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Lawlor
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:44:00 -
[1]
I have see no Thread last 10 Pages for this Topic so,
Please cancel Local (like in Wormholes) at last in 0.0 and Low Sec.
Reason? in short, overall you come today you see alt chars (mostly in NPC Corp¦s) in cloak ships,docked in Stations as Local Spy¦s that check all time the Numbers and Players that jump in and out....there is no Chance atm to really surprise anyone in his System (except you use Covert Cynos and jump directly at your Target.
You make changes like to the Stealth Bomber¦s (with Covert Cloak Device) but this all is useless since even if you have a Fleet of 10 or more SB¦s (to hunt BS) everyone see them in Local....you see if People jump in and you see the Corp,Sec Status and all other Informations.
Result is that today most Fleet¦s (especially Gate Camp¦s in Low Sec) dock immediately (or jump away) as soon there is anyone, in 1-2 Jump Range of them, that is strong enough to give them a real fight.
Change Local to chat only with no other Info¦s or that only People that speak in Local will be displayed but no Characters and no Numbers more.
Its no big work but it will give EVE much more PvP, every side will face the same Risk&Reward.
Sorry for all mistakens, english is not my language 
greetings
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Malin folkungs
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:54:00 -
[2]
If this is a petition ill sign it.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:56:00 -
[3]
The problem is valid but the solution is not.
If you've ever been in W-space as a neutral entity you'd realize what an absolutely awful experience it is trying to keep up to date on what might be in your system wanting to kill you.
There needs to be an adequate replacement for local that does not involve spamming a button repeatedly every few seconds.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Malin folkungs
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Posted - 2009.04.02 18:01:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Wet Ferret
The problem is valid but the solution is not.
If you've ever been in W-space as a neutral entity you'd realize what an absolutely awful experience it is trying to keep up to date on what might be in your system wanting to kill you.
There needs to be an adequate replacement for local that does not involve spamming a button repeatedly every few seconds.
Ive been living in a WH for 3 weeks now and I love local. It actually keeps you safer.
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jade ronin
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Posted - 2009.04.02 18:03:00 -
[5]
there needs to be a new form of scanning (like radar) to offset the loss of local as intel tool. other wise there will be very few ratters and miners in 0.0. Finding targets will be much harder. think about it ... no ratters no roaming gangs looking for them no gate camps to catch the roaming gangs ...total break down of game play.So i would have to say no to doing away with local all together.the W-space is a bit different in the fact thats not where people live and the resources pulled from there are only for t3 production . the risk v reward factor makes it worth going in knowing you have no intel.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.02 18:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Malin folkungs
Ive been living in a WH for 3 weeks now and I love local. It actually keeps you safer.
Uh, what? It takes approximately 10 seconds to find out if someone is in a wormhole system. If you're not cloaked, you're going to be found out, and very fast (maybe not found, but that's beside the point, and even that won't take long).
The only thing keeping you safer is the nature and randomness of WHs, not lack of local intel.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Saya Starwind
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Posted - 2009.04.02 21:16:00 -
[7]
0.4 space and below should not track every pilot in local. Local is an information system, which means it conveys intel, this level of intel shouldnt be present in low sec systems where there is little to no civilization present, intel of this level needs to be earned manually or by device.
Instead, they could make a new structure to add to a POS or outpost, anyone belonging to the corp that has such a structure active in that system, will have limited ability to see people in local (anyone outside of AU range are not visible) the more of these structures they have situated at different POS / Outposts in the system, the better accuracy your local gets...
There should be a second AU range parameter on the structure, this determines how close a stealthed individual can be before they become visible in local.
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VoiceInTheDesert
Zebra Corp
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.04.02 21:40:00 -
[8]
My idea would be to make the directional scanner constant while it's open...so you can just flip to the tab and watch if something shows up. Makes more sense RP wise since I doubt any future spaceships will have a sort of "snapeshot" scanner system that we are using now. Makes more sense to have it be dynamic to me.
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2009.04.03 03:26:00 -
[9]
would be nice without local in 0.0
___________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Spurty
Caldari
Amok.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 03:37:00 -
[10]
yah be the end of roaming gangs (unless they want to trust the map for their 30min average info for where to go roaming) lol.
Just think without a replacement way to gather the info about people in the system, its going to back fire and be horrible mostly for those asking for it the most.
Originally by: Butter Dog
I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
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Corriander
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.03 04:53:00 -
[11]
A possible 'local' solution I put in another thread
Originally by: Corriander
The idea of doing away with local has been floating around for some time. The recent æglitchÆ to local on SISI (whether intentional or not) has sparked a few discussions/rages about its potential fate. I am completely æLocalÆ neutral, so if it stays or goes I could care less. I do, however, see a potential repurposing for the recently defunct POS module, the System Scanning Array.
Empire, for all intensive purposes, is civilized space. Per CONCORD mandate, system occupants are reported via the æLocalÆ system for all to see. Nothing changes.
Low-sec and NPC 0.0 space are a gray area since technically they are faction, not CONCORD, occupied space. For these areas, local would be paired with positive standings with the occupying faction. Take Molden Heath for example, if you have positive standings with the Minmatar Republic, local appears as it currently does. If you have neutral or negative standings, local is reported on a broadcast only basis (similar to Alliance chat). Access to ælocalÆ would be based on true standings, not as modified by the various social skills, so players seeking to gain access to ælocalÆ must earn the tactical advantage.
0.0 space, being lawless and unoccupied, does not report local by default. It acts solely on a broadcast basis where you only appear upon posting. Now bring back the System Scanning Array (SOV1 anchor, SOV2 online) and make it so the controlling alliance has the option to provide ælocalÆ through associated standings. This provides a æhome turfÆ advantage to the occupying alliance that they can see system occupants in local but hostiles can not. This also means that just as jammers and jump bridges are taken out as a part of 0.0 SOV wars, it allows local æcommunicationsÆ to be taken down as well.
The data elements to do this should already be inherent to local as standings are reported to make the little blue and red boxes next to names. All that would be needed is a conditional pre-filter to determine player access to local on a system-by-system basis.
The end result would leave local in place where it is most wanted while adding a whole new positive element to low-sec, NPC 0.0 and Alliance controlled space.
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Major Deviant
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Posted - 2009.04.03 07:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Corriander
A possible 'local' solution I put in another thread
Originally by: Corriander
The idea of doing away with local has been floating around for some time. The recent æglitchÆ to local on SISI (whether intentional or not) has sparked a few discussions/rages about its potential fate. I am completely æLocalÆ neutral, so if it stays or goes I could care less. I do, however, see a potential repurposing for the recently defunct POS module, the System Scanning Array.
Empire, for all intensive purposes, is civilized space. Per CONCORD mandate, system occupants are reported via the æLocalÆ system for all to see. Nothing changes.
Low-sec and NPC 0.0 space are a gray area since technically they are faction, not CONCORD, occupied space. For these areas, local would be paired with positive standings with the occupying faction. Take Molden Heath for example, if you have positive standings with the Minmatar Republic, local appears as it currently does. If you have neutral or negative standings, local is reported on a broadcast only basis (similar to Alliance chat). Access to ælocalÆ would be based on true standings, not as modified by the various social skills, so players seeking to gain access to ælocalÆ must earn the tactical advantage.
0.0 space, being lawless and unoccupied, does not report local by default. It acts solely on a broadcast basis where you only appear upon posting. Now bring back the System Scanning Array (SOV1 anchor, SOV2 online) and make it so the controlling alliance has the option to provide ælocalÆ through associated standings. This provides a æhome turfÆ advantage to the occupying alliance that they can see system occupants in local but hostiles can not. This also means that just as jammers and jump bridges are taken out as a part of 0.0 SOV wars, it allows local æcommunicationsÆ to be taken down as well.
The data elements to do this should already be inherent to local as standings are reported to make the little blue and red boxes next to names. All that would be needed is a conditional pre-filter to determine player access to local on a system-by-system basis.
The end result would leave local in place where it is most wanted while adding a whole new positive element to low-sec, NPC 0.0 and Alliance controlled space.
IMHO this is a great idea for a change in local. I do not know how the 0.0 alliances would view this.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.04.03 07:55:00 -
[13]
If you removed local you could not legitimately expect people to spam scan every 5s. That either means:
You expect them to get bored about clicking a button constantly and die.
You're going to automate the scanner.
The reason the scanner isn't automated right now is because it would cause server lag. That means wanting to remove local you either beleive ccp will actually increase server lag, or that they think the first option above is accpetable.
Then the question is, other than an automated scanner, what other intelligence tools will be provided? How will they be different enough from local to warrant the change?
I'm in favor of removing local. Or at least really strongly considering it. But if there isn't enough of a crutch to replace it, which is part of my last point, i won't fly much more than a t1 cruiser for fear of losing something expensive to a 50 man blob that was hiding in system in a deep safespot.
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CDLoon
Minmatar
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2009.04.03 14:36:00 -
[14]
Was about to post this - but I see you have already suggested it.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but how about delayed local only in non-sov 0.0 systems, meaning normal local in systems where sov is claimed.
*RP element would suggest claimed systems have better comms*
This will mean that large numbers of systems are viable for ambushes, and alliances would be more keen to expand their domains, weakening themselves if they reach too far.
Thoughts/smack away.
Carry on :D
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CDLoon
Was about to post this - but I see you have already suggested it.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but how about delayed local only in non-sov 0.0 systems, meaning normal local in systems where sov is claimed.
*RP element would suggest claimed systems have better comms*
This will mean that large numbers of systems are viable for ambushes, and alliances would be more keen to expand their domains, weakening themselves if they reach too far.
Thoughts/smack away.
Carry on :D
Would not work at all in systems with static content. It is far easier to find someone when you already have beacons to warp to to find ratters/miners and don't even need to scan for them.
And, yet again, this makes the victim's life absolutely miserable under current mechanics.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Vall Kor
Minmatar
ZipZoom Kaboom
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:24:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vall Kor on 03/04/2009 16:26:31
They would need to introduce a new way to see what's in the system, other wise defense of local space (think 0.0) would be impossible using methods currently in game. This could be a new type of probe or updated ship scanner that has to be cycled on demand.
But you will need some sort of intel tool to see what is around you (friend or foe) at all times.
"By way of deception, thou shalt do war"
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: CDLoon
Was about to post this - but I see you have already suggested it.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but how about delayed local only in non-sov 0.0 systems, meaning normal local in systems where sov is claimed.
*RP element would suggest claimed systems have better comms*
This will mean that large numbers of systems are viable for ambushes, and alliances would be more keen to expand their domains, weakening themselves if they reach too far.
Thoughts/smack away.
Carry on :D
Would not work at all in systems with static content. It is far easier to find someone when you already have beacons to warp to to find ratters/miners and don't even need to scan for them.
And, yet again, this makes the victim's life absolutely miserable under current mechanics.
^ This is what people for some reason seem to be never get. The victim will not sit there waiting to die - they'll go run missions in empire if the probability of dying is absurd - which it will be if they always have to be in a couple of well-defined places (asteroid belts).
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Corriander
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Major Deviant
Originally by: Corriander
stuff
IMHO this is a great idea for a change in local. I do not know how the 0.0 alliances would view this.
The original idea was posted in my alliance forum and was only the 0.0 part. It was they who asked me to bring it over to these forums, after which I added the faction standing part for low-sec. At least one 0.0 alliance likes the idea.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
If you removed local you could not legitimately expect people to spam scan every 5s. That either means:
You expect them to get bored about clicking a button constantly and die.
You're going to automate the scanner.
The reason the scanner isn't automated right now is because it would cause server lag. That means wanting to remove local you either beleive ccp will actually increase server lag, or that they think the first option above is accpetable.
Then the question is, other than an automated scanner, what other intelligence tools will be provided? How will they be different enough from local to warrant the change?
I'm in favor of removing local. Or at least really strongly considering it. But if there isn't enough of a crutch to replace it, which is part of my last point, i won't fly much more than a t1 cruiser for fear of losing something expensive to a 50 man blob that was hiding in system in a deep safespot.
Your logic is flawed since it depends on one argument that is most likely not true. There is no reason to suppose that the auto-scanner would have to unacceptably lag the server to produce useful data (and be a useful replacement for Local).
...
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:59:00 -
[20]
Perhaps they can have a rig that disconnects you from local in knownspace? Give it some sort of penalty (CPU?). Think there was something like that in one of the early datadumps before FW.
Taxman VII: Kingdom of Vlad
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 03/04/2009 18:29:04
/unsigned.
Local is fine. Period.
Originally by: Malin folkungs
Ive been living in a WH for 3 weeks now and I love local. It actually keeps you safer.
No, it doesn't. What keeps you safe, is that there is a small probability than an ennemy had found your wormhole.
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Zewdire
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Posted - 2009.04.05 17:31:00 -
[22]
Removing or delaying update of local is a hirrible idea. Local is the only thing to allert you when hostiles are in sys.
Realy hope this won't be realized by ccp as it whould make any industrial/mining impossible without huge support fleet wich then make revards close to zero. I realy hate toon that only think pvp not realizing that it's industry/mining that give them there ships/modules they fly and enjoy blowing up and all things affected by a change, get a clue on what will be the result of what you propose or don't post at all.
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Tekashi Kovacs
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.05 18:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zewdire
Removing or delaying update of local is a hirrible idea. Local is the only thing to allert you when hostiles are in sys.
Local is also the only thing to allert 'hostiles' when you are in sys. It works in both ways and I think it would be better and much more realistic if local were removed. Also more fun if hostiles were forced to scan even empty systems to find if you are here or not. To balance it out they need to make probing players much harder tho...
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.04.05 18:51:00 -
[24]
No local = cloak buff.
Make cloaked ships appear on directional scanner or something.
Not to pinpoint them or anything, just to let you know they're there.
It's not very fair if you attacked a wartarget and 10 of his friends immediately uncloaked now is it?
How would you know without local?
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
If you removed local you could not legitimately expect people to spam scan every 5s. That either means:
You expect them to get bored about clicking a button constantly and die.
You're going to automate the scanner.
The reason the scanner isn't automated right now is because it would cause server lag. That means wanting to remove local you either beleive ccp will actually increase server lag, or that they think the first option above is accpetable.
Then the question is, other than an automated scanner, what other intelligence tools will be provided? How will they be different enough from local to warrant the change?
I'm in favor of removing local. Or at least really strongly considering it. But if there isn't enough of a crutch to replace it, which is part of my last point, i won't fly much more than a t1 cruiser for fear of losing something expensive to a 50 man blob that was hiding in system in a deep safespot.
Your logic is flawed since it depends on one argument that is most likely not true. There is no reason to suppose that the auto-scanner would have to unacceptably lag the server to produce useful data (and be a useful replacement for Local).
so several thousand scanners, detecting items in the hundreds and reporting the finding every few seconds for you will not have a impact on server performance?
Your faith in EVe server is great.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:25:00 -
[26]
If local was gone in low sec and 0.0 there would need to better intel gathering tools, thats pretty obvious.
What CCP really needs to look is the fact that in current game mechanics a professional ninja ratter/isk farmer is almost invulerable to a roaming gang. Your only hope is to spam the belts with 2 interceptors each, even then if he is ratting aligned to a safe, as is usually the case with the 24/7 farmers, your odds of catching him are 0 the instant he sees local pop. He will insta warp and cloak.
This problem will need looking into even if local is "fixed". The thing I don't want to see is cloaked recons losing their iniative bonus to whatever new local replacement, "intel gathering tool" that gets implemented.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tekashi Kovacs
Originally by: Zewdire
Removing or delaying update of local is a hirrible idea. Local is the only thing to allert you when hostiles are in sys.
Local is also the only thing to allert 'hostiles' when you are in sys. It works in both ways and I think it would be better and much more realistic if local were removed. Also more fun if hostiles were forced to scan even empty systems to find if you are here or not. To balance it out they need to make probing players much harder tho...
Quote:
Local is also the only thing to allert 'hostiles' when you are in sys.
No, it's not. Scanning a system takes seconds, and the only time you won't find out if someone is in it, is if they're cloaked or docked. You don't even need a dedicated scanner in k-space since you already know players are going to be at the belts (you can even use the directional scanner to pinpoint which one).
The situation favors the attacker while putting all the burden on the victim. Ask yourself what you would rather do, scan once or twice per system or every 5 seconds?
Rewarding the attentive is fine and all, but forcing monotonous, repetitious scanning to have any measure of safety is the wrong way to go about things.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
If you've ever been in W-space as a neutral entity you'd realize what an absolutely awful experience it is trying to keep up to date on what might be in your system wanting to kill you.
Odd, I am a neutral entity, I wander wh, but I never realized it. Just yesterday somebody was out to kill me, I saw him, and I gtfo.
Not really that complicated. Of course a proper ship fitting may help.
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Let Nelass
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Posted - 2009.04.05 19:45:00 -
[29]
How about if we introduce a system-wide gateflash in 0.0 systems? Whenever someone enters or leaves a 0.0 system using a jump gate a spatial distortion creates a visual effect on the HUD of everyone in the system. The duration and intensity of this effect could give some limited idea of how many (or perhaps how massive) ships are jumping in.
Let's say the standings system is used so that you communicate your presence (via local) to everyone in the system that you have positive standings towards as an automatic courtesy. This way by keeping track of local you know whether there is friendly or enemy movement, but have only a limited grasp of how much movement.
Local could be delayed by enough time to get a decent size fleet through with good organization before local updates to their presence, say 25-30 seconds.
Maybe Blockade Runners, Cov, Recon and Black Ops ships could be spared this system-flash as a role bonus. (perhaps they also have the subtle scanners needed to detect the reduced system-flashes that these stealthy ships produce)
In Empire of course these flashes would be a constant huge pain, which is why Concord has deployed special quantum spatial stabilizers to suppress it. These can also be anchored in Sov 1 and on-lined in Sov 2 systems and configured to only suppress ships that are in the alliance or that the alliance has a positive standing towards.
This way ratting and mining ships have some inclination that they should seek cover, while still making it possible to move fleets and HAC gangs quietly, as well as making scouting more interesting. It will no longer be a good idea to sit behind a cloak, as then you tip the enemy off to your presence.
Not sure how best to treat log-ins and Wormholes. Log-in flash and Wormhole flash which is qualitatively different from system-wide gate-flashes perhaps?
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Spurty
Caldari
Amok.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.05 20:10:00 -
[30]
The *only* simple solution I can think of to get local to vanish is to make the map update statistics every 30seconds with reports of 3 things:
- blue
- neutral
- red
In every system within 3~5 jumps of your current system.
Will need to have this info appear in the F11 maps
Originally by: Butter Dog
I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
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