Without going into exhaustive detail:
1. Cannot dock in stations that are in systems controlled by an enemy
- Example: Minmatar cannot dock in stations in a FW system controlled by the Amarr/Caldari
- You also cannot use station services if you docked before system flipped
- Ninja Edit: This does not affect neutrals

2. There are 5 levels of discounts for a number of different things - if you own the system and have upgraded it
- Medical clone discounts (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50% discount)
- Number of assembly lines increases by 1 for every level
- All broker fees discounted (from 10% in increments of 10 up to 50%)
- NOTE: You only get these discounts in the FW system
- ADDENDUM: These discounts apply to neutrals not in FW

3. Militia store LP prices are affected by faction wide performance (discounts in increments of 10%)
- Note that Datacores have been split and moved in FW LP stores
- Pending implementation, LP gain increase for all ways in which LP can be gained in FW - FW Kills, FW Missions, Complexs etc

I do believe these are the most prominent consequences implemented/pending.

Why do you think people will start throwing ships at your blobs? People in null sec aren't even doing that and they have much bigger stakes to fight for.

They made it take much longer to flip systems.

I predict the pve will give you mad amounts of lp. I intend to give it a fair shake, but it looks like the best bet will be to put your pvp characters in a neutral corp and have your pve alts in fw.

Faster system flipping sounds like it would be in order here.

The enemy not letting you dock in their stations makes sense. Hell, enemy sentry guns shooting you when you get close makes sense. Having to gather together gigantor blobs to duke it out before anything meaningful happens does not make sense.

Faster system flipping and/or a more dynamic "contested" period is definitely what is in order here.

It is not about the size of the dog in the fight, It is about the size of the fight in the dog .....

.... we lack numbers we compensate it by sneaky techniques .... ECM bursts etc. ... funny how he is buthurt they did not catch my SBing, stabbed, cloaky, ECM burst scorpion ..... ;)

[NOTHING COULD BE WORSE THAN WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

Hans the station lockout idea sucks. You know it. You even said it. Just *keep* telling ccp that. Thats all we ask.

No you can't be casual and do null sec. Plus I am not asking for everyone else in the game to to bend to my prefence of casual play. I am just asking that ccp allow one part of the game allow for casual play and frequent quality pvp.


You want "hardcore"? Null sec offers it. Really it does, go for it. Hardcore computer gaming mmo in its finest. I just ask that every part of eve not be like a second job.

Let me roam around shoot stuff and if I need to take care of something in real life, I would like to just dock up and take care of it. Not have to worry about going 10 jumps to dock up first.

Were you ever able to accomplish anything in those nimble fleets you took into null? Do you think those nimble small fleets that can't dock anywhere will ever be able accomplish anything of substance in faction war occupancy? If so, how do you picture that happening?

The amount of time it takes to flip a system is changing. This means the side that can form the bigger blob will be able to easilly undue anything these nimble fleets hope to accomplish.

Good point. I am not sure how the no lp for defensive plexing will work out. Will the defending side let the other side flip a system or two so they can then farm the lp? Will both sides greedilly farm the the offensive plexes and pass eachother like 2 ships in the night? I agree this is hard to know how this will work out in practice and whether this will actually yield more plex fights.

Why would the blob care that Caldari "contests" 2-3 systems and deblob? They will have forty hours to go over and deal with that system. Why not just keep taking systems right next to eachother so that if the caldari do try anything they can all warp in and blob them?

The blobs will be the only entities that can finish the job.

I also totally agree that with all of the changes on the table for this expansion, the most fair thing to do would be to reset Sov across the board. I've already been talking to CCP about this particular issue.

I tend to agree with X Gallentius. The only reason I would think they should consider resetting the map is because they are just not correcting known bugs with the plexing mechanic. But that has pretty much always been the case.

Even if they reset the map I am moving my **** out of fw space anyway. I think resetting the map just delays the inevitable where the larger side will quickly dominate. I say the quicker ccp can see the stupidity of this system the better.


However I bet they will reset the map. They want to delay that inevitable conclusion as much as possible.

amarr's 18 remaining systems (mostly in dumb places) means the amarr will be even less able to fight than they are now, so with that i expect my corp and a few others will have to reluctantly leave fw, real shame :(

Because yeah, they won't be getting recruited into FW corps that already have foundations who could help them out with stuff like that

I have always thought that that large null sec alliances are much easier for new pilots than faction war. They tell you how to fit your ships. The primaries are often just in alphabetical order. Nothing a noob does wrong is likely to cost a fight. They have forums with helpful information and pilots who are trying to recruit and help new players.

So to the extent this makes faction war even more of a blob to win game, this is more newb friendly. Whether it teaches newbs what is really great about eve is a different question. Now like null sec its going to involve more teaching the lemmings to swim together. The quality small scale pvpers are unlikely to have a role in the actual occupancy combat anymore.

With these changes faction war becomes like level 3 missions to null sec level 4 missions. You will basically have to do all the same sorts of grinds of null sec - just in smaller ships and for much lower pay. If I wanted to go recruiting and building connections and coodinating large fleets to grind stuff I would be in null sec going after allot bigger rewards.

I really wonder why the people that like these changes just don't go to null sec and get a much bigger return for all the "effort" and "work" they do. I ldon't mean that as any sort of insult either. Its a sincere question. Null sec is the place where you get the big returns on hard work - if that is what you want in eve.

Not that I don't agree with you on this point, but there are ways of dealing with it. You could put up a staging pos in the system you're attacking with a ship maintenance array - each corp or alliance just needs a small to get it done. I think it brings some much needed logistical considerations to a fairly easy place to live, and I like that about the system.

Let's be crystal clear about what we're talking about here and cut through some of the hysteria. "Sov reset" is actually a misleading and inaccurate term for what is being discussed.

Huola has always been the sovereign space of the Amarr Empire. Auga has always been the sovereign space of the Minmatar Republic. That has never once been adjusted, modified, or changed, and continuity of this fact into the May 22 expansion would not truly be a "Sov reset". The argument that CCP should reset 0.0 sovereignty is a straw-man, because we're not actually talking about CCP moving sovereignty lines, though that is how everyone is interpreting this.

What CCP proposed at Fan Fest was removing the meaningless occupancy mechanic, and giving capsuleers the ability to fight over actual Sovereignty. Many pilots made an assumption at this point, and planned efforts to reinforce their occupation in enemy sovereign space, despite the fact that CCP was saying they would be removing occupancy entirely. These pilots assumed that CCP would just arbitrarily change occupancy into Sovereignty, which would indeed be a shuffling of who has sovereignty, a forced adjustment akin to fiddling with null sec Sov as you pointed out. Saying that current Sovereignty designations will remain the same following the May 22 is not truly a "Sov reset" and therefore not some radical action akin to what you are suggesting.

The bottom line is that neither CCP nor the CSM can advocate rules or changes that are based upon the actions capsuleers take in anticipation of a package of changes that was never set in stone, and still isn't set in stone. It's a tough pill to swallow for some, but every single patch there is a similar flurry of economic activity, and plenty of pilots have lost billions before speculating on future changes that may or may not come to pass. CCP cannot change that policy now and make Sovereignty adjustments simply because pilots moved into enemy sov space under the assumption it would magically become their own.

We could debate this all day, or we can simply and see what the final package and procedure is going to be when the dev blog comes out this week. Either way, players will have almost two weeks to gird themselves for the coming war and prepare their battle plans.

Problem, atleast half amarr miltia is -5 or below.

Not that I don't agree with you on this point, but there are ways of dealing with it. You could put up a staging pos in the system you're attacking with a ship maintenance array - each corp or alliance just needs a small to get it done. I think it brings some much needed logistical considerations to a fairly easy place to live, and I like that about the system.

Amarrian Slavetrader, it would be much more productive to post your insight on your main character instead of a trolling alt.

Don't blame militia for being 'pirate'. Do we have some? Sure. But some of us wouldn't be negative if we didn't have to take sec standings and GCC for shooting neutral alts of the enemies.

Thus, when attackers invade your space they are actually stealing your hard-earned LP, and causing your system upgrades to be slowly stripped away unless you do something about it.
...
So the reward for defensive plexing is supposed to be that you continue to enjoy your system upgrades. Oh yeah, and still be able to dock. That should be a pretty big motivator to chase off the enemy without needing to paid on top of that.

[/ quote] You sure the name of your corp isn't Imperial Forum Outlaws?[/ quote]


We could make alts and put them in that corp and post here. Because trolling is how you communicate your interests to CCP.

quoting

I do find it funny all the smack that comes from the Minmatar & Gallentte right now when it wasn't so long ago they were on the receiving side of getting face pounded.

When I first started FW I was on Minmatar side and to be honest Amarr used to curb stomp us pretty much when ever they wanted to. Minmatar used to throw total crap gangs at Amarr's Guardian supported Abaddon & Geddon gangs to the point there wasn't anything Minmatar guys could do aside from lose a lot of ships or stay docked.

Minmatar's "late night crew" was only a successful late night crew because that's the only time zone Amarr couldn't dominate them.

At the same time Caldari was curb stomping Gallentte and was getting medals for owning every system while Gals were crying about NPC's and that plexing didn't matter. Meanwhile their high sec systems were camped and they couldn't do much about it. Caldari blobs ruled their space and even started coming down to Minmatar space because they couldn't get fights out of Galentte.

Now a year or so later roles are reversed for the time being and Gals/Mins seem to have forgotten how they used to get curb stomped daily while trying to be smug as if it never happened.

It would be very funny to have seen these changes go into effect back then as all these posts would be reversed with Gals & Minmatar crying for resets or that their side wouldn't be able to compete because they are out blobbed and Caldari & Amarr guys telling them to man up.

Hans

A good game mechanic is one that works such that if someone plays by the rules and wins they deserve credit. No one should complain if one side wins by "blobbing" if the game is set up so you can win by blobbing.

CCP can easilly make faction war one where blobbing ftw is severely limitted. Yes there will always be an advantage for the side with more active players. But if they spread things out the side with better pvpers, more ships strategically located, and yes to some extent more isk to burn, would greatly offset that numbers advantage. Instead they are making the mechanics such that there is very little you can do to offset a large numbers advantage.

Or they could make you clear the npc's in order to cap.

But I haven't heard anything about touching the plexes themselves.

So, people who can actually use SiSi:

1. can you 'active tank' a system? Oh no, Iron Oxide's close to taking Sosan, and nobody's interested in fighting them, but I have a gazillion LP. Can I keep investing LP into the system to delay the capture?

2. Is the LP payout different? Will I be rewarding them with more LP than they'd otherwise get?

3. Can you tell how much LP is invested in an enemy system? Based on feedback comments so far, I guess not.

If the answer to #1 is 'no', I'd like to know what prevents that. Maybe, you can't invest LP into a contested system - so I should've decided that I wanted Sosan to be able to last for a length of time under attack before they launched the attack. This would make it a severe grind to take a 'home system' vs. any random system, but it would still be a finite grind, people could not fly off, do some offensive plexing, and then rush back to drop Sisyphus's rock back on the attackers.

I understand that completely, and I agree to a point. I just like to have consistency with mechanics, because otherwise it just feels weird. Not a huge deal, just being a little picky. Fun gameplay is by far the most important, it would just be nice to have both.

One thing I think everyone can agree on - these changes are significant and the future of FW is going to be interesting. Eagerly awaiting the dev blog next week!

That would be quite fun if that were the case, but we both know CCP would never do that.

Recall the last 3 times you have told your corp "go stash a ship in X system, we are going to JC over or pod over and surprise those flipping ****** evil spiting frogs"

Sorry, thought you were talking about station lockout. We concluded months ago that station lockout was stupid.

This will mean I can not play eve unless I can make sure I have that extra uninterrupted time set aside. I often will just sign on for a half hour and roam to find a system busy with wts and pop open a plex hoping for fight. Now I am going to have to go jumping several jumps back to and from base everytime. These sorts of roams will be very limitted or likely even non-existant. When I am with a gang I usually can not stay online for the entire roam before I have to quit for the night. So this change means I will need to leave the gang even earlier so I can go several jumps back to base. So for me, I know this means less eve.

First, there was no retreat. We saw the changes our minmatar csm overlord was pushing for and we decided we didn't want to risk being locked out of our stuff. Now with the increase in flip times its not such a worry.

Second, Egg is closer to the Minmatar bases than our old base. If anything we advanced! Use a little better judgement in your words Hans.

Third, and final, I hoped when I voted for you I was voting for a FW csm voice. Now Im sure I voted for a Minmatar CSM. You can say all you want about how you pushed for fair changes but dev blogs and patch notes say so much more than you. Im really sorry I wasted my vote this year. Next year I won't make the same mistake.

Hans is now saying station lockouts are tolerable.

edit: BTW I do not think hans was biased to minmatar. I just think he has been biased toward ccps and csm 6s plans to make this null sec light. Specifically his advocating Station lockouts and long flip times.

Well, he is definitely pro-long flip times. A lot of people are. It makes sense, at least with the hefty penalty of station lockouts. To my understanding, he was trying to get CCP to reconsider the station lockout but they were dead set on it.

I still think (and a lot of people in Minmatar) that the full lockout is going to be super detrimental to the warzone. I'm personally in favor of denial of station services, but hopefully CCP will be able to get a lot of feedback from the Tranq. server and maybe reconsider the full lockout once it goes live.

Personally I am not in favor of anything that prevents the losing side from putting up a fight. Including station services. Gate fire from stations is fine because that doesn't effect fighting in plexes.

Long flip times just favor the side that can get a blob. Shorter flip times would favor hit and run small gangs. The shorter flip times also brought about more pvp in and around plexes.

Anyway I wrote a seperate thread on this issue with a more detailed analysis of the pros and cons.

Because those high sec Level 4 LP's are a fixed value, and can never be made MORE valuable through a coordinated PvP campaign. LP earned in FW, however, can buy a substantially greater number of items if you work with your faction to drive the LP store cost back down and cash them out at that point in time.

The only thing that needs to play out is which side is going to be the winning side or whether some large alliance, will show how great they are, and decide to grind a losing faction to a winning one so they can profit. The mechanics are very well suited for a large null sec alliance to come and do just that. They can easilly quell any opposition just like in sov null sec.

.

You can see there is a lot of people agreeing with each other that normally would troll the crap out of each other under different circumstances.

That might be the writing on the wall here.

Why not:...

Hey, you did all you could possibly do before backing down.

I just re-watched a video someone did to support your candidacy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPCggF0O8_o

I threw up a bit around 4:15.

Bingo. No real mystery about that..

However when ccp implements mechanics that promote blobbing that is a problem. For example no one being able to dock will severely limit the number of different systems the losing side can hit at at the same time. (thereby splitting up the blob) Hence the effectiveness of having a blob is amplified. This is the sort of pro null sec mechanic that is a big part of the new system. Do you think limitting where people can base out of hurts blobbing?

This and other reasons how this will lead to more blob warfare have been explained, so I won't go through them again - unless you missed them.

There will always be small gang fights off the main pipes. If you're after small fights, then roam away from the front lines and the home systems of various FW alliances/corps. Make a base in a non-FW system that's close to the action:
Gallente/Caldari low sec for Minmatar/Amarr theater. Gallente low sec or even Syndicate for Gallente space. Mara/Karja for Caldari space.

Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P

As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players...

They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see.

*ahem*. C'mon now, no head starts on it now. Wait for Inferno and a solid anecdote before you make the thread.

I'd much rather engage aggressors when my system is at 5% contested instead of 95% contested, but maybe that's just me.

The big question is how much will the upgrades effect the 16x multiplier. Is it going to be effected more by just the raw number of systems or is it going to be effected much more by the lp upgrades?

Awesome thanks for going through this. So we can upgrade systems that have no stations?

But doesn't that assume that all of the other sides systems are fully upgraded?