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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
76
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Posted - 2011.11.15 20:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
The only reason this persists is CCP wants people to buy alts. However, for every alt they sell with their command links there are a bunch of people who think this sucks that we have to dual box alts in order to be competitive in this game. Now with t2 command links this will really suck for people who don't like to dual box alts.
And for those who say you need to scan down the boosters give me a break. Even if you were to redirect your attention from the pvp fight to try to start scanning the alt out, the alt boosters are aligned ready to warp out as soon as you show up on grid.
Increasing these bonuses without forcing the ships to at least be on grid is obviously a bad direction for the game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
76
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Posted - 2011.11.15 20:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote: When solo, I ....with a loki booster alt. ..
 Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
76
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Posted - 2011.11.16 15:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mag's wrote:It's a no thank you, from me.
If someone has a pos up, they took the time to do exactly that. Why shouldn't they then reap the benefits of this later in fights.
Also they fixed tech 3, just because you can't be arsed to probe them down is your problem and not the problem of the tech 3 ships, or gang links. They fitted to be harder to probe, you need to fit to find them. Sounds like balance to me.
It's not as if this isn't open for all. Why do you lot always insist this game be dumbed down and made so much easier?
It seems we never agree. 
You think it would dumb the game down to require booster ships on the battle grid? I think that is a very hard case to make.
Lets say you have an idiot cousin. You decide to put him in a command ship or booster t3. Which do you think would be easier for this dumb relative:
1) to have to fly the ship on the grid where the battle is taking place or 2) To have him sit at a pos or in a safe spot aligned out to warp if anyone shows up on a 200k dscan?
Please answer that.
Currenlty flying these booster ships where you don't even have to be on grid is so boring and easy no one would actually think of doing that with anything other than an alt you are multiboxing.
There is a difference between dumbing the game down and making it more tedious. Forcing people to multibox alts simply makes the game tedious and destroys any small semblance of immersion the game has.
Sure some people are so concerned about looking like a hero on the killboards that they will suffer through this immersion breaking tedium, but that is not good for the game. (these boosting ships don't show up on the killmail - which they should) Those who don't want eve to be a chore will quickly find that it is no longer for them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
77
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Posted - 2011.11.17 14:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Cearain wrote:It seems we never agree.  You think it would dumb the game down to require booster ships on the battle grid? I think that is a very hard case to make. We may agree on something in the future, who knows.  Rather than asking questions 1 & 2, you need to ask the correct ones. 1. Should someone be able to fit a tech 3 to work off grid? 2. Should a corp gain the benefits from a pos they took the time to install? 3. Do all these options have a counter and are they open to all?.......
You did not answer my questions so I will take it you admit it does not dumb down the game to require link ships to be on grid. In fact its pretty brainless when they are not on grid at a safe. However I will still answer yours because they are easy.
1) It can work but it's work should not directly influence a battle that is happening on grid. 2) Yes and I am not suggesting we remove every reason to build a pos. 3) Yes it has a counter. The counter is the immersion breaking GÇ£eve is a choreGÇ¥ option of dragging an alt around yourself and multiboxing your combat so you can compete. That option sucks. The other GÇ£countersGÇ¥ don't work well as explained above.
Mag's wrote: You lot are basically saying: "We don't want to be bothered with finding tech3 or fitting/equipping ourselves for the task. Therefore we think CCP should nerf it."
No I am saying everyone seems to agree that no one really uses these ships with their main. People who use them are multi-boxing. I am saying that, for me and many others, that completely breaks the immersion of this game and makes it more of a chore than fun.
CCP is now boosting these alts with new tech 2 links wich will make a bad situation worse, for everyone who just wants to have some fun with eve and not treat it as a job. After the bonuses people who do not have these alts will simply not be competitive and so will not engage in pvp.
Yes I realize that ccp likely thinks it would be great to force everyone who wants to be competitive to pay for an additional account and multibox pvp. However, I think this is very short sighted. I for one refuse to do this in pvp. Now that these links are so damn powerful I may not be able to pvp any longer at least not solo like I normally do.
Moreover I bet allot of people who keep dragging these alts around will get tired of eve as well. Sure not all of them. There are a few in this game that are such drones they would do anything regardless of how tiresome and lame. But there will be more than a few who get sick of it . Yet they will still realize that if they donGÇÖt others will have a huge advantage in pvp and therefore they will burn out.
Mag's wrote:[ Oh and this idea will make it more tedious, not less. (That was a weak argument to bring tbh) You think flying ships on grid during a pvp battle is tedious?? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
77
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Posted - 2011.11.17 21:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Cearain wrote: at least not solo like I normally do. So it is working as intended then?
If they intend to make eve a game that can't be played unless you are multi-boxing alts then yes its working as intended.
Is that good for the game? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
77
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Posted - 2011.11.17 23:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Cearain wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Cearain wrote: at least not solo like I normally do. So it is working as intended then? If they intend to make eve a game that can't be played unless you are multi-boxing alts then yes its working as intended. Is that good for the game? I am just saying that CCP (via player feedback) has decided that group play is better than solo play.
What feedback are you refering to? If the players already prefered group play why would CCP need to give huge isk incentives to join in groups e.g., incursions? Its not based on what players want its based on what ccp wants. Many players don't look to eve as their social medium and ccp is trying to change that. CCP want more of players lives invested in the game. It's understandable from a business perspective.
But lets assuming they "intend" to drive out all the solo players. Making it so you are no longer solo because you have an alt in a booster ship is unlikely to be what they are intending. (Although I do think they may intend to try to get everyone to feel they must have alt accounts to play so that they can make more money. I addressed this earlier in the thread and still believe such a view is short sighted. Its the sort of approach a company that wants to sell a game would take not one that hopes to have a game long term.)
Zircon Dasher wrote: They consistantly give carrots to activities and tactics that require 2+ characters by granting bonuses or positive scaling mechanics. CCP does not, however, have an ingame mechanism to filter out alt characters from real characters (bad terminology but you get my drift). Nor do I think that CCP would want to have such a mechanism even if it was possible. I know a lot of players who wouldn't that is for sure.
So long as efficiency is greater by bringing more characters (whether more people are at screens or not) alt use will increase.
Are multiple players engaged in activity cooperatively good for the game? CCP and many players seem to think so.
Is bypassing the need for friends via the alt mechanics good for the game? Any rule to the contrary would be un-enforceable so the point is moot imo.
Well this particular situation is pretty clearly just for alts. Or do you know people who like to sit their main at a pos giving their fleet a boost and not doing anything else? No one seems to be stepping up and saying that doing that is a very important part of their main's gameplay. I'm sure such people exist, but are there numbers great enough to justify losing the number of people who thinks it sucks that you have to mess around with multiple accounts in order to play this game competitively? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
78
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote: This sounds like a complaint against needing a gangbooster even as a "solo" player. To that degree it does not matter if that boosting is done by a POS alt or by an ongrid (because ongrid does not mean actually vulnerable) player/alt..
I'm not sure what you mean. On grid does indeed mean actually vulnerable.
Zircon Dasher wrote: You hit the nail on the head with the complaint about :effort: involved in dragging an alt around for boosting. That effort will be even greater if it has to be ongrid (which is why people dont like such a change... especially when splitting up a gang/fleet across many grids) which means that much more frustration. Unfortunately, as you yourself point out, many people see gangboosters as "necessary" to be competative. So people wont stop using them, they will just be bitter about how much more effort it takes with them being on grid.
Or they stop bothering to PVP in small gangs completely.
There is a difference between the immersion breaking tedious "effort" of multi boxing alts with you werever you go and the "effort" you need to make when you are on the grid of a pvp battle. The former is tedious effort the latter is fun.
I agree that command ships are powerful enough to still be used even if they needed to be on grid. Actually I think they would actually be balanced against the t3s, if booster ships had to be on grid because now there is little point in even training them. Its just that instead of being a ship that people always fly with an alt they would be flown by peoples main characters.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
78
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Cearain wrote:You did not answer my questions so I will take it you admit it does not dumb down the game to require link ships to be on grid. It was a loaded question and if he's dumb, it really makes no difference where he is, he'll still diaf horribly. Cearain wrote:1) It can work but it's work should not directly influence a battle that is happening on grid. 2) Yes and I am not suggesting we remove every reason to build a pos. 3) Yes it has a counter. The counter is the immersion breaking GÇ£eve is a choreGÇ¥ option of dragging an alt around yourself and multiboxing your combat so you can compete. That option sucks. The other GÇ£countersGÇ¥ don't work well as explained above. So they all have counters, it's just back to the 'we can't be arsed' argument.
If the counter to this is - "well get your own army of alts to multibox" then that is crap.
Notice no one is denying that you will need these booster alts to be competitive after the t2 links hit the market.
Now the only question is how long will it take before people realize that eve is a game that in order to play it you must invest in alts that you multibox around the universe?
I can tell you if I knew eve was going to be a game that you *had* to multi box alt accounts to be competitive I never would have installed it. Does ccp really want the game to get this reputation?
Like I said the only reason they would want this is to get the short term burst of new accounts so that they can demonstrate numbers to sell the game. But in the long run this sort of thing will ruin the game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
79
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Damassys Kadesh wrote:+1 to OP
Makes no sense that you can boost from 100% safety. You're gang should be assembled in order to receive gang bonuses.
I'd be totally satisfied if it was completely axed, but a variation (and more dev work) to this could be that off-grid boosting is nerfed to something like 20% of full value, and stays full value when the booster is on-grid. I think that would be an excellent compromise. Maybe make one of the skills increase the effectiveness of gang links accross distances to allow it to get above 20% but not too much higher. I think the incentive should be to get the pilot to have a reason to be on grid and in the battle with bonuses instead of just being 100% immune and safe while contributing to the fight.
Personally I don't see the reason to have him be 100% safe and contributing to the fight at all. I just don't think its a good idea to force people to multibox alts. It makes the game less fun. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
79
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Willl Adama wrote:I don't understand why people are complaining about this, it's not like it's impossible to kill offgrid boosters unless they are in a pos, in which case it's a matter of the residents of a system having a slight advantage, which is fine..
If the t3 ship is already aligned and using an afterburner the pilot would have to be afk to get caught. Meanwhile the gang that is uselessly trying to chase the booster ship is short at least one pilot that should be on grid during the fight.
The advantage will not be slight once t2 links are out. People who do not use these alts will not be able to compete.
Willl Adama wrote: Limiting boosting to ongrid will make managing fleet hierachy a nightmare with the current game mechanics, as you will lose bonusses (potentially for the entire fleet) whenever a commander of some sort dies or is forced to leave grid for some reason,
It won't be a nightmare. It will of course hurt the fleet if a booster needs to leave grid or dies - but that is expected right?
Willl Adama wrote: and it'll also screw up if you have to split your fleet up to fight in several places at once. ..
Even now if they are fighting in different systems there is no bonus.
Willl Adama wrote: The people who think fitting command t3s with buffer and weapons is a good idea are just plain wrong. It will be useless and outperformed by a drake, and also only have 1 link, and be overpriced (noone would ever use that subsystem on a t3 again). Commandships, however, are meant to be on the field - I wouldn't mind if those were buffed in order to be doing the job better than offgrid t3s . Maybe switch the bonusses so the commandships give a bigger bonus that T3s. Or make some kind of mechanic that enhances Command bonusses for a command ships if they are on grid, so it'll have the role intended.
I don't think people are saying t3s should be used on grid as command ships. I think command ships should be used on grid as command ships. Its not like t3s will become completely useless if they are no longer the ship everyone sits their booster alts in. If this in fact will be a significant hit to those who do t3 industry that would just prove that this is getting ridiculous. I would be in favor of buffing command ships but I'm not sure increases the command bonuses is how to do it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
80
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Posted - 2011.11.22 19:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Cearain wrote:If the t3 ship is already aligned and using an afterburner the pilot would have to be afk to get caught. Meanwhile the gang that is uselessly trying to chase the booster ship is short at least one pilot that should be on grid during the fight.
The advantage will not be slight once t2 links are out. People who do not use these alts will not be able to compete. Yet more lazy excuses and ' can't be bothered' arguments. If they don't bring a booster, then isn't that simply bad planning? Bring a booster and compete, simple. Also, everyone has the ability to gain the same advantage with T2 links. 
You and I just disagree on whether Eve should require people to multibox alts if they want to pvp.
Thats what all this comes down to.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
81
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Posted - 2011.11.23 02:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jax Slizard wrote:The way this has been going:
A:Off-grid gangboosters are bad! They can't be hurt! Put them on grid.
B: Yes they can, just scan them down! Leave them alone.
A: But you can't actually catch an aligned t3 even if you can scan them, so you are just wasting a pilots time chasing them.
B: You're just lazy.
...
FYP. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
81
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Posted - 2011.11.23 14:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:Bad idea, it allowes a solo pilot or a smaller gang to engage a larger group and still be able to win the fight.
What do you mean solo? No one takes these booster ships into combat solo. They are almost exclusively used by an alt.
Oh do you mean solo because the killmails don't show the booster alt? So your killboard looks like you fought solo but really you had what ever ship gets the killmail plus a t3 cruiser helping? Is that what you mean? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
81
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Posted - 2011.11.23 14:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Are you required to have a Falcon alt, too, in order to be competative?
Or may be another damage dealer? You know, dual-boxing 2 battleships isn't that hard.
Or a cloaked tracking-disrupting pillgrim? Or logistic ship?
Some should better deal with the fact that bringing in another ship is always beneficial. It's another story whether on- or off-grid boosting is Ok - just don't bring irrelevant facts to the discussion.
Not all falcons pilots are alts. If people want to try to dual box several ships while they are on grid they can go ahead. Some can do it, but many will just hand out easy kills for people who are focused on one character.
Dual boxing 2 battleships on a combat grid may not be that hard if you are are in a blob but if you are in a tough small gang fight its pretty hard. But again go ahead and do that if you want. I have no problem with people bringing many ships *on grid*.
Tracking disrupter pilgrim to ***** killmails? Go ahead. It will be on grid and therefore you will have to manage it much closer than a t3 booster.
As far as logistics I will agree those mechanics need looking at as well. But at least they show up on grid.
One important difference is at least you can learn the people/corps who are always going to bring the falcon, or the logi in on grid. So you can get burned once but then you know. The next time you can know what they are going to do and prepare for it.
You likely won't even know about the t3 booster alt, and even if you did figure it out, there is nothing you can do about it - other than start multiboxing alts yourself. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
88
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Posted - 2011.12.01 18:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
I will admit that I like the extra layer of complexity that booster ships can provide.
What if they said boosters basically provide a mechanical means to what a crew could provide. So you could buy crew members for your ship according to the different bonuses links give. The minmatar crew would give the bonuses of the skirmish warfare links a different crew member would be required for each bonus, and you could only have that type of crew working together. You don't need to have the whole crew though just for the bonuses you want.
Also since the crew members provide the bonus that you otherwise get from the boosters you can't add them together.
This way people like me and others who hate the idea of dragging an alt around everywhere could simply by crew members which provide the same bonuses.
The crew members would of course cost isk. I suppose you could set up academies or something on planets through pi in order to train them to different levels.
You could keep your t3 alts as long as others who don't want alts can still compete.
Edit: crew members would be destroyed or drop just like other modules in your ship Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
88
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Posted - 2011.12.02 00:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Derth Ramir wrote:You people do realize that majority of people that do use t3 gang links operate in small gangs. All your proposal does is promotes blobs and makes solo/small gang pvp even less viable.
They are not used solo.
There is no reason to think they are used by small groups more than large groups.
The proposal just makes it so you do not need to multibox an alt t3 with gang links to be competitive.
But like I said before if there were a way to give the bonuses and allow others who do not want to multibox alts a way to be competitive I wouldn't mind so much.
I will admit that I like the extra layer of complexity that booster ships can provide.
What if they said boosters basically provide a mechanical means to what a crew could provide. So you could buy crew members for your ship according to the different bonuses links give. The minmatar crew would give the bonuses of the skirmish warfare links a different crew member would be required for each bonus, and you could only have that type of crew working together. You don't need to have the whole crew though just for the bonuses you want.
Also since the crew members provide the bonus that you otherwise get from the boosters you can't add them together.
This way people like me and others who hate the idea of dragging an alt around everywhere could simply by crew members which provide the same bonuses.
The crew members would of course cost isk. I suppose you could set up academies or something on planets through pi in order to train them to different levels.
You could keep your t3 alts as long as others who don't want alts can still compete.
Crew members would be destroyed or drop just like other modules in your ship
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
98
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Posted - 2011.12.19 17:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:I have to say that I find off grid boosting lame (even though I enjoy Will Adama's PvP videos and the fact that he doesn't hide that he uses off grid T3 gang links). The boosts that these ships give are clearly profound and to be able to use them in relative safety is baad mmkay. ...
Yeah it's bad.
The question ccp needs to address is whether this blatant attempt to go after alt accounts is going to outweigh their desire to make the eve a long term good quality game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
104
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Posted - 2011.12.23 15:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Andski wrote:Cearain wrote:They are not used solo. Actually, yes, they are...
Really you see people flying t3 gang link ships solo? I think it would be kind of silly to fly that without another ship that they give the bonuses to but whatever you may still see it. How does that work for them?
You know if they are giving the bonuses to another ship, that is 2 ships right? To me solo means 1.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
104
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Posted - 2011.12.23 15:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Andski wrote:You do not need to run a T3 gang link alt to be competitive, believe it or not Guess that depends on where and how one operates. Try going up against a boosted Hurricane in your unboosted ditto and see how well you fare .. he'll have longer scram, higher speed, lower sig and more EHP than you can ever achieve "alone". But for a gank on a gate/undock or a bait/trap it does indeed make little difference.
Its just a difference in the type of pvp we do and what he does. I'm not saying one is better or worse but its definitely different.
For solo and small scale pvpers it makes a big difference. In fact I would almost say you practically throwing ships away if you don't have a booster alt.
Now with the t2 mods I'm training my alt. But the thing is eve is not going to be as fun when I am forced to do things like drag alts around with me. By forcing this down everyones throat people are more likely to get tired of eve and unsub altogether.
Short term gain by making people get booster alts = long term loss because eve is no longer as fun.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
104
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Posted - 2011.12.23 17:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Andski wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:After 8 pages of posts it is blatantly clear that the only people who don't want this change are the ones that abuse this mechanic already. Whereas the only people that do want this change are likely upset that they lost their 1v1 in Rancer or whatever because the other pilot was ~dishonourable~ with an off-grid T3 link ship. It has nothing to do with the other pilot simply being more competent, that's for sure!
What are you talking about honor? There is nothing dishonorable about using t3 boosters I don't recall anyone saying there was. Nice attempt at a strawman. 
Lots of people prefer not to have to drag a neutral alt everywhere they go in order to pvp. It has to do with wanting to have fun in the game as opposed to the game being a chore.
Some people think eve is such "serious business" they don't understand that. Perhaps that is why you missed a major point of this proposal. I don't know.
The only thing I can say is you are deliberately skipping the reasons people actually give for wanting this proposal and creating strawmen.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
104
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Posted - 2011.12.23 17:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Andski wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Andski wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:After 8 pages of posts it is blatantly clear that the only people who don't want this change are the ones that abuse this mechanic already. Whereas the only people that do want this change are likely upset that they lost their 1v1 in Rancer or whatever because the other pilot was ~dishonourable~ with an off-grid T3 link ship. It has nothing to do with the other pilot simply being more competent, that's for sure! No...it has to do with immunity from the risk vs reward scale that EvE is supposed to have. Overwhelm them with superior numbers, bait them next door, or deny them a fight. If you're that worried upset you can't get a killmail on some chucklefuck in a linkship (because you're not equipped to probe it down, or you don't want to bubble its POS, w/e) then I don't know what to say.
This is your serious business nulls sec mindset. "deny them a fight" great. You know lots of people like to pvp in this game. Denying them a fight also denies you a fight. Signing on with no fights is just as boring for me as it is for them. Fights where you are just camping gates/setting bait and blob traps, and winning with overwhelming numbers is boring too. Do you really still get any sort of thrill from that?
The thing is you play the game much different than lots of other people interested in this topic. Your strategy and null sec sov strategy in general often boils down to doing things that make it so the enemy no longer wants to log on anymore. The problem is those tactics often involve *you* doing things that are eyestabbingly boring as well. ItGÇÖs a matter of who can out-bore the other side. The side that "wants it more" read "takes internet spaceships more seriously" wins.
In chess there used to be no time limits. And sometimes people would just take hours to make a move. And sometimes it took so long the other guy just couldn't stand it and left. This actually had a name. It was called GÇ£out sittingGÇ¥ your opponent. Well thatGÇÖs the way I and allot of others see sov war in eve. How long are you going to sit camping that gate or that station?
You and likely many people who play the game like you are simply out of touch with the other people who will say "yeah this is boring/a chore I will stop playing." They just donGÇÖt care as much as you do. If the game is boring or a chore they will do other things with their time.
Anyway none of this has much to do with the proposal. (other than to point out the solutions you think of, are not really going to work for people who arenGÇÖt super serious about internet spaceships) If booster ships have to be on grid you can still use your strategy of outboring the other side. But on the other hand people aren't super serious internet politicians and sign in to have fun fights will get a benefit. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
104
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 19:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andski wrote:Because denying them a fight was the only option I proposed
I also addressed your suggestions of overwhelming them with superior numbers and bait and ganking them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
104
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 19:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Andski wrote:"who says I need to use tactics, tactics are for the boring sov nullsec blobbers"
Yep your right. Thats what I said.  Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
245
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Posted - 2012.02.03 15:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Is CCP changing these mechanics? It would be nice if they would at least consider this change. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
284
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 20:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:I like this idea, but I think theres some compromise needed. People pay for alt accounts just to run booster on them. They invested billions in them, either in plex or char bazaar. You cant just take it away from them.
I would make it like that: leave boosters as they are (eventually nerf a little if needed - debatable), but increase their effectiveness by 100% if on grid.
I think this is the main reason why we won't see the change. CCP is very happy that people are obligated to create these alt accounts to be competitive in this game. I think they probably see all the alts that have been created for this purpose.
What they miss is number of people who tend to lose interest in eve because they think dual boxing alts, sucks and yet increasingly you must have these alts to be competitive eve.
Again I think if they gave us crews that we could fill our ships with that would give us the same boosts as the boosters give (no they wouldn't combine with boosters) I think we would have a solution. You could either pay isk for the crew in your ship or you could carry around your booster alt. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
290
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 19:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Mechael wrote:Cearain wrote:Tekashi Kovacs wrote:I like this idea, but I think theres some compromise needed. People pay for alt accounts just to run booster on them. They invested billions in them, either in plex or char bazaar. You cant just take it away from them.
I would make it like that: leave boosters as they are (eventually nerf a little if needed - debatable), but increase their effectiveness by 100% if on grid. I think this is the main reason why we won't see the change. CCP is very happy that people are obligated to create these alt accounts to be competitive in this game. I think they probably see all the alts that have been created for this purpose. What they miss is number of people who tend to lose interest in eve because they think dual boxing alts, sucks and yet increasingly you must have these alts to be competitive eve. Again I think if they gave us crews that we could fill our ships with that would give us the same boosts as the boosters give (no they wouldn't combine with boosters) I think we would have a solution. You could either pay isk for the crew in your ship or you could carry around your booster alt. Please don't sully the thread with ideas about crews. When I first started playing, capsuleers flew all of their ships solo. At some point, this changed, and it's not a change for the better. It belongs in a different thread. Leadership boosts on grid only, please. Crews were always there in some form or another. I have been playing since launch and I recall from the beginning asking if there were crews in the ships and having an answer of yes from multiple sources. Either way...while I agree that the "crew" discussion is for another thread I do think he is on to something with his idea. Although if crews were introduced and the buff of a crew and fleet booster didn't stack...what would be the point of having a fleet booster at all?
Crews would cost isk and possibly be destroyed just like any other mod. An off grid fleet booster typically won't be destroyed.
It doesn't have to be crews it could be some other form of mods. So its not sidetracking to crews in particular. Its just that crews seem an obvious choice since they can be racial just like the bonuses.
The thing is I agree that fleet boosters are nice in that they do give you more complexity in how you fit your ships. The big problem from my perspective is that I have to now start dual boxing an alt if I want to be competitive. Doing that would make the game allot less fun. If there were some way to buy some mod or crew with these same bonuses so I didn't have to drag an alt in a loki everywhere I would do that. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 21:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:CCP benefits from having off-grid boosting, players buy another account to pvp with a dps, logi, etc ship while leaving less attention for a offgrid boosting ship for the other account.
Offgrid boosting encourages players to make more characters and more accounts to increase efficiency without having to double the workload of focusing on more things at once, since you can pretty much leave the off-grid booster afk at a pos and focus on your combat character.
Your change is very unlikely to happen.
I agree this is probably the view they have. But its certainly a myopic one.
"EVE online: don't press undock unless you have your dual box alt accounts running!"
Thats pretty much where we are. I am seeing allot of these boosters in faction war. They are fast becoming a requirement.
I have had fights where they had the skirmish links plus a sensor damp making it so I was unable to even *target* them the whole "fight".
The thing is no one likes them. They say they had to get them because others had them. I'm sure most people who run with them would be very happy to not have to do that anymore. Its a real drag on the game as a whole. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:i think on grid can be good but refund me the 5b spent on my alt or give me the sp back
The longer they delay in correcting this, the more painful it will be.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 15:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dooblay Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
305
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 14:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:I can agree it needs fixing, but what else can solo players do? I mean shall we say you should fix the blob? its very hard for solo players in eve due to local, intel, blobs, gangs etc. So we got to have some advantage, right?
But yes i agree its not right for large gangs as such. Those nice loki boosters sat in a POS
So i suggest
Allow it for small gangs up to 5 people in fleet anything more its grid only Do not allow if the booster is in a POS - AT ALL
It is killing solo.
When you are flying with a booster alt in your fleet you are not solo. There are a few places I don't eve try to get any fights anymore because there will be super charged hookbill orbitting me at 30k sensor damping me so I can't even lock it, even though I am in a cruiser. Its ridiculous enough to make fine with not signing in.
There is no decent way for a solo pilot to combat that.
BTW I am finding allot of great solo fights in faction war doing plexes (once you learn how to avoid those with the booster alts.) You may want to give it a try.
That said if they want to give crews that give the same exact bonuses as a maxed out booster alts but would be destroyed like other mods, I wouldn't mind. It would be a way that people who don't like flying with alts can still be competitive solo and wouldn't nerf the booster alts.
The booster alts would be the cheaper option in the long run. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
321
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Posted - 2012.04.13 15:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am happy that they posed the question at Fanfest and CCP responded favorably in that they want gang links on grid as well. I can't wait to start popping me some command ships!
I missed this. Where/when did this come up?
It seems CCP is reading what the players want. I am glad to hear it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
493
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Any csm interested in this?
It is especially lame for the small scale pvp we get in faction war. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
516
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:paritybit wrote:Gang links should only apply to the grid where they are active.
Off-grid gang links these days are pretty popular with "solo" players and small groups that operate in a single solar system. I believe that if a pilot and ship are affecting your on-grid combat, they should be on-grid with you so that there is a chance to eliminate the force multiplier. This is already the case with every other ship and module that affects combat unless you count assigned fighters -- and in that case you can destroy the fighters to eliminate their effect.
I have no problem with gang links in general as I've been the beneficiary probably more often than the victim, but someone ought to be at the helm and the ship ought to be vulnerable to counterattack.
Likely the main detractors will say that since a gang linked ship has to be uncloaked to provide bonuses it is vulnerable -- but this isn't true if the ship is at a POS. This means that the whole fleet has to stay together in the system. Eg: you cant have the heavy ships shooting a POS and the lights camping the in gate..
Sure you could they just both wouldn't get the bonuses.
Malcanis wrote: Also, the Fleet Command ships will need to be reworked to be able to have buffer tanks comporable to the Damnation; the Eos and the Claymore will need to lose their lolrep bonuses in favour of some kind of EHP boost. Shield tanking Fleet Commands may also need their slot layout revising, as the Command Processors replace tanking mids..
This seems reasonable.
Malcanis wrote: Being required to be on grid would make T3 gangboosters effectively useless.
Well maybe. I really don't know would you still maybe have one in a t3 fleet? Yeah you would probably not want to run the no tank all booster variety but whether any sort of fits with a booster would ever be viable I don't know.
But even if your right the advantages to eve combat as a whole I think far outweigh nerfing the effectiveness of this one ability that t3s have. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
521
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:MNagy wrote:I agree with this ...
I would however leave 'mining' bonus's off the table.
Orca's and Rorqs cost waaaay too much with minimal defenses to force them to be sitting in an asteroid belt in 0.0 space.
Otherwise +1 Damn pharisaism. +1 for making me go look that up. And yes I agree. There's no reason to apply special treatment to miners. If they want the bonuses then the orca or whatever bonus giving ship should be fulfilling it's role by being on field. Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
...... Roqual could be kept inside the shield and used for compression but if you want to benefit from the fleet boosts you need to take it out of the POS.
Just my 0.02 isk, and for the record I do run mining fleets and usually have my ORCA in belt with the other ships. So much more efficient and a little risk reduces the boredom.
Unlike the Orca the Roqual goes into indu siege mode for fleet boosting ... making it immoblie and very vulnerable to roams if it needs to be on the grid. Rorqual transformation
Yeah i don't think anyone cares too much about the mining bonuses one way or another. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
524
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tanae Avalhar wrote:Terminator56 wrote:I understand where people are coming from on this, however i disagree with making boosters only work on grid. Since the removal of "unprobeablilty", T3 boosters have become increasingly vulnerable to combat. They have very week tanks and arn't that hard to catch. I feel that most people are whining because they have been killed by someone with a booster, and thus try to use it as an excuse for being bad at PVP. If someone brings a boosted 100mn tengu into your system, undock a webbing loki; problem solved. In my opinion, having a booster in a pos gives the owning corp/alliance a "homefield" advantage to people trying to come into their system and blob them. If you fly smart, boosters are easily countered. People are just stupid and get easily butthurt about some guy killing their lolfit fleets. 100% agree with this. Putting boosters on grid will dumb the game too much. Off grid boodters should provide a bonus to the better prepared fleet. If you can't probe them down because you don't have a scout with skills then too bad, you deserve to be at a disadvantage for being unprepared.
By "better prepared" you mean people should have a "scanning alt" to find the "boosting alts."
Alts-online. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
524
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Terminator56 wrote:Cearain wrote:Tanae Avalhar wrote:Terminator56 wrote:I understand where people are coming from on this, however i disagree with making boosters only work on grid. Since the removal of "unprobeablilty", T3 boosters have become increasingly vulnerable to combat. They have very week tanks and arn't that hard to catch. I feel that most people are whining because they have been killed by someone with a booster, and thus try to use it as an excuse for being bad at PVP. If someone brings a boosted 100mn tengu into your system, undock a webbing loki; problem solved. In my opinion, having a booster in a pos gives the owning corp/alliance a "homefield" advantage to people trying to come into their system and blob them. If you fly smart, boosters are easily countered. People are just stupid and get easily butthurt about some guy killing their lolfit fleets. 100% agree with this. Putting boosters on grid will dumb the game too much. Off grid boodters should provide a bonus to the better prepared fleet. If you can't probe them down because you don't have a scout with skills then too bad, you deserve to be at a disadvantage for being unprepared. By "better prepared" you mean people should have a "scanning alt" to find the "boosting alts." Alts-online. More money for CCP that way, why would they want to change it?
It may seem like a good idea to basically require everyone to have alts logged in to pvp. But I think this just turns people off from the game. Not to mention how eve will be a nonstarter for new players, if it continues to foster a reputation that you need to play several alts to be competitive. Alt scouts, alt boosters etc. I think the alt haulers are ok because they can be one of your 3 characters on the same account.
But for things like boosters and scanning alts you need to buy multiple accounts. This emphasis has to be hurting the game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
614
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 15:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
gall turk wrote:Its all well and good making booster limited to a single grid, but often gangs would like have different kind of gang, take the shield gang wanting information links aswell as the siege/skirmish they either shield tank and eos??!?! or they have to put them onto another claymore and not get the full affect.
Or a bigger problem I believe comes with armour gangs wanting skirmish links, armour claymors are not likely and whilst it is possible to armour tank an on field booster loki but only 2 links but if they are looking at changing t3's these will not be affective so again it would be a damntion with skirmish links on.
Now many will say that's a worth while penalty but it puts armour fleets in worse position not been able to get armour links and skirmish links to full affect whereas as a shield gang can have both siege and skirmish link to full affect.
Although you can now have an armor gang with skirmish links thanks to off grid boosting that doesn't necessarilly mean you must be able to have this.
If it is decided you must be able to use every sort of booster with every type of gang then they can address this issue. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
796
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Posted - 2013.01.24 14:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
This is one of the most upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall but it didn't get much from their meeting:
"Seleene brought up the topic of off-grid boosting, and Fozzie responded that technical limitations were the only reason it continued to exist. Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that GÇ£one day Veritas will come up to me and say GÇÿhey I fixed off-grid boostingGÇÖGÇ¥, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle. Elise emphasized that while off-grid boosting was an issue, just the simple way that bonuses are applied in a fleet is flawed."
http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_December_2012.pdf
Is Veritas actually assigned to fix this or is this something he may, or may not do, in his spare time?
Can anyone at csm at least ask this? If he is not specifically assigned to correct this will anyone be assigned to correct this? Some follow up would be appreciated. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
821
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 19:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Super spikinator wrote:Cearain wrote:This is one of the most upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall but it didn't get much from their meeting: "Seleene brought up the topic of off-grid boosting, and Fozzie responded that technical limitations were the only reason it continued to exist. Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that GÇ£one day Veritas will come up to me and say GÇÿhey I fixed off-grid boostingGÇÖGÇ¥, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle. Elise emphasized that while off-grid boosting was an issue, just the simple way that bonuses are applied in a fleet is flawed." http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_December_2012.pdfIs Veritas actually assigned to fix this or is this something he may, or may not do, in his spare time? Can anyone at csm at least ask this? If he is not specifically assigned to correct this will anyone be assigned to correct this? Some follow up would be appreciated. Unfortunately offgrid boosting is not a gamebreaker. Despite what some people may think. If it was a game breaker there would be teams assigned to it, scrounging up as many ideas and shitcode that they can throw at the problem until something sticks and refine that into something that is workable. If the problem rates one person (That being said, that person IS Veritas). Then the problem is either nigh unsolvable or quite down the list. From the sound of the quote I would say Boosting mechanics are close to the single thread node problem in terms of difficulty.
EVE is such a big game that its true no current problem "breaks" the whole game. But based on the player feedback in the assembly hall thread I posted this problem is causing the most damage to the game. I am not aware of a specific mechanic change that has more support from the players.
Yes lots of players say "fix null sec sov" but they don't give any specific ideas as to what should be done. Forcing boosters to at least be on the battle grid is pretty specific.
We really don't have any idea what the techincial problem is. So its hard to speculate on what other options might resolve the issue and not be so technically difficult.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
821
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 19:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Just dropping this in: simply restricting boosts to a grid can possibly not deliver desired effect. There's not much help if said booster sits 300 km away from you rather than at the safespot. This can make little difference in big engagements and probably in smaller ones as well.
If the ship is on grid you can see it and decide if you still want to take the fight. You can't warp 300km away from someone.
bottom line: Forcing ships to be on grid will solve the problem. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
836
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 16:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Cearain wrote:Barrogh Habalu wrote:Just dropping this in: simply restricting boosts to a grid can possibly not deliver desired effect. There's not much help if said booster sits 300 km away from you rather than at the safespot. This can make little difference in big engagements and probably in smaller ones as well. If the ship is on grid you can see it and decide if you still want to take the fight. You can't warp 300km away from someone. bottom line: Forcing ships to be on grid will solve the problem. Learn more grid-fu. It is possible to make a grid that exists in 2 places, with a section between them that is not on grid. warp your booster to the pocket once the enemy has commited, and hide defense ships in the off-grid section between.
Forcing ships on grid = problem solved.
The Grid fu concern is highly overrated and a last ditch attempt by some to justify this broken mechanic. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 14:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Any news on if ccp decided to assign someone to fix this? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
883
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
Flying through faction war space its getting to the point where I see more t3s on dscan that combat ships.
CCP claims that they want to do away with OGBs but they don't have the technical know how.
Yet at every phase they buff them. T2 links, buffs to active tanks, buffs to missile kiting platforms. I'm starting to question ccp's word on this one. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
938
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
yodayblack wrote:You ever been in a real engagement? ....
No sir, I've never been up in a plane before. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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