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drdxie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2012.05.03 02:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Turret ships have a medium and low slot module to help them track better and increase optimal ranges. I think we need similar modules for missile boats to decrease explosion velocity and explosion radius. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
635
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Posted - 2012.05.03 02:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
I could get behind this idea... but I'd be cautious. Missiles ALWAYS hit so long as they are in range and one of the few ways to mitigate missile damage is through small sig and/or speed.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
239
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Posted - 2012.05.03 03:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:I could get behind this idea... but I'd be cautious. Missiles ALWAYS hit so long as they are in range and one of the few ways to mitigate missile damage is through small sig and/or speed.
I've mentioned this before, but missiles can hit for 0 damage when mitigated by sig and/or speed. Which, i'm not about you, I consider to be a miss.
Thank in mind, we do have target painters for mid slots. However, we have a disadvantage in this.
Target painters use cap where as turret modules do not.
There's also the fact that they have cycle times that are off from launcher cycle times, so often times when target painters are needed, we'll have to wait for them to finish cycling before we can engage the next target.
Another problem that I have more refers to the combo of missiles and shields I.E. caldari.
In fitting out mids with target painters and shields we lose out on cap rechargers and cap boosters or shield/tp if we decide to fit either of these.
I would suggest in these two cases to make these modules multi slot and fit into mid or low slots, then we can remove capacitor flux coils and capacitor power relays which are relatively inferior to the cap recharger.
However, this could also be said for a shield recharger and shield power relay/flux coils. I rarely see a ship fitted with a shield recharger because resistance and extenders are more effective, so removing the relays and fluxes and allowing shield rechargers to fit in low slots means we get more function shields.
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drdxie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2012.05.09 01:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
wow, so only 3 missile pilots in eve feeling left out .. especially now since drones get a damage mod
Missile enhancers.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1235061& |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
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Posted - 2012.05.09 02:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
Target painters use cap where as turret modules do not.
Missile launchers don't use cap but guns do....
I primarily fly Caldari and use missiles and I don't think they need another damage mod. They do what they are meant to do, which is always hit regardless of transversal.
Now, where I might have an issue is when CCP fixes defender missiles and then missiles have an active counter but guns do not. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
244
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Posted - 2012.05.09 02:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
Target painters use cap where as turret modules do not.
Missile launchers don't use cap but guns do.... I primarily fly Caldari and use missiles and I don't think they need another damage mod. They do what they are meant to do, which is always hit regardless of transversal. Now, where I might have an issue is when CCP fixes defender missiles and then missiles have an active counter but guns do not.
Well, missiles don't use cap, but the boats they fit on have been designed to factor that in, and turrets also have skills to counter their cap use.
I don't think missiles need another damage mod either, i'm fine with bcu's.
As far as defender missiles, I'm going to be super pissed if CCP doesn't remove them from the game. The reason I say this is because CCP is changing tracking disruptors to be weapon disruptors. They're now going to effect missiles as well.
So if defenders are still in game when this happens, I'm gonna flip cause we'll have two counters. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
216
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Posted - 2012.05.09 02:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
Target painters use cap where as turret modules do not.
Missile launchers don't use cap but guns do.... I primarily fly Caldari and use missiles and I don't think they need another damage mod. They do what they are meant to do, which is always hit regardless of transversal. Now, where I might have an issue is when CCP fixes defender missiles and then missiles have an active counter but guns do not.
You mean something like a tracking disruptor? |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
16
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Posted - 2012.05.09 03:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:Loius Woo wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
Target painters use cap where as turret modules do not.
Missile launchers don't use cap but guns do.... I primarily fly Caldari and use missiles and I don't think they need another damage mod. They do what they are meant to do, which is always hit regardless of transversal. Now, where I might have an issue is when CCP fixes defender missiles and then missiles have an active counter but guns do not. You mean something like a tracking disruptor?
Tracking disruptor just slows down the tracking of a gun, if you are not a fast ship, then it doesn't help you. Therefore it doesn't have any affect on BS v BS fights. If CCP fixes defender missiles, then it diminishes damage regardless of all other factors. So, that is kind of different. |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
56
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Posted - 2012.05.09 04:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Well, missiles don't use cap, but the boats they fit on have been designed to factor that in, and turrets also have skills to counter their cap use.
the power drain of tp is nowhere near the level of power drain of lasers and hybrid ammo. If your tp is killing your cap that bad.....something has gone horribly wrong. Fly rohks with high cap use ammo...you'll see for yourslf what exactly power drain really is.
Well that and tp also has a skill to reduce power needs. the skill is called target painting. 5% reduction per level. 20% power savings at level 4.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
661
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Posted - 2012.05.09 06:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Actually, the way I see it... Target Painters = Tracking Computers
They do pretty much the same thing, just in very different ways.
When I saw this idea I thought of something along the lines of a "Rigor/Flare Mod."
But like I said in my first post... best to be careful with this as missiles can't be "speed tanked" quite the same way turrets can be
For example: an interceptor can basically "speed tank" a Harbinger at range with few problems... against a "standard" HML Drake it will have to bug out as it will take a fair bit of damage over time despite its small sig radius and speed.
Also for disclosure... I can BARELY use missiles. However I have been on the receiving end of them more times than I care to count (a HML Nano-Drake is just all kinds of nasty).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds
Nulli Secunda
42
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Posted - 2012.05.09 11:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
In eve's current state... this is not required.
After missiles get nerfed again (tracking disruptors) it'll be something missile boat pilots need. |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
87
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Posted - 2012.05.12 14:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
drdxie wrote:wow, so only 3 missile pilots in eve feeling left out .. especially now since drones get a damage mod
Welcome to the party m8
ShahFluffers wrote:Actually, the way I see it... Target Painters = Tracking Computers
They do pretty much the same thing, just in very different ways.
Similar, but no.
Turrets and missiles rely on different stats to do damage.
Turrets rely on chance to hit and tracking (how fast the gun turns relative to the angular velocity of the target.)
Missiles rely on chance to hit (which is most often 100%) but missile "tracking" and the damage they do is split between the target's sig rad relative to the missile's exp rad AND the target's velocity relative to the missile's exp velocity.
Target painters will increase a turret's chance to hit while tracking computers can make each hit on a moving target do more damage. They also may increase the range of those turrets. Tracking enhancers do the same albeit less effectively.
Target painters help missiles by increasing the target's sig rad relative to the missile's exp rad. But they do nothing to diminish any disparity between the target' velocity and the missile's exp velocity. There is no module that can help missiles in this stat other than a webifier. There is also no module that gives missiles more range.
Target painters /= Tracking computers until the day they either slow target's down or increase a missile's exp velocity while also increasing missile range. 
The more elegant solution might be for CCP to introduce such a module(s) especially in light of this:
CCP SoniClover wrote:Drone damage module - the main reason to add this was to have all the main weapon types have a corresponding damage amplifying module.
Quote found here
By that remarkably sound logic and due to the fact that all main weapons have a corresponding module to increase their tracking and range........
I expect we will see CCP introduce missile enhancement modules. Right?
Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2012.05.12 23:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Your suggestion has one major flaw in the very text itself. You want a mod that decreases Explosion Radius and Velocity? Normally, Explosion Velocity should be as high as possible, to be able to deal max damage against faster targets, not as low as possible, unless you know you're going to be fighting against Capitals or other ships that are already slower than bricks. Until that is corrected, I'm not going to consider supporting this. |
Im Super Gay
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
66
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Posted - 2012.05.13 00:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:Loius Woo wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
Target painters use cap where as turret modules do not.
Missile launchers don't use cap but guns do.... I primarily fly Caldari and use missiles and I don't think they need another damage mod. They do what they are meant to do, which is always hit regardless of transversal. Now, where I might have an issue is when CCP fixes defender missiles and then missiles have an active counter but guns do not. You mean something like a tracking disruptor? Tracking disruptor just slows down the tracking of a gun, if you are not a fast ship, then it doesn't help you. Therefore it doesn't have any affect on BS v BS fights. If CCP fixes defender missiles, then it diminishes damage regardless of all other factors. So, that is kind of different.
You forgot about the optimal range disruption script. Tight orbit: tracking speed disruption; farther away: optimal range disruption. And a BS orbiting a BS at close range can have tracking issues, so throwing on a tracking disruption script could really mess with the target's ability to hit you. |
Aldap
Club Bear
105
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Posted - 2012.07.03 06:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
+1 for this while thread.
Missiles need love. While I appreciate the nice new graphics, the love suggested in this thread would be of much greater value.
My latest PvP videos: Underdog and Hunter-Hunted |
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