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Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
294
   |
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everything's relative in space, but this is a game and sometimes things get a little confusing. I think it would be very helpful sometimes if we had a way to see which way is "North" without having to use the minimap.
The Zenith/Nadir are obvious, your ships right out to it and everything is aligned with it. We know our Z axis but we don't know which ways our X and Y axes are.
Would it be practical at all to have a compass of some kind on the tactical overlay? In the system map? Even just an arrow pointing North would be enough, or thicken that line coming from the overlay or change the color or something.
All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range.
[ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ]
Identify "North"
[ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1476
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why do you need to know which way 'North' is (especially since there is no north in space due to 'north' only really existing on a planet)? |
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
294
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Why do you need to know which way 'North' is (especially since there is no north in space due to 'north' only really existing on a planet)?
It's a matter of convention, the same reason we have North on a planet. Technically, we can designate anything as a natural North, the flow of Earth's magnetic field, the ends of Earth's rotational axis, any landmark. That can be done just as arbitrarily in space and really if we expect a spacefaring society to thrive they'll have their own conveniences.
Technically EVE already has a North, the top of every minimap (F11 by default), it's just not clear which way this is without actually opening the minimap.
All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range.
[ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ]
Identify "North"
[ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
Halete
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
108
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 20:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Whilst it'd mostly just be a 'nice thing' to have I can see this leading to some interesting applications...
The extra points of reference would be nice and it doesn't seem like the overlay would be incredibly difficult to implement - not that I know anything about that.
Dirty heretical muld-child, reporting in. |
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
294
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 21:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Halete wrote:Whilst it'd mostly just be a 'nice thing' to have I can see this leading to some interesting applications...
The extra points of reference would be nice and it doesn't seem like the overlay would be incredibly difficult to implement - not that I know anything about that.
It's such a simple and universal thing. While local orientation is rarely important (Warp to the planet, approach that ship, orbit that thing) it still has some significance like all stations (that I know of) ejecting North (or Nadir) and all Incursion acceleration gates pointing west. It's such a breathtakingly simple thing to implement and a concept any player will already understand, I'm shocked it doesn't already exist.
I don't recall if it existed when we had the voluminous radar, but that kind of made it obvious that direction was an issue. The radar was dropped obviously because it had no use for us in naval combat, but just adding something to indicate North is so harmless and might possibly improve gameplay for some people, at least when they're just fooling around.
All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range.
[ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ]
Identify "North"
[ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
281
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Down is toward the enemy base. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
442
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 23:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
North is towards the sun, south is away from it.
Or vice verse.
Done. |
Tidurious
ResLife Can Suck It
211
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 00:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
You still haven't said WHY we need this. Seems stupid to me...
|
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
294
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 01:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:North is towards the sun, south is away from it.
Or vice verse.
Done.
In that context falling to the sun would be Nadir and it's objectively unreliable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith
Tidurious wrote:You still haven't said WHY we need this. Seems stupid to me...
You just lack imagination. We don't particularly need this (we've gotten along just fine), it's just a terribly simple thing to implement and there might be some benefits that aren't immediately clear. There's a lot of features we don't need, but are nice when they come along.
All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range.
[ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ]
Identify "North"
[ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
691
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 01:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
just add the old radar back to the game. contains north :)
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
294
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 02:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:just add the old radar back to the game. contains north :)
As nice as that would be, the poor thing was just so... useless. So pretty, so unhelpful.
All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range.
[ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ]
Identify "North"
[ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
Francisco Bizzaro
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 07:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Actually, I kind of like the lack of orientation. It makes the game feel like genuine 3D space. The universal z-axis and equatorial plane of the game bug me because they spoil that illusion.
But since they probably won't get rid of the z-axis, and since they actually do have a universal x,y,z coordinate system, I also wouldn't see a problem with being explicit about it and indicating 'N' (or 'x' for a suitably non-earth-centric 3D name). |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
This reminds me of old jargon from the battletech series, i.e. coreward = towards galaxy center / rimward = toward galaxy edge. I forgot about the others, but they refered to either following the galaxy's rotation or moving in the oposite direction. No matter what, you will have to have some sort of point of reference to what would count as "north", a sort of universal "north pole" if you will. Maybe the star in what ever system you're in?
Either way, I actually like this idea. Nothing fancy, just seems to fit in that even in space you would probibly still require a means to relegate orientantion someway. |
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
294
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 22:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote: No matter what, you will have to have some sort of point of reference to what would count as "north", a sort of universal "north pole" if you will. Maybe the star in what ever system you're in?
Since you can be any direction from the star, it doesn't really fit as a North because it doesn't lie on the horizon, it's always below it. They can just hand-wave it as "the galactic flux-wave of super space warp magic" for all I care, and there very much is a natural North in EVE already regardless of the reasoning for it.
All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range.
[ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ]
Identify "North"
[ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
Shish Tukay
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 00:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
I get confused when the map rotates when I'm probing :(
On the other hand, completely removing directions would be more accurate IMO - currently everything in the game world has the same idea of "up"; it's all relative to the plane of the solar system rather than to the local gravity too, which seems weird to me. |
2ofSpades
Exploration and Intelligence Agency
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 01:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
This would be really hard to do on a universal level because eve's galactic north pole isnt really marked to the players. On top of that a Lat/Long navigation system would have most players reading the directions for a hours at least.
You could set the sun in each system as a center point and track direction with a simple system. Someone had said the sun would be north but I think on the yaw plain so if you were moving in a straight line away form the sun your heading would be 0 degrees. Then if you were moving up away from the sun your pitch would be 0 degrees. If you were moving away and up from the sun you heading would be 0 degrees and your pitch would be 45 degrees. The main problem with even this system is there needs to a galactic north pole set for each system and that would conflict with eve's real galactic north pole. The plus about this is once people got use to using the headings you could match your ship direction to your targets to reduce transversal with way less effort then currently. It would be cool if when you lock your target their heading and pitch is shown to you on the HUD box thing. So great idea in general but kind of hard to develop so that everyone could understand it. Real space navigation is no easy task unless your planing on flying visual. |
Halete
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
112
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 12:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Honestly, I think the above implementation would work well functionally despite it's flaws.
Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in. |
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
White-Lotus
294
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
2ofSpades wrote:This would be really hard to do on a universal level because eve's galactic north pole isnt really marked to the players. On top of that a Lat/Long navigation system would have most players reading the directions for a hours at least.
You could set the sun in each system as a center point and track direction with a simple system. Someone had said the sun would be north but I think on the yaw plain so if you were moving in a straight line away form the sun your heading would be 0 degrees. Then if you were moving up away from the sun your pitch would be 0 degrees. If you were moving away and up from the sun you heading would be 0 degrees and your pitch would be 45 degrees. The main problem with even this system is there needs to a galactic north pole set for each system and that would conflict with eve's real galactic north pole. The plus about this is once people got use to using the headings you could match your ship direction to your targets to reduce transversal with way less effort then currently. It would be cool if when you lock your target their heading and pitch is shown to you on the HUD box thing. So great idea in general but kind of hard to develop so that everyone could understand it. Real space navigation is no easy task unless your planing on flying visual.
There already is a "galactic north pole", the minimap already has a consistent orientation.
We don't need to be "realistic", if EVE were realistic there wouldn't be an EVE. Anyways, that's an awful system as far as realism goes because if there's no universal North already, there's no universal Nadir unless you make falling into the star the Nadir, which gives you a Z axis but your X, Y and handedness are still undefined.
When adventuring into new star systems it might be a challenge to pick a conventional set of axes, but seeing as these civilizations are well established in all the star systems we're in, it stands to reason that their universal orientation have already been mapped against other constellations and due to the advanced computational capacity and sensors that surely must be available, keeping track of every orientation in realtime would be little more difficult than using GPS on Earth.
So we can safely assume that at some point, a complex supersociety that's already conquered the final frontier can casually pull what would be North and Nadir out of their asses (as they've clearly done with Nadir already) and that we don't need to make a big bustle about what's realistic, what's easy to implement or what makes sense.
All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range.
[ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ]
Identify "North"
[ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ] |
Bel Amar
Sudden Buggery
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 10:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'd love to see this implemented. At the moment, I find that I can't get my orientation as to where one system is in relation to another, in spite of directional gates, nebula etc.
Ultimately, It's irrelevant, but it would be a nice feature to have simply to help orient yourself in space. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 10:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
For me it is enough that I have up and down dictated by the game. I dont need neither left and right nor cardinal points.
The relation between systems is shown via stargates or via map... |
Bel Amar
Sudden Buggery
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 11:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Colonel Xaven wrote:For me it is enough that I have up and down dictated by the game. I dont need neither left and right nor cardinal points.
I'm happy for you. I'm not sure how it relates to a non invasive cosmetic change for people who would like it though.
Quote:The relation between systems is shown via stargates or via map...
Sure, and I'd like to see a method to allow me to more easily visualise those relations when flying through space. I can see the gate slightly askew, but if I don't know where I am, which way Jita is or whatever, then the direction is effectively arbitrary. For it to have meaning, I have to be able to orient myself against my current location. |
Bouh Revetoile
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 11:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
I love this idea !
Infact, we don't care about the north of the galaxy or whatever, what is important is a way to locate us in the system (because we only live in one system, and orienting with the galaxy is pointless).
Though ,orienting to the sun cause some problems because we would not know wether we are on one side of the system or another. Infact, we need two point in a system, or one point far away. The galaxy north is one solution, but I would prefer two points in the system, like the sun and its farthest planet, because that would add more informations.
One arrow for the galaxy north, or two for the sun and its farsest planet, around the capacitor, would be awesome ! |
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