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AIDSth3STDeath
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Posted - 2009.04.08 03:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: AIDSth3STDeath on 08/04/2009 03:51:15
So im a hardcore PVE'er and i recently joined a corp that does small, 4 or 5 man PVP trips. all of them use HAC or recons, and i have to train to at least an AF to be successful.
So even though i need to train for an AF in order to train for a HAC, should i stop at an AF hawk and just stick with that or should i continue to a HAC.
or should i go fro recon even......
Im looking for an opinion on whats the best class of ship for small gang pvp that is also training effective for someone who also like to run missions in a heavy tanking and hard hitting battleship
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.08 05:19:00 -
[2]
I recommend a triple trimarked BS with a slave set. I don't like to run.
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Peckles
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.04.08 05:41:00 -
[3]
Well if you do go with AF's which is a decent choice for small gang PVP, don't go with the hawk, fly a harpy.
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Lord Zekk
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.04.08 06:30:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Peckles
Well if you do go with AF's which is a decent choice for small gang PVP, don't go with the hawk, fly a harpy.
He's right. The Blarpy is far more effective.
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
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Posted - 2009.04.08 08:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Morel Nova on 08/04/2009 09:00:36
yes hawk is a pile of useless trash. also, you say you are a hardcore PVEer and are going to go flying with a pvp roaming gang, so:
train AF, but fly a couple of times with t1 frigs/cruisers with them so because if you are new to pvp you will lose a ton of ships before you learn and wont get much out of the t2 performance.
Put in space whales!
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Aaronm100
Killer Koalas
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.04.08 11:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Peckles
Well if you do go with AF's which is a decent choice for small gang PVP, don't go with the hawk, fly an ishkur.
Yeh pretty much this.
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The Tzar
Malicious Intentions
The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.08 12:16:00 -
[7]
4/5 man gangs hmmmm..., if possible go for this;
1/2 x Arazu
1 x Falcon
1 x Rapier
1 x Ishtar (with cloak and sentries)
__________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound.
This is why some people appear intelligent
until they speak'
__________________________________________ |
Cupdeez
Out of Order
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.08 17:23:00 -
[8]
HAC suck a **** right now...
use recon ships.
Falcon
Rapier
Arazu
Curse
---------
They can kill anything 4v4 haahah
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E Vile
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Posted - 2009.04.08 17:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: E Vile on 08/04/2009 17:35:05
Edited by: E Vile on 08/04/2009 17:34:00
Originally by: Cupdeez
HAC suck a **** right now...
use recon ships.
Falcon
Rapier
Arazu
Curse
---------
They can kill anything 4v4 haahah
I agree Recons are handy, but I disagree with the "HAC suck" statement.
HAC mixed with Recons are a nice gang.
I also disagree with the Hawk being "Useless" It makes a good medium/heavy tackler with a strong little tank (stronger tank then the harpy). It also has decent range with it's missles, not doing alot of dps, but being versitile in keeping it's fire on prime.
As for Which to fly?
HAC will cost much more Isk for the ship and fittings.
Just use what you can afford, and choose between your preference of flying a frig size, or cruiser size ship
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Durindana
Gallente
Lafayette Sex Lions
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Posted - 2009.04.08 17:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: The Tzar
4/5 man gangs hmmmm..., if possible go for this;
1/2 x Arazu
1 x Falcon
1 x Rapier
1 x Ishtar (with cloak and sentries)
lulz so not only should he go on to HACs, he should completely abandon all his shield and missile skills for armor and drones. Should've titled the thread "Blah blah... next year"
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.04.08 18:25:00 -
[11]
If you got decent missile skills the cerberus would be a nice HAC to train for. Regardless what people on the forums say about missiles, cerberus is a great choice for small gang warfare.
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AIDSth3STDeath
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:20:00 -
[12]
Thanks for the tips.
I do intend to go for a Cerb eventually, as i ahve far more SP in missiles than Gunnery. Thats why i went with the hawk. is the Harpy still better? Because i do have gunnery 5 and small hybrid turret, just no gunnery support skills.
Also, the gang has 2 recons, and two HAC i think.
I do plan on taking several trips into lowsec with t1 frigs/cruisers while im training for an AF, and i do realize that i will lose a couple ships before i get good.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.04.08 22:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: AIDSth3STDeath
I do intend to go for a Cerb eventually, as i ahve far more SP in missiles than Gunnery. Thats why i went with the hawk. is the Harpy still better? Because i do have gunnery 5 and small hybrid turret, just no gunnery support skills.
The Hawk is utter trash. It has pathetic dps, poor tank (active tank sucks for PvP, and you don't have fitting for a proper buffer), and some bad fitting problems. The Harpy simply outclasses it in every possible way.
Fortunately for you, an AF will be just fine. With two HACs and some extra dps from the pair of recons, your gang should have plenty of dps, but you don't really have any fast tackle. An AF would fill that role very nicely. I suggest using the following Harpy setup:
[Harpy, of DOOM]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Medium Shield Extender II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Warp Disruptor II
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Note: fitting this will require Shield Upgrades V and either AWU V or Hybrid Rigging V. If you do not have those (and you probably don't), swap the neut for a rocket launcher.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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AIDSth3STDeath
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:29:00 -
[14]
[Harpy, of DOOM]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Medium Shield Extender II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Warp Disruptor II
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Sounds like a good fitting, i might end up in something similar. Anu segestions on a t1 frigate/cruiser to try PVP in?
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AIDSth3STDeath
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:34:00 -
[15]
And also, arent Blasters just as good if not better that the gatling guns because thy have much higher dps and and only 2k less max range.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.04.09 01:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AIDSth3STDeath
And also, arent Blasters just as good if not better that the gatling guns because thy have much higher dps and and only 2k less max range.
Look a little more carefully at that range: that setup has 24km optimal, putting you nice and safely outside of web range. Blasters will give you more dps, but require you to get into web/scram range, which is a bad idea for a tackler frigate.
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Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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AIDSth3STDeath
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Posted - 2009.04.09 01:42:00 -
[17]
Ah thanks, i had the wrong ammo lol. so used to missiles i didnt think ammo made a range diff. oops
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AIDSth3STDeath
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Posted - 2009.04.09 01:48:00 -
[18]
Though i still only get 18k range with the rigs.... i have crappy gunnery skills thats why i wnt with the hawk in the first place
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Intigo
Amarr
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 08:47:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Intigo on 09/04/2009 08:49:47
Anyone who says HACs are bad (as stated earlier in the thread) is an incompetent PvP'er. Cerbs are amazing in ranged cloaky small gangs where you want to unleash a lot of damage before backup arrives.
AFs are bad tacklers and bad DPS boats (for HAC / Recon small gang warfare). Sure, they're a cheaper stepping stone in order for you to learn your way around PvP, but once you have the SP and the experience to fly better things, please do yourself a favor and ditch them. No gang with a clue would take a Harpy over a well-piloted Interceptor tackling, the extra ~100 (max) DPS you bring is not really a factor.
For your situation, sure go for the AF (can't you fly Interceptors?) and try to be of use to the gang by tackling, but don't stay with it for too long. The fact that you have bad Gunnery skills is not really an issue seeing as you would be doing pretty pathetic damage compared to the HACs regardless. If I were you I would dedicate the fit to tackling instead so you're actually useful in the gang setting, the damage gained from the MFS is hardly ground-breaking.
___________________
ENEMA, much love. <3 |
The Tzar
Malicious Intentions
The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 12:27:00 -
[20]
True the cerb is a good ship but everything under 100km the Zealot does it better.
All of the ships with multiple bonus to weapons systems really shine with high sp in that skill branch.
__________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound.
This is why some people appear intelligent
until they speak'
__________________________________________ |
Intigo
Amarr
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 13:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: The Tzar
True the cerb is a good ship but everything under 100km the Zealot does it better.
All of the ships with multiple bonus to weapons systems really shine with high sp in that skill branch.
I whole-heartedly disagree. Beam Zealot is terrible damage and Pulse isn't exactly the kind of thing you'd want a in a ranged-cloaky gang. :p In the recon / cloak / ranged gangs we ran in Delve a Cerberus was the perfect DPS boat. High volley damage with great range that had a spare high for the cloak.
Anyway regardless, on topic - AFs are bad for those sort of gangs, do your gang a favor and don't use them the moment you can avoid it.
___________________
ENEMA, much love. <3 |
Altris
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:04:00 -
[22]
Wouldn't a Caracal be the way to go until skilled for a Cerb? Rather than any AF? Especially considering that the OP's skills are missile-focussed? |
Darcon Kylote
Canadian Imperial Armaments
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:20:00 -
[23]
In my experience, every small gang like this suffers from lack of proper tackle. So get into a light dictor or an interceptor first. You'll be of far more value to any gang than in an AF.
An AF looks like a good med/heavy tackler on paper, but in reality, there's more bang for the buck in having the same pilot in a proper tackling ship.
The main reason you *think* you want heavy tackle in a small gang is to keep the target from burning back to the gate. But an inty with a web and/or scram has the speed to reach the target in time before he's already gotten up to speed and made it halfway back. An AF is too slow, he's often already there before you get to him.
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Tuvar Hiede
Caldari
The Giant Squid Corp.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:17:00 -
[24]
I personally fly gall but a AF is perfectly viable tackle. mwd will blow your sig making you easier to pop making you as easy too track as a BC, but toss on a warp disrupter set a orbit and equip a tracking disrupter or web drop the mwd orbit at max range minus 1k if able and you should be able to avoid all but other frigs with luck.
Cerberus is a nice ride, long range and solid volley dmg can ruin a tackled targets day. for fitting use etf and battle clinic fits to get an idea of what other people are fitting.
good luck out there, and beware drones while tackling. combat you might wanna consider a afrerburner over MWD. its slower but can be ran w/o the sig drawback and more cap friendly.
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Solar Chase
Black Nova Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.10 09:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: AIDSth3STDeath
Edited by: AIDSth3STDeath on 08/04/2009 03:51:15
all of them use HAC or recons, and i have to train to at least an AF to be successful.
That is a very common misconception. Personal knowledge and skill matter ten times more in this game, than having a lot of SP and uber expensive ships. If "success" is defined by kills, you need to consider the real composition in your gang. If all your mates fly cruiser sized hulls, your gang is in dire need of fast locking tacklers and/or interdictors. An assault frigate won't add much in terms of dps, and it won't be as effective tackle as a ceptor/dictor.
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