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Kriegman
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:The fact that Goonswarm and TEST are some of the main ones leading the charge that war decs are "unfair" says otherwise about the so-called not caring about war decs.
Do you have any specific examples as to why we would give a damn about wardecs? Other than catching noobs and idiots that undock their Badger II from jita 4-4, you make no difference to us. In fact I would prefer that entire empire would wardec us so we could roam to highsec and murder you all on regular basis without having to deal with the concord.
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Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
139
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kriegman wrote:Pinky Feldman wrote:The fact that Goonswarm and TEST are some of the main ones leading the charge that war decs are "unfair" says otherwise about the so-called not caring about war decs. Do you have any specific examples as to why we would give a damn about wardecs? Other than catching noobs and idiots that undock their Badger II from jita 4-4, you make no difference to us. In fact I would prefer that entire empire would wardec us so we could roam to highsec and murder you all on regular basis without having to deal with the concord.
For starters, the fact that you just wrote me a whole paragraph stating how much you don't care and continually feel the need to voice your opinion on war dec game mechanics and how they should be changed. It seems to me the only person you're trying to convince that you don't care about war decs is yourself.
The moar you cry the less you pee |

Kriegman
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:16:00 -
[63] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:Kriegman wrote:Pinky Feldman wrote:The fact that Goonswarm and TEST are some of the main ones leading the charge that war decs are "unfair" says otherwise about the so-called not caring about war decs. Do you have any specific examples as to why we would give a damn about wardecs? Other than catching noobs and idiots that undock their Badger II from jita 4-4, you make no difference to us. In fact I would prefer that entire empire would wardec us so we could roam to highsec and murder you all on regular basis without having to deal with the concord. For starters, the fact that you just wrote me a whole paragraph stating how much you don't care and continually feel the need to voice your opinion on war dec game mechanics and how they should be changed. It seems to me the only person you're trying to convince that you don't care about war decs is yourself.
:palmface You win, have some brawndo, it got electrolytes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbxq0IDqD04 |

Troll Gremlin
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 02:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
50m is to much, but a good highsec wardecing corp can still make that up from ransoming and droped loot. But this will kill the small wardecing corps out there as only the biger hardcore corps can make profit off it. If ppl wanna stop wardecing then u should also stop suicide ganking, scaming and just turn eve into a pve game.... As far as big alliance nullsec wardecing whats the point of wardecing in nullsec anyways? Wardecing is for highsec piracy and merc's, most ppl don't wardec just to pvp with another corp as most pvp corps r pirates or in nullsec. |

Dreadmon
Free Imperial Vikings Monkey Circus
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 03:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
Needs more work ccp. super bad if it takes bill's to WD big alli's |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
990
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 03:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:
For starters, the fact that you just wrote me a whole paragraph stating how much you don't care and continually feel the need to voice your opinion on war dec game mechanics and how they should be changed. It seems to me the only person you're trying to convince that you don't care about war decs is yourself.
I'm not the one trying to rally the forums because 50m is expensive.
Pinky I know you, all the points you're attempting to half-ass present here are all terrible; Nobody gives a **** about Empire space, there are no 'good fights' in empire space, and I really don't care how buttmad you get about CCP pulling your card to shoot at industrials and noobships relatively ISK free.
Neutral Logi doesn't affect me, or anyone else in my coalition really; what GoonSwarm petitioned or did not petition about in regards to -A-, or THORNE, or whoever that other Alliance was that was using Neutral Logistics and dragging aggression from one party to another comes down to minute details about game mechanics most of us could careless about.
The fact that your Alliance was formed in one big fit of rage because your incompetant CEO at the time couldn't take a verbal lashing from an Alliance Officer in The 0rphanage says alot about you and your organization. I'm sure you will have alot to say in rebuttal to this, but honestly, who cares.
Fly Dangerous (lol get it)
-Aerion/Xolve Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
990
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 03:32:00 -
[67] - Quote
Troll Gremlin wrote:50m is to much, but a good highsec wardecing corp can still make that up from ransoming and droped loot. But this will kill the small wardecing corps out there as only the biger hardcore corps can make profit off it. If ppl wanna stop wardecing then u should also stop suicide ganking, scaming and just turn eve into a pve game....  As far as big alliance nullsec wardecing whats the point of wardecing in nullsec anyways? Wardecing is for highsec piracy and merc's, most ppl don't wardec just to pvp with another corp as most pvp corps r pirates or in nullsec.
It won't ruin High Sec war decs, it will just force you to fight people that actually frequent empire space to fight.
It might actually make you do something more productive then sit on a gate/station in insta-ships whoring onto killmails. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
252
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 08:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
Xolve, *we* care about wardecs. If you don't, then feel free to leave the thread. I mean, really, why are you in the thread if you actually don't care? Do you also go into ice cream shops, stand in line, and tell the dude that you don't give a **** about ice cream and don't want any? Because that's what you just did here, by posting in this thread. |

Reppyk
The Black Shell
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 14:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
Xolve wrote:It might actually make you do something more productive then sit on a gate/station in insta-ships whoring onto killmails. Sup sup guys.
|

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
990
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:42:00 -
[70] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:Xolve, *we* care about wardecs. If you don't, then feel free to leave the thread. I mean, really, why are you in the thread if you actually don't care? Do you also go into ice cream shops, stand in line, and tell the dude that you don't give a **** about ice cream and don't want any? Because that's what you just did here, by posting in this thread.
Because they are talking about how they will not be able to wardec TEST/Goons primarily, because, you know, they accomplish a whole lot when they do.
Reppyk wrote:Xolve wrote:It might actually make you do something more productive then sit on a gate/station in insta-ships whoring onto killmails. Sup sup guys.
There's backstory behind that; try harder next time, and maybe find a ship I didn't lose on purpose. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
254
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
The point isn't that people want to dec TEST/Goons (although some do), but rather that the dec shield will remain alive and well, and just in another form. |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
991
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:The point isn't that people want to dec TEST/Goons (although some do), but rather that the dec shield will remain alive and well, and just in another form.
The problem here is, CCP although they won't admit it, has an interest in the Empire Carebear way of life, if they neglect them too much it will cost them subscriptions from those that actually enjoy mining and running missions... you know those people who are a complete mystery to the people who post here.
On the other hand, CCP also has a really vested interest in NullSec, because neglecting them can summon forth the rage of a few thousand screaming idiots (as seen in the not so distant past) and can result in the 'death slope' of their subscription base.
If you want to be a bastard, and burn everything to the ground; move to Low-Sec its the last bastion of true EvE 'no fucks given' space; and besides CCP has been shitting on that part of the game for years.
Edit: Also- I remember once upon a time, being in Ad0pt and spending 5-10b ISK a week on war dec fees, so its not that you guys don't have the money, its just that you want as many targets as possible for as little as possible (which I can understand) but unfortunately that cookie is being taken away; You will just have to pick your poisons more carefully.
(I also don't remember many pvp alliances in Empire numbering in the multiple thousands- so I don't see how this is a huge deal) Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Eryn Velasquez
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
Troll Gremlin wrote:50m is to much,
No, it's cheap. For a corp it should not take more than 30 minutes, to earn enough to wardec more than 1 opponent.
But still i think, it's wrong to calculate on the membercount, it should depend more on the kills of the members.
If a corp with 1000+ kills on their kb want to dec an R&D or industrial corp with only a handfull on theirs, the price increase should be calculated on the difference between the kills.
This would make it cheaper to wardec corps which fight, and more expensive to dec corps that won't. GÇ£A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.GÇ¥-áGÇò Jean-Jacques Rousseau-á |

Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
146
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 18:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
You know ... I like these changes ... Sure the numbers could be tweaked abit but in general wardec shouldnt cost pennies ...
I especially do love it how the elite "mercs" are crying tears about how the industrial corp they plan to grief can tag their military wing to help without added cost. As they should be able to !
Absolutely marvellous and makes rl-sense. |

Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:31:00 -
[75] - Quote
TEST/Goons take this game way too seriously and send an inordinate amount of time posturing apathy on the forums.
The funny part is how they think spending effort on appearing "not to care" will work. |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
991
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:TEST/Goons take this game way too seriously and send an inordinate amount of time posturing apathy on the forums.
The funny part is how they think spending effort on appearing "not to care" will work.
Oh please let me express my great concern for anything that happens in Empire space, literally anything.
Funny how NPC Corp Alts have a vested interest in TEST or GoonSwarm alliance tags, and any member of those alliances that choose to post something on the forums absolutely must be speaking for the entire alliance. How presumptuous.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
139
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:TEST/Goons take this game way too seriously and send an inordinate amount of time posturing apathy on the forums.
The funny part is how they think spending effort on appearing "not to care" will work. Oh please let me express my great concern for anything that happens in Empire space, literally anything. Funny how NPC Corp Alts have a vested interest in TEST or GoonSwarm alliance tags, and any member of those alliances that choose to post something on the forums absolutely must be speaking for the entire alliance. How presumptuous.
Bro, you're the one who has made 5 out of 16 posts on this page alone in a thread about the future of highsec war dec pricing at the time of my posting. You're the one resorting to keep irrelevant personal attacks and responses to things people never said in an obvious attempt to derail the thread and stir up people to respond to you. Like Psychotic Monk said, if you really don't care as much as you claim to, just stop posting in this thread and let people who still care about war decs to discuss them.
The moar you cry the less you pee |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
991
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 20:51:00 -
[78] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:Bro, you're the one who has made 5 out of 16 posts on this page alone in a thread about the future of highsec war dec pricing at the time of my posting. You're the one resorting to keep irrelevant personal attacks and responses to things people never said in an obvious attempt to derail the thread and stir up people to respond to you. Like Psychotic Monk said, if you really don't care as much as you claim to, just stop posting in this thread and let people who still care about war decs to discuss them.
I'm not trolling, I was pointing out the irony of the Empire Elite PvP types complaining about the cost of wardecing Goons, TEST and other large Nullsec entities when you could simply go to Null yourself and shoot them for free. Then again, if you had the balls to do that, then you would either live in Nullsec or roam there actively and not really pay any attention to the change.
I imagine all the bleating and whining you exude here will be about as effective as your 'Save Jita' project.
Also- Never not rage type Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:31:00 -
[79] - Quote
You dont need a wardec to fight Goonswarm.... You're no daisy...you're no daisy at all! |

Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 22:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
Nobody wants to fight goonswarm at all.
They were using your alliance size as an example of cost scaling for when high sec entities catch on and start to swell in size.. |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
991
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 23:24:00 -
[81] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Nobody wants to fight goonswarm at all.
They were using your alliance size as an example of cost scaling for when high sec entities catch on and start to swell in size..
The never ending decs against our coalition are contradictory to your sentiments...
Also- you make it seem like putting together a 7-9000 man alliance is simple, if its so easy; then why hasn't highsec rallied under one banner yet? Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

SugarFr33
Beyond Heavy Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 23:42:00 -
[82] - Quote
I think the key word in that screenshot is the Initial payment.
Might be a lot to dec goons/ big alliance to start, but if its an ongoing war it might work out cheaper? 
Just saying |

Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 23:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Nobody wants to fight goonswarm at all.
They were using your alliance size as an example of cost scaling for when high sec entities catch on and start to swell in size.. The never ending decs against our coalition are contradictory to your sentiments... Also- you make it seem like putting together a 7-9000 man alliance is simple, if its so easy; then why hasn't highsec rallied under one banner yet?
Firstly the people here have been talking about current costs for decs on sisi which will be capped most likely.
Now, to making a an alliance of 7k people it's really simple. Make alliance with the appropriate skills, have a ton of corps join. Done.!!!
We're not talking an traditional alliance for doing anything other than simply existing to make decs expensive. They'll have zero to do with each other outside that one use. No alliance ops of any kind, may not even ever chat to each other.
But as I said CCP is likely to cap the costs anyhow so it's all a bit meh.
The nobody wants to fight goonswarm was directed to the 'come to 0.0 and fight us' bit that someone said earlier, he'd need to ask someone other than highsec people if that's what he's after as it ain't happening.
No point replying btw, I'm off to sleep but have a good night Test dude. |

Nicholas Tong
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 00:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
Don't wish to presume or anything but isn't the Offending corps wardecc price be in contrast from their number of member to the targets?, the OPs showing us an example which only has 1 member wardeccing the biggest alliances of the game.
I think from preliminary observation this change wouldn't be a bad idea since you have currently a lot of 1, 2 manned corps with the purpose of hunting down others with around 50 defenseless members, not that I'm trying to defend them, just that the concept of a corporation on the meta-gama should fill its purpose of housing multiple players and not just one along with their alts. |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
991
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 02:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Nicholas Tong wrote:Don't wish to presume or anything but isn't the Offending corps wardecc price be in contrast from their number of member to the targets?, the OPs showing us an example which only has 1 member wardeccing the biggest alliances of the game.
I think from preliminary observation this change wouldn't be a bad idea since you have currently a lot of 1, 2 manned corps with the purpose of hunting down others with around 50 defenseless members, not that I'm trying to defend them, just that the concept of a corporation on the meta-gama should fill its purpose of housing multiple players and not just one along with their alts.
Pretty sure I read in a devblog somewhere that the 500k addition per member cost was based on active accounts and not an artificially inflated number. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |

Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 03:04:00 -
[86] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Griefing should be easy, free, and safe to do.
Any changes that add risk, danger, cost, or effort to griefing are bad and should be flamed.
Ur stuffs, I can haz?
Braaaaaaaiiin... |

VegasMirage
Instant Reaction Corp Dec Shield
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 10:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
Goatfather wrote:We should just make one massive merc/war alliance in HS. Push our differences aside if this system actually goes live.
I'm curious what you're criteria would be for this new hi sec merc union. Please expand, if you would. |

Rommell Drako
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming Moar Tears
23
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
I think there are alot of different points that are being argued and being mixed together that need to be seperated.
Point 1 The new cost of war dec is too high. The orginal cost of war decs was 50 mil for the first war, 100 mil for second, 150 for 3rd, etc. The new forumla for war deccing has 50 mil as standard plus 300k per member with a depreciating amount to create a cap.
Formula: (log2.05831 N)^2 * 300000 * N^0.27 where N = number of members.
This has created a curve cap putting the cost (roughly) of deccing a 1k member at 200 mil, 3k members at 350mil, 4k+ at 500mil.
What this means is that the old war dec style of prvters, adopt, moar tears, etc which was the dec 10 large alliances to give plenty of targets to shoot at gave you the cost of deccing 10 alliance (goons, test, AAA, nulli, etc) total cost of 2.75 bil.
With the new cost to war to dec the same alliances would cost (to dec goons, test, AAA, etc) 500mil+500mil+ 470mil, etc... giving you a total of 5 bil to dec the same people. Doubling the cost of the war dec.
(personally i dont care, its easy to adjust and adapt and move on with eve. What makes me question ccps intelligence and their target market of protect people so they dont quit so we keep making money so we can finish our vampire game, is that they claim inferno is a pro war update... yet it doubles the cost of war, and is going to remove vast quanties of players that currently do war...)
Point 2 Come fight us at our home in 00 ***. Yes we could just as easliy fly to your staging systems and fight you there. But we dont have 200 man drake fleets, with 100 man mael alpha fleets, with 2 titan bridges, a capital fleet, and a batphone to PL. We just dont care for the large fights of, shoot primary, pray you dont get shot cuss you will get alphaed, and then the fight is over for you... we prefer the small gang, skill oriented pvp. Also why come to you when we can just kill your 10bil JFs and your 4.2 bil rifters with slave sets in cargo :)
Point 3 high sec under 1 banner This has not been required or even worth it since the costs of war have always been the same. But now with the new costs the people that use to war dec 10 large will now dec 1 large and 9 small to keep their target numbers high enough. (this is all predicted and my personal thoughts, might not be true) Eventually bears will get smart and realize that they can properly dec shield by just all gathering together. make the cost too high and people wont pay for it. (there will probably be 4-10 super large high sec alliances to prevent the idea of dec 1 banner and get to shoot all of high sec)
TLDR Point 1 = new prices double cost of war. Changes will be made, people will adapt. Inferno is not pro war, CCP needs to protect its cash flow... Point 2= Keep saying come to 00, we hope you enjoy your capitals and titan bridges. We all see how alot of the 00 alliances cant fight with out their fcs and huge numbers. I would be shocked and awed (and forced to make a public thread apology) if i ever fought a small group of 00 people that fought well in a small gang and killed me. Point 3= bears get smarter every day. CCP is doing all they can to protect them.
Please argue each point seperatly, i dont want to have to attempt to follow noob / tard / autistic logic |

Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
219
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 17:29:00 -
[89] - Quote
Quote: (personally i dont care, its easy to adjust and adapt and move on with eve. What makes me question ccps intelligence and their target market of protect people so they dont quit so we keep making money so we can finish our vampire game, is that they claim inferno is a pro war update... yet it doubles the cost of war, and is going to remove vast quanties of players that currently do war...)
The vast quantities of players that do war sit on station all day in Jita or another market hub waiting for some idiot to undock. This is not war, it's a gank fest. This is not PvP, it's the same as shooting rats in a level 4 mission in complete safety of a station. This is not EVE, it's some depressing game of sitting in one spot all day.
What CCP needs to do is increase the aggression timers for docking to 15 minutes, then war shall be interesting. (They actually discussed the possibility of doing so to make timers uniform). |

Ashera Yune
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 17:55:00 -
[90] - Quote
The current war mechanics are boring, i think a bit of spicing up is what it needs.
Allow cynos and supercapitals and capitals to work in highsec.
If highsec pvpers want true PVP, they should be given the experience of a nullsec 0.0 hotdrop and 1000 man fleets that will fill up the highsec systems.
Highsec will become the new 0.0, WAR IS EVERYWHERE!!111!!!!11
High pvpers are cowards who use neutral alts who have protection from concord as easy to use scouts and assists. You can't do that anywhere else.
Since the pvp in highsec is less risky, it should be more costly, after all Concord is providing security.
While is other space its is the players that Provide security. |
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