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Ishkur vs Crow, Crusader and a Cormorant.

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Streikeer	Posted - 2009.03.30 09:33:00 - [1] Friend of mine in an Ishkur got engaged by a Crow, a Crusader and a Cormorant on a gate in lowsec. He said his drones got targeted and popped very quickly. He said he made a few mistakes but he thought he should have won and I say he was gone from the start. All ships for the most part T2 fit. Ishkur had T2 Ions and T2 warriors. Did he have any chance?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.03.30 09:49:00 - [2] No Hope. Crusader alone if fit for it can take an Ishkur and the Cormy with 75mm rails or blasters does such insane damage that it isn't even funny. Won't comment on the lolCrow .. because they are lame (ie. never flew one). Rail fitted Ishkur might have survived long enough to kill the Crusader and possibly escape, but would not have won regardless.
Intigo Amarr Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.30 10:36:00 - [3] That was a very hard match from the getgo. I don't agree that the Crusader alone could win (unless you're beamfit, but seriously...) after the range nerf for them though. That 3v1 was definitely not an easy match though, if they were good pilots he never had a chance. ___________________ ENEMA, much love. <3
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.03.30 11:39:00 - [4] Depending on his fit, maybe not 'win' but he should definitely have been able to at least get away. An AB Ishkur, no, he had no chance. But Ishkur takes very well to 'heavy interceptor' style MWD fits which excel in fights like this. 3v1 would still be a tall order and the Crow would still probably get away, but I doubt he would have popped.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2009.03.30 13:34:00 - [5] flown right or enemy ships for bad, luck and such things influence the outcome. I would say yes it is possible cause I had such experiences on my own.
Sir Elliot	Posted - 2009.03.30 14:12:00 - [6] I'd like someone to describe how he could have won facing 3 barely competent pilots? The strategy to use for the Crow, Crusader and Corm is obvious:point, web, pop drones, pop ishkur, salvage.
Xianbei	Posted - 2009.03.30 15:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Kessiaan Depending on his fit, maybe not 'win' but he should definitely have been able to at least get away. An AB Ishkur, no, he had no chance. But Ishkur takes very well to 'heavy interceptor' style MWD fits which excel in fights like this. 3v1 would still be a tall order and the Crow would still probably get away, but I doubt he would have popped. what fit allows an ishkur to escape two interceptors (you know, the really fast ships designed to tackle) ? with the tacklers on him and the destroyer on his drones, these three were perfectly matched to take him out. he had no chance.
Sir Elliot	Posted - 2009.03.30 16:13:00 - [8] I reconsidered this. And reached the same conclusion. I see no way that the Ishkur could have won if the enemy pilots had any idea what they are doing. WTB Ishkur that can solo 2 intys and a Dessy.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:05:00 - [9] I just know I would not want to fight that trio on my own in my Ishkur. A lot depends on where the ships are when the engagement starts, but the difference would only be if the ishkur manages to kill one of the opponents before it dies to the other two. Originally by: Rells First of all, I wouldn't give you the sweat off my balls.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:11:00 - [10] Well, he did state that the ships were mostly t2 fitted so pilots can't have been complete noob-lets. Not to mention the fact that it was light ships on a low-sec gate, which leads me to think Faction War. FW has a lot of small ship action so those who have been in it a while can do some pretty nasty things in light ships .. It might be doable but would require godly micromanagement of transversal, speed and drones (ie. zero lag/latency)
Peckles Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.03.30 20:16:00 - [11] The only possible chance of winning such a battle in my mind would have been to split them up. I would have immediatly burned as far away from the cormorant as possible, sicked the warriors on the crow, and scrammed the crusader. If you were to survive this, then maybe go back and engage the corm. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20...
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.03.30 23:52:00 - [12] 3 on 1. He's knackered tbh especially with his drones popped. Maybe he could have snagged the Crusader with web and scram and melted it before he went down (they orbit fairly close in so perhaps he could have have overheated his MWD and tackle and grabbed him) but that's about it.
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.03.31 00:54:00 - [13] Originally by: Sir Elliot I reconsidered this. And reached the same conclusion. I see no way that the Ishkur could have won if the enemy pilots had any idea what they are doing. WTB Ishkur that can solo 2 intys and a Dessy. Ishkur, Heavy Interceptor HIGH: 3x 125mm Railgun II (Federation Navy Iridium Charge S) Small Remote Armor Repair System (offline) MID: Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Warp Disruptor II Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor LOW: Damage Control II Small Armor Repairer II Capacitor Power Relay II RIG: 2x Capacitor Control Circuit DRONE: 10x Warrior II I was actually in a fight simliar to the one the OP described a few days ago, got tackled by a Malediction with a hostile destroyer / cruiser gang on the gate - was able to pop the Malediction (overheated MWD, I was faster than he was) and get away. In the fight the OP describes I'm assuming he got tackled and then the hostiles jumped in, since 3v1 against a gang like that is still a tall order, but if it was me I would TD'd the destroyer with an optimal script while burning away from it at speed - there's no way it can keep up and Crusaders and Crows never carry webs. Once about 30kms away I'd load my TD with a tracking speed script and go after the Crusader - Crow pilots tend to strongly favor kinetic missiles which is the Ishkur's highest resist and do little damage. The TD on the 'sader would keep it from doing hardly any damage to the drones, if it switched to me I'd switch the TD to an optimal script. Once he gets low on armor, overheat the MWD and point and burn straight at him to keep him from running out of point range before he pops. At this point, if the Crow didn't just run off, he'd probably have managed to pop one or two drones. I'd pull my drones back in to break his locks and stop his DPS on them, then get into an 18km orbit on the dessy while hitting him with a tracking speed script on the TD. His guns won't be able to track me or the drones and he'll pop in short order. At that point I would engage the Crow, but Crows are crazy fast and once he decides to move out of point range I'd pull my drones in and warp out. ... this is the best case solution. In an actual fight I'd probably get the Crusader, the Crow would move out of point range, and the destroyer would go back through the gate.
Chssmius Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.31 01:57:00 - [14] Edited by: Chssmius on 31/03/2009 01:58:17 I would say that he had a chance. How much of a chance is really fit, pilot, and how you define "win" dependent. I define "win" as surviving with my pod and ship intact(though maybe a little worse for ware) and maybe knocking a few targets out in the process. If the crow and crusader were fit like a standard interceptor and the cormorant fit with rails, then I would say the ishkur probably could have gotten away(made it to the gate) and maybe gotten one of three. The most likely kill would be the sader if the ishkur pilot was tricky due to the poor lockrange on the saders. On the other hand, if the sader was fit to dogfight and the cormorant with blasters and a lock down package, then the isnkur would probably be just overwhelmed. The crow would almost be a kind of none participant. The crows primary purpose would be to maintain a point so the sader and cormorant could attempt to break off.
Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.03.31 06:31:00 - [15] Edited by: Tefkros on 31/03/2009 06:32:34 The destroyer is the main threat in this fight. From experience, having fought(in a Wolf though) very high dps AFs, inty/AF duos and dual AFs, the only way for an AF to survive such an engagement is a 400mm plate and preferably a repper. 200mm or less, repped or not, cannot sustain this kind of damage, especially with the destroyer there. Ishkurs generally cannot fit this plate. Ishkur pilots also make the "mistake" (according to me) of fitting neutrons on the ship. While the damage of these guns is theoretically the highest, ANY frigate sized ship that afterburns within 1000m will outtrack them even when webbed, so a close ranged AB Crusader would be completely safe after the drones are dead. A properly setup Wolf could have killed the destroyer and Crusader relatively easy, and tank the Crow until it deagressed. An Ishkur with proper situational awareness and good drone control could have done it as well if it killed the destroyer first, but as others said, it¦s a pretty hard fight when the other pilots know what they are doing. Also, o/ Inti :)
Phantom Slave JUDGE DREAD Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.01 02:20:00 - [16] I fly a crusader and went up against an ishkur recently. I wasn't expecting a 2 point scram on him, I overheated my guns and went to town. He popped me at a little above half of his own armor, or at least somewhere close to there. I was busy spamming my warp button to get my pod out. If I had been set up for long range I could see me winning, if he'd stuck around to actually fight. But I wasn't, and I won't make excuses. That's the last time I go head to head with an Ishkur while I'm solo.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2009.04.01 07:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Streikeer Friend of mine in an Ishkur got engaged by a Crow, a Crusader and a Cormorant on a gate in lowsec. He said his drones got targeted and popped very quickly. He said he made a few mistakes but he thought he should have won and I say he was gone from the start. All ships for the most part T2 fit. Ishkur had T2 Ions and T2 warriors. Did he have any chance? 3 on 1? No. Silly. His only chance would be if they were too dumb to pop his drones or in a complex tank fit.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2009.04.01 07:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Phantom Slave I fly a crusader and went up against an ishkur recently. I wasn't expecting a 2 point scram on him, I overheated my guns and went to town. He popped me at a little above half of his own armor, or at least somewhere close to there. I was busy spamming my warp button to get my pod out. If I had been set up for long range I could see me winning, if he'd stuck around to actually fight. But I wasn't, and I won't make excuses. That's the last time I go head to head with an Ishkur while I'm solo. this usually happens if I engage ishkurs with my wolf, except he pops and I have 50% armor left :>
Intigo Amarr Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.04.01 12:58:00 - [19] Edited by: Intigo on 01/04/2009 12:59:00 Originally by: Kessiaan Originally by: Sir Elliot I reconsidered this. And reached the same conclusion. I see no way that the Ishkur could have won if the enemy pilots had any idea what they are doing. WTB Ishkur that can solo 2 intys and a Dessy. Ishkur, Heavy Interceptor HIGH: 3x 125mm Railgun II (Federation Navy Iridium Charge S) Small Remote Armor Repair System (offline) MID: Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Warp Disruptor II Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor LOW: Damage Control II Small Armor Repairer II Capacitor Power Relay II RIG: 2x Capacitor Control Circuit DRONE: 10x Warrior II I was actually in a fight simliar to the one the OP described a few days ago, got tackled by a Malediction with a hostile destroyer / cruiser gang on the gate - was able to pop the Malediction (overheated MWD, I was faster than he was) and get away. In the fight the OP describes I'm assuming he got tackled and then the hostiles jumped in, since 3v1 against a gang like that is still a tall order, but if it was me I would TD'd the destroyer with an optimal script while burning away from it at speed - there's no way it can keep up and Crusaders and Crows never carry webs. Once about 30kms away I'd load my TD with a tracking speed script and go after the Crusader - Crow pilots tend to strongly favor kinetic missiles which is the Ishkur's highest resist and do little damage. The TD on the 'sader would keep it from doing hardly any damage to the drones, if it switched to me I'd switch the TD to an optimal script. Once he gets low on armor, overheat the MWD and point and burn straight at him to keep him from running out of point range before he pops. At this point, if the Crow didn't just run off, he'd probably have managed to pop one or two drones. I'd pull my drones back in to break his locks and stop his DPS on them, then get into an 18km orbit on the dessy while hitting him with a tracking speed script on the TD. His guns won't be able to track me or the drones and he'll pop in short order. At that point I would engage the Crow, but Crows are crazy fast and once he decides to move out of point range I'd pull my drones in and warp out. ... this is the best case solution. In an actual fight I'd probably get the Crusader, the Crow would move out of point range, and the destroyer would go back through the gate. You are delusional. That Malediction was terrible if it couldn't keep up with an AF. One of the Inties shut off your MWD with their Scrambler. You die. End of story. Edit: Potentially before or after your Drones die. Doesn't matter. ___________________ ENEMA, much love. <3
Intigo Amarr Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.04.01 13:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Tefkros Edited by: Tefkros on 31/03/2009 06:32:34 Also, o/ Inti :) Hey you! I saw you dead on our KB a while back since you fought one of our (now ex-) members in some lowsec gang fight - brought back memories! :p Hope you're enjoying yourself - we just wardecced IRC after camping Delve for Goons 24/7 the last few months. ___________________ ENEMA, much love. <3
Master Kent Gallente Underworld Protection Agency	Posted - 2009.04.21 13:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Streikeer Friend of mine in an Ishkur got engaged by a Crow, a Crusader and a Cormorant on a gate in lowsec. He said his drones got targeted and popped very quickly. He said he made a few mistakes but he thought he should have won and I say he was gone from the start. All ships for the most part T2 fit. Ishkur had T2 Ions and T2 warriors. Did he have any chance? he would win easy. Gate guns would pop the attackers :)
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.04.21 14:20:00 - [22] Edited by: Lord Zekk on 21/04/2009 14:20:14 Originally by: Master Kent Originally by: Streikeer Friend of mine in an Ishkur got engaged by a Crow, a Crusader and a Cormorant on a gate in lowsec. He said his drones got targeted and popped very quickly. He said he made a few mistakes but he thought he should have won and I say he was gone from the start. All ships for the most part T2 fit. Ishkur had T2 Ions and T2 warriors. Did he have any chance? he would win easy. Gate guns would pop the attackers :) Why the hell are you dragging out a 3 week old thread that has been answered?
Intigo Amarr Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.04.21 16:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Lord Zekk Edited by: Lord Zekk on 21/04/2009 14:20:14 Originally by: Master Kent Originally by: Streikeer Friend of mine in an Ishkur got engaged by a Crow, a Crusader and a Cormorant on a gate in lowsec. He said his drones got targeted and popped very quickly. He said he made a few mistakes but he thought he should have won and I say he was gone from the start. All ships for the most part T2 fit. Ishkur had T2 Ions and T2 warriors. Did he have any chance? he would win easy. Gate guns would pop the attackers :) Why the hell are you dragging out a 3 week old thread that has been answered? Because he's a complete idiot who has obviously missed the point that sentries were not involved in the engagement. ___________________ ENEMA, much love. <3

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