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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
353
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Posted - 2012.05.02 15:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alexandra Alt wrote:Marcus Foederatus wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:As promised, here are a list of the features that are going to Sisi this Wednesday afternoon. Most are still work in progress but please give your feedback in this thread and the teams will monitor it as best they can.
-Consequences for capturing systems/regions (benefits for you, grief for your enemy)
Care to elaborate? Faction warfare panel of fanfest this year has all about it. I would advise to see it tbh has a lot of stuff.
That panel had allot of good ideas but it was pretty vague. I would like to hear a bit more detail on all the fw changes really.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
353
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Posted - 2012.05.02 16:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Cearain wrote:Alexandra Alt wrote:Marcus Foederatus wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:As promised, here are a list of the features that are going to Sisi this Wednesday afternoon. Most are still work in progress but please give your feedback in this thread and the teams will monitor it as best they can.
-Consequences for capturing systems/regions (benefits for you, grief for your enemy)
Care to elaborate? Faction warfare panel of fanfest this year has all about it. I would advise to see it tbh has a lot of stuff. That panel had allot of good ideas but it was pretty vague. I would like to hear a bit more detail on all the fw changes really. Without going into exhaustive detail: 1. Cannot dock in stations that are in systems controlled by an enemy - Example: Minmatar cannot dock in stations in a FW system controlled by the Amarr/Caldari - You also cannot use station services if you docked before system flipped - Ninja Edit: This does not affect neutrals 2. There are 5 levels of discounts for a number of different things - if you own the system and have upgraded it - Medical clone discounts (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50% discount) - Number of assembly lines increases by 1 for every level - All broker fees discounted (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50%) - NOTE: You only get these discounts in the FW system - ADDENDUM: These discounts apply to neutrals not in FW 3. Militia store LP prices are affected by faction wide performance (discounts in increments of 10%) - Note that Datacores have been split and moved in FW LP stores - Pending implementation, LP gain increase for all ways in which LP can be gained in FW - FW Kills, FW Missions, Complexs etc I do believe these are the most prominent consequences implemented/pending.
Excellent thank you very much for the info.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
353
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Capitol One wrote:Echoing Oppons above, will the time/amount of plexes needed to capture a system be changed at all? Or can I expect to wake up to a station locked because we don't have complete domination of all timezones?
I would actually look at it the opposite way. I would look at it like it would be better if you could flip the system back quickly to get access to your stuff again.
Consider if you could flip the system in under an hour. You could form a fleet and take it back before the other side could blob up on you.
Ok I haven't entirely thought this through but it seems to me the shorter time to flip systems leads to more fun dynamic gameplay and less of a matter of blob wins. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
354
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:MotherMoon wrote:That's low sec only right? just making sure, other than that I look forward to the changes : ) anything is better than the lack of updates for the past what... 2-3 years? Correct. This only applies to the FW systems (I.e. they are all Low Sec systems, this will not extend to Empire or Nullsec). Certainly we realize that FW requires much love and we have some very nice work going on the UI front for FW that will make it into Inferno also. In addition we intend to keep working on improving FW post Inferno with the same dedication seen for this expansion. Looking forward to the feedback.
You already have feedback on this issue of locking people out of stations. People in faction war hate it. People who do sov null sec love it. This shouldn't be surprising, because it makes faction war more like sov null sec. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
354
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Rara Yariza wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
...HURFBLURF I DONT KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT...
It will promote blobbing, it will hinder roaming gangs, it will be a grindfest. Anyone can see that. If that was a troll then well played, but if not.. haha, oh wow. Lowsec should not be more like 0.0. You do realize that no matter how many times you say something, it does'nt make it any more true. Lets take an easy one. Explain to me just how not being able to dock in the target system will hinder roaming gangs. I'll wait.
1) It will be easier for a larger force to trap and attack your gang.
2) It will be harder to wait out gcc
3) I have to build in more time for my game play to go several jumps back to where I can dock everytime I roam. (or I will need to gimp my fit with a cloak)
The first and the third reasons are the main reasons I do not roam in null sec.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote: I like it, I've been in FW since day 1. only left to join a different FW corp.
Ah yes the exception that proves the rule.
Do you agree it makes faction war more like sov null sec?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:So you made Fw more like 0.0. Awesome sauce, part from the fact that alot of the people tried Null and didn't like it cause of things like station locking out.
You've pretty much just sealed it so alot of FW corps will just leave to get their stuff out and more than likely not return. Low Sec is more likely about to get alot more Pirates and only two miltia who will be too far apart acutally fight, or on the same side.
As the Gals and Minnies have more pilots it won't actually take them long to flip systems in the TZ they Vastly outnumber their Enemies.
You idea is half asses, and every FW pilot can see it. You're coming off as people too stupid to actually understand that pilots in FW DO NOT want a stepping stone to Null Sec. That said I foresee many friends will soon no longer call themselfs an FW pilot because their are otherways of making isk and being a pirate gives you more targets anyway and no locking out. Sry but your Idea of Datecore Farming was always going to be ********. not a good reward at all.
To be fair the station lockout idea is really the only horrible idea here. The rest are pretty decent ideas. Yes the increased consequences is controversial but it has its pluses. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Rara Yariza wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
You do realize that no matter how many times you say something, it does'nt make it any more true.
Lets take an easy one.
Explain to me just how not being able to dock in the target system will hinder roaming gangs.
I'll wait.
Your first sentence is ironic, just so you know. Example 1) lets take a small gang on a roam in other faction space, even though they own the systems. We can take buffer fits, hmm what if we get in a fight and do win, we have to make our way back to our systems to repair and hope we dont get caught with this damage already on us. Well what about active fits? sure hope we dont run out cap boosters or nanite paste etc.. cuz we gotta make our way bac.... you see where this is going? argument 1) - jump out to highsec to replenish - if we are in the opposing faction space the surrounding highsec is their faction not ours. lets hope no-one is around to pin us down and let the navy take us out. argument 2) - bring logi - lets hope he doesnt get popped hey! cuz who primaries logi? argument 3) - fit local remote reps - so we have to gimp our fits to fight ? Say what lets not take small gangs, just bring the biggest amount of people we can find and grind systems back. constantly. WOW! Do you even understand what a roaming gang is? Or for that matter what its strengths, goals, tactics, and fit are? Seriously, I don't think we can have this discussion at your current level... which I realize is a dickish thing to say but... just wow.
LOL you asked a question I gave you answers. And this is your response? You just implode and turn to comments about my "current level." Whatever that means.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Cearain wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:So you made Fw more like 0.0. Awesome sauce, part from the fact that alot of the people tried Null and didn't like it cause of things like station locking out.
You've pretty much just sealed it so alot of FW corps will just leave to get their stuff out and more than likely not return. Low Sec is more likely about to get alot more Pirates and only two miltia who will be too far apart acutally fight, or on the same side.
As the Gals and Minnies have more pilots it won't actually take them long to flip systems in the TZ they Vastly outnumber their Enemies.
You idea is half asses, and every FW pilot can see it. You're coming off as people too stupid to actually understand that pilots in FW DO NOT want a stepping stone to Null Sec. That said I foresee many friends will soon no longer call themselfs an FW pilot because their are otherways of making isk and being a pirate gives you more targets anyway and no locking out. Sry but your Idea of Datecore Farming was always going to be ********. not a good reward at all. To be fair the station lockout idea is really the only horrible idea here. The rest are pretty decent ideas. Yes the increased consequences is controversial but it has its pluses. I would be fine with the station lock out IF flipping a Station was more than a 5 hour job. If it took more time than fine but asking people to put up with losing there system while they sleep is stupid. No amount of changes after the effect will change that. Plexing is in need of a change, everyone inside FW knows that even those of use that refuse to do it.
IF they timers change on plex spawns then fine, lock out station. Don't know why they include nuetral stations but whatever. A better idea would be just have two station in every FW system. Then have only the FW station do repairs, medical clones and so on. This way you still have a station to base out of but no benifits like station repairs of medical clones.
I am of the opposite view. I think the longer it takes the less ability the numerically smaller side will have to accomplish anything. The longer it takes the bigger the advantage to the side that can summon the larger blob.
Maybe don't think in terms of how long it takes to lose your stuff think in terms of how long it should take to get it back. Your stuff is still there in station. I mean if I had a bunch of stuff in a station but I knew I could get a decent organized and talented gang to get the stuff back in an hour before the other side could come and blob us out I wouldn't mind that so much.
The problem is when it takes over 3 hours to flip the thing the larger side will have plenty of time to get their blob out there. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Cearain wrote:MotherMoon wrote: I like it, I've been in FW since day 1. only left to join a different FW corp.
Ah yes the exception that proves the rule. Do you agree it makes faction war more like sov null sec? yeah totally, But at the same time, it won't be null sec, so, huzzah. Besides having FW as a gateway to whatever the new 0.0 warfare will be should be fun. If they can marry Pve and PvP to create an awesome PvP experience I'm all for it. All I'm saying is you can't speak for the whole player-base of FW before the changes have even been tested. I like having stations locked down.
I'm not speaking for them. I am just pointing out that they are speaking and have been giving feedback all along. Just look in this thread and the other numerous threads that deal with this lockout issue. You will see that by and large those in faction war do not like this change and the people who support it are often from null sec.
Don't take my word for it, look for yourself.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Cearain wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:Cearain wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:So you made Fw more like 0.0. Awesome sauce, part from the fact that alot of the people tried Null and didn't like it cause of things like station locking out.
You've pretty much just sealed it so alot of FW corps will just leave to get their stuff out and more than likely not return. Low Sec is more likely about to get alot more Pirates and only two miltia who will be too far apart acutally fight, or on the same side.
As the Gals and Minnies have more pilots it won't actually take them long to flip systems in the TZ they Vastly outnumber their Enemies.
You idea is half asses, and every FW pilot can see it. You're coming off as people too stupid to actually understand that pilots in FW DO NOT want a stepping stone to Null Sec. That said I foresee many friends will soon no longer call themselfs an FW pilot because their are otherways of making isk and being a pirate gives you more targets anyway and no locking out. Sry but your Idea of Datecore Farming was always going to be ********. not a good reward at all. To be fair the station lockout idea is really the only horrible idea here. The rest are pretty decent ideas. Yes the increased consequences is controversial but it has its pluses. I would be fine with the station lock out IF flipping a Station was more than a 5 hour job. If it took more time than fine but asking people to put up with losing there system while they sleep is stupid. No amount of changes after the effect will change that. Plexing is in need of a change, everyone inside FW knows that even those of use that refuse to do it.
IF they timers change on plex spawns then fine, lock out station. Don't know why they include nuetral stations but whatever. A better idea would be just have two station in every FW system. Then have only the FW station do repairs, medical clones and so on. This way you still have a station to base out of but no benifits like station repairs of medical clones. I am of the opposite view. I think the longer it takes the less ability the numerically smaller side will have to accomplish anything. The longer it takes the bigger the advantage to the side that can summon the larger blob. Maybe don't think in terms of how long it takes to lose your stuff think in terms of how long it should take to get it back. Your stuff is still there in station. I mean if I had a bunch of stuff in a station but I knew I could get a decent organized and talented gang to get the stuff back in an hour before the other side could come and blob us out I wouldn't mind that so much. The problem is when it takes over 3 hours to flip the thing the larger side will have plenty of time to get their blob out there. If i had stuff in a station I couldn't enter. I would just leave FW and get at it again. As will most people.
Yeah that might be the case. Or you could just give it to an alt. etc. The whole lock out idea is stupid. We both agree on that.
But I guess I am focusing more on the idea of whether the systems should flip faster or slower. I tend to think we should be able to flip them fast. It will lead to more dynamic gameplay and better for smaller fleets to do something substantial before the blob runs them out of system.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:
Yeah see I've read those threads, and for the most part what i see is a small number of posters posting a lot making it look like they are the majority.
Well, whatever, we can see who is posting and whether they are from faction war or from null sec. Just looking through this thread I think you are the only faction war player in favor of the lock out. But there are a few null sec players who think its fine.
There are plenty of faction war players who are expressing their dissatisfaction. In fact there are several people who are commenting that faction war players seem to whine allot after reading this thread. But maybe you see it different. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
355
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:There are various types of roaming gangs, but all have one thing in common... they roam. ....
Let me stop you right there. Roaming gangs actually have 2 things in common. 1)They roam and 2) they are a gang.
The rest of your post are just different qualities of the types of gangs you may like to fly in. But they don't apply to every sort of roaming gang.
And sorry, not to be crass, but unless your an alt of some other player with a more impressive killboard I don't really care what your think "eve combat 101" is.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 19:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Cearain wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:There are various types of roaming gangs, but all have one thing in common... they roam. .... Let me stop you right there. Roaming gangs actually have 2 things in common. 1)They roam and 2) they are a gang. The rest of your post are just different qualities of the types of gangs you may like to fly in. But they don't apply to every sort of roaming gang. And sorry, not to be crass, but unless your an alt of some other player with a more impressive killboard I don't really care what your think "eve combat 101" is. You've got me there, yes, they are also a gang. Feel free to be crass, I'll join you. Your kills = 433 My kills= 2630 And yes, this is my industrial character, one of my PVP characters. Now put your epeen away. Insight into these matters doesn't have anything to do with killboard stats, it has everything to do with experience with combat in something similar to its proposed form.
You have the number of kills wrong. But I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about just looks at the number of kills someone has when they evaluate their killboard. The fact that you do sort of proves my point.
It also demonstrates another difference between players in low sec looking for frequent quality small scale fun fights and players like you in null sec looking to get lots of kills and minimize your losses.
What you do with your "serious fleet engagements" is of no interest to me.
Again you really don't get it, and that is not meant as an insult but just a statement of fact.
I think the only thing we agree on is that you have experience in "something similar" to what is being proposed. That is we agree that proposal makes faction war more like your sov null sec experience. For those who want all of eve to be more of the same this is good. For those who want different ways to play the game this idea is horrible.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 19:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:There will be some of you that no doubt read a list of changes, and say "**** it" and quit without even giving the new system a chance.
I don't think the negative reaction is to the list of "changes" (plural). Its mainly to one change. No docking. In the threads and communities I have seen faction war players have been against this change pretty clearly with a few exceptions.
Now I haven't tried it out but I think the mechanic is pretty clear. We won't be able to dock in enemy controled faction war space. Do I need to fly my ship to a station on sisi and get the message "you can't dock here" to understand how that will work?
I don't know that anyone is saying that they will rage quit. I think the players have been expressing thier views on this. Yes people like ranger1 who does sov null sec might now be interested in faction war. Other null sec players think this is fine or even great. But by and large lots of faction war players (especially those who do allot of small scale pvp and plexing) would prefer they did something less drastic. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 19:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
FeralShadow wrote:So what Cearain wants to see is FW to stay as it is? Stagnant and dull? No thanks broski.
Not at all. All the changes seem agreeable except one. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 20:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: There are various types of roaming gangs, but all have one thing in common... they roam. They are not dependant of a safe station to dock in when things heat up, or having a stash of different ships and modules to swap out to if they meet appropriate resistance.
The concept of a roaming gang being unable to function unless they have a safe harbor in the target system/area is ludicrous.
A thousand times this. Ranger gets it, and its attitudes like his that will bring success in the new FW system. ....
I'm sure they will because he likes null sec and this change makes faction war more like the game he likes to play.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:[ There just shouldn't be any question that the luxury of security in every station in lowsec leads to more pilots being docked up, more of the time. This in turn reduces the number of fights to be had. .
No this will just mean people will stay docked in their non faction war system waiting longer for a "serious fleet" like ranger one describes forms. This is already the problem with faction war and new eden generally. Few go out in the smaller fleets so its just a matter of blobbery.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Whether station docking "ruins" Faction Warfare will be completely dependent on whether FW pilots are willing to be brave and make pushes into enemy space, and I'm confident enough in our skills that gangs WILL find a way to get in and seize plexes and be able to avoid the major blobs.
Do you agree that this change will make that harder to do? If you agree this change makes it harder to avoid the side with the larger blob would you agree this is a step in the wrong direction? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 20:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Cearain wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:There will be some of you that no doubt read a list of changes, and say "**** it" and quit without even giving the new system a chance. I don't think the negative reaction is to the list of "changes" (plural). Its mainly to one change. No docking. In the threads and communities I have seen faction war players have been against this change pretty clearly with a few exceptions. Now I haven't tried it out but I think the mechanic is pretty clear. We won't be able to dock in enemy controled faction war space. Do I need to fly my ship to a station on sisi and get the message "you can't dock here" to understand how that will work? I don't know that anyone is saying that they will rage quit. I think the players have been expressing thier views on this. Yes people like ranger1 who does sov null sec might now be interested in faction war. Other null sec players think this is fine or even great. But by and large lots of faction war players (especially those who do allot of small scale pvp and plexing) would prefer they did something less drastic. Players that do a lot of small scale PVP are the ones that would be affected LEAST by this change. Now I noticed you said plexing as well. That sheds a lot of light on the true objection I think, and I'm not trying to throw stones here. I'll admit the ability to plex easily isn't of any great concern to me, mostly because it's not really the main point of FW. I will say that it does help a bit to understand that for many FW pilots that may not be the case.
Your idea of a small scale pvp is probably not the same as my idea of a small pvp. I do allot of small scale pvp. And I can tell you this will effect me more than it will those who join the larger fleets with lots of scouts everywhere who never leave fleet. This will lead to people having to wait longer for bigger gangs that require more planning and scouts etc. That is what you and probably some other null secc players think eve pvp 101 is all about.
As far as plexing we can disagree on their importance for faction war. However, they are imo the best thing ccp has ever done for small scale pvp. Because you know very little about them or how its done, I am not surprised you don't understand why many in the faction war community do not like this change. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 21:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:You mean no one's been able to access SiSi at all yet?? They simply posted the list and people started debating without seeing anything first hand? haha that's what I was trying to tell them! It's silly to call something bad before you see it xD
I'm starting to think we are being trolled. Last time I heard "just wait it will be awesome" was right before incarna.
I'm sure we will love not being able to dock in enemy systems. But I suppose we won't be able to properly appreciate how great that is, until we get the message saying we are not allowed to dock here.
This particular feature is not really difficult to understand - unless we are being trolled and we can dock in enemy space.
That is why I do not blame you for liking this feature even though you never actually used it yet on sisi.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 22:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Maz3r Rakum wrote: It would encourage huge blobs to form and just "gank" a system in the 5-7 hours and thus deny the enemy from docking.
I'm with you bro. (Denial of station access) + (5-7 hour flip times) = recipe for disaster.
If it takes longer that will just mean the side that has the biggest numbers will always be able to prevent the change and there is nothing a fast smaller fleet can do.
Denial of station access + long time delays before a system flips = sov null sec and big slow blobs always win.
If you are going to deny access at least make it easy to flip the system back without needing the blob. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
356
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Posted - 2012.05.02 22:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cearain wrote: I'm starting to think we are being trolled. I don't even know what to say to this. Quote:Last time I heard "just wait it will be awesome" was right before incarna. It WILL be awesome, if you own the systems. If you don't it will suck balls.
I suppose we should see if they make it more difficult to join the side that will have it awesome if you are on the side that sucks balls.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:[
But that's the point. players have been begging for reward and consequence for years now, this is even one of the consequences that is player-requested (Many other FW pilots begged for it even though I personally hated the idea).
But again, until its been live on Tranquility, in the context of the rest of the game, and wars have been fought for some time with this new change, it is all just speculation at this point.
Yes the faction war community wanted consequences. But the "no docking" idea was by and large repeatedly rejected by the faction war community. If I am wrong please point me to the assembly hall thread or other thread where this idea ever really got allot of support from those in faction war.
That said it sounds like there are allot of good things in this expansion for faction war so I am not going to be overly negative.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
357
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Posted - 2012.05.03 01:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:
No, the point is losing space when asleep cause it can be done in 5 hours. There is no fun to be had with that. However should it take longer then its something we can live with.
I absolutely agree 100%, this was something I was very firm with the developers about. I can quote that for great justice, the CSM has been most helpful with discussing FW changes and bringing good points forward. We'll get started on a blog that explains most of the changes, expect it next week.
If it takes longer that will just mean the side that has the biggest numbers will always be able to prevent the change and there is nothing a fast smaller fleet can do.
Denial of station access + long time delays before a system flips = sov null sec and big slow blobs always win.
If you are going to deny access at least make it easy to flip the system back without needing the blob. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
361
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Posted - 2012.05.03 12:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cearain wrote: Yes the faction war community wanted consequences. But the "no docking" idea was by and large repeatedly rejected by the faction war community. If I am wrong please point me to the assembly hall thread or other thread where this idea ever really got allot of support from those in faction war.
This has always been one of the hot topics that caused much controversy. And you're right, in the end there were more people rejecting than embracing the idea. But that doesn't mean there weren't a good number of people that suggested it, which is all that I said.
Hans
The statements
"a good number of people suggested no docking."
and saying
"a good number of people suggested no docking but the majority rejected it."
may technically both be true on the same facts. But your only saying the first is pretty misleading.
And by the way it wasn't just in the end that this idea was rejected. It was rejected in the beginning,(when fw first came out) in the middle, and in the end by the players. This idea came up allot because it doesn't take much creativity to say "hey lets apply null sec mechanics in faction war"
I was going to let this go, but you continue to keep posting that this was some sort of player driven change.
I would ask that you at least be accurate and report that this is a change that the majority of the players have routinely rejected.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
361
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Posted - 2012.05.03 12:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:[quote=Marlona Sky] This the agenda a certain ex-CSM pushed for? The one to turn FW into a test bed for null sec changes? No, the majority of the major Faction Warfare changes (with the exception of datacores) were all ideas that originated from within the community. From all the of GOOD things that are coming that everyone agreed on (LP for kills, LP for plexing), to even the controversial changes like station docking denial, probably 95% of the current package stems from FW community feedback. If you don't believe me, time to start re-reading old threads. People will wail and gnash their teeth about "being forced into nullsec" but really there is little in this package that resembles anything within null sec. The exception is docking denial, which like I said is something that many FW pilots have asked for historically.
Again you leave out the fact that faction war pilots have rejected this idea historically.
With this change we will have long timers for systems to flip so blobs can be assembled to defend (read: small fast gangs can accomplish nothing) and no docking in the areas that aren't owned by militia.
Serious question: How do you think this will bring about battles different than null sec sov warfare where the bigger blob always wins? Because I don't see it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
362
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Posted - 2012.05.03 13:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: New CCP is not old CCP.
Really? You talk about iterating on faction war as if it will happen every other month. But CCP doesn't even fix bugs in the mechanics.
We have had 2 or 3 patches since a bug in the plexing mechanic has been clearly identified and ccp has not fixed it.
Jade welcome to faction war. This aint sov null sec where ccp is constantly wringing their hands to make sure everything works as intended.
Please tell me what ccp has done for faction war lately that makes you think they will give it any priority at all. Everything points to them puking this out and letting it sit there for years.
We do not even get the courtesy of a clear explanation/devblog telling us what is on sisi. No one can say.
"Go try it" is the answer.
Ok I did I see a militia tab that says I am at war with minmatar and nothing else. I can't use any services in a 24th imperial crusade station even though I fight for amarr. I do a plex and get a 17k lp for a medium but beyond that I have no idea what I accomplished. I look at the map and its the same blurry balls that give very fuzzy information.
How long am I supposed to stay on sisi trying to figure out what they are doing? The only thing that is clear is they are following through with their null sec lite plans. No docking and long timers.
BTW not all the drones show up on dscan. The sov tab on the map says (faction war) but it is listing alliances that are not in faction war. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
362
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Posted - 2012.05.03 13:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Damar Rocarion wrote: And after expansion? There is no way outnumbered militia can ever regain those systems because the blob will always be there and it will always have time to form.
Yup. Greater blob will win, and fewer people will plex for occupancy because it will take too long to capture a system. One of the great things about plexing right now is that you can capture a system in a reasonable amount of time. But whatever. Adapt as always.
Adapt = just go to null sec. Its the same overall approach of giving the larger side plenty of time to form their blob to make sure the side with fewer numbers can't accomplish anything.
Plus in null sec you get something better than watered down lp if you win. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
362
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Posted - 2012.05.03 14:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Cearain wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: New CCP is not old CCP.
Really? You talk about iterating on faction war as if it will happen every other month. But CCP doesn't even fix bugs in the mechanics. We have had 2 or 3 patches since a bug in the plexing mechanic has been clearly identified and ccp has not fixed it. Jade welcome to faction war. This aint sov null sec where ccp is constantly wringing their hands to make sure everything works as intended. Please tell me what ccp has done for faction war lately that makes you think they will give it any priority at all. Everything points to them puking this out and letting it sit there for years. We do not even get the courtesy of a clear explanation/devblog telling us what is on sisi. No one can say. "Go try it" is the answer. Ok I did I see a militia tab that says I am at war with minmatar and nothing else. I can't use any services in a 24th imperial crusade station even though I fight for amarr. I do a plex and get a 17k lp for a medium but beyond that I have no idea what I accomplished. I look at the map and its the same blurry balls that give very fuzzy information. How long am I supposed to stay on sisi trying to figure out what they are doing? The only thing that is clear is they are following through with their null sec lite plans. No docking and long timers. BTW not all the drones show up on dscan. The sov tab on the map says (faction war) but it is listing alliances that are not in faction war. Just fyi, the team shipping the faction warfare changes in Inferno will continue working on faction warfare after Inferno. Their task will be to follow up on the release and if they have time, add more stuff. First priority will be reacting to the changes that we ship, second priority adding new stuff to FW and the UI. That is their only task for the expansion following Inferno. The second thing is this: I'm not entirely sure where the impression that we want to turn faction warfare into "0.0" has come from, but it's entirely inaccurate. We're not about to do that and the only similarity to 0.0 is that you'll be able to deny docking rights, which isn't turning Fw into 0.0, but common sense for any territorial combat, no matter where it is. This is Sisi, it's a test server. It's where we put stuff to test it out and make changes, fix bugs etc. We write devblogs for releases, not for the test server. If you expect a devblog for our test server, you've entirely misunderstood how devblogs work.
Well this is good news. I hope they continue to iterate on faction war - to the extent they make it better and not more like the same thing we see in null sec.
Let me explain why the comparison with sov null sec being made:
1) In null sec it takes a long enough time to flip a system so a small gang can't do anything of substance before the more numerous side can form a blob and chase them out. You are doing this by making it take longer to flip a system. 2) In null sec you can deny docking rights so roaming fleets in enemy are more rare and take more planning and time to form up. 3) In null sec if you get the blob to capture a system you can upgrade your system so you can carebear more effectively
I mean this is basically sov null sec in a nut shell. In this expansion you are doing all these things. So in those regards you are making it more like sov null sec. In what ways is this expansion making faction war less like sov null sec?
I am not sure why it is common sense that an amarr milita member is not allowed to use any services or dock in a 24th imperial crusade station.
As far as dev blogs, I have given up on expecting them at all. The last faction war dev blog was how many years ago? If you read the end of that dev blog does it say that ccp will continue to work on faction war?
Even now it is very hard to find out how the current fw mechanics work. Can you point me to a ccp created source that really gives a detailed explanation of how many plexes need to switch and what effect the the size of the plex has on flipping it?
I am not trying to give you a hard time. I am just trying to explain that what you are doing is not being received well from many because we are already offered allot of these sorts of game play in eve and are not interested.
And although some people are saying give it a try and if it doesn't work ccp will change it there are 2 problems:
1) Some people will like these changes. The same people who like null sec have expressed they like these changes. So its not like no one will do faction war. People will. Its just that it will be people who already have what they are looking for in other parts of the game shifting back and forth. You won't be adding anything really unique to keep the people who aren't interested in the sov null sec stuff entertained.
2) Well your past history in treating faction war as something that doesn't deserve ongoing concern.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 15:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Silly Slot wrote:Cearain wrote: 1) Some people will like these changes. The same people who like null sec have expressed they like these changes. So its not like no one will do faction war. People will. Its just that it will be people who already have what they are looking for in other parts of the game shifting back and forth. You won't be adding anything really unique to keep the people who aren't interested in the sov null sec stuff entertained.
2) Well your past history in treating faction war as something that doesn't deserve ongoing concern.
and your solution to this would be....... i hear no recommendations, the big complaint was no consequences for taking systems, i mean ya you have the system but you can still dock there even though another faction took that system... i mean if CCP was adding station bashing to lowsec THEN i'd say they were going a bit screw loose, but this is a simple ability to flip system and deny rights to give the owner of the system a perk, its much easier to flip a system in FW than in Nullsec even in the new system.
The solution is obvious. Allow docking and decrease the timers so smaller gangs can have an impact. This will mean large blobs won't be fast enough to react to threats everywhere throughout the faction war region and small gangs can accomplish something. Players will be able to coodinate attacks thoughout the faction war region and not just on the frontline systems. Even if the defenders have more numbers they may have to send fleets the same size as the attacking force due to the urgency to defend at that time in those ship types.
This will make faction war more fast paced and dynamic than the blobby and slow sov null sec.
Keep some consequences of course. Maybe make station guns start to fire in systems occupied or whatever. I agree with allot of the changes in this expansion in that regard. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 15:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:In Null Sec being denied docking rights covers all reds AND neuts! the docking rights changes being proposed for FW denies only the warring factions militias.
If you're concerned about getting your stuff out of a station you cant dock.. ask your corp directors to put up a POS in system close to the undock allignment of the station in question and get the corp to blue up neut alts that can fly said ships... undock and warp ur ships to the pos to collect later..
Yeah right its pretty clear the minmatar have a stronger presence now. We won't be able to defend our space. So we already moved our stuff out of faction war space. That is not the issue. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Maz3r Rakum wrote: For FW to work it needs active players on each side. This mechanic will most likely just kill one side, and then the other side is left with nothing left to shoot, wt wise. If everyone on your team quits just like you, that's exactly what will happen. But that will be on the players, not on CCP. I think you disrespect your faction by not giving them any credit and assuming they'll all bail the minute things become more challenging. I'm sure there are many Amarr who are willing to fight against the odds. And if not, than they deserve to lose their space. v0v.
Hans I do *not* think you are just glad about this just because minmatar will win. But I do think minmatar have had the upperhand for so long you have forgotten what its like to be the underdog. These proposals of giving more time to flip a system and locking out the losing side all favor those who are already favorites.
If you think I am going to start thowing my ships away at minmatar blobs sitting in the frontline systems, for some sort of rp "Yay amarr" reasoning, you are mistaken.
Quote:You've mentioned "wait and see". Why would I want to stick around in a feature that at least in my opinion ruins the sandbox.
Cause its just your opinion that it ruins the sandbox, you don't know any better than me exactly how this will turn out. There are far too many variables, and you underestimate the resiliency and resolve of Faction Warfare pilots..[/quote]
Its not that hard to figure some of this out. Gee when they nerfed mission loot and drone loot, minerals increased in price. Who would have guessed?
But limiting were we dock tends to force fights to limitted numbers of systems. This means the blob knows where it needs to be. Forcing longer times to accomplish anything means the blob will have time to form up and undue anything a small gang tries to accomplish. This is not rocket science or speculation.
Sure perhaps some new players who like the null sec game will come in and start doing this blob pvp. Thats fine for them. I'm not interested.
Quote:I'll probably ubsub my accounts over this one feature that no one wants besides our supposed savior of a CSM Hans.
If you think this is a change I've been championing, that clearly you haven't been reading a single thing I've said. I've been opposed to lockout consistently from the beginning. Once I realized that CCP was adamant about this feature being implemented, the focus shifted to making it as sensible as possible, and I think we've done a good job of putting this consequence into a reasonable context.[/quote]
You have been repeatedly defending this decision in this thread by saying its what "many players want." You admit *most* faction war players do not want this, but you usually leave that out and just say "many players want this."
If you were posting "most players do not want this" as much as you were posting the misleading "many players want this" then people wouldn't be so confused where you stand.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:1) In null sec it takes a long enough time to flip a system so a small gang can't do anything of substance before the more numerous side can form a blob and chase them out. You are doing this by making it take longer to flip a system. 2) In null sec you can deny docking rights so roaming fleets in enemy are more rare and take more planning and time to form up. 3) In null sec if you get the blob to capture a system you can upgrade your system so you can carebear more effectively 1: I can see the point you are driving at, a fast system flip means that smaller gangs can flip a system more easily and make for a more dynamic battlefield. This is a good thing, but also you need to realize that it also makes it easier for you to have resources trapped in those stations.
Don't have resources trapped in stations at all and people will be able to use those resources to fight.
Ranger 1 wrote: Also, a longer flip time can work in the favor of those that are outnumbered. It is more difficult to keep a large fleet together for an extended period of time than it is to keep a small one together. All the smaller fleet needs (depending on the details of the mechanics involved) is an opening of time where they have an advantage (numerically or otherwise) to disrupt the efforts of the larger force. The devil will be in the details.
You don't understand how plexing works. If i can bring 30 thrashers and the other side can only bring 15 then so long as I have time I will be able to prevent them from flipping the system.
You try to argue it will be better for the smaller side to have a longer timer because of some undisclosed detail? Not really persuasive.
Ranger 1 wrote: 2: Not being able to dock in a system controlled by the enemy not only makes sense, you also really (really) need to understand that the ability to dock favors those wishing to move larger fleets into an area. it provides a staging area for them that smaller fleets don't have as much need for. Restricted docking works in favor of the underdog, and encourages smaller, faster fleets..
Go ahead and throw your smaller fleet in a fw plex against the bigger fleet. See how your smaller size works to your advantage. I will wait to see the battle reports.
Ranger 1 wrote: 3: Obviously you need to have control over the space you wish to upgrade and make more civilized from your point of view. Anything else would be highly illogical.
We will know more when all the fine details of the process come to light. I have a feeling that you are going to find that many (if not all) of your arguments end up in "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
Yeah this is the same sort of paradigm eve so often turns to. Here is a good post from someone in faction war that explains not everything has to be that way:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99578&find=unread Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Silly Slot wrote:
its eve lol 24 hours to flip a system is pretty frigging quick actually, hell customs offices tend to be longer lol
Yeah if everything in eve currently takes a long time to accomplish lets make sure every new expansion continues that.
That way we will make sure there are not new ways to play the game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Lets focus in on the docking rights issue, as this seems to be the core of many complaints and misconceptions.
.... Scenario 2:
I am the underdog with fewer pilots at my disposal, and I wish to take a system away from a larger force.
Do I have a need to dock in the target system, and do I even want to?
Not really. Docking up your smaller force will only get them camped in and unable to harrass the enemy. Your smaller fleets advantage is that it is more mobile and easier to hold together.
In this situation you need your pilots out in space, continually seeking smaller groups that you can focus on and avoiding being trapped and/or overwhelmed. Movement and mobility are your friend and work against the large and more cumbersome force. If you need a POS to stage out of that is easily accomplished, and your fleet is in a far better position to withdraw enmass for resupply when needed.
These are things you need to consider before you dismiss restricted docking.
FW plexes are hull restricted. Minors take destroyer and down. Medium takes t1 cuiser and down. etc. So if you are on the weaker side and you want to plex you would be able to pick a system and store different sized ships deep in some back water. When the enemy eventually forms up its blob to protect one sort of plex (say a minor plex that allows destroyers and down) You could, thanks to your planning and coodination, immediately jump into cruisers and run mediums or bcs/bs and run majors.
Now if your enemy is nothing but a bunch of lemmings who do nothing but form a blob at a base and then go roaming they will have to go several jumps and try to reship. If on the other hand they are a group that can easilly do a pick up gang and has stuff spread out over the system they will likely be able to bring something you can fight before the timers run.
If there is some sort of sense of urgency thanks to shorter timers that larger fleet might engage with equal numbers. If ther is no sense of urgency they will just wait until everyone gets in the right ships and they wonder back to easilly undo everythign you accomplished. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:You don't understand how plexing works. If i can bring 30 thrashers and the other side can only bring 15 then so long as I have time I will be able to prevent them from flipping the system. Actually, I understand that many of the important mechanics in FW are going to change... and that how plexing works may very well be on that list..
I couldn't tell any difference in plexing when I went to sisi except: 1) it gave lp 2) the rats *may* have been a bit weaker 3) I think I got a better tag from a cruiser wreck than what I am used to getting.
Ranger 1 wrote: I also understand asymetrical warfare, and apparently it is an alien concept to Faction Warfare FC's.
Please come out and show our fw fcs how to plex, you big brave null sec hero. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
363
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Cearain wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:You don't understand how plexing works. If i can bring 30 thrashers and the other side can only bring 15 then so long as I have time I will be able to prevent them from flipping the system. Actually, I understand that many of the important mechanics in FW are going to change... and that how plexing works may very well be on that list.. I couldn't tell any difference in plexing when I went to sisi except: 1) it gave lp 2) the rats *may* have been a bit weaker 3) I think I got a better tag from a cruiser wreck than what I am used to getting. Ranger 1 wrote: I also understand asymetrical warfare, and apparently it is an alien concept to Faction Warfare FC's.
Please come out and show our fw fcs how to plex, you big brave null sec hero. Not much into plexing thank you. I'm more into removing the enemies ability and/or desire to do so in an area I wish to control. Once that is accomplished, everything else becomes much simpler. In other words, your focus should be on beating the other players and controlling that space in "fact", not gaming the system..
Really? Thanks for telling me what i should do. Can you maybe write a guide for me. I know you said you don't do plexing, but your such a brilliant null sec player, I am sure I have allot more to learn from you about it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
364
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Maz3r Rakum wrote:@CCP
What are you guys going to do WHEN one side has all of their systems taken? Keep up the good work, and thinking through your new features to their inevitable conclusion. Economic pressures begin to encourage people to participate on the side of the losing faction. I believe that there should probalby be more incentives along this line than Data Cores, but that's the general idea.
At best this will mean the losing militia will have an incentive to carebear. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
364
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Posted - 2012.05.03 19:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Hidden Snake wrote: yeah neutrality burned in a first day ....lucky I told my guys to make they own decission in votes
What do you consider a neutral approach to this situation? considering changes which does not benefit current situation ballance of numbers .... as I said u working for ur side (which is morte numerous now). what we need changes which are neutral to all sides .... reason is simple FW allways lived in cycles ... this change is just hitting the ballance or option to reballance to place where it will not revive. Also it promotes blobery and is not properly thinked through.
Hans may have simply forgotten what its like to be the underdog in this war. But I really don't think he is purposefully trying to make mechanics that help the minmatar and gallente. These changes might help them right now but I don't think he is deliberately trying to help his own faction. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
364
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Posted - 2012.05.03 20:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: All I can do is share community feedback, the rest of the decision making is in CCP's hands. I'm just with the large number of FW pilots that are willing to TRY the new system before declaring it a failure and quitting.
Saying "This is what we're getting regardless, lets try to have some fun with it and talk again when it actually fails" is not taking sides, its simply the most practical approach given the circumstances.
Sure lots of fw pilots are willing to try it before quitting. A lot more null sec pilots are pretty positive about it too. I'm sure you see all their positive comments about this too right?
That raises the question: what do you mean it might "fail." Fail for whom? Fail for null sec inclined players who like these sorts of mechanics? No those players will do fine. There will be big fleet fights with this sort of mechanic. Lots of people like big fleet fights and so it won't fail for them. Lots of people like the idea of putting in allot of effort and getting a big reward. They too will eat this up. This will be just like what they get and like in null sec.
The problem is those of us who don't want eve to be a second job and just want frequent quality small scale pvp will not do well with this no docking and long flip times. Eve will be a much less inviting game for us.
If you are in the first camp then keep cheering about these changes. If you are in the later camp then please keep pushing ccp in that direction. Even if you know they are going to force this down our throats. Even after they force it down our throats keep pushing for our style of play. Thats why we elected you.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
366
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Posted - 2012.05.03 21:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:ahhh I'm going crazy!!!!
my new laptops GPU seem to have broken the same day as these changes go live. FFFFFFFF after three years I finally have a reason to log in, and I can't lol.
also this thread reminds me of people hating the NEO NEO COM. which is now in the game, and no one has a problem with it. BUT at the time there was people yelling off the rooftops that the neo neo com was going to ruin eve, and it was such a bad UI that it should burn in a fire.
And it got canceled before it be tested. i will not let that happen again, but this time to FW.
also like the neo neocom *which is awesome btw* people try to say "no one asked for this ccp the UI is fine! no one is complaining about your UI!" or" no one was complaining about FW, don't fix what isn't broken!"
These people must have lost part of their braincells. People have been asking for these change for years. I for one will not fight CCP for finally giving FW some attention, when I've been fighting for FW before it was even released.
Don't make me eve search up me and hilmars conversations on the forums before FW release!
Your conversation with hilmar will likely only yield you asking for this change. Most in faction war have always been against this no docking rule. It has come up allot and it gets shot down again and again.
Anyway are we supposed to be talking about what is actually on sisi?
In that case, yes I was on sisi, and although I am in the amarr militia my own militia's station wouldn't let me dock. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
371
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Cearain wrote:MotherMoon wrote:ahhh I'm going crazy!!!!
my new laptops GPU seem to have broken the same day as these changes go live. FFFFFFFF after three years I finally have a reason to log in, and I can't lol.
also this thread reminds me of people hating the NEO NEO COM. which is now in the game, and no one has a problem with it. BUT at the time there was people yelling off the rooftops that the neo neo com was going to ruin eve, and it was such a bad UI that it should burn in a fire.
And it got canceled before it be tested. i will not let that happen again, but this time to FW.
also like the neo neocom *which is awesome btw* people try to say "no one asked for this ccp the UI is fine! no one is complaining about your UI!" or" no one was complaining about FW, don't fix what isn't broken!"
These people must have lost part of their braincells. People have been asking for these change for years. I for one will not fight CCP for finally giving FW some attention, when I've been fighting for FW before it was even released.
Don't make me eve search up me and hilmars conversations on the forums before FW release! Your conversation with hilmar will likely only yield you asking for this change. Most in faction war have always been against this no docking rule. It has come up allot and it gets shot down again and again. Anyway are we supposed to be talking about what is actually on sisi? In that case, yes I was on sisi, and although I am in the amarr militia my own militia's station wouldn't let me dock. What are you taking about? my conversation with hilmar was asking where FW was when it's release date had been pushed back a year. And talking about how it will get supported and patched by a small team after release until the system was polished. I am on your side you know. we shouldn't try to cancel the change until it's tested, what so hard for you to understand about that? edit: one more thing. " Most in faction war have always been against this no docking rule. It has come up allot and it gets shot down again and again. " Yeah because only 10% of FW original population are even left. WE all left , or became inactive. The only people left must really like the current system to still be defending it, but you can't argue with the fact that FW has lost it's popularity. In a way I guess ccp should of expected this. By abandoning the feature a lot of players left *70-80% of us* and the only ones left now see it as thier game. And obviously everyone left doesn't like the changes. That doesn't make the changes bad. LETS TEST IT 1ST.
People left faction war for a variety of reasons. Bugs in the plexing mechanics that were long overdue to be fixed. The fact that much of the plexes could be run without any pvp was another. (remember ank saying she did over 100 plexes and never got a single pvp kill)
The notion that everyone left faction war because ccp never implemented a no docking rule is pretty crazy. Consequences yes people want consequences but this particular one was never popular.
No one is saying faction war should be entirely left alone. No one is saying the war shouldn't have consequences. I think the complaints are pretty squarely being placed on this no docking rule as being too violative of our casual small scale pvp attitiude.
I personally would like systems to flip more quickly but I don't claim to have any sort of majority on that issue. I think that aspect should be discussed more in depth. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
371
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
Two step wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Just so everyone's crystal clear, I'll post for you some of what I posted in the CCP internal thread. There's nothing NDA breaking about sharing my own opinions, and I think its important for you to understand where I've been coming from.
By providing some PvP-LP incentives for the losing militia, there becomes a reason to stick with your faction when the chips are down. This is extremely important to the existing community, because engaging in a long term static war against known enemies has been part of the lasting appeal. IGÇÖd hate to see Faction Warfare become a giant revolving door engaged in by pilots dipping in and out or switching sides just to make the most money. Any mechanism that helps the underdog stay in the fight and bounce back from behind is sorely needed."
Just to give a little context here, what I had suggested and what Hans was agreeing to was that as a faction starts to "win", the losing side should get *increased* LP rewards for PVP. I feel that would go a fair ways towards encouraging a more balanced outcome, and making sure that there is a real incentive to join the "losing" side.
I don't think everyone in faction war should give up on hans not by a long shot.
2 step what you are talking about is really the age old problem for faction war. Are we to give lp increases for losing? On the other hand if all the rewards go to to the winners than new people will just join the winning team - who is going to join the lower paying militia?
This is why this is a somewhat delicate matter unlike with player owned null sec alliances. Sure you can give the winner everything in that case.
Some things have been brought up in the past on this:
1) have the militias all have valuable items that are only in their lp store. So for example if amarr plates weren't useless (and more or less the same as the gallente ones) then as the amarr numbers dwindled those would rise in value as would the amarr lp.
2) The data core idea is sort of the same idea as this
But the problem with these things are they are mostly limited to pve activities. You can just use a pve alt to get these lp. Moreover to the extent you give lp for pvp kills and that lp reaches a very high value then you will just have people killing their own alts.
Anyway there is allot that can be said on this topic. But the bottom line is the consequences in faction war can't be too direct and severe. There can be consequences and they can be really nice just not too direct and severe.
Indirect consequences, I think, would be awesome. For example I always like the idea that every month a system is owned by one faction there is say a one peercent chance an station owned by a corp affiated with the sov owners enemy will be sold to one friendly with the sov owner.
Anyway Hans has a good handle on this I trust his judgment here. I am just not sure if ccp will listen to him. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
371
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Cearain wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Cearain wrote:MotherMoon wrote:ahhh I'm going crazy!!!!
my new laptops GPU seem to have broken the same day as these changes go live. FFFFFFFF after three years I finally have a reason to log in, and I can't lol.
also this thread reminds me of people hating the NEO NEO COM. which is now in the game, and no one has a problem with it. BUT at the time there was people yelling off the rooftops that the neo neo com was going to ruin eve, and it was such a bad UI that it should burn in a fire.
And it got canceled before it be tested. i will not let that happen again, but this time to FW.
also like the neo neocom *which is awesome btw* people try to say "no one asked for this ccp the UI is fine! no one is complaining about your UI!" or" no one was complaining about FW, don't fix what isn't broken!"
These people must have lost part of their braincells. People have been asking for these change for years. I for one will not fight CCP for finally giving FW some attention, when I've been fighting for FW before it was even released.
Don't make me eve search up me and hilmars conversations on the forums before FW release! Your conversation with hilmar will likely only yield you asking for this change. Most in faction war have always been against this no docking rule. It has come up allot and it gets shot down again and again. Anyway are we supposed to be talking about what is actually on sisi? In that case, yes I was on sisi, and although I am in the amarr militia my own militia's station wouldn't let me dock. What are you taking about? my conversation with hilmar was asking where FW was when it's release date had been pushed back a year. And talking about how it will get supported and patched by a small team after release until the system was polished. I am on your side you know. we shouldn't try to cancel the change until it's tested, what so hard for you to understand about that? edit: one more thing. " Most in faction war have always been against this no docking rule. It has come up allot and it gets shot down again and again. " Yeah because only 10% of FW original population are even left. WE all left , or became inactive. The only people left must really like the current system to still be defending it, but you can't argue with the fact that FW has lost it's popularity. In a way I guess ccp should of expected this. By abandoning the feature a lot of players left *70-80% of us* and the only ones left now see it as thier game. And obviously everyone left doesn't like the changes. That doesn't make the changes bad. LETS TEST IT 1ST. People left faction war for a variety of reasons. Bugs in the plexing mechanics that were long overdue to be fixed. The fact that much of the plexes could be run without any pvp was another. (remember ank saying she did over 100 plexes and never got a single pvp kill) The notion that everyone left faction war because ccp never implemented ANYTHING IN THE PAST THREE YEARS, and everyone got sick of nothing changing is pretty crazy. Fixed it for you since you were trying to put words in my mouth.
Well then you agree we don't need the no docking rule? Because that is what is causing most of the problems here. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
385
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Posted - 2012.05.04 16:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I think the only major things that really need to be discussed involve the tanking mods. The drone mod simply needs to be better (less fitting, more bonus), and the CPU rig needs to be balanced so we don't have people getting fits that shouldn't be possible (ie: cov-ops titans).
ARMOR ADAPTIVE HARDENER Simply put, it needs to be better. For starters, this module is only effective in small fights where the damage types are more concentrated as opposed to fleet fights. For this reason, these are never going to go on Capitals over a nice EANM.
With that said, the module needs to be more effective. The reason being is that this is a module that would act as your tertiary tank mod, for ships that would normally be plugging a small hole (ie: EM on T2 Gallente). It needs to be better because right now it's better to take your chances with a stacked EANM. The problem is that the adaptive module takes too long to react.
It has a 10 second cycle time and adjusts 1% into the respective spots per cycle. It takes far too much time it takes to adjust to a level that would exceed that of a stacked EANM or simply another active specific hardener.
For starters, I would give the module significantly more HP for overloading. It overheats WAY too fast, and right now it's so weak that it NEEDS to be overloaded. Next, I would say at least double the rate it adapts. Either by percentage OR by reducing the cycle time. The mod is simply too weak at the moment to be taken seriously, as it's pretty much useless on T1 ships. .
Personally I think I currently get a small advantage from carefully considering what types of hardeners/resists I put on my pvp ships. Accordinlgly I am glad these one size fits all mods are not really that great.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
401
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Posted - 2012.05.08 14:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lil Nippy wrote:Thank you CCP for finally putting some focus on FW.
For all of those complaining about station lockouts, please consider this. By locking out stations it means when you see war targets in local, you now KNOW that they are active and moving about. No more going afk during or after a roam in a enemy station for hours on end, now you need to actually travel back to a system with your factions sov and safe dock.
This alone makes it more likely to find a fight, and less likely to have enemies station camping afk targets for hours. Knowing that your targets active and not afk docked is a MAJOR change and definitely for the better.
Did they change cloaks too? I was thinking people would just put cloaks on their ships. Not only to allow the mwd cloak trick to get past the increased number of gate camps this will create, but also so they can "dock" at a safe spot.
Of course having to gimp your fit (espceially the smaller ships cruiser and down) with an expensive cloak means you will be less inclined to fight. Which is another drawback to this whole bad idea. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
403
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Posted - 2012.05.09 14:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Noriko Mai wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:GÇóFW Front Page has been fully implemented Are you sure? link That's a defect, not a lack of implementation :)
Other than the defect, that looks great! This sort of intel will definitely encourage people to do more, and hopefully fight for more plexes. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
417
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Posted - 2012.05.14 16:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:"oh noes my militia is losing its not fair."
I guess the answer is stop posting on this thread and go play the game harder and try to recruit some more people so you stop losing.
I'm not sure what you mean by "play the game harder" but I think your second suggestion, is unfortunately right on the money.
Recruiting your own blob is now the way to win faction war and null sec.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
419
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Posted - 2012.05.14 21:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
AnAmadan wrote:Why in the name of God are the FW missions still giving 20k LP? Surely this could be reduced to get rid of the mission farmers or to encourage them to plex?
Because defensive plexes do not award lp. Hence if the missions were drastically nerfed the winning side would be shooting themselves in the foot on the lp side of things. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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