in 0.0 and low sec in a faction fitted ship adds to the adrelenien, so with those thoughts and the difficulty CCP have for tracing and returning lost mods i cannot support this although i do feel for your loss and for that im sorry to read what happened

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Thats exactly what i mean though I knew the second i saw those mods lived I wouldnt get them back but i've been far too lazy to fight the cause of full and fair reimbursement because i've never really lost anything of high enough value to bother.

But I think its something that should be changed.

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Originally by: Wat4shi

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Since so many morons fail at reading even when the OP repeats it.

Here the story,
Ship goes into gate camp.
Ship dies and drops mods.
CCP reimburse ship and destroy mods but not the drop mods!

Here what the OP is requesting.
That drop mods also be return to the owner of ths ship in a case that CCP does reimburse a ship.

I don't see any logical reason not to support.
They don't have to take the items from the people who loot the wreck, just give the person all their stuff back.
This game is already eats up a lot of time. Losing a few billion to a glitch that CCP is willing to reimburse for got to suck.

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Originally by: Darknesss

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I have reported your post as it is once again off topic, this isnt about TRI or me so please take your bitterness towards us and throw it out the window. Read my entire post again and actually try and understand what im saying. This is no mail bug and i GOT THE SHIP BACK.

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Originally by: CCP Whisper

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So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.

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