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[CSM 3.0 Candidate] El Presidente Gallente (Omber Zombie)

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Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.05.20 19:00:00 - [31] Edited by: Claire Voyant on 20/05/2009 19:18:02 Originally by: Omber Zombie it would be a fairly stupid restriction considering most minerals fall below that number threshold. It's the same reason there isn't a % based limitation. Any limit you place on market prices will break at least a portion of the market, and the rest can be gamed. I don't understand your response. Trit and Pyerite already trade at an effective 3 significant digit restriction and I don't think anyone is complaining about that. As I write this, there are 9 orders to sell trit at Jita 4M4 CNAP for 4.24 isk and they are all waiting patiently to fill those orders in a first-come-first-served order. Mex, Isogen, and Nocxium all trade under 100 isk, so they currently trade with an effective 4 significant digit limitation. The only minerals that would even be effected by a 4 digit limitation would be Zydrine, Magacyte, and Morphite. Frankly, minerals would be the market least effected, so perhaps you misunderstood my proposal, in which case I would be happy to explain further. If not, I can't make any sense out of your response and I would appreciate it if you could explain what you mean.
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.21 04:18:00 - [32] sorry, I though you meant whole numbers rather than actual digits. In this case, I obviously don't get what you're trying to ask as it doesn't seem to make any sense. ---------------------- My Blog
Semper Spero IMR Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.21 05:46:00 - [33] Edited by: Semper Spero on 21/05/2009 05:46:16 Hi OZ, will you continue to push for resolution for this issue? S&I Interface Improvements Thx
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.21 07:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Semper Spero Edited by: Semper Spero on 21/05/2009 05:46:16 Hi OZ, will you continue to push for resolution for this issue? S&I Interface Improvements Thx most definitely, along with any other ways of simplifying what is an unnecessarily complex and time consuming UI. ---------------------- My Blog
Treelox Amarr Seppuku Warriors	Posted - 2009.05.21 08:27:00 - [35] I have used the ball gag that you gave me years ago, to force my minions to vote for you. For the sake of a good laugh, here is that image once again, ofc them damm ebil mods (love ya mitnal) will purge it soon enough :( --
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.05.21 13:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Omber Zombie sorry, I though you meant whole numbers rather than actual digits. In this case, I obviously don't get what you're trying to ask as it doesn't seem to make any sense. Sorry, I will try to explain it better. This is an attempt to make the Eve market system more like a real-life exchange trading system where there are predefined minimum bid increments. For example, if you wish to buy a crude oil futures contract, you will either have to outbid the existing buyers by at least $10 per contract or wait for all their buy orders to be filled before yours will be filled. Since the eve market trades everything from minerals at 4 isk per unit to ships up to a billion isk or more, the problem is how to implement such a minimum bid increment. My proposal is probably the simplest implementation. When entering the price for a buy or sell order, you will be restricted to the number of significant digits you can enter. You will still be free to add as many zeros as you wish or place the decimal point where you want (except that you still can't have any increment smaller than 0.01 isk.) For example, valid prices for a Raven would be 85.65 million, 85.66 million, 85.67 million, etc. under a 4 significant digit restriction. What happens when you enter an invalid price would be up to the developers, but they could either round it or truncate it or reject it altogether. I personally feel a 3 significant digit restriction would be feasible but probably hard to sell to most players, so a 4 digit implementation seems like the most painless way to get this in place.
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:53:00 - [37] Originally by: Claire Voyant Sorry, I will try to explain it better. This is an attempt to make the Eve market system more like a real-life exchange trading system where there are predefined minimum bid increments. For example, if you wish to buy a crude oil futures contract, you will either have to outbid the existing buyers by at least $10 per contract or wait for all their buy orders to be filled before yours will be filled. Since the eve market trades everything from minerals at 4 isk per unit to ships up to a billion isk or more, the problem is how to implement such a minimum bid increment. My proposal is probably the simplest implementation. When entering the price for a buy or sell order, you will be restricted to the number of significant digits you can enter. You will still be free to add as many zeros as you wish or place the decimal point where you want (except that you still can't have any increment smaller than 0.01 isk.) For example, valid prices for a Raven would be 85.65 million, 85.66 million, 85.67 million, etc. under a 4 significant digit restriction. What happens when you enter an invalid price would be up to the developers, but they could either round it or truncate it or reject it altogether. I personally feel a 3 significant digit restriction would be feasible but probably hard to sell to most players, so a 4 digit implementation seems like the most painless way to get this in place. I guess my answer to that is why would you want to limit the market? I understand the frustration of .01isk undercutting, but this type of limitation would imho do more harm than good. The eve market isn't a trade exchange, it's like walking into a local market and haggling with the vendors. One of eve's best features is it's open market - unless I can get some very very good arguments as to how such a system would improve the market, I can't say I would vote for it, let alone raise or champion it. ---------------------- My Blog
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Omber Zombie I guess my answer to that is why would you want to limit the market? I understand the frustration of .01isk undercutting, but this type of limitation would imho do more harm than good. The eve market isn't a trade exchange, it's like walking into a local market and haggling with the vendors. One of eve's best features is it's open market - unless I can get some very very good arguments as to how such a system would improve the market, I can't say I would vote for it, let alone raise or champion it. As a matter of fact, the eve market IS a trade exchange and it ISN'T like your local market. The market system is set up to automatically execute trades with the "best" matching order which is what makes it an exchange. The contract system is more like the local market because you choose which seller you want to deal with.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.23 08:08:00 - [39] This person has my endorsement :) Known OZ since the big blue days, and you can always count on him to think things through and keep a level head.
Jotobar	Posted - 2009.05.24 11:58:00 - [40] Edited by: Jotobar on 24/05/2009 12:01:09 Originally by: Omber Zombie I guess my answer to that is why would you want to limit the market? It would free the market not limit it. the entire trade system, especially in hubs, revolves around who updates enough orders often enough, Not supply and demand. Using 3-4 significant digits for bid increments would effectively over time make all markets converge to supply and demand and traders would have to make decisions and market moves instead of repeating their intention. This would be a good thing for you and the community because: a) It would make trading more about brains than time which would be more fun. b) It would get rid of every single trade bot in the game or put them at an serious disadvantage (a good example of this would be to check out the markets and bot activity in hubs where there's already an automatic 3-4 significant digits limit, like veldspar or trit in jita) c) It would net you alot of the traders votes. d) It would be one of the biggest changes you could hope to get through. e) More research and thinking and less brainless updating every 5 minutes means less server lag for all, this benifit would make the issue alot easier to champion and get response in.
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.24 17:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Jotobar c) It would net you alot of the traders votes. d) It would be one of the biggest changes you could hope to get through. those 2 reasons are not good reasons. I don't do things to 'get more votes' or because 'they will get through', I do things because they make the game better. The other reasons are fair enough and worth looking into. ---------------------- My Blog
Aredin	Posted - 2009.05.24 17:32:00 - [42] Originally by: Omber Zombie those 2 reasons are not good reasons. I don't do things to 'get more votes' or because 'they will get through', I do things because they make the game better. The other reasons are fair enough and worth looking into. I can get behind this sort of ideology. Voted x2.
Maxwell Terallis	Posted - 2009.05.25 00:39:00 - [43] Hi Omber, What is your stance on aggression flags for salvaging wrecks?
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.25 02:31:00 - [44] Originally by: Maxwell Terallis Hi Omber, What is your stance on aggression flags for salvaging wrecks? I should go find my exact quote from the minutes this was discussed in, but in general my idea was to have time limited flags for both the corp of the people who owned the original ship destroyed and the corp of the people that destroyed it, something like 5 minutes. Whoever salvaged/looted it first got the stuff. After that time limit expired, the wreck became available to everyone to loot/salvage. ---------------------- My Blog
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.05.25 07:32:00 - [45] I vote Omber Zombie; Becuase of Falcon Quote: "Lecherito on Market Discussion: Though I have to go down on the record as saying that I'm convinced the majority of the MD community is ******ed"
Treelox Amarr Seppuku Warriors	Posted - 2009.06.04 09:36:00 - [46] belated congratz Ozzie on another term ....now we just need to figure out how to smuggle you into the council for a 3rd term --

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