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T3 may be more popular than previously thought

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Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.05 02:53:00 - [1] Just spotted a Tengu pilot in a 3/10 DED complex in Airmia. And here I was thinking nobody would undock in the silly, overpriced things... Unfortunately my cruiser gang wasn't numerous enough to try and suicide it. Still, I'd be shocked if that thing lasts a month.
UMEE Tactical Initiative Dark Cadre	Posted - 2009.04.05 03:01:00 - [2] i think they're milking T3 for the PVE. once everyone is in wormholes, they'll drop to HAC price. if not, maybe a 100 people will own one to do L3's in and parade in high sec.
Cyhawk	Posted - 2009.04.05 05:59:00 - [3] I've seen a few as well, If i had one, I'd undock it and actively PvP in it =) And.. a T3 should be able to easily do L4 missions, especially the Proteus.
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.04.05 06:06:00 - [4] If Titans were allowed in highsec, you'd see them in every system. Any idiot can feel brave in a pricy ship when CONCORD's got his back.
Pilot Abilene Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.04.05 07:56:00 - [5] I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly...atleast in the immediate future anyway. Will be a very long time before they are a common sight on the battlefield like we were lead to believe.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.05 08:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Pilot Abilene I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly... Every once in a while we get cheap stuff like eas and sometimes we get something to dream about t3. Gotta have both or else people will get bored.
Hariya	Posted - 2009.04.05 11:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Pilot Abilene I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly...atleast in the immediate future anyway. Will be a very long time before they are a common sight on the battlefield like we were lead to believe. It was meant as "end-game" stuff, for the most advanced players around. Not you and me.
Dracoknight	Posted - 2009.04.05 11:35:00 - [8] T2 and Faction was the same back in the days when they got released... Rawr!
Serpents smile	Posted - 2009.04.05 11:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Hariya Originally by: Pilot Abilene I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly...atleast in the immediate future anyway. Will be a very long time before they are a common sight on the battlefield like we were lead to believe. It was meant as "end-game" stuff, for the most advanced players around. Not you and me. But... but... I desperately whole heartily want one!
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.05 11:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Hariya It was meant as "end-game" stuff, for the most advanced players around. Not you and me. Says who? With the kind of prices they were talking about, the devs apparently intended them to be on the same level as faction stuff. The fact that they couldn't figure out the economics of it is a different matter. Furthermore, if they spend that much time and effort developing stuff that would be of no wide-spread use, their priorities are downright idiotic. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Hariya	Posted - 2009.04.05 11:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Hariya It was meant as "end-game" stuff, for the most advanced players around. Not you and me. Says who? With the kind of prices they were talking about, the devs apparently intended them to be on the same level as faction stuff. The fact that they couldn't figure out the economics of it is a different matter. Furthermore, if they spend that much time and effort developing stuff that would be of no wide-spread use, their priorities are downright idiotic. Not really. You can even as relatively newbie go with a fleet and have fun in wormhole space, acquiring parts for those ships. Then you can put 1.5B+ fat on it and sell it to some older player who has serious amounts of money.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.05 12:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Hariya Not really. You can even as relatively newbie go with a fleet and have fun in wormhole space, acquiring parts for those ships. Then you can put 1.5B+ fat on it and sell it to some older player who has serious amounts of money. …which, again, means it's not "end-game" stuff. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Morberi	Posted - 2009.04.05 13:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Hariya It was meant as "end-game" stuff, for the most advanced players around. Not you and me. Says who? With the kind of prices they were talking about, the devs apparently intended them to be on the same level as faction stuff. The fact that they couldn't figure out the economics of it is a different matter. Furthermore, if they spend that much time and effort developing stuff that would be of no wide-spread use, their priorities are downright idiotic. I wouldn't expect the markets to actually go down to a stable price for months, maybe even a year. It's not surprising that only a few weeks in the prices are still outragous. Hell this is like expecting to have a high end raid instance on farm (not WoW's latest cruise control expansion) a week in, it'll take months for people to smooth out their operations and start massively pumping out these things.
Raekek Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.05 15:23:00 - [14] Edited by: Raekek on 05/04/2009 15:24:10 Are the tungus' components really that expensive? Or are sellers just milking their scarcity? The thing costs more then a dreadnought right now in jita (dreadnoughts arguably require more skills to fly properly). I think I'd rather have a dreadnought..
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.05 15:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Raekek Are the tungus' components really that expensive? Or are sellers just milking their scarcity? The thing costs more then a dreadnought right now in jita (dreadnoughts arguably require more skills to fly properly). I think I'd rather have a dreadnought.. The problem is, in part, that the workflow for making them isn't fully optimised yet. The larger issue, however, is that the basic materials requirements (BPCs, fullerenes, ancient salvage) takes a crapton of time and manpower to collect and that all of it requires active participation and thus cannot be parallelised in the same way as other resource gathering processes. This means that the resource gathering itself needs to pay back — timewise — on a level that is competetive with other active pursuits such as mission running or ratting. In other words, if you need to spend 10 man-hours to gather resources for some particular component, that component will cost at least 3-400mil, no matter what's actually in it, and then go up from there depending on the amount of refining, invention, reacting etc. that goes into creating the final pieces. If it costs any less, those gatherers will go off and do other things that give them better pay-back for the time they spend. There's certainly some milking going on on top of this, but the main issue that makes people worried is that the only way T3 will reach the dev's stated target of affordability is if the producers all succumb to the "stuff I mine myself is free" mode of thinking. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Renarla	Posted - 2009.04.05 15:43:00 - [16] It will take a few months for prices to stabilize. Once they do, they should cost a little bit more than HACs. For now, they're still extremely rare and difficult to build, hence the high prices. BECAUSE OF FALCON!
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.04.05 16:04:00 - [17] Edited by: Slave 2739FKZ on 05/04/2009 16:05:28 Originally by: Tippia There's certainly some milking going on on top of this, but the main issue that makes people worried is that the only way T3 will reach the dev's stated target of affordability is if the producers all succumb to the "stuff I mine myself is free" mode of thinking. This, and CCP yet FAILS again to understand their own game economy. Let's see how long until they change something so the target prices are archieved. CCP has clearlly stated that T3 is mean to be popular as T2, same pricetag, but different scope. By no means it's "end game" stuff or is only for "filthy rich" people. I guess some of the first things they will do is increase number and spawn rate of archaelogy/hacking sites which give the bpc and LADAR sites for rare gases. The problem with this is, if they make neccessary stuff spawn at low end WH (1-3) who will care about doing difficult ones (specially 5-6) which take a full fleet and are much dangerous?
jst tstng	Posted - 2009.04.05 16:08:00 - [18] Everybody and everyone are farming Sleepers. Early adopters pay way too much because of being too rich and the feeling of being elite by way of flying something everybody will fly in a couple of months. The market will fill. Prices will go down. Almost looks like the real economy.
ShadowMaiden Amarr Divine Radiance	Posted - 2009.04.05 17:29:00 - [19] The EvE online market - a game mechanic, not real economics
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.04.05 18:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Hariya Originally by: Pilot Abilene I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly...atleast in the immediate future anyway. Will be a very long time before they are a common sight on the battlefield like we were lead to believe. It was meant as "end-game" stuff, for the most advanced players around. Not you and me. Lol absolutely wrong. The skill requirement to get into a T3 ship is LOWER than a HAC. Kthxbai. I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
CrestoftheStars Caldari Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2009.04.05 18:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Pilot Abilene I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly...atleast in the immediate future anyway. Will be a very long time before they are a common sight on the battlefield like we were lead to believe. i just don't see what role these new ships is filling out ? and why cruiser sized as the first t3 ? shouldn't we get frig class sized first? besides, there is no effective counter to hacs already, like we REALLY need more cruiser pwnage?. you can't find a ship that can effectively take care of a t2 cruiser, you can do this with any other class of ships, bc's < bs's, frigs<cruisers+bc's+bs's (actually most things will kill of a frigate even the t2's. t2 frigs<most cruisers+t2cruisers+everything actually. t2 cruisers>bc's bs's frigs, everything actually.. t2 cruisers just seems to be the "i win" these days, the worst thing for a cruiser in a 1v1 will be to have to warp off, they are impossible to kill 1v1 with anything but another cruiser sized ship (frigs will be slaughtered and anything else can't catch them, and they can kill almost any bs or bc, just a matter of time). the t3 frigs would have been a nice add to kill of t2 cruisers but too weak to take out bs's. or set in some other t2 ship that could kill of hacs effectively. :) but well i guess they want every one to fly cruisrs :P (kind of annoying actually i don't like cruisers that much. the t3 cruisers will be impossible to kill in anything else then a big gang vs only that one ship or another t3 cruiser.. that's just stupid :( ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Dracthera Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.05 18:35:00 - [22] Originally by: CrestoftheStars Originally by: Pilot Abilene I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly...atleast in the immediate future anyway. Will be a very long time before they are a common sight on the battlefield like we were lead to believe. i just don't see what role these new ships is filling out ? Frankly that's my issue with T3 ships right now as well. I can afford one, but not sure why I'd buy one. I'm willing to accept that fact that taking a cruiser class as the first T3 attempt was CCP's way of trying to make the T3 technology available to as many people as possible so they can play around with it and see what they can use it for. Releasing a T3 version of a bigger class ship would have been really, really expensive, and definitely meant for the super-rich as hangar queens. A smaller T3 ship class would have been nearly useless to anyone. So I'll wait until they release other T3 ship classes to see if it's worth it to me to invest in one. I'm guessing at the end of the day the answer will still be 'No'. Apto Quod Ususfructus
Lt Angus Caldari End Game. Dead End.	Posted - 2009.04.05 19:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Lt Angus on 05/04/2009 19:46:57 ccp should just bite the bullet and cut the amounts needed on bpc's by 3/4 and quadruple ability to make the bpc's. Demand for these will be huge I think everyone that can fly one wants one if the price is right and that price is in the region of 200-400mill I think the limited supply and amount of rich people alone will keep the price way above 500mill indefinitely please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.05 20:06:00 - [24] you guys are taking the wrong approach to this: if you want to fly T3, but can't afford it, YOU suck and YOU fail. not ccp, you. have a nice day. --
Herzoga	Posted - 2009.04.05 20:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Lt Angus Edited by: Lt Angus on 05/04/2009 19:46:57 ccp should just bite the bullet and cut the amounts needed on bpc's by 3/4 and quadruple ability to make the bpc's. Demand for these will be huge I think everyone that can fly one wants one if the price is right and that price is in the region of 200-400mill I think the limited supply and amount of rich people alone will keep the price way above 500mill indefinitely If rich people keep buying T3 cruisers for crazy money, then more people will start gathering T3 materials and building T3 cruisers to get a slice of that money, the limited supply won't stay limited for long. Basing material changes off the current situation whilst early adopters are paying through the nose for T3 cruisers and people are still getting the hang of farming wormholes would be foolish.
Hixxy Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.04.05 20:56:00 - [26] lol
Insa Rexion Minmatar United Forces Academy	Posted - 2009.04.05 21:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Tippia The problem is, in part, that the workflow for making them isn't fully optimised yet. The larger issue, however, is that the basic materials requirements (BPCs, fullerenes, ancient salvage) takes a crapton of time and manpower to collect and that all of it requires active participation and thus cannot be parallelised in the same way as other resource gathering processes. This means that the resource gathering itself* needs to pay back ù timewise ù on a level that is competetive with other active pursuits such as mission running or ratting.* In other words, if you need to spend 10 man-hours to gather resources for some particular component, that component will cost at least 3-400mil, no matter what's actually in it, and then go up from there depending on the amount of refining, invention, reacting etc. that goes into creating the final pieces. If it costs any less, those gatherers will go off and do other things that give them better pay-back for the time they spend. There's certainly some milking going on on top of this, but the main issue that makes people worried is that the only way T3 will reach the dev's stated target of affordability is if the producers all succumb to the "stuff I mine myself is free" mode of thinking. More weight to the argument that mission running is stupidly overpaid well mannered ah*
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.06 03:03:00 - [28] Why would someone use a t3 cruiser for pve over a command ship (except for bragging rights and the feeling of flying something special)? The damage/tanking of a commmand ship is better than of a t3 ship, by far. And it's much cheaper.
Sirani Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.06 03:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Hariya Originally by: Pilot Abilene I think it's a shame the way T3 will turn out. I don't get why they put so much effort into creating such a versatile class of ship that only a few (rich / brave /insane) will fly...atleast in the immediate future anyway. Will be a very long time before they are a common sight on the battlefield like we were lead to believe. It was meant as "end-game" stuff, for the most advanced players around. Not you and me. This is the kind of mistake Blizzard made with WoW a couple years ago until they realised it wasn't profitable to spend money creating content that only 5% of the population will ever see. I'm just wondering how long before CCP come to this realisation aswell. -------------------
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.04.06 03:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Dr Resheph If Titans were allowed in highsec, you'd see them in every system. Any idiot can feel brave in a pricy ship when CONCORD's got his back. Not necessarily. There are actually people out there who find great pleasure killing expensive ships in empire just to see their targets weep! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL

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