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Mojihito
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mojihito on 17/04/2009 11:20:05
Originally by: Qual Now at least you have to think about how you set up your probes to catch the signal.
Sory but theres no thinking to be done , its a monkey job and its very tedious .
Originally by: Qual
How could you place it wrong? Sites are within 4 AU of a planet. Place the probe at planets. You couldn't mess it up in any way or form. (Ok, you could save a few isk by making optimal scan spots between planets, but that was more greed driven than need driven.) Now at least you have to think about how you set up your probes to catch the signal. Saying that the old system required any kind of player skill is rubbish. It did not!
Actually good placing probes mattered = overlapping .
Back to topic : I wonder if signals ID have any meaning or it is all bunch of random digits.
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Sarina Berghil
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Morscerta
- How are IDs for Grav, Ladar, etc. derived (to be specific if I ignore ID ASM-399 which happens to be a common perimeter grav site, do I ignore then all Grav sites or do I ignore just common perimeter grav sites?)
I don't know how the IDs are derived but if you ignore a site, you only ignore that particular site. All other common perimeter grav sites will still show up.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:37:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Then CCP destroyed this profession, made it mainstream, dumbed it to hell and back and then dumbed it again. This is not exploration anymore. This is moving damn balls faster then all other people on local. Forget about knowledge, skills, patience, investments and feeling
Where was the skill before? In having more patience than most?
Now the basic system is easy to grasp and quick to use...
... you can cry a river over the golden past or leave the legions of high sec "explorers" behind and go discover in low sec or better. There the legions of wannabe explorers won't follow.
Quote:
Well, I would say number of explorers increased after Apocrypha. Don't you agree with that?
The number of stealth bomber pilots dramatically increased since yesterday. We are booooneeeeedddd! Oh wait, new fads eventually turn old and things slowly return to "normal".
Apocrypha pushed people to try exploration due to the new mechanics and due to worm holes. Now, from "WOW I FOUND A WORM HOLE IN THIS 0.9 sec system!!!" we slowly got to "YAWN another WH, couldn't they remove some of them and add more ladar / radar sites?" already.
Give it a pair of months and you'll have your e-exclusive system mostly back to yours truly.
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Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:54:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Qual on 17/04/2009 12:54:36
Originally by: Mojihito
Actually good placing probes mattered = overlapping .
Sorry but there was no thinking to be done, it was a monkey job and was very tedious.
Goes both ways you see. Besides the old system would yield result in either case sooner or later, the new wont. So the old one worked better in brainless mode thatn the new one.
But I guess that is the real problem...
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.17 14:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
----------------------------- (suggestion)
I'd like to repeat my own suggested change to this system:
Require hitting 75% before you can use the IgnoreID options on the applicable IDs. Then make this requirement decrease 10% per Pinpointing skill rank down from 75% - and give DSProbes their own 25% reduction bonus which then makes Astro 5 very valuable).
That means somebody with Pinpointing 5 would have only a 25% requirement for the IgnoreID features, and if they use DSProbes (Astro 5) then it's down to 0% - they could ignore any/all IDs on first scan. This makes the IgnoreID feature driven by training level.
These suggestions make it sound like you only want people with higher skills in scanning to have a manageable time doing so... You sound as bad as Narfas with his love of the old system.
Since there's ranting in here: Requiring combat scanners to scan each and every signal down to 30% before my own filters tell me if its worth chasing after? === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Bullageddon
Originally by: Nyota Sol
----------------------------- (suggestion)
I'd like to repeat my own suggested change to this system:
Require hitting 75% before you can use the IgnoreID options on the applicable IDs. Then make this requirement decrease 10% per Pinpointing skill rank down from 75% - and give DSProbes their own 25% reduction bonus which then makes Astro 5 very valuable).
That means somebody with Pinpointing 5 would have only a 25% requirement for the IgnoreID features, and if they use DSProbes (Astro 5) then it's down to 0% - they could ignore any/all IDs on first scan. This makes the IgnoreID feature driven by training level.
These suggestions make it sound like you only want people with higher skills in scanning to have a manageable time doing so... You sound as bad as Narfas with his love of the old system.
Re-read what i said, please.
1. i am a new player and dont even have the skill levels im suggesting be required for the IgnoreID features so nice try with the personal attack & cynicism.
2. the higher training in astro 5 & pinpointing should mean something for the related professions other than just making something that is easy go faster.
3. im only suggesting this apply to the ignoreID feature. we've been able to scan just fine without it. we'd still have the 100% targets staying 100%. we'd still be able to see the ID column. we'd be able to ignore targets once we hit 75%, and then at lower points as we invest in training. ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Re-read what i said, please.
1. i am a new player and dont even have the skill levels im suggesting be required for the IgnoreID features so nice try with the personal attack & cynicism.
2. the higher training in astro 5 & pinpointing should mean something for the related professions other than just making something that is easy go faster.
3. im only suggesting this apply to the ignoreID feature. we've been able to scan just fine without it. we'd still have the 100% targets staying 100%. we'd still be able to see the ID column. we'd be able to ignore targets once we hit 75%, and then at lower points as we invest in training.
That we've been fine without is your perception and while I agree to an extent (like high-sec scanning is fine and easy), WH-space was hurting and the congestion of exploration sites and time needed to separate and narrow down results was likely a large contributing factor in this.
I believe more than anything now CCP is trying to boost the T3 market and since that is largely dependent on the ease of scanning and clearing out WH systems, that is probably the drive behind these changes. In that sense, I support them all the way.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Delpsi
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Posted - 2009.04.18 05:02:00 -
[38]
Were there other changes in probing with this last update? I had been scanning in a group of systems and regularly seeing 1 to 3 sites in each system. Since the last update, there's been mostly nothing. I've only found one system that had anything for me to probe and it had two sites. One was a mag site that I got to 83% signal strength with 4 probes and that was the best it would do. I launched three more probes and they had almost no effect on signal strength. I believe I got up to 86%. I would have thought another 3 probes would have had a significant effect.
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Lilgeio
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Posted - 2009.04.18 10:42:00 -
[39]
I'm a new player so I can't comment on whether scanning has improved or declined from apoc. I will say I don't like the graphical changes of the spheres or while the scans are functioning. The shading on the spheres makes it very difficult to see the probes inside and the moving inner circles while scanning are way to bright they need to be toned down some. A complaint from vets about high skills and newer players and the ease in scanning down sites would be to increase the amount of exploration sites but make it very difficult or impossible to scan down without a high set of skills and the proper equipment, yet still leave wholes relatively easy to find. This would make w hole exploration still easily accessible yet make radar and mag sites not as accessible unless the skillset was high enough. I will repeat my displeasure of the new scanning graphics and scan bubbles, makes probes hard to see and scanning is distracting now.
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Kraika
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Posted - 2009.04.18 11:44:00 -
[40]
I have another bug since the last patch : when i first use one probe at large range, say i find a nice red bubble. Then i launch one more probe, and the bubble disappears. so i have to guess where the bubble is to place correctly my four probes. Then when it comes to points or circles it's working again (but i also have the bug to see just one point when i should get two).
And yes i find these visual effects ridiculous. Ergonomy has been sacrified on the altar of blink blink. Go back to wow devs, or stop to listen to your commercials.
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MIRAMIRA
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Posted - 2009.04.18 12:59:00 -
[41]
this is why I hate the new system:
1) the probe bubbles are sometimes too dark to see the arrows/widgets
2) often I increase teh size of the probe instead of moving it to another place, because I missclick. (again because of the bad graphics)
3) sometimes the searched plex has a bad position in the system and I end up on the edge of my screen and can not center it, because there is no celestal object close enough, on which I can doubleclick.
4) sometimes I move the probes, think they overlap again, then watch it from another ancle and see, there is a probe far away from the others and there is nothing at all overlapping. This happens of course very often, if 3) happens.
5) I get sometimes 100 % hits, which I can not warp to, then I have to reduce the scan result and approach again.
6) sometimes I get results like bubbles or red circles, try to cover them with my probes, but do not see, I did not cover all, because I take too small probes and did not view it correct again in that fake 3d. Then I get for that scan cycle: no result and can start allover again.
the only reason, why the new system is better than the old: it is faster, because of reduced scan probe speed. Taht was the only real benefit from the new scan system.
everything else is COMPLETE CRAP Also I did not forget, that I have now a bunch of useless Probe BPOs, each 4,5 mil worth.
My suggestion would be, cut the all the crap. I liked the system with red, yellow, green dots - when you could warp to it. You can still make a percentage skala. Like 1-100 % green, then the same with yellow, etc. But stopp playing around with these moronic graphics effects plz. You so suck at it, it is a shame. Also the bubbles of the probes could look very nice, i.e. like POS bubbles. What do we get instead? some bubbles with an ugly raster on it, which desturbes the usability of the probes and looks like computer graphics from the 80ties.
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.18 18:21:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 18/04/2009 18:24:29
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Re-read what i said, please.
1. i am a new player and dont even have the skill levels im suggesting be required for the IgnoreID features so nice try with the personal attack & cynicism.
2. the higher training in astro 5 & pinpointing should mean something for the related professions other than just making something that is easy go faster.
3. im only suggesting this apply to the ignoreID feature. we've been able to scan just fine without it. we'd still have the 100% targets staying 100%. we'd still be able to see the ID column. we'd be able to ignore targets once we hit 75%, and then at lower points as we invest in training.
That we've been fine without is your perception and while I agree to an extent (like high-sec scanning is fine and easy), WH-space was hurting and the congestion of exploration sites and time needed to separate and narrow down results was likely a large contributing factor in this.
I believe more than anything now CCP is trying to boost the T3 market and since that is largely dependent on the ease of scanning and clearing out WH systems, that is probably the drive behind these changes. In that sense, I support them all the way.
I'm not arguing to remove the ability, hence your basic criticism misses completely.
Many folks with high skills have done fine in w-space. So, it's not merely my subjective perception that the addition of the ID Column makes for vast improvements and would be fine by itself. I'm saying the additional features of ignoring IDs should be tied to Pinpointing and Astro skills, so that the features are stronger as you train up.
And yes, i think this is a good way to stir up more activity in w-space but it won't be sufficient. ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Ombey
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.20 10:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: MIRAMIRA
3) sometimes the searched plex has a bad position in the system and I end up on the edge of my screen and can not center it, because there is no celestal object close enough, on which I can doubleclick.
Click on the name of one of your probes, it centres the screen....
2d EveMaps|My blog
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Synnyr
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Posted - 2009.04.20 14:31:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Nyota Sol Edited by: Nyota Sol on 16/04/2009 22:11:32
Spending hours scanning a site down was better?
The only thing "ruined" about exploration seems to be the sense of being special... and the increased competition over LIMITED supplies of radar sites. Competition is good.
If you don't like it... move over.
Let's say you made Agents so that they could only give out one mission every five minutes (total) and everyone could do them. Now you would have 50 people docked in Level IV stations clicking madly to try and be the lucky one to get the mission.
What if you made it so asteroids would only give up ore periodically or perhaps allow combat pilots to fit multiple mining lasers and weapons at the same time? How about reducing the number of asteroids in each system to one belt?
Fun times!
For us old-time explorers the only real opportunity is to go to low-sec space and have a go there. And for the most part even that is too time consuming under the new system. You can run 3 or 4 (or many more) level 4 missions and make so much more than exploration now that it's just not worth the time or risk. As far as the time and millions upon millions of isk you spent in the old system? Gone and essentially useless.
In my case the only thing that would make the new system even palatable would be to give the Deep Space probe multi-spectral capability...and I don't mean looking at a chart and saying: "Gee, that site is a .018 - that means it could be Ladar, Radar, or Gravi!" I mean no-kidding a list of the sites in that system. THEN I wouldn't mind going through the annoyance of using the horrible new system...because at least I'd know if I was wasting my time or not. How about some reward for training Astro to 5? Give us multi-spec back!
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khufo
Minmatar Malevolent Evolution The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.20 14:49:00 -
[45]
Edited by: khufo on 20/04/2009 14:49:33
Originally by: Dixi Zi Scanning looks bugged atm. When I get 3 probes on a signature should be two red dots. I see only one. When I drop two probes on a signature, and they do not connect, I should get two signals, clicking each should paint red sphere. When I do it, I see only one sphere. Other seems lost as well.
Same Problem any workarounds yet?
Khufo, Son of Ra, the Lord of the two lands, the beloved of Hathor, given stability forever |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.20 14:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Synnyr
Originally by: Nyota Sol Edited by: Nyota Sol on 16/04/2009 22:11:32
Spending hours scanning a site down was better?
The only thing "ruined" about exploration seems to be the sense of being special... and the increased competition over LIMITED supplies of radar sites. Competition is good.
If you don't like it... move over.
Let's say you made Agents so that they could only give out one mission every five minutes (total) and everyone could do them. Now you would have 50 people docked in Level IV stations clicking madly to try and be the lucky one to get the mission.
This analogy would work only if it required 2 hours to successfully click on an agent.
Originally by: Synnyr
What if you made it so asteroids would only give up ore periodically or perhaps allow combat pilots to fit multiple mining lasers and weapons at the same time? How about reducing the number of asteroids in each system to one belt?
And this analogy would require making each asteroid take 24 hours to mine.
Originally by: Synnyr
Fun times!
For us old-time explorers the only real opportunity is to go to low-sec space and have a go there. And for the most part even that is too time consuming under the new system. You can run 3 or 4 (or many more) level 4 missions and make so much more than exploration now that it's just not worth the time or risk. As far as the time and millions upon millions of isk you spent in the old system? Gone and essentially useless.
In my case the only thing that would make the new system even palatable would be to give the Deep Space probe multi-spectral capability...and I don't mean looking at a chart and saying: "Gee, that site is a .018 - that means it could be Ladar, Radar, or Gravi!" I mean no-kidding a list of the sites in that system. THEN I wouldn't mind going through the annoyance of using the horrible new system...because at least I'd know if I was wasting my time or not. How about some reward for training Astro to 5? Give us multi-spec back!
Your complaint is that missioning is worth more for your time, but you don't see the irony in this?
As for rewards for astro 5 and such, i absolutely agree.
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Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Helene Troi
Gallente Crimson Umbra
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:16:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Helene Troi on 20/04/2009 20:16:37 Can we have the old bubbles back so i can see to select my widgets please ccp???
The new bubbles have made scanning annoying...
All else is good.
Thrasher for level Three Missions! Rogue drone harrassment. Portal to War 1 and 5. The Missing Convoy. |
Spazzbot
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:25:00 -
[48]
CCP really needs to fix the graphical bugs that appear when viewing the scanning interface with a low shader setting. I run EVE on a low end laptop and cannot turn my settings up very high. With these low settings, the probe widgets all but disappear whenever I move the probe in question under the plane of the solar system (it seems to be occluded by the shadow). In any case, at this rate I have a headache after 5 mins of scanning.
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Millimage
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.04.21 07:35:00 -
[49]
I only got to test the 1.1 scanning last night and it certainly feels more difficult.
Ship scanning for specific types was nigh impossible for me since the filters don't work until you hit 25%. My skills aren't maxed out but they aren't exactly noob level either, so it'll be a barrier for ship scanning when starting out. This should probably cut down ninja salvaging a bit.
Scanning for exploration sites seemed bugged out. I was vexed by the already mentioned red dot bug, which caused positioning probes to be a pain. I would often position them on the single dot only to lose signal altogether and be forced to back out one range to get the signal again. Of course it's pretty much 50-50 chance of hitting the correct dot so you might not suffer all the time, but it's still a pain.
The ID's are all good and fine and while I don't particularly like the new sphere graphics they weren't a problem for me. Remote bookmarking is a bliss and should have been there all along.
The funny thing is that scanning seemed more fun to me when it was made harder by the bugs and all. Getting a fix on the site after being made to really work for it made it all the more sweeter.
In that sense I hope CCP can somehow make scanning a bit harder, although I suppose bugs aren't the correct way.
______________________
My EVE blog |
Wile Fett
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:54:00 -
[50]
well thats that... CCP suxx ass!!
what just happened to the post i took 20 minutes over writing to find an 'internal error' didnt allow me to post it, only to find i couldnt retry because it also deleted what i had just written!
SORT IT OUT, game's bugged and the forums are bugged! |
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Damien Du'Pont
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Posted - 2009.06.14 21:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Wile Fett well thats that... CCP suxx ass!!
what just happened to the post i took 20 minutes over writing to find an 'internal error' didnt allow me to post it, only to find i couldnt retry because it also deleted what i had just written!
SORT IT OUT, game's bugged and the forums are bugged!
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