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Solomon Dawn
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Posted - 2009.04.13 02:02:00 -
[1]
Probably mentioned and debated 100 times before, though I have only found a few threads.
I think the main interface, when in an ship, should be of a ****pit.
No need for FPS flying... joystick.. etc etc. Just the VIEW to be either out through a ****pit window, or possibly a Star Trek type deck situation.
Seeing an outside view of a ship, as it is now, is somewhat silly.
Are we in a Pod inside the ship or not? How does it give us this view in reality? A camera out there? What, a mini drone-camera showing us this view now??
And seeing a full screen of space, but always needing to have multiple panels of information open and covering a lot of that view of space, is wasteful and a bit silly too.
Whatever the true real being's view source is (virtual? Really there? Camera feed?), it can surely be an internal one and remain viably "explained" by whatever the reality of our being is.
Possibly give the ability to select the two cameras.. internal and external anyway.
From inside you wont be able to scan around, it remains a fixed view the same as you see now, thus little to no programming changes needed. The only 3D space seen will be out the window viewport, or on the big screen (ala Star Trek), so drawing needs are even less than now. Yet still easily adequate for playing the game - you hardly actually need to see anything outside the ship really anyway, it could all be just scanners and internal screens showing stuff, but of course seeing some stuff out there is nice! Nice galaxies, stations, gates, asteroids etc etc
The Next step - may as well throw this in anyway...
Give a joystick ability to free flight.
Not to fight. Not to aim. ONLY to allow free flight.
At the moment you do see other ships that are around you, moving at their cruise speeds, or warping etc. So there is bandwidth being used to position other entities around you. Thus free flight control should not add much overhead at all. If any.
Though I suspect that those current 'free flight' aspects you see of other ships around you are limited to areas only near stations or gates etc, thus the true expanse of space is really a mere fraction of what the real universe is. eg you can't even be in 95% of places that are between those main entity locations. You can only ever be in an area around and end point - station, gate, encounter etc. So adding free flight would mean more areas can be travelled to, but even tracking that is just a co-ordinate and should not increase bandwidth needs at all.
I can't see any reason it could not be done viably and for near zero cost to anything (bandwidth, coding difficulty etc) compared to now.
You would switch between free-flight or back to 'normal' ship guided controls, at your leisure. And most people would use ship guided most of the time. But to have free flight possible, and used some times, would be worth it just for the realism.
It would allow you to cruise right around a station... view it. Park next to it to admire it. etc etc Lots of interesting uses.
This would move the realism factor upwards immensely. For such little cost.
I think it should be a much higher priority than "walking on stations", and is probably 1/100th the programming effort to add in also. Thus an easy enough expansion to the game.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.13 02:22:00 -
[2]
The free flight would be useless fluff, even if it was possible.
Also, ****pits don't exist in EVE. You're in a goo-filled pod. There's no deck, no ****pit, nothing.
The view comes from small camera drones on the outside of the ship.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.13 02:44:00 -
[3]
Seeing space through a ****pit is pointless because you are in a pod in the middle of the ship, similar to how Battlestar Galactical was setup. Actually it's more like how the Cylon hybrids were. You control the ship through a mind link. The outside view that you see is from a camera drone behind the ship.
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Solomon Dawn
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Posted - 2009.04.13 02:44:00 -
[4]
Why would anyone ever (future or whatever) ever invent some system where beings in a pod, controlled ships, using an external drone camera view! That is just stupid.
You would use on-ship cameras... whether on the hull looking forwards, or multiples etc.
Only some ******ed species would invent some external drone camera idea! A severe lacking of logic and usfulness. Not an overly advanced race and having warp capabilities etc!
Most likely you would not need to see a single thing at all really. Just control panels and sensor readouts.
But if you WERE going to give a view... it would be first person. You would emulate what a being actually being there would experience.
As for free flight... the on-board computers are obviosuly too unsophisticated (suurprising for the super technology available!) to do anything but very simplistic point-to-point operations. So they either need to be advanced to beyond the 19th century abilities (abacus controlled!), to be able to do the hundreds of possible tasks/paths a pilot might really want to do, or be given free flight ability so he can do it himself! LOL
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Sashi Romanenko
Caldari
GIT-R-DUN
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.04.13 02:49:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The free flight would be useless fluff, even if it was possible.
I think there are quite a few dedicated ceptor and dictor pilots that would disagree with that statement.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.13 03:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sashi Romanenko
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The free flight would be useless fluff, even if it was possible.
I think there are quite a few dedicated ceptor and dictor pilots that would disagree with that statement.
true but then there will be the BS pilots that have to practically break their stick just to turn their ship to align it.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.13 03:28:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Why would anyone ever (future or whatever) ever invent some system where beings in a pod, controlled ships using an external drone camera view! That is just stupid.
You would use on-ship cameras... whether on the hull looking forwards, or multiples etc.
Only some ******ed species would invent some external drone camera idea! A severe lacking of logic and usfulness. Not a result from an overly advanced race and having warp capabilities etc!
How exactly is the system in EVE less than ideal? The pilot is hooked up to the ships systems so there's no ambiguity or response time; he can control the ship with mere thoughts. Being able to see externally gives you considerably more information than a normal view.
Just because it contradicts the normal ,hackneyed "bridge" idea of sci-fi does not make it bad.
Quote:
And you seem to be missing a fundamental point... Pod , or no pod, you ARE seeing stuff.
So it may as well be a sensible view point. What actually being there in person would see. You are "there" to use and control something, so you would be there to see stuff too.
If you detached your view from the camera drones, you'd see goo.
Quote:
Plus drone cameras... how stupid is that... another mechanical item needed, a little weak damage suspceptible item exteral, to be destroyed/damaged in battle (but of course the simplistic game never accounts for or does that)... so no one with any decent sense or logic would arrive at such an invention in reality.
If you're going to ***** about the lore, at least take the time to read up on it. You know nothing of what you talk about, you're just ****y because the concept of a normal sci-fi "bridge" does not exist in pod-pilot ships.
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Solomon Dawn
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Posted - 2009.04.13 06:42:00 -
[8]
There is nothing in the lore contradicting what I mentioned...
We are still a normal human being, just inside a pod, which is inside the ship.
We currently do SEE, and we MUST use an interface for the game, whether or not the supposed person is using telepathic controls from within a pod, in the lore.
It does not mention anywhere about how or what or why we see what we do... eg no mention of "The world is now viewed through external cameras" for some reason. So there is no reason you would not see what is universally accepted as normal. A view as if to be there, in person.
In Eve mankind has not changed, there is no mention of evolving to just a brain etc. So we remain a full human.
The main reason for the Pod, it seems, is that it is a way to sustain life easier in space - it doesn't seem specific but alludes to it being a better support system for humans.
The pod is inside the ship. That is why you are left in a Pod when the ship is destroyed. And it can actually travel itself.
Cloning is just a way you can 'escape' the pod and be somewhere else - or if it was destroyed, so you are not truly 'dead'.
So all in all, still no reason for some bizarre external camera system.
Also, the "Walking on stations" will be when a pilot docks and gets OUT of his pod. He will resume mobility like a normal human - so why wouldn't all concepts of design for pod bound pilots be to give them exactly what they would expect to see in the real world too? They would.
How is that external camera operating? It is not attached to the ship in any linked manner - the ship can rotate whilst that camera somehow maintains its exact spot in space, yet it tracks the ship when the ship moves. Why would anyone ever devise such a complex external drone system of viewing a ship - there is no use in doing that, apart for a GAME to do so, to allow players to see things 'better'. However it remains silly and unrealistic seeing no one would ever make a real world system do that. Their is absolutely no (zero) reason to ever design such a system, in the real world.
It is also unnecessary to do that even for the 'game', when an internal ship view - or front mounted ship camera etc - would do all you need to see to pilot a ship better (a true view from the ship you ARE within), plus be realistic at that same time. Whether or not you are in a pod does not mean they would alter what humans expect to see. The universe is stil the same as pre-pod, mankind the same physical being, so the way they do things (design things etc) would also be the same as we would expect in the world now. Certainly not altered to using some oddball way of viewing things instead (external camera).
Using the internal view, but having an external view ALSO just to allow players the pleasure to watch their own ship be bombarded, would be acceptable as an addition to a GAME... but not as the basis for how any real world item would ever be set up.
An internal 'on fight deck' camera would be chosen as a way to mimic the pilot really being there... otherwise you would just use some system of cameras mounted on the ship body - fore,aft, etc - which the pod bound pilot could switch through. If you did it that way, or even a Star Trek like screen (which uses a forward looking hull camera anyway) they should also be damageable in combat. Only a real window type view (which is really too antiquated to be in use in this future) would remain operational always, seeing it is a fixed opening of the ship.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.13 09:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Solomon Dawn
There is nothing in the lore contradicting what I mentioned...
We are still a normal human being, just inside a pod, which is inside the ship.
We currently do SEE, and we MUST use an interface for the game, whether or not the supposed person is using telepathic controls from within a pod, in the lore.
It does not mention anywhere about how or what or why we see what we do... eg no mention of "The world is now viewed through external cameras" for some reason. So there is no reason you would not see what is universally accepted as normal. A view as if to be there, in person.
Actually I am 99% sure that there was one called "Camera Drone" or something along those lines that described it. I'll have to spend some time today to see if I can find it. Off to work so I don't have time at the moment.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.13 09:34:00 -
[10]
Actually found it much faster than I anticipated. It even has a picture of the camera drone :P
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=apr01-02
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.04.13 10:08:00 -
[11]
All pod piloted ship in eve dont have ****pits, we have Bridges, we dont pilot our craft we technically navigate our craft and if it pod tech didnt exist we probably do it with a bunch of dails and keyboard commands. I mean thats the difference between us and NPCs.
We dont fly ships strike craft classes which would have ****pits such as the light fighters and dropships and the fictional corvettes.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 6Apr09 |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.13 14:19:00 -
[12]
Short Stories: The Jovian Wetgrave
Tells all about the usage and implementation of the Pod and how it interacts with the ship's systems.
EVE Chronicles: Camera Drones
Specifically focuses on the fact that what you are seeing in game... a 3rd person perspective, is what the pilot sees.
Fanfest 2008 Interviews: Designing WIS
Has an awesome collage of scenes depicting when a Pilot would get out of their goo pod, roam around the stations seeing the sights, and then get back in and undock. |
NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.13 23:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 13/04/2009 14:30:54
Short Stories: The Jovian Wetgrave
Tells all about the usage and implementation of the Pod and how it interacts with the ship's systems.
EVE Chronicles: Camera Drones
Specifically focuses on the fact that what you are seeing in game... a 3rd person perspective, is what the pilot sees.
Fanfest 2008 Interviews: Designing WIS
Has an awesome collage of scenes depicting when a Pilot would get out of their goo pod, roam around the stations seeing the sights, and then get back in and undock.
Note: It starts about 7min into the video.
well put marcus
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.13 23:18:00 -
[14]
=)
I stole your Camera Drone link... but I added the others all by my lonesome.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.14 00:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: NightF0x on 14/04/2009 00:39:04
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
=)
I stole your Camera Drone link... but I added the others all by my lonesome.
It's all good, i've been meaning to go back and reread some of those old chronicles...just never have time
I just loved how arrogantly sure he was that there wasn't a backstory about it. It took me a whole 5 seconds to find it...guess no one ever scrolls up to the Backstory tabs...lol
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 03:35:00 -
[16]
Oddly enough. Of all the random Chronicles that get linked over ---->>>> there... I see the Camera Drone story the most often. |
Grek Forto
Malevolent Intentions
Dark Solar Empire
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Posted - 2009.04.14 05:06:00 -
[17]
Please stop talking as if you knew what would and would not be used when flying spaceships IRL.
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Originally by: CCP Abraxas
All major capsuleer ships have crews. Battleships are manned by thousands of people.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.04.14 05:29:00 -
[18]
well current spaceships use keyboard and computer plotting and joysticks for atmospheric operations.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 6Apr09 |
Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.14 16:12:00 -
[19]
why is the word: c.o.c.k.pit censored?
CPP has a dirty mind.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 17:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 14/04/2009 18:00:00
Originally by: Grek Forto
Please stop talking as if you knew what would and would not be used when flying spaceships IRL.
Please stop talking...
We're merely siting sources provided in the game. Who gives a hairy rat's a$$ what's used in real life.
Star Trek has a massive bridge and numerous crew compliment... not because that's a better way to operate a starship, but that's how to include several cast members in a scene when filming a TV SHOW.
This is a video game. And YOU are the star of the show. So that's why there is no bridge crew. You are responsible for what happens.
The virtual reality concept of the Pod interface has been used before, and reflects technological advances in the current single seater c-o-c-k-pit design. The futuristic setting allows for stuff like direct neural interfacing. And the 3rd person view allows for examining any damage without exiting the craft, as well as viewing all directions around you.
On another note...
Quote:
****pit
So that's no good? Can't say c-o-c-k? How about dong, wiener, wang, schlong, boner, willy, johnson, pecker, rod, shaft...
*hurray for Thesaurus*
Come on CCP... let's grow up, eh? This is a grown up game after all... |
Oregin
Gods Left Hand
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 18:50:00 -
[21]
"As for free flight... the on-board computers are obviosuly too unsophisticated (surprising for the super technology available!) to do anything but very simplistic point-to-point operations. So they either need to be advanced to beyond the 19th century abilities (abacus controlled!), to be able to do the hundreds of possible tasks/paths a pilot might really want to do, or be given free flight ability so he can do it himself! LOL"
Realtime input? Seriously? You know this is online yeh?
Double click move is one packet of information sent to the server, very occasionally too.
If you wish to implement 'free flight' then its a constant stream of interchange between client and server. At present EVE still has lag issues. I'm sorry but this is simply not viable and in many ways is, equally, not EVE. It's not a game about reflexes, its not a shooter but a thinking man/woman's game much closer to chess than to MS flight sim.
As a result, the camera is outside the ship so you can actually see what you're doing. Since 'free flight' is not implementable it seems pointless constraining to limit your view to a small part of space at one time. How do you intend to maintain distance from multiple ships? Or adjust your transversal of ships not in view? Your comments are most welcome.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 18:56:00 -
[22]
I'm pretty sure he's gotten the idea already.
And the topic of constant data traffic caused by a joystick has been talked to death in previous threads.
Everyone (except for the occasional forum noob) knows they won't happen anytime soon. |
Oregin
Gods Left Hand
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 18:58:00 -
[23]
I apologise for the offence Marcus, I won't post again.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 14/04/2009 19:01:15
Dude, you're free to post.
But Solomon Dawn hasn't replied to this thread since he made it.
So I think the very clear posts pointing out that his claims of "No reason why we see 3rd person" were invalid, have satisfied his gripe about the game.
And as I said, the joystick topic has been done to death.
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Oregin
Gods Left Hand
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:04:00 -
[25]
Well maybe my commenting (and your commenting that my commenting was entirely superfluous) will inspire him to go and check the posts regarding real time input which have so many times been made before (and of which I'm well aware thank you  )
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Limited Liability Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:10:00 -
[26]
I love forums... they're like an archaic chat room.
And sadly, no one ever looks for a topic before they post their "Genius, never before thought of" ideas.
Even when they do... they don't get very far when the EVE search function is useless.
I prefer to Google for stuff. |
Jaelyn Keris
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:15:00 -
[27]
Everyone's done a pretty good job of telling you why you're wrong already, but I invite you to defend why you think it's stupid the way that it is, using facts and reasoning to back up your opinion instead of just saying that it's stupid and expecting us to believe you.
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