EVE Search - Learning skills: they make EVE very boring for new players!

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Test Server Feedback

Learning skills: they make EVE very boring for new players!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Photon Ceray	Posted - 2009.04.04 14:50:00 - [1] Hi, I can write this topic after failing to convince 5 of my friends and my brother to join eve with me, one of the main reasons was Learning skills. I understand that they are an interesting feature of this game and it's been here for a long time, I am not suggesting to remove it but I strongly believe it needs fixing. When new players join the game they start in a noob ship with barely frig skills, they cannot upgrade ships and mods within a short time (3-8 days), although they can get in a cruiser after a few days, they cannot really progress beyond that because they start the boring learning skills cycle which takes anything from 20-40 days this time is enough to bore someone to death with the game. It is true that they can stop at lvl III and get something new, but during their first 2-3 weeks they want to experiment with new things, new ships, new modules, new possibilities, and spending 2 days waiting for a learning skill to get to level IV is NOT FUN! it is BORING!. Old players know that starting with proper learning skill is very important, and they will tell this to all the new players, but I just hate it when my friends say: "this game is not for me, I don't want to wait a whole month untill I can get skills a bit faster, then another month to use what I wanted to use in the first month" or "why should I train something in 6 hours, or I can train it in 5 hours if I wait 2 weeks?" for me and other players this is friends not joining us in a game we like, but for you CCP, this is money! Pleas consider this issue and address it in a proper manner.
Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.	Posted - 2009.04.04 15:23:00 - [2] So don't train the learning skills right away. Train the first set to level 3 then spend some time on useful skills before you finish them off. They're important skills yes but too many people waste training time on them too early in the game.
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.04 15:40:00 - [3] with 100% bonus you can make learnings 4/4 in 5 days? 60D GTC - shattared link
maranne marachian	Posted - 2009.04.04 15:40:00 - [4] thing is thanks to 2x learning rate its now learning speed suicide not to train to 4/4 during thost 2x as that allows you to lower the time wasted later on learning them.
Zackaryel Caldari Echolalia. Shangri-La.	Posted - 2009.04.04 17:08:00 - [5] Edited by: Zackaryel on 04/04/2009 17:11:35 I started this brand new character on Feb 18th. I'm doing basic learning to V ( charisma IV ) and advanced to IV ( charisma III ). On top of this I added Cybernetics V that I finished some days ago and now I've got a +5 set plugged in. So trust me, I know everything you want to know about absolute boredom. The upside being : - When I'm done with those ( 13d left, ish ) I don't have to get back to it anytime again. - Having done those now means I'll get the biggest benefit from having high attributes ( 25 Int/Perc, 24 Mem/Will, 18 Cha w/+5's ). Downside : - Extremely boring. You'd better find yourself something else to do while you skill that up. All this to say, it's a personal choice to do it that way. I started my first character about 4 years ago and now I know how the attributes works, and what's the best choice to make for the skill plan I built up. It's up to everyone to choose what's best for them. No one forces you to learn them. But you know that if you don't, you'll lose big time. You should remind your friends that nothing in EVE is immediate reward. Everything you can earn in EVE is directly related to how much time you invest in that particular field. ---------- http://www.youtube.com/user/Zackaryel
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.04.04 17:18:00 - [6] OP is right and you can't just tell a new player "don't train the learning skills then", some might listen but most won't as it's going to be a minority opinion. And new players really have no idea how the game plays out and they will tend to follow guides and advice of players in the newb chat (they all give the more or less "correct" advice that training learning skills first is the most efficient way to train). First few days are extremely important for new player retention. They just don't realize how boring learning skills are until it's too late. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.	Posted - 2009.04.04 18:12:00 - [7] Originally by: maranne marachian thing is thanks to 2x learning rate its now learning speed suicide not to train to 4/4 during thost 2x as that allows you to lower the time wasted later on learning them. Yeah but you're still wasting a chunk of your 2x learning time on something that gives you absolutely nothing in terms of gameplay. As a newb I'd much rather use that time to train battlecruisers and the important support skills and leave the rank 1 learning skills for later. They're a long term investment, best avoided until you've at least gotten comfortable in whatever profession you've chosen.
Puk Jinn Tempestas Oriens Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.04.04 18:20:00 - [8] Edited by: Puk Jinn on 04/04/2009 18:20:36 nobody forces anybody to do anything. so, ranting about learning skills right after they introduced the "faster start learning bonus" is a bit to trollish in my opinion. you don¦t like it -> you don¦t have to it¦s not that big deal to start a noob not so learning oriented and train stuff you prefer ... as long as you end up with ~1,6-2mio points in learning after the first year you¦re on the good side. cheers
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.04.04 18:46:00 - [9] Ok, I'm going to be frank, if they quit due to Learning skills, then they will not like the game PERIOD. This game is about patience, not where you get everything handed on a silver platter. --Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart
Photon Ceray	Posted - 2009.04.04 19:33:00 - [10] guys, you don't have to convince me that, I am already playing this game for a year and a half, it's the new players that you have to convince : spend a whole month waiting for stuff to finish before you start advancing anything in the game. it doesn't matter if it is in the first day or the first 2 months, they will have to wait for it to finish, this is BORING for new players, I already couldn't convince 6 including my brother who played every other game I did except eve.

Puk Jinn Tempestas Oriens Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.04.04 20:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Photon Ceray guys, you don't have to convince me that, I am already playing this game for a year and a half, it's the new players that you have to convince : spend a whole month waiting for stuff to finish before you start advancing anything in the game. honest, i¦m not really sad about the fact that eve has some hurdles to sort the "instant action" people out .. tough it¦s not that big deal with learning. If somebody is so dependent that he ruins his fun by the fact that there is a more efficient way, then cheers
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.04.05 00:16:00 - [12] the real issue here is if you DONT train your learning skills during the double rate you get **ed over. because it will take as long to train, each level of learning will give half the benefit, and implants give half the benefit. So, if you don't know what to train, and don't train your learning skills you will in the future spend a whole 50 days training learning skills instead of 9 days. that's **ed up.
Mistral Sud Minmatar Black Box Corp.	Posted - 2009.04.05 00:27:00 - [13] Edited by: Mistral Sud on 05/04/2009 00:28:35 Edited by: Mistral Sud on 05/04/2009 00:27:41 yeah his right ! remove all low learning skills! give every caracter +4 ! strip lvl 5 from low learning for all so max is -1! problem solved old characters could learn 5 years with one more point, u still have high learning skills wich can be done after getting in game, and this silly come in game and train first learn skills, is gone!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.04.05 01:50:00 - [14] I think the fact that there is difference of opinion on the importance of training learning skills early on, and that people choose to either do so or not for a variety of different reasons, shows that the learning skills are working as intended. Yes, if your friends minmax, they are going to get sick of the game. I have found that this applies to every aspect of the game - play for fun, not because it is some kind of job, otherwise you will see it as one. I think it is good that the NPE integrates this lesson early on, no? - DesuSigs
Major Stallion The Dark Horses W A S T E L A N D	Posted - 2009.04.05 02:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Xelios So don't train the learning skills right away. Train the first set to level 3 then spend some time on useful skills before you finish them off. They're important skills yes but too many people waste training time on them too early in the game. if you dont train your learning skills first, you may as well not even bother...
Treelox Amarr Seppuku Warriors	Posted - 2009.04.05 03:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Crumplecorn Yes, if your friends minmax, they are going to get sick of the game. I have found that this applies to every aspect of the game - play for fun, not because it is some kind of job, otherwise you will see it as one. I think it is good that the NPE integrates this lesson early on, no? I agree with the above quoted statement 100%. Eve is not for everybody, weeding those that are not sutible to eve right from the get go, makes a lot of sense. --
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.04.05 03:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Crumplecorn I think the fact that there is difference of opinion on the importance of training learning skills early on, and that people choose to either do so or not for a variety of different reasons, shows that the learning skills are working as intended. Yes, if your friends minmax, they are going to get sick of the game. I have found that this applies to every aspect of the game - play for fun, not because it is some kind of job, otherwise you will see it as one. I think it is good that the NPE integrates this lesson early on, no? I have some facts for you before you say your opinion again. during double trsining rate +5 implants give 10 points instead of 5. learning gives a 20% increase instead of 10% each level of the learning skills gives you 2 points instead of 1. but all of this is ONLY during the double training rate. I'm not going to state my point, you'll have to figure it out for yourself. but I'm agreeing with your post completely at the same time. Some people want to train for the max pay off in the future some want to do that stuff later on. edit:nvm I'll point it out, before it would take 50 days of training to get learning skills to 4/4 If a player trained this when he started he would have more sp overall but it would take a while to catch up to a player who learned them later as far as effective sp goes. So you could ether spend 50 days when you start for longer term payoff, or do it down the road for big skills. During this time, it used to take a whole YEAR for learning skills at 4/4 to pay off. now the new system is COMPLETELY different. if a player wants to train them later on, it still takes him a year for the learning skills to pay off in effective sp. it takes him 50 days to train and all is right in the world. this would be WITH +5 implants. Now if a player goes with, lets train them early instead of late, it will take 3 months for 4/4 learning skills to pay off. yes, it will only take 3 months instead of a whole year. also it will only take 9 days to train learning skills to 4/4 If you don't see why after all of that I had to write, why this new system gimps the players that choose to wait, then I'm done with trying to get anyone to agree with me on this issue :( yes before you were "gimped" on sp if you trained alter instead of early. but nthat was the pay off. you had A.train for 50 days now and get long term payoff B.train for 50 days down the road or over time and get long term payoff but slower. now it's A.train for 9 days and get short and long term payoff B.train for 50 days and get long term payoff ONLY. grrr stupid learning skills bull****
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.04.05 03:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Zackaryel - Having done those now means I'll get the biggest benefit from having high attributes ( 25 Int/Perc, 24 Mem/Will, 18 Cha w/+5's ). lies your totaly attibute points untill the double rate is over will be... 60 int/prec 58 mem/will 46 cha remember this well.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.04.05 03:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Ok, I'm going to be frank, if they quit due to Learning skills, then they will not like the game PERIOD. This game is about patience, not where you get everything handed on a silver platter. --Isaac this if they don't like the idea of long investment to build up a character then this isn't the game for them. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2009.04.05 04:31:00 - [20] i agree eve-online is a very boring game for noobs the can not only one thing right and have to skill the borenessreducers at first

Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.04.05 04:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Treelox Eve is not for everybody, weeding those that are not sutible to eve right from the get go, makes a lot of sense. Originally by: Typhado3 this if they don't like the idea of long investment to build up a character then this isn't the game for them. These kinds of statements are shortsighted and ignorant, at best. A new player can't be expected to adapt to the long-term EVE lifestyle within the first few days of playing. And just because someone doesn't know what's best for them to do at the start doesn't mean they won't enjoy the game in the long run. The fact of the matter is that learning skills do not provide a good experience for new players yet are forced on them as the best course of action. Of course they don't have to do them, but they don't know any better and will likely do them anyway, resulting in a poor first impression of the game of no character advancement and boredom. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.04.05 04:36:00 - [22] They can train up to BS in a reasonable amount of time. Even simple T2 ships won't be in their grasp within the first month, assuming you could ignore learning skills. The fact that most people train learning skills at the start is doing them a favour, because they don't have anything to gain by flying T2 so early. Besides, to a newbie, what is so great about T2 ships? Every ship is brand spanking new.
Photon Ceray	Posted - 2009.04.05 11:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Wet Ferret The fact of the matter is that learning skills do not provide a good experience for new players yet are forced on them as the best course of action. Of course they don't have to do them, but they don't know any better and will likely do them anyway, resulting in a poor first impression of the game of no character advancement and boredom. Ironically, Apocrypha only amplified this problem by removing career paths that started characters out with at least a handful of useful skills. that's exactly my point. let me put it in bold: learning skills resulting in a poor first impression of the game of no character advancement and boredom
Tykkis	Posted - 2009.04.05 11:51:00 - [24] beginners have no clue. let them not train learnings in the begining and they are happy and play further. Tell them about the learning skills and they are unhappy and may quit.
xarjin	Posted - 2009.04.05 12:30:00 - [25] Edited by: xarjin on 05/04/2009 12:32:09 I'm very curious if ccp ever thought that the reason eve's average clients online are below 30,000 people over a week might just be for these reasons alone :) Problem: People do not have the willingness to be completely bored to tears awaiting for endless skill training that is supposed to reflect the amount of time needed to study something in real life. Spending days or weeks to train one skill is not rewarding for the average video gamer. Every person I know i've discussed eve with claimed to "have had an account but quit the game" as a result of disliking the amount of time needed to train character skills. Solution: Triple or quadruple the base sp per hour and watch new clients roll in.
Female Miner	Posted - 2009.04.05 12:55:00 - [26] Originally by: MotherMoon +5 implants while +5s are expensive, and need cybernetics V, there's some interesting things. 4/4 learning and +5 implants takes you to 1.72M sp, so you'd use up the 100% bonus just doing that. But then you're in a much better position to train the more useful skills. This means that making 2nd account chars is a lot quicker to make them useful. It helps 2nd account chars more than it does new players.
Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.	Posted - 2009.04.05 16:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Major Stallion Originally by: Xelios So don't train the learning skills right away. Train the first set to level 3 then spend some time on useful skills before you finish them off. They're important skills yes but too many people waste training time on them too early in the game. if you dont train your learning skills first, you may as well not even bother... That's just wrong. Learning skills only start to pay off over a period of months. None of us had the 2x training time and we all trained our learning skills normally, there's no reason to waste your 2x time on them. Not when you have so many other more important skills to train as a newb. Skills that make the difference between sitting in a station or getting decent isk from level 2/3 missions (or whatever you decide to do).
Tykkis	Posted - 2009.04.05 17:44:00 - [28] Players have been complaining about the learning skills for ages. Either CCP has really good reason they don't wanna remove them, they can't or just don't care and see the feature as unique(it is as far as i know) and very good. Learning skills only have negative effects
KalEl Trask	Posted - 2009.04.11 16:56:00 - [29] I agree the learning skills should be gone or set to max for new players. It is boring and puts a bad light on the game for new players. Also a note, I have three characters all with 5/5 and 2 with 5/4 for the learning skills already. So this change will not impact me at all as I'm sure not paying for another account! I just think this would be good for new players and hopefully bring in more people to the game.
Mac The'Knife Black'Tooth'Grin	Posted - 2009.04.11 17:52:00 - [30] I do believe CCP should just drop the learning skills completely, and raise the overall attributes. Any further attribute increases should just be handled by implants. As mentioned now, no matter how you slice it, your gimping yourself by not training your learning skills first, especially with the double speed. Sure you do not need train your learning skills right away to enjoy the game, but as time goes on and you learn more about eve, and realize how much further ahead you could have been if you trained them from the get go... I dunno, I have been an on again off again player since 2005, and every time I make a new character I hate those initial weeks. Its not even as though I feel I can not do anything, you do not need SP to have fun. Its the fact that you do not feel a sense of progress while your character trains those bloody learnings.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.