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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Bryionak Crinanass
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Posted - 2004.08.26 05:47:00 -
[91]
Really couldn't disagree more. The absolute right thing to do to "When did you stop beating your wife?" questions is no comment.
If people want to know what happened, log in, play, and find out. However if the game is played on these boards, well then maybe you are right.
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Bryionak Crinanass
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Posted - 2004.08.26 05:47:00 -
[92]
Really couldn't disagree more. The absolute right thing to do to "When did you stop beating your wife?" questions is no comment.
If people want to know what happened, log in, play, and find out. However if the game is played on these boards, well then maybe you are right.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.08.26 06:15:00 -
[93]
I'm not going to comment on whatever merits or validity may be involved here. I have no idea what's going on with either party, and I dont wish to make unfounded assumptions. In fact, I dont really care - accurate or inaccurate, its a news piece. Sometimes journalists make mistakes, sometimes they're brilliant.
The only real issue that I can see in this is that nearly every post Shar makes causes him to seem like an insufferable, arrogant ass. Hopefully he will apologize for his behavior as he did in the last news story that caused a moderate controversy.
 Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.08.26 06:15:00 -
[94]
I'm not going to comment on whatever merits or validity may be involved here. I have no idea what's going on with either party, and I dont wish to make unfounded assumptions. In fact, I dont really care - accurate or inaccurate, its a news piece. Sometimes journalists make mistakes, sometimes they're brilliant.
The only real issue that I can see in this is that nearly every post Shar makes causes him to seem like an insufferable, arrogant ass. Hopefully he will apologize for his behavior as he did in the last news story that caused a moderate controversy.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Omega Man
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Posted - 2004.08.26 10:38:00 -
[95]
good idea dont make any useful comments about the news piece just make an unwarranted personal attack in the effort to start a flame war.
I suggest Shar continues the good work on Eve Guardian and rather than let those involved defend themselves on a public forum by creating this post just publish and be dammed.
As the general level of debate on these forums is pretty much summed up by the above post.
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Omega Man
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Posted - 2004.08.26 10:38:00 -
[96]
good idea dont make any useful comments about the news piece just make an unwarranted personal attack in the effort to start a flame war.
I suggest Shar continues the good work on Eve Guardian and rather than let those involved defend themselves on a public forum by creating this post just publish and be dammed.
As the general level of debate on these forums is pretty much summed up by the above post.
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Kirushi
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Posted - 2004.08.26 15:25:00 -
[97]
u sure know about levels eh omega man...heh
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Kirushi
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Posted - 2004.08.26 15:25:00 -
[98]
u sure know about levels eh omega man...heh
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.08.26 15:43:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 26/08/2004 15:45:26
The level, of the recent responses, has brought some evidence to Alowishus' suposition about the intelligence groupings of the community.
All the principles have had their say, outside interested parties have expressed their opinions, and now the Alt trolls want to have a slice of the pie.
No.
Lock it and let it get buried.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.08.26 15:43:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 26/08/2004 15:45:26
The level, of the recent responses, has brought some evidence to Alowishus' suposition about the intelligence groupings of the community.
All the principles have had their say, outside interested parties have expressed their opinions, and now the Alt trolls want to have a slice of the pie.
No.
Lock it and let it get buried.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Bared Bel'Medar
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Posted - 2004.08.26 17:04:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 26/08/2004 15:45:26
The level, of the recent responses, has brought some evidence to Alowishus' suposition about the intelligence groupings of the community.
All the principles have had their say, outside interested parties have expressed their opinions, and now the Alt trolls want to have a slice of the pie.
No.
Lock it and let it get buried.
you still dont get it. Your source sucked, you went with unreliable inaccurate BS. I've made those same mistakes, andd as any member of Curse or The C4 Alliance can tell you, I apologize. But then, thats the differnce here. Me and My ingame counter parts, no matter how amoral I am or immoral anyone else is, good business is good business. Sure, I argue with the Omega guys on occassion about Duke, but I used to argue with the Tyrell guys about Semp. You cant go off making **** up, especially when the corp in question has to put up with audits from 3 of the most anal men in the game. If what you say was true, shadow company would be out of our space by now. They aren't and we arent planning to move them anytime soon, what does that tell you?
I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer... |
Bared Bel'Medar
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Posted - 2004.08.26 17:04:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 26/08/2004 15:45:26
The level, of the recent responses, has brought some evidence to Alowishus' suposition about the intelligence groupings of the community.
All the principles have had their say, outside interested parties have expressed their opinions, and now the Alt trolls want to have a slice of the pie.
No.
Lock it and let it get buried.
you still dont get it. Your source sucked, you went with unreliable inaccurate BS. I've made those same mistakes, andd as any member of Curse or The C4 Alliance can tell you, I apologize. But then, thats the differnce here. Me and My ingame counter parts, no matter how amoral I am or immoral anyone else is, good business is good business. Sure, I argue with the Omega guys on occassion about Duke, but I used to argue with the Tyrell guys about Semp. You cant go off making **** up, especially when the corp in question has to put up with audits from 3 of the most anal men in the game. If what you say was true, shadow company would be out of our space by now. They aren't and we arent planning to move them anytime soon, what does that tell you?
I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer... |
Lalakama
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Posted - 2004.08.26 19:53:00 -
[103]
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
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Lalakama
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Posted - 2004.08.26 19:53:00 -
[104]
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:42:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Lalakama
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
Thank you, for proving something else I pointed out.
Support is a fickle beast. This statement from a one year old alt is not in any means credible. (Not that I'm saying you are wrong either.) So not all supporters are ones I would have nor would I get rid of all those who dissent.
LOL, to be quite honest I don't really care one way or the other about that. You do what you do according to the dictates of your ethics and that's that. Who you are, and what you are about, is clearly displayed over time, not in one spot.
Which is why I don't debate =my= credibility. I distrust those who say, "I can be trusted as much as the next guy." Having stood next to many of you I'm horrorified at the thought.
PS: The thread has outlived itself... what's next?
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:42:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Lalakama
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
Thank you, for proving something else I pointed out.
Support is a fickle beast. This statement from a one year old alt is not in any means credible. (Not that I'm saying you are wrong either.) So not all supporters are ones I would have nor would I get rid of all those who dissent.
LOL, to be quite honest I don't really care one way or the other about that. You do what you do according to the dictates of your ethics and that's that. Who you are, and what you are about, is clearly displayed over time, not in one spot.
Which is why I don't debate =my= credibility. I distrust those who say, "I can be trusted as much as the next guy." Having stood next to many of you I'm horrorified at the thought.
PS: The thread has outlived itself... what's next?
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Bared Bel'Medar
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:45:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Lalakama
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
Nice of you to post with a year old alt. Ad if your going to trash talk, do it so we know whos doing tha trash talking.
I for one have worked with Cujo a lot, and although he runsa VERY tight ship, his only flaw is that he has some of the old guard SGE and GFL in his ranks. Cujo has put up with a ton of crap, and anyone who can tolerate that, usually isnt a criminal.
I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer... |
Bared Bel'Medar
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:45:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Lalakama
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
Nice of you to post with a year old alt. Ad if your going to trash talk, do it so we know whos doing tha trash talking.
I for one have worked with Cujo a lot, and although he runsa VERY tight ship, his only flaw is that he has some of the old guard SGE and GFL in his ranks. Cujo has put up with a ton of crap, and anyone who can tolerate that, usually isnt a criminal.
I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer... |
Bryionak Crinanass
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:16:00 -
[109]
I just reread the original article and the follow-up and failed to see Cujo's name anywhere. I did notice that Cujo is not a member of Shadow Company. So I am not exactly sure how your past experience with Cujo is relevant. Unless anecdotal evidence from anyone who has ever had a bad experience with any member of SA is now more evidence that the original story "has some validity".
Your post is a perfect example why some people are criticizing the original article. What is the truth we have now learned? That is not a rhetorical question. I have read both articles on EG a couple times, and I have read through this thread and I have no idea what the truth on this matter is and don't see how anyone else with only those sources could either. But now we have this out there and 4 months from now newb_965 asks friend_002 about Shadow Company and says he is thinking of joining up with them. Friend_002 says "hmm, there was some story about them stealing from SA a few months back, be careful." The statement from friend_002 is a factual truthful statement. Is this fair?
Let's say my corp suddenly found a BP was missing and I had access to that BP at the time. How do I prove that I didn't steal? I give the CEO access to my account and they look and don't see it anywhere in my assets, don't see any mail about research slots, don't see any large influx of isk at the time it went missing. Does that prove I am innocent? No it doesn't. Hopefully for me in my hypothetical situation, someone will come forward and claim responsibility for the deed.
What evidence can Shadow Company provide to prove their innocence? Should they give EG access to their corp accounts, wallet, and historical documentation that, at best, proves if they stole they were smart about it?
I am not a member of SA or Shadow Company. The corp I am in was formally a member of SA but left after a month or so of me joining. I don't know anyone involved in this, but I feel bad that someone is having to defend the indefensible and if they don't respond they are now committing a crime of whitewashing the situation.
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Bryionak Crinanass
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:16:00 -
[110]
I just reread the original article and the follow-up and failed to see Cujo's name anywhere. I did notice that Cujo is not a member of Shadow Company. So I am not exactly sure how your past experience with Cujo is relevant. Unless anecdotal evidence from anyone who has ever had a bad experience with any member of SA is now more evidence that the original story "has some validity".
Your post is a perfect example why some people are criticizing the original article. What is the truth we have now learned? That is not a rhetorical question. I have read both articles on EG a couple times, and I have read through this thread and I have no idea what the truth on this matter is and don't see how anyone else with only those sources could either. But now we have this out there and 4 months from now newb_965 asks friend_002 about Shadow Company and says he is thinking of joining up with them. Friend_002 says "hmm, there was some story about them stealing from SA a few months back, be careful." The statement from friend_002 is a factual truthful statement. Is this fair?
Let's say my corp suddenly found a BP was missing and I had access to that BP at the time. How do I prove that I didn't steal? I give the CEO access to my account and they look and don't see it anywhere in my assets, don't see any mail about research slots, don't see any large influx of isk at the time it went missing. Does that prove I am innocent? No it doesn't. Hopefully for me in my hypothetical situation, someone will come forward and claim responsibility for the deed.
What evidence can Shadow Company provide to prove their innocence? Should they give EG access to their corp accounts, wallet, and historical documentation that, at best, proves if they stole they were smart about it?
I am not a member of SA or Shadow Company. The corp I am in was formally a member of SA but left after a month or so of me joining. I don't know anyone involved in this, but I feel bad that someone is having to defend the indefensible and if they don't respond they are now committing a crime of whitewashing the situation.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:56:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Lalakama
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
Now we have alts coming out of the woodwork to jump on the bandwagon and put their two cents in. Great. 
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:56:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Lalakama
I'm glad to see the truth about some of these members that SA has been harboring. I noticed Cujos name in there. Not surprised. He's pulled several scams and has even sunk to hangar thievery and then been taken in by SGE of SA. IMO, EVE Guardian owes no one an apology for printing the truth. It let's us honest players know who to watch out for.
Now we have alts coming out of the woodwork to jump on the bandwagon and put their two cents in. Great.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.26 22:12:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Celticjim on 26/08/2004 22:16:46
Reread the article...his name is in there.
If you don't know what happened in the past, then don't post opinions about past events because you don't know ****.
If the alt is someone I know personally, post with yer main, take the heat, and post a new topic addressing previous grievances.
CJ
edit - added a few words as the middle sentence didnt make sense.
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Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.26 22:12:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Celticjim on 26/08/2004 22:16:46
Reread the article...his name is in there.
If you don't know what happened in the past, then don't post opinions about past events because you don't know ****.
If the alt is someone I know personally, post with yer main, take the heat, and post a new topic addressing previous grievances.
CJ
edit - added a few words as the middle sentence didnt make sense.
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Bryionak Crinanass
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:11:00 -
[115]
Not sure if your whole response is directed towards me, but you are right Cujo's name is there on the last line of the article. My bad. However what was his involvement in this? There is no info or evidence he did anything wrong. Is the fact that one player had a bad experience with him in the past proof that something did go on here? I think not.
And if people are not supposed to comment on such an article then maybe said article shouldn't be posted on public discussion forums because well, the public may discuss them.
And I really am not discussing the events but the reporting of said events and the public's reaction to them.
And I am not an alt. This is my main and the only character I play. And well in all fairness maybe I have an axe to grind in regards to the reporter and I am in general a SA supporter albeit from a far.
/fade back into lurker mode
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Bryionak Crinanass
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:11:00 -
[116]
Not sure if your whole response is directed towards me, but you are right Cujo's name is there on the last line of the article. My bad. However what was his involvement in this? There is no info or evidence he did anything wrong. Is the fact that one player had a bad experience with him in the past proof that something did go on here? I think not.
And if people are not supposed to comment on such an article then maybe said article shouldn't be posted on public discussion forums because well, the public may discuss them.
And I really am not discussing the events but the reporting of said events and the public's reaction to them.
And I am not an alt. This is my main and the only character I play. And well in all fairness maybe I have an axe to grind in regards to the reporter and I am in general a SA supporter albeit from a far.
/fade back into lurker mode
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Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:45:00 -
[117]
 ...no....entire thing wasn't directed to you at all. Just the first thing.
The remaining two points directed to the alt that posted about other stuff not pertaining to the article trying to bring up old ghosts. If they want to bring up old ghosts, do it, but create a separate post that does not detract from this one, and use their main character so to bring about further credibility to their issue. The final point more to people defending past issues without possible fully understanding what may have/have not occurred in the past.
In regards to the article, there are still a few people I remember there in SA and if any impropriety does exist, it will get addressed. As for articles/reporters etc....classic example of wagging the dog. Trial balloon got floated to see the reaction and to gauge if there was something to chase. Based upon the respose to this post, not really too much to go chasing. Innuendo doesn't make for fact and I always thought reporters got a double confirmation on details before reporting it as newsworthy?
CJ
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Celticjim
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:45:00 -
[118]
...no....entire thing wasn't directed to you at all. Just the first thing.
The remaining two points directed to the alt that posted about other stuff not pertaining to the article trying to bring up old ghosts. If they want to bring up old ghosts, do it, but create a separate post that does not detract from this one, and use their main character so to bring about further credibility to their issue. The final point more to people defending past issues without possible fully understanding what may have/have not occurred in the past.
In regards to the article, there are still a few people I remember there in SA and if any impropriety does exist, it will get addressed. As for articles/reporters etc....classic example of wagging the dog. Trial balloon got floated to see the reaction and to gauge if there was something to chase. Based upon the respose to this post, not really too much to go chasing. Innuendo doesn't make for fact and I always thought reporters got a double confirmation on details before reporting it as newsworthy?
CJ
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:00:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Bryionak Crinanass
I have read both articles on EG a couple times, and I have read through this thread and I have no idea what the truth on this matter is and don't see how anyone else with only those sources could either. But now we have this out there and 4 months from now newb_965 asks friend_002 about Shadow Company and says he is thinking of joining up with them. Friend_002 says "hmm, there was some story about them stealing from SA a few months back, be careful." The statement from friend_002 is a factual truthful statement. Is this fair?
It is interesting to hear the point that was being delivered... What may have confused the issue was someone "confirming" that the core information was valid but from my perspective the point to be made is "mishandling" can be even more detrimental, and confusing, then any possible wrong doing.
If there ever was any.
Quote:
I always thought reporters got a double confirmation on details before reporting it as newsworthy?
What outsiders believe of the press is alot like what laymen believe of the law. Usually incorrect. However in this case there were two confirmations not just one.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:00:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Bryionak Crinanass
I have read both articles on EG a couple times, and I have read through this thread and I have no idea what the truth on this matter is and don't see how anyone else with only those sources could either. But now we have this out there and 4 months from now newb_965 asks friend_002 about Shadow Company and says he is thinking of joining up with them. Friend_002 says "hmm, there was some story about them stealing from SA a few months back, be careful." The statement from friend_002 is a factual truthful statement. Is this fair?
It is interesting to hear the point that was being delivered... What may have confused the issue was someone "confirming" that the core information was valid but from my perspective the point to be made is "mishandling" can be even more detrimental, and confusing, then any possible wrong doing.
If there ever was any.
Quote:
I always thought reporters got a double confirmation on details before reporting it as newsworthy?
What outsiders believe of the press is alot like what laymen believe of the law. Usually incorrect. However in this case there were two confirmations not just one.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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