|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 17:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I havent read them yet, but here are:
Inferno Notes |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
I can see the theory behind it, but actual use will be sticky.
I think it would cause less problems if they just denied the use of station services (fitting, repair, clone, market, etc.). |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Just to be clear, if you stay out of the FW system you can travel/trade/dock/manufacture in any system regardless of who is currently holding sov there? (Assuming your natural faction standings are high enough for them to not shoot at you).
That seems to be what they are saying.
Its pure lunacy. Though it will encourge more neutral alts. That is not a good thing.
I like the general idea. Just sounds like it might need tweaking.
Unlike player owned corps in 0.0, "griefer" corps can join FW without any player ability to prevent it. They can play with the LP and plexes to the detriment of the rest of that FW faction. It would be different if we could control who our "allies" are, but we simply cant with the FW mechanic. Locking us out of our ships/stations seems a harsh penalty under those circumstances. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 14:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ok - 40 hours changes everything. That is going to make a big difference. Sounds promising.
I wish I had time to load and play on the test server. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 14:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quoting Sync Vir:
Quote:Datacores are 1000LP + 1m isk for 5
Amarr LP Store has
Amarrian Starship Engineering, Graviton Physics, Lazor Phyics, Nanite Engineering, High Energy Phyics
Also I got 25K lp from a Major solo. Ihub grade status unknown but likely empty.
125K LP + 125m = 625 Datacores.
High Energy Phyics = 298k each x 625 = 186.215m - 125 = 61m profit Nanite Engineering = 334k each x 625 = 208.75 = 125 = 83m profit. Amarrian Starship Engineering = 299k x 625 = 186.8 =125 = 61.8m Profit Lazor Phyics = 224k x 625 = 140m - 125 = 15m Profit Graviton Physics = 198k x 625 = 123 - 125 = -1.25m loss.
Not sure thats a super good return for your LP. So either no ones gonna use it or Datacores are about to become alot more expensive. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
It also seems faction ships now cost MORE LP. So although the rewards go up, so do the costs.
It seems to need tweaking right now though. A geddon navy issue costs more than an Mac apparantly. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Good discussion, keep it coming. As CCP Soundwave stated we are actually locked in to continue working on FW after Inferno, so we will be monitoring the short term effects and have some long term plans that we didn't get time to do.
FYI - CCP says they are reading this thread. Lets try to keep it constructive. ;) |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
And for what it is worth - the main issue I see that is kind of at the root of everyone's complaints:
Whatever changes are made, the best (or even a good) counter should NOT be a meta-game solution. e.g. Neutral alts to get around the station lockout, using mostly unskilled alts to run missions and LP flood IHUBS, or using alt corps to grief the other side (especially that unlike 0.0 corps, we cant control who our "allies" are because anyone can join FacWar).
Regardless, I like the sound of most of the changes. I just hope that they are tweaked properly to avoid the issues described above. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 21:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Hrett wrote:And for what it is worth - the main issue I see that is kind of at the root of everyone's complaints:
Whatever changes are made, the best (or even a good) counter should NOT be a meta-game solution. e.g. Neutral alts to get around the station lockout, using mostly unskilled alts to run missions and LP flood IHUBS, or using alt corps to grief the other side (especially that unlike 0.0 corps, we cant control who our "allies" are because anyone can join FacWar).
Regardless, I like the sound of most of the changes. I just hope that they are tweaked properly to avoid the issues described above. but hasn't that always been an issue? After 6-8 months people just stopped using militia chat due to spys being so easy to get into there. We had to use outside security channels. I mean this is eve, you can't stop the meta game, can you? There is no way to tell who is your ally, so FW became a mess. well it was a lot of reasons but I believe that was the biggest drive behind the death of the more open social part of FW. Now everyone is in some corp no one else can join, and the different corps all work alone. this was not the goal on release, it's just how FW is played now because of bad design.
And allowing alliances has resolved much of that issue.
Yes the meta-game in EVE is always an option. No suprise there. It should not be the hands-down best option though.
Anyway - someone from SiSi just said you have to capture numerous systems in a group before they all lock you out. Is that true? Can someone clarify? |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 02:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Marcus Foederatus wrote:You guys need to man up..... Adapt or die. CCP devs should man up. Put in 'ze cynojammers!
This. The one thing that would be most helpful if you count things like sov, and its left out? |
|
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 06:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Superchair - the EDIT button and the ENTER key. Use them! :) |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 06:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am no PI expert, but wouldnt it be nice if PI output or POCOs in those systems were upgraded in some way? |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 03:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Like everyone else, I am just spitballing here, but after reading most of the thread, these are my thoughts (which are subject to change on whim or sobriety):
1. I still think sov capping should only lockout station services and agents, but not docking rights. Again, we militia folk cannot control who our 'allies' are, and there are too many chances for griefing by alt-corps. That is the huge difference between us and 0.0, and the difference in docking rights is justified.
2. LP for plexing: I don't think the current SiSi setup is right. It just encourages mostly unskilled alts in unfit Atrons or Condors to go to backwater systems and run buttons. It doesn't encourage actual furtherance of the war effort. FW would be flooded with even more useless plexing alts. Instead, I think both attackers AND defenders should get LP, but ONLY when the system is contested. That will create real conflict systems and 'fronts' where battles will take place. It should be possible, as this is similar to how faction rep is awarded to defenders. People can still earn LP from missions and killing.
3. On the system upgrades, I think PI should benefit in some way for POCO owners and/or PI operators. And as mentioned numerous times before, cyno jammers should be allowed. If they aren't, any sovereignty claims are purely illusory and subject to the whim of 0.0 supercap power blocks. (and again, spitballing here, but how about jump bridges? May be a bad idea...)
4. As fond as I am of the idea of a reset - I don't think it should happen. This would penalize everyone, but especially smaller corps and individuals who have ships spread everywhere. And I think X Gall suggestion about dialing the time to cap back from 5x to 3 or 4x current might be needed.
Regardless, I am glad for the tweaks, and glad that Hans and CCP are on the issue. Even if you dont agree with everything (and I don't) at least be happy they are trying.
Just my opinion. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:chatgris wrote:X Gallentius wrote:The "no LP for defensive plexing" appears to be a really good idea to me since it automatically limits the amount of farmers cleaning up the mess the attackers have made. What is the real incentive for defensive plexing? System defense (especially your home system) and pew. Attack is what drives conflict, and therefore its the attackers that should get the majority of the rewards. I disagree Now, when you chase someone out of a plex they are running, you get no reward (except to fight off the stick of losing docking access to the system you are fighting over, which you may or may not care about for that particular system). What incentive now is there to defend plexes in hikko, immuri, pyne, kedama, hirri etc? IMO, no LP for defense is completely borked. I will probably make 9 alts like certain gallente players and have them run defensives all day in stabbed condors if LP is rewarded for defensive plexing. I think the whole LP for offensive plexing is nice, and you defend systems to gaurd your assets and lower the LP cost of your items in the LP store.
Good point. This is a problem with offensive too. Perhaps no LP for either until a system is contested, but full LP for offensive and half for defensive once it is contested... |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 18:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sui'Djin wrote:1. Glad you are watching this thread closely Hans, and post in your calm manner. Fortunately this thread is much less emotional than the testserver feedback thread, which I greatly appreciate. Continue your awesome work!
2. Maybe CCP should try a different approach concerning the station lockout and take smaller steps in this respect. There was consensus in other threads that station service denial would be preferable to a complete station lockout. And if a lockout should be needed, then this should only affect militia stations, not neutral ones.
3. Even if station lockout should be implemented (which I am definitevely opposed to), this will not break FW. There are so many workarounds (alts, Black Frog Service, POS's etc.) that it would be a nuisance, nothing more. Besides that I will at least give it a try.
4. Concerning plexing and LP stuff it looks like good advice for everybody to wait for the DevBlog that is announced for this week, and not speculate their ass off, this leads nowhere.
The fact that there are such simple workarounds is exactly why they should not do full station lockouts. It's purely illusory and easily avoided using the meta game. That makes it a silly, unnecessary, change.
The only reason one would do such a thing is if someone actually wants to ENCOURAGE the use of neutral alts. And the only reason I can think someone would want to do that is something I really don't want to contemplate.
Lock out station services and agents. That can't be exploited around (as easily).
Regardless, I am keeping an open mind and will wait for the devblog. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 06:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Amarrian Slavetrader wrote:I'm confused as to why people think it'll make such a big difference. Years ago the public amarr fleets staged out of Tuomuta (in highsec). Nothing here will stop anyone from basing out of highsec and that's a worst case scenario.... By 'years ago' I take it you mean the first 6 months of the war or so because that was the extent of it. Considering that most of us were "scared" of the big bad low-sec when we joined the duration was surprisingly short. Being able to base out of high-sec is a great option especially for new-comers, but creating a system where it becomes the only option in case of a side being outblobbed for a shortish period of time .. My Wishful Thinking for summer: - Supers lose their immunity when away from null. - Titans lose ability to bridge to a location not in null. - Links are on-grid. - Most if not all sec. gain is moved to low-sec. - FW stations lockout enemy until enemy gains a foothold (ie. 10-15% VP) with services becoming available as system goes deeper and deeper into a contested state. - Defensive plexing is removed or made so fast as to be non-existent (biggest damn waste of time and counter intuitive thing around!). - NPC's are tweaked so that all sides have approximately same level of difficulty dealing with them. - NPC's do not interfere when not 'needed' (probably stupidly hard to code without opening door to exploitation). - Bunker grinds are replaced with live EHP akin to Incursion end 'boss'. - Pirate hulls are classified as 'one size up' in regards to plex access. - Missions get poison pills and elite frigs/cruisers included in target pool. - POS are modular and with security less like a circus tent. Off to work, toodles.
I dont agree with all of this (no defensive plexing? Why?) but the vast majority of these are long overdue. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 13:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Hrett wrote:I dont agree with all of this (no defensive plexing? Why?) but the vast majority of these are long overdue. Simply put, because it is/should be easier to bolt a door than to break it down .. crude analogy perhaps, but fairly accurate. Also based on assumption that people will act as they have done for years and not actually do much of anything unless critical mass is achieved. In plexing terms (after the 3-5x change is added) that means blobbing the crap out of a system for a few hours and then leaving an alt force/skeleton crew to prevent too much defensive work from succeeding .. almost exact replica of null sov "fights" back in the day (still get ticks thinking of all the damn pos mods I repped up *shudder*). The only way to discourage the urge to blob is to neuter its effectiveness .. with timers being 'equal' it is possible (and most often used) to have a single semi-mobile blob that comes in to swat anyone interfering with the timer babysitters. Were timers to be 'skewed' with defensive ones taking only 1/5th or less time, the attacked HAS to be 'in force' in each and every plex which removes the blob from the equation quite nicely I should think Attacking sovereign space should require constant pressure and vigil. It was semi-present at the height of the post-DT plexing era when several systems were held in enemy space .. take a plex anywhere and it could pop elsewhere, was a horror if occupancy was spread out all over the place . IbanezLaney wrote:Personally I'm looking forward to the changes.... Mission runners will only leave if they have no alternative to make the LP. If NPC balance/Plex mechanics are not addressed there is a high probability that most of them will swap bombers for stabbed interceptors and get LP from plexes instead. If you were around back when it occurred to people that raising militia rank/standing was a fast track to maxed faction standing and the free Navy BPCs it yielded .. goddamn stabbed mothers were all over the damn place
I dont agree on the defensive plexing thing - I see the kind of fights you describe now.
I do think they should give LP for defensive plexing once a system goes contested. Otherwise people will only fight for station systems... |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 18:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dirk Smacker wrote:Hrett wrote: I do think they should give LP for defensive plexing once a system goes contested. Otherwise people will only fight for station systems...
You just can't give LP to an afk condor. You just can't.
You can speed tank afk offensive plex too. Hence my suggestion of only giving it to both sides when contested.
|
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 20:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kade Jeekin wrote:Dirk Smacker wrote: Or they could make you clear the npc's in order to cap.
Why haven't they implemented this? It seems like an easy fix. There's plenty of missions where the spawn has to be cleared before either a gate is opened or a can is dropped.
Yep. I'd be perfectly happy with this. Do eeet CCP. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 21:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:chatgris wrote:BolsterBomb wrote: Recall the last 3 times you have told your corp "go stash a ship in X system, we are going to JC over or pod over and surprise those flipping ****** evil spiting frogs"
- Tech moon fight in Nisuwa a week ago - Deploying against eve university in Dudreda (we get there via shuttle/interceptor and switch to our stash of ships) - Plexing ships near Intaki (I have a frig and cruiser up there in case I swing by and find someone in a plex my drake can't get into) And our base in Nenna started as "stash ships in the warzone so we can reship faster without going all the way back to Villore". Nenna was chosen because it was a central location to a wide area of the warzone. Early on when the caldari used to try and dislodge us from our forward base in Nenna, we won many time because we were able to reship during the fight. Heck, I've even put ships in Tama and suj to do the same thing when the Caldari used to based in Nourv. Now, this is a tactic that people not affiliated with FW can use to their hearts content, but is restricted to those in fction warfare. This isnt the rule though its the exception. I dont disagree with the tactic I am just saying its the exception to the rule, most fights you're not going to warp of repair and come back. I dont disagree it has happend, Ive been in battles where it has happend and I see it happening more so in plex fights BUT I just dont see it as an every day game breaker.
It isnt the exception. I am relatively poor, yet without logging in, I can think of 6 systems in Black Rise where I have at least 3 ships in a station. Maybe more. And docking up and repairing mid fight then coming back happens all of the time.
It is dumb to lock out FW people but allow neutrals to dock. It makes no sense, and removes all real penalty. It just requires some time on your alt. It is an illusory "penalty" that just encourages neutral alts and it should not be allowed. IMHO. |
|
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
77
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 20:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yeah - the most important part is the warzone control it seems. Will make LP store prices 4x cheaper or more expensive than they currently are...
That is a pretty good carrot and stick.
I still don't agree with the neutral docking thing, but frankly I'm excited about the rest. I will keep an open mind. They obviously put a lot of work into this. If it sucks, they will change it.
And Neo - the caps lock button. Sheesh. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 01:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:chatgris wrote:On the flip side though, having significantly cheaper faction ships might increase demand, and ISK per LP might even increase (more likely with non-gallente boats unfortunately, but maybe one day CCP will fix gallente > frigs). Someday soon chatgris will put the 2300 m/s, 800 dps ENI in the "Gallente boats that are cool" category.
No. Chatgris has the mental disease of drakebrain. He cannot help himself. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 01:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Oh, and can someone please explain to me WTF a datacore is, and why they are important? It appears I should be buying some soon. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 13:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Here is an Inferno expansion idea that is worthwhile for FW: Please post your support. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 18:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yuri Intaki wrote:marketjacker wrote:M8 you're way out of line insulting a great guy who has passed and clearly need to be institutionalized. How am I insulting anyone? Please explain.
I didn't see what you posted, so I can't comment on it.
But if it was a polite disagreement, then I don't see why they should have deleted it UNLESS it was in poor taste.
Yes Damar, we get you don't like us. That is fine and I support you being able to say you don't like us. But there is some point where sometimes it is just better to say nothing at all if you have nothing good to say. This, IMHO, is one of those times. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.13 18:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Joanna Ramirez wrote:Hrett wrote:Yes Damar, we get you don't like us. That is fine and I support you being able to say you don't like us. But there is some point where sometimes it is just better to say nothing at all if you have nothing good to say. This, IMHO, is one of those times. I was actually going to answer this one in fairly neutral and polite manner but Yuri got banned from forums. I seem to be pretty good at this. It's ok. I have plenty of alts to post with. I mean, I post "no" to that other thread and it gets removed and Yuri is banned. Other guy says "Can I have his stuff" and while certainly bit inappropriate, is not removed. 5m isk says Joanna will be banned in less than an hour after posting this message.
Again, I don't know. Is Damar banned? Perhaps that is why Yuri was too? Perhaps you should just serve it out with all of your alts so it doesn't become final. Whatever people say about you, you are a good enemy to have in FW and do a lot for the Caldari. I would hate to see you permanent-banned. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
102
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 01:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:When the people cry out, I must answer their call.
Jones Bones; master of the seven seas, plunderer of the untouched virgins, decimator of the blobby hordes, drinker of the Jagermeister, rager of the comms, a will hard as kinda hard wood, the strength of 20 midgets; hereby offers his needed services to the pathetic apostates of the Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade.
My demands: - A throne room decorate in 80s fashion. - Slaves for pleasure and pain. - An unlimited supply of red grapes. Don't ask.
If any Amarr FW corp can meet these demands AND wants the greatest gift the gods ever gave their pathetic worshippers, contact me.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but I can tell it will be helpful to the Amarr.
As for the FW changes, I will give them a chance. We will see. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
116
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 13:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Andiedeath wrote:Just to add... Many of the people that have joined so far have ground their rep from -5.0 with the appropriate faction to +0.5 to get in... Hate to say it but there are plenty of peeps interested in these new changes. Doomsdayers just need to take a step back... Or Register for the Apocolypse Afterparty on facebook... One of the 2. :P
As Mike said, the future of the Militia's will be written by the old leaders that stick around and the new people that come... And there are plenty of those new players... Problem is that if you are right and the militias all get a massive surge of active pilots due to the new farm-friendly mechanics then the FW we have bled for and moaned about the past 3 years ceases to exist .. hell it will do so even without a surge due to the farms necessitating blobs to keep them pristine. We are already close to having zero solo/small-gang fights these days .. in the years after it kicked off, majority of fights was <10 man per side with big romps on weekends only (almost) .. add your hundreds on all sides and no fight will be with less than 50 per side, lockouts take care of that as offense will always aim for superiority from the start due to not being able to reship. I seriously miss the days when I could take a Punisher or Nomen out and fight 1-3 people in contests of skill and determination over the right to irrelevant VP .. "GF"'s were abundant then. Now you need to check Titan's for people waiting to drop you, keep a looooong list of all the enemy neutral boosters/scouts and then hope to find an enemy that doesn't outnumber you 4:1. What I and most others have lobbied for since 2010 (current trend started back then) is mechanics that encouraged staying small and challenged the individual on an hourly/daily basis .. problem of course is that CCP didn't read anything FW related until last December onwards and at that point in time all people could talk about was how poor they were (FW LP devalued in preceeding year) and wouldn't it be great if there was pay involved and some effect of taking space .. FW truly held promise beyond anything CCP has released since I started playing; Small scale fighting, ideal RP/PF/Lore platform .. purpose. What it is about to become is a blobby farm fest with almost no redeeming features .. even the once :awesome: size restriction on plexes has been killed of by the new pirate/navy hulls and T3 boosters. R.I.P Factional Warfare. Thank you for teaching me which is the pointy end. PS: How is that for Doom Calling? Do I win something!!!!
They actually did a good thing with the Crucible plex changes. It increased small gang a lot. I think they need to tweak capture times down to 3x current, but we will see. |
|
|
|