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Tista
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Posted - 2009.04.06 09:37:00 -
[1]
Before this "nerf the RR gang" gets too hectic, the simple solution to RR gangs is a small group of stealth bombers along side your own gang.
Void, lockbreaker bombs, and burst ecm are extremely effective against these gangs of RR battleships.
So with the currect RR gangs being able to scale upwards with their "imba tactics" look into the soon to be revamped bombers, grab urself a couple of corpies, get in stealth bombers, load up your cruise and bombs (soon to be torps and bombs), a couple of ecm bursts, drop your bombs, use that tiny sig radius to get in the middle of the hostile fleet before they take you out, then drop ecm bursts.
The fantastic thing about a RR gang is it's lack of manuverability and speed... if you wanna be really mean you could also try hot dropping a carrier in the middle for bumping giggles.
But back to the main point at hand, stealth bombers ARE the anti christ and will nuke those RR gangs back down.. and even better.. they are stealthed so your foe wont suspect a thing.
;)
Bombers, the way foward.
Tista. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Azver Deroven
Amarr Legion Of The ShiningStar Brotherhood of Legion's
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Posted - 2009.04.06 09:42:00 -
[2]
Much as I apreciate someone trying to give feedback, the mindless flock of forumsheeps and their shaggers arent gonna care, long as they have something to whine about and find an excuse why they're not the no. 1 pwnsausage of the game...
Altho I did like the idea of bombers being the counter and they more or less are, RRBS requires you to stick within bomb radius so idea is great and hotdrop carrier just is good finish for the idea.
Imagine that, teamwork to counter teamwork, Im shocked if someone actually uses this
Anyway, lets hope the 1% of forumwarriors that possess intelligence are the people who read it. ---------------------------------------------------- My views do not represent those of my alliance, corporation or myself. Trully, sometimes I manage to confuse even myself.
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The Tzar
Malicious Intentions The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.06 09:45:00 -
[3]
Nice idea, good use of in game mechanics to solve a combat situation.
Unfortunately as with nearly all the whines/nerfcries it's not about an actual gameplay flaw but people unwilling to try or train new things.
A sandbox is as a sandbox does? __________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________ |
Tista
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Posted - 2009.04.06 09:47:00 -
[4]
Aye, too true about the whiner issue.
As for people actually using bombers in combat situations, they are used already.. just not as widely as people would assume ;) -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.04.06 10:00:00 -
[5]
ECM burst actually is very effective. I stumbled upon ships using it twice just in a few days. Broke my recons lock every time luckily I had sensor booster and could quickly get lock and point back on.
Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
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Nichola Kreed
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Posted - 2009.04.06 10:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: General Coochie ECM burst actually is very effective. I stumbled upon ships using it twice just in a few days. Broke my recons lock every time luckily I had sensor booster and could quickly get lock and point back on.
as long as concord does not mind my ecm burst hurt nerutals, it can be a useful counter. but wait.....
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.06 11:13:00 -
[7]
Noone is going to care about tactics or solutions. Especially if it "forces" you to use something other than the normal hac's or BS's. They are going to whine and whine until ccp caves in as usual and nerfs it to the ground. And yea this is my sig. Real PVP'ers only use f1. |
Kowaii Rabbit
o1nk
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Posted - 2009.04.06 11:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Azver Deroven Much as I apreciate someone trying to give feedback, the mindless flock of forumsheeps and their shaggers arent gonna care, long as they have something to whine about and find an excuse why they're not the no. 1 pwnsausage of the game...
This http://www.ezy-english.com/ |
Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.04.06 11:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tista Before this "nerf the RR gang" gets too hectic, the simple solution to RR gangs is a small group of stealth bombers along side your own gang.
Void, lockbreaker bombs, and burst ecm are extremely effective against these gangs of RR battleships.
So with the currect RR gangs being able to scale upwards with their "imba tactics" look into the soon to be revamped bombers, grab urself a couple of corpies, get in stealth bombers, load up your cruise and bombs (soon to be torps and bombs), a couple of ecm bursts, drop your bombs, use that tiny sig radius to get in the middle of the hostile fleet before they take you out, then drop ecm bursts.
The fantastic thing about a RR gang is it's lack of manuverability and speed... if you wanna be really mean you could also try hot dropping a carrier in the middle for bumping giggles.
But back to the main point at hand, stealth bombers ARE the anti christ and will nuke those RR gangs back down.. and even better.. they are stealthed so your foe wont suspect a thing.
;)
Bombers, the way foward.
Tista.
Post a killmail. You're full of crap. Burst ECM has a low strength and a 30 second cycle time and you can only activate one at a time. Bombs don't prevent you from relocking. RR gangs fit cap boosters and ECCM.
Bombers will instapop to turret guns because they can't maintain traversal and at 30 mil per loss that adds up. That's about what it costs to lose an unrigged RR BS once you factor in insurance.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:09:00 -
[10]
Since, i was expecting atleast 1 sceptic, i'll explain how it works.
Those bombers don't work solo, they work along side a fleet.
The fleet can have ewar, battleships, hacs, dictors, what ever you know? standard fleet right?
now if you have knowledge of a RR fleet you will indeed know that any FC wont engage another fleet without sufficient numbers, so let's say it's 50 vs 50.. now the fleet with the bombers will gain enough of an advantage from those bombs and ecm bursts to win the battle, so what if you lose a couple of bombers in the fight, they are designed to be cost efficient counter measures to hostile ops.
Not only that but the ecm burst combined with bombs and cap neuting will disrupt a hostile fleet quite a large amount, considering that in a RR fleet, no one fits their own reps (and if they do they gimp their fit anyway) the allied fleet will have a huge advantage.
In combat it's not about winning through sheer power, and winning because of being 300% better than your opponent, because those numbers and figures are next to impossible to obtain. In fleet combat it's about having that advantage over your opponent and the ability to execute your tactics in the most efficient and self advantagious way.
So, by having a small group of highly effective bombers in a fleet you instantly gain a good advantage over your opponent, they are also immune to ewar as they require no lock, and are small enough that a hostile RR gang will be incapable of locking them, if you have a lockbreaker bomb going off every few seconds as well as ecm bursts any battleship will struggle, even with 5 eccm fitted (unlikely in a RR gang again).
ever seen 300?
Yes, poor example indeed as it's fantasy but they used tactics over sheer brute force, as much of a fantasy that film was it was indeed a very good example of how not having numbers but having that slight advantage over your foe can win the day.
Tista. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tista Since, i was expecting atleast 1 sceptic, i'll explain how it works.
Those bombers don't work solo, they work along side a fleet.
The fleet can have ewar, battleships, hacs, dictors, what ever you know? standard fleet right?
now if you have knowledge of a RR fleet you will indeed know that any FC wont engage another fleet without sufficient numbers, so let's say it's 50 vs 50.. now the fleet with the bombers will gain enough of an advantage from those bombs and ecm bursts to win the battle, so what if you lose a couple of bombers in the fight, they are designed to be cost efficient counter measures to hostile ops.
Not only that but the ecm burst combined with bombs and cap neuting will disrupt a hostile fleet quite a large amount, considering that in a RR fleet, no one fits their own reps (and if they do they gimp their fit anyway) the allied fleet will have a huge advantage.
In combat it's not about winning through sheer power, and winning because of being 300% better than your opponent, because those numbers and figures are next to impossible to obtain. In fleet combat it's about having that advantage over your opponent and the ability to execute your tactics in the most efficient and self advantagious way.
So, by having a small group of highly effective bombers in a fleet you instantly gain a good advantage over your opponent, they are also immune to ewar as they require no lock, and are small enough that a hostile RR gang will be incapable of locking them, if you have a lockbreaker bomb going off every few seconds as well as ecm bursts any battleship will struggle, even with 5 eccm fitted (unlikely in a RR gang again).
ever seen 300?
Yes, poor example indeed as it's fantasy but they used tactics over sheer brute force, as much of a fantasy that film was it was indeed a very good example of how not having numbers but having that slight advantage over your foe can win the day.
Tista.
You're an idiot.
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Originally by: Tista Since, i was expecting atleast 1 sceptic, i'll explain how it works.
Those bombers don't work solo, they work along side a fleet.
The fleet can have ewar, battleships, hacs, dictors, what ever you know? standard fleet right?
now if you have knowledge of a RR fleet you will indeed know that any FC wont engage another fleet without sufficient numbers, so let's say it's 50 vs 50.. now the fleet with the bombers will gain enough of an advantage from those bombs and ecm bursts to win the battle, so what if you lose a couple of bombers in the fight, they are designed to be cost efficient counter measures to hostile ops.
Not only that but the ecm burst combined with bombs and cap neuting will disrupt a hostile fleet quite a large amount, considering that in a RR fleet, no one fits their own reps (and if they do they gimp their fit anyway) the allied fleet will have a huge advantage.
In combat it's not about winning through sheer power, and winning because of being 300% better than your opponent, because those numbers and figures are next to impossible to obtain. In fleet combat it's about having that advantage over your opponent and the ability to execute your tactics in the most efficient and self advantagious way.
So, by having a small group of highly effective bombers in a fleet you instantly gain a good advantage over your opponent, they are also immune to ewar as they require no lock, and are small enough that a hostile RR gang will be incapable of locking them, if you have a lockbreaker bomb going off every few seconds as well as ecm bursts any battleship will struggle, even with 5 eccm fitted (unlikely in a RR gang again).
ever seen 300?
Yes, poor example indeed as it's fantasy but they used tactics over sheer brute force, as much of a fantasy that film was it was indeed a very good example of how not having numbers but having that slight advantage over your foe can win the day.
Tista.
You're an idiot.
May I join you with your nice and refined manners? I really appreciate people who can have a discussion about a topic without resorting to cheap insults. I think I just found my fellow white knight of chivalry...
Now, on topic: RR BS gangs are beatable, and as was already mentioned: there are counters to those tactics. Also, if you want to run from a RR BS gang, you can. Plated and trimarked BS that need to be within 7km of each other? It also screams for a DD or 2, because they won't warp anywhere in time. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nichola Kreed
Originally by: General Coochie ECM burst actually is very effective. I stumbled upon ships using it twice just in a few days. Broke my recons lock every time luckily I had sensor booster and could quickly get lock and point back on.
as long as concord does not mind my ecm burst hurt nerutals, it can be a useful counter. but wait.....
High sec sucks anyway so who cares
Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:10:00 -
[14]
While it sounds good I don't see the plan working.
Reload time on bombs is several minutes (can't check the time atm). You would needed a very large number of Bombers to do the bombing. You would have to split them up into Lockbreaker and cap drain bomb groups. Each bomber can only carry 3 bombs.
I think what you would end up doing is reducing your gangs DPS to the point where your opponents disrupted RRing won't matter. On the flip side if you had enough people to pull this off then you could simply put them in DPS ships and beat the RR. If you have a high enough Alpha, and switch targets effectivly enough, you would take them down.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:12:00 -
[15]
You people are getting my beloved and precious Falcon nerfed, so: Nerf the RR gang just because.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Tista
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ashina Sito While it sounds good I don't see the plan working.
Reload time on bombs is several minutes (can't check the time atm). You would needed a very large number of Bombers to do the bombing. You would have to split them up into Lockbreaker and cap drain bomb groups. Each bomber can only carry 3 bombs.
I think what you would end up doing is reducing your gangs DPS to the point where your opponents disrupted RRing won't matter. On the flip side if you had enough people to pull this off then you could simply put them in DPS ships and beat the RR. If you have a high enough Alpha, and switch targets effectivly enough, you would take them down.
It's a tactic for about 3-6 bombers really, and it's based around a larger fleet, making use of what ever tactic you can.. i mean.. getting 50 RRBS vs 50 RRBS is boring as sin.. but add some tactic into it.. and it becomes way more interesting:)
you dont always need void bombs either, just lock breakers and ecm bursts.. they have a nasty effect on RR battleships ;) -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2009.04.06 17:06:00 -
[17]
Having to prepare specifically for a particular event or develop a counter is obviously considered overrated by the devs (see flacon). Just nerf RR gangs to bring them in line with this philosophy.
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Remmon
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.06 17:12:00 -
[18]
So say 5 stealth bombers, 5 lockbreaker bombs and whatever ECM bursts the bombers can drop. How big are the odds of breaking the locks of every single battleship in that gang? That would give your fleet about 10 seconds to pop a couple of them. And it would give you about 10 seconds to GTFO and cloak again, until you're ready for the next attack.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.04.06 17:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Remmon So say 5 stealth bombers, 5 lockbreaker bombs and whatever ECM bursts the bombers can drop. How big are the odds of breaking the locks of every single battleship in that gang? That would give your fleet about 10 seconds to pop a couple of them. And it would give you about 10 seconds to GTFO and cloak again, until you're ready for the next attack.
Well, that is all down to experience and the pilots skill, and the luck of the draw, either way disrupting a whole fleet witha few ships is enough to win you the fight. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.04.06 17:42:00 -
[20]
yea that sounds great!!!
Oh wai-! I cant use bombs in lowsec
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Azver Deroven
Amarr Legion Of The ShiningStar Brotherhood of Legion's
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Posted - 2009.04.06 19:53:00 -
[21]
And so comes the mindless flock of the forumsheep.
Instead of moaning how RRBS gangs ruin it and how this is invalid counter because of low jamstrenght, maybe sugest it should be higher?
Also, cant one in theory fly suicidal rifter in the gang with ECM burst? Mmmm, just my 2 cents.
But its always easier to moan about something than work your way around it, just look america's car industry. ---------------------------------------------------- My views do not represent those of my alliance, corporation or myself. Trully, sometimes I manage to confuse even myself.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2009.04.06 22:44:00 -
[22]
Lowsec.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:28:00 -
[23]
When bombs are actually allowed outside of 0.0, this will become a legitimate post. Until then, try remembering that there is more to EVE than 0.0. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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daisy dook
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Azver Deroven And so comes the mindless flock of the forumsheep.
Instead of moaning how RRBS gangs ruin it and how this is invalid counter because of low jamstrenght, maybe sugest it should be higher?
Also, cant one in theory fly suicidal rifter in the gang with ECM burst? Mmmm, just my 2 cents.
But its always easier to moan about something than work your way around it, just look america's car industry.
If your going to suicide, you might as well do it in style...
I hear the Falcon will be this seasons coffin chic
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Azver Deroven
Amarr Legion Of The ShiningStar Brotherhood of Legion's
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Posted - 2009.04.06 23:52:00 -
[25]
I'll keep that in mind, but kitsune with MWD flying trough and firing off an ECM burst before burning away as fast it can could get the job done in theory, altho it only does 2,7km/s so we might want to look for ECM bursting interceptors. Certainly could be intresting job description, dont you think? ---------------------------------------------------- My views do not represent those of my alliance, corporation or myself. Trully, sometimes I manage to confuse even myself.
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Neyro7830
Gallente The 5th Freedom Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.07 00:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Azver Deroven ECM bursting interceptors
I think I like you. Oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer |
Warrio
Southern Cross Incorporated Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.07 01:26:00 -
[27]
There seems to be an elephant in the room... and it's using ECM drones. sXe |
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