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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3615
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Posted - 2012.05.03 06:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Given that the silent majority of the game...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_silence
In short, you assume that those who do not speak must agree with you. Yet you have provided no evidence other than their silence. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3616
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Posted - 2012.05.03 06:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:The Government and Lawyers/Court systems do this all the time; why should anyone else be any different?
Lemmings jump off cliffs all the time; why don't you? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3616
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Posted - 2012.05.03 06:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
I keep forgetting that some people would rather be wrong than live. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3621
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Posted - 2012.05.03 08:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:Given that the silent majority of the game, namely high sec players, don't follow the forums, this thread is pointless. But I feel like Don Quixote tonight, and am indeed mad as hell.
CCP acknowledges through their own numbers that slightly over 70% of all players in game are high sec. Yet we have essentially one person, Kelduum from E-UNI who is ostensibly high sec, and E-UNI is actually migrating a lot of players to null sec.
In any case, since the the null sec zealots have realized the past couple years what a powerful meta-game tool the CSM is, they have done everything they can to control it and bend CCP to their will.
If high sec players want any control over their game, they have to become organized, and form a strong voting bloc. Consider:
There are 400,000 paid accounts on TQ. That is approx 1 million chars.
goons and test, the 2 largest alliances in the game, add up to 14,000 chars. That is 1.4 percent of the entire game base. Assume they all have 3 accounts. That makes it a whopping 4.2%, yet they with their control of the game and the direction of the game is far, far more than the demographics show.
If even 10% of high sec players were actually engaged in the political process, we could dominate the CSM, and start pushing back at all the attacks by the null sec zealot group in game and within CCP.
We need to stat organizing now, for the next CSM.
But who am I kidding. It won't happen. High sec players will just quit once all the changes coming down the pipe are implemented. Heck, I will likely have packed it in myself, rather than waste my time fighting lost battles in and out of game.
High sec players, consider this a warning for you: Organize now. The next CSM may be your last chance to save high sec in some playable format. Uhm, did you follow the CSM 7 elections. I ran for high sec and won a seat. I definitely feel your frustration. In 24 hours my alliance will be at war with the goons for speaking out about their leaders poor behavior. I am not sure how CCP sees Eve as serving the majority of its customers when it allows a small group to ruin the game for the majority. We can only hope new aggression and war mechanics might level the playing field. Issler
You forgot to mention your own poor behaviour, for which you were also required to apologise in public. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3621
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 12:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Enuen Ravenseye wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:what do you hisecers want again? To be left in peace ... so they can continue to bot and RMT without interference. I thought most of those recently caught were not in hi-sec. Am I mistaken in this?
You are mistaken. More bots were banned from The Forge than from all of 0.0 IIRC. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3622
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Posted - 2012.05.03 13:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sycho Pathic wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Lemmings jump off cliffs all the time; why don't you?
Actually, they don't. That was fabricated by Walt Disney documentary makers back in the 1950s.
:Yodaface: Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3622
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 13:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Virtually every 0.0, lo-sec and W-space player will have at least one hi-sec character, often more. I've never met a single exception to this rule, and if such players exist they are extremely rare. Of my 6 characters on 2 accounts, 1 is perma hi-sec and 3 of the others spend 80%+ of their time in hi-sec.
Very very few "hi-sec" focused players have a character outside of hi-sec.
It would be a safe statement to say that for every character in 0.0 there is a character in hi-sec belonging to the same player. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3622
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Posted - 2012.05.03 13:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Malcanis wrote: Virtually every 0.0, lo-sec and W-space player will have at least one hi-sec character, often more. I've never met a single exception to this rule, and if such players exist they are extremely rare. Of my 6 characters on 2 accounts, 1 is perma hi-sec and 3 of the others spend 80%+ of their time in hi-sec.
Very very few "hi-sec" focused players have a character outside of hi-sec.
It would be a safe statement to say that for every character in 0.0 there is a character in hi-sec belonging to the same player.
Soooo... What about the "hi-sec industrialist" with 7 accounts? Or my favorite the guy I met while I was in Uni (he was obviously a much older toon) who had 25 accounts? There are, I'm sure, any number of variations on the theme... All we *know* are the numbers we've been given... (I have not identified him, because he's not involved in this conversation) - it used to be a standing joke that there were really only 5 people in the uni, everyone else was just this guys alts talking to each other.... Not saying you are in any way, shape or form wrong, just that it is speculation to argue that the 60+% in hi-sec are majority alts of null-sec'ers (or anyone else for that matter).
I'm not saying anything about 7-account hi-sec guys except that few of them seem to have 0.0/W-space characters, and if they do there aren't many of them.
I'm just saying that a significant demographic of "hi-sec" characters belong to players who consider themselves "null sec", whereas the demographic of "0.0" characters that belong to players who consider themselves "hi-sec" is trivial.
My wild-assed guess would be that hi-sec is something like 25-30% populated by characters belonging to players who consider themselves as "low/null" and that less than 1% of characters in null belong to "hi-sec" players. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3622
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Posted - 2012.05.03 13:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Malcanis wrote:
It would be a safe statement to say that for every character in 0.0 there is a character in hi-sec belonging to the same player.
That is indeed their Skeleton in a Closet. Come out, come out....wherever you are.....
Urgh, I mangled the original sentence (I hate it when people at work interrupt my whoruming)
"It would be a safe statement to say that for every character in 0.0, W-space or 0.0, there is a character in hi-sec belonging to that category of player" Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3623
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Posted - 2012.05.03 14:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
ITT: people who don't know that the eve-offline graphs go from right to left. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3627
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Someone read Adam Smith and believed him? Wow. Why don't you give us a lecture about The Consumer With Perfect Knowledge? Kind of like physics "Frictionless Surfaces". Never read adam smith - but tbqh - everyone qq'ing about "goons" wrecking the game is getting under my skin. One of the "goons" biggest advantages has been in (super) cap ships (lately) - And Mittani and all the rest of the 0.0 inhabitants have lobbied, directly against their own best interests to get them nerfed... So yeah, I think people are blowing they're "control" over ccp way out of line... Malcanis wrote:I'm not saying anything about 7-account hi-sec guys except that few of them seem to have 0.0/W-space characters, and if they do there aren't many of them.
I'm just saying that a significant demographic of "hi-sec" characters belong to players who consider themselves "null sec", whereas the demographic of "0.0" characters that belong to players who consider themselves "hi-sec" is trivial.
My wild-assed guess would be that hi-sec is something like 20-30% populated by characters belonging to players who consider themselves as "low/null" and that less than 1% of characters in null belong to "hi-sec" players. And my original point was that we *only* know for sure the numbers that CCP has put out, and nothing else. 2.2 accounts (average) per player, and the % break down of where people live... Everything else is speculation...
And the point I was making is that it's obviously incorrect to infer player preferences from security status populations. Simply saying "67% of characters are in high sec therefore 67% of players don't want PvP/want suicide ganking banned/don't want T2 production moved to 0.0" relies on a blatant fallacy. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3627
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Broken Thoughts wrote: nerf people who actually care about how the game evolves, lets all just be quiet and suck up whatever change ccp makes Typical 0.0 attitude. Everything always benefits you...
Yeah you're right. Let's swap the stats of player outposts and NPC ones to make things fair.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3632
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Posted - 2012.05.03 21:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Tippia wrote:Asuri Kinnes wrote:30% Null? No. 30% low/null. Quote:Again, since we *can't* know the total break down of people/accounts/characters who have interests in Null, or those who have interests in Hi-sec - the total numbers might as well be made up out of whole cloth. No. We can still say with complete certainty that the number is much larger than the 30% (actually 34.7%, but it's not as round and easy to remember). Why? Because we know for a fact that these people have alts in highsec, and we know for a fact that the GÇ£highsecGÇ¥ players do not have corresponding low/null alts, because that would mean they're not highsec players by very definition. Highsec player is an exclusive category (the whole point of being a highsec player is that you're only in highsec); low/nullsec are inclusive categories (just because you're in low/null doesn't mean you don't have a highsec alt for various convenient purposes). Thus we know that the highsec category can only ever lose members and the number can only ever go down as potential members fail to adhere to that exclusivity. Quote:And the assumption your making, is that the number of players residing in Hi-Sec *don't* have an equal number of alt accounts - thereby totally cancelling out the "low/0.0" alts numbers. No, because the assumption I'm making makes the alts of highseccers irrelevant because we're not counting how many are in that exclusive category GÇö we're counting how many are not. That's the whole beauty of an exclusive category: it gives you a hard upper bound and an easy way to whittle that number down. The alts of the highseccers do not cancel anything out GÇö they're already counted and are irrelevant for the number we're interested in. A Null Bear would be torn into little pieces in Low Sec and the wolves would then spit up his corpse cause it was unworthy of being devoured. Unless he is rolling with the 24/7 1000 Capital Ship blob hot-drop crew.
Really? I found low sec to be a relaxing place after living in Curse, and I had a lovely 3 month holiday pirating.
In any case, Tippia is correct. It doesn't matter how many hi-sec alts high sec players have because we know the total number of characters in high sec anyway.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3634
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Posted - 2012.05.04 06:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:Let's see how much CCP Marketing is singing the praises of all the null sec zealots in about 6 or 7 months. Let's see how excited they are about all this player driven content when the null sec zealots have shut down 3 or 4 trade hubs simultaneously, without warning this time, and crushed a lot of high sec industrial players enough they quit the game.
Frankly, the concept of financially crushing high sec is a hugely daunting task, and I would impressed at the logistics of making it happen. What I cannot stand is the maliciousness and reason for doing it: to drive players out of high sec or out of the game. I thought we were ~having no effect~. Fail cascading? Being beaten up and chased off by the Jita scammers.
Well isn't that just the dambdest thing about goons? How they can simultaneously be so amazingly stupid, have ADHD, know nothing about the game, be so totally, irredeemably bad, and yet... Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3634
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Posted - 2012.05.04 06:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Incidentally, I'd like to give Tippia a special shoutout for so bravely and doggedly defending a tangential point I made about 5 pages back, the logic of which I thought was obvious to anyone with a secondary school maths qualification, against the massed and relentless forces of those who's worldview depends so very strongly on not understanding that logic.
Tippia, your persistence and patience is an inspriation to us all. The raw effort you have put in combating people who are simply unwilling or unable to understand the obvious implications of the previously uncontroversial fact that virtually all non-hisec players have at least one hisec alt, whilst virtually no hisec players have a non-hi-sec alt leaves me humbled. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3688
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:highonpop wrote:Highsec is for people who view EVE as just like any other MMO. Grind out ISk for the sole purpose of grinding out isk. Never having an impact on the game, knowing what is actually going on in the game. Or even knowing what EVE is really all about, other than running missions and mining.
Ironically, I both agree with your post in total, but I really hate the unbelievable ill-informed nature of the above quotage. When was the last time a peon in a Goon Fleet actually built a Crane from pieces ? Ships impact the game in a HUGE way I believe. In fact it is now CCP's focus.
You seem to be under the impression that the CFC doesn't have a huge logistics and trading operation.
if they don't build many ships in 0.0, that's more because 0.0 is a terrible, dreadful, handicapped place to build ships in than because they don't want to or they don't know how. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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