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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.15 16:05:00 -
[1]
http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=186
- New wireframe graphic for probe widgets that is less bright and more distinct.
- New scanning effects.
- ID column on scan results shows specific ID of every target site. This applies to hidden cosmic sites as well as ships, drones, structures, etc.
- A target ID scanned to 100% will stay 100% in future scans (this does not apply to SHIPS). This may include multiple scan targets.
- You can ignore specific IDs or "ignore other results." Right-click on a scan result to activate these 2 choices. Once anything is ignored, the filter menu includes an option to show all ignored IDs. It also allows you to un-ignore specific IDs in a 2nd drop-down menu. This gives the explorer considerable new power.
- You can remotely bookmark 100% "warpable" targets (i.e. without going there).
Yes, this makes the process of managing a lot of targets much, much easier.
That's what I've seen on test. Will update with anything else we pull out of notes or experience. Last I checked, there was at least 1 bug with split scan results but I haven't checked today's release candidate on the test server.
----------------------------- (suggestion)
I'd like to repeat my own suggested change to this system:
Require hitting 75% before you can use the IgnoreID options on the applicable IDs. Then make this requirement decrease 10% per Pinpointing skill rank down from 75% - and give DSProbes their own 25% reduction bonus which then makes Astro 5 very valuable).
That means somebody with Pinpointing 5 would have only a 25% requirement for the IgnoreID features, and if they use DSProbes (Astro 5) then it's down to 0% - they could ignore any/all IDs on first scan. This makes the IgnoreID feature driven by training level.
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Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Lady Spank
Amarr
Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.04.16 09:17:00 -
[2]
You've already made the topic so I will add this here...
 Quote:
Abnormalities between scan strength curve vs. scan range have now been fixed. Dropping a scanner probe to a lower scan range will no longer degrade your signal result. For example, if you are 3.9 au from a ship and drop a 8 AU probe and scan, then drop a 4 AU probe and repeat the scan, the result of the 4 AU scan will always be greater or equal to that of the 8AU scan.
I swear this is the reason some signatures have been impossible to track down. Noticeable when thereÆs more than about 4 sigs in close proximity. IÆve noticed what seemed like some pretty wild, and plain wrong, scan deviations which have led to previously scanned results no matter how careful IÆve been.
Quote:
It is now possible to bookmark a 100% signature hit remotely via right click in the context menu. In addition, the scanner will remember signatures which were scanned at 100% so that they are not lost on subsequent scans.
This might be making things a little too easy, but it makes perfect sense. ThereÆs times IÆve been waiting patiently to get on with another scan because I canÆt warp my cov ops in and bm a previous site. For w-space where you absolutely donÆt want to lose your prober this is feature #1 of the patch.
Quote:
Every scan result will now get a unique ID allowing you to manage and sort scan results with greater ease. You can now filter this unique ID and ignore all other results when scanning for certain signatures.
Ship probing boost! And generally makes scanning easier, although it dumbs the process down a bit too much for my liking.
Quote:
Switching to the directional scanner window while a probe scan is in progress will no longer result in no legitimate results from being displayed.
The fact it was doing this didnÆt occur to me, possibly missed so many plexes as a result, assuming it was every time you do this. At least itÆs been fixed.
Quote:
Sorting probes by ID number will now correctly list them from 1-10 or 10-1 depending on setting.
Naming or colour coding them would be more intuitive but any fix is good.
Quote:
Using the right click option along with ctrl or shift on multiple probes now works properly. Previously this would only allow you to take action on one probe instead of multiple probes.
I was getting by with ctrl+shift+right click but again, a fix is a fix. Anything to make scanning less of a CTS inducing click nÆ drag fest is appreciated.
Quote:
Any probes that are active but do not expire during a scan process will become stuck in a moving state and cannot be interacted with until they expire. Newly launched probes can now be used to scan correctly without displaying a warning notice that active probes are still in use.
Wormholes will always appear correctly when scanned down. Previously there were some instances where the wormhole graphic would not appear.
Tech III: The fourth electronic subsystem will provide bonus to equip an expanded probe launcher and gain a 10% scan strength bonus to probes per level
# The "Show Hint" option will now appear correctly for the scanner probe in the solar system map.
The directional scanner has once again has the option to right click on a scan result and add/remove to overview and show info.
The directional scanner will now display scan results correctly when sorted by name, type or distance.
The number of gas and ore sites in wormhole space has been reduced to remove unnecessary results in the scanner. The new system will have more concentrated gas and bigger asteroids in the remaining sites to compensate.
The Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I and blueprint I, Core Scanner Probe I and blueprint I and Deep Space Scanner Probe I and blueprint I have had the "I" removed to represent the proper faction variant....
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.04.16 09:17:00 -
[3]
Quote:
The tutorial for Exploration has been changed to include more up to date and useful information regarding scanning mechanics.
The scanner will no longer get stuck when trying to scan with an offline scan probe launcher.
An error will no longer be generated in the logserver when opening the scanner window.
A grammatical error has been corrected in the notify message displayed when attempting to reload probes into a launcher when no probes are available in the cargo hold.
Analyzing with probes of any kind (Combat, Core or Deep Space) will no longer generate an exception error.
Scan filters when probing for ships are now working as intended.
The "beep" which is generated when using a scanning device has now been fixed. The sound will no longer continue to play if you dock or jump out of the system before the scan has completed.
Also, while the new Red Dwarf mini series was rather disappointing, it appears to share sound effects with the scanning system in eve.
That is all.
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Devlan Khain
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Posted - 2009.04.16 11:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Quote:
The "beep" which is generated when using a scanning device has now been fixed. The sound will no longer continue to play if you dock or jump out of the system before the scan has completed.
Also, while the new Red Dwarf mini series was rather disappointing, it appears to share sound effects with the scanning system in eve.
That is all.
And here I was thinking I was the only person who noticed that. I was sitting watching Red Dwarf and was being driven mad trying to work out where I recognized that sound effect from.
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La Gloria
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Posted - 2009.04.16 14:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Ship probing boost! And generally makes scanning easier, although it dumbs the process down a bit too much for my liking.
I was thinking this too... But I'm sure I'll get over my tricks for doing it the old-hard way when it takes me a fraction of the time to scan down a system. All in all sounds good.
I'm just hopeing for a stealth-patch in the sig spawns in Wormholes with a POS.
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:11:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 16/04/2009 17:15:45
fyi - IDs seem to be client and session independent but not quite "universal." This means 2 players should get the same ID on a target but this gets tricky with combat scanning.
From earlier testing on Sisi server:
- Player1 in Ship1 in System1 seems to always have same ID.
- Player1 in Ship1 in System2 gets a different ID.
- Player1 in Ship2 in System1 gets a different ID.
In other words, the ID for the player/ship will change in a new system or with a different ship. The code seems to be derived by a combination of system, ship and pilot IDs.
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Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:39:00 -
[7]
BUG:
Pre-existing filters may not work initially. Opening, editing and re-saving them will reset each filter.
BUG:
Probe widgets have shader effects and shadows making them extremely hard to utilize on some systems and settings.
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Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
BUG:
Pre-existing filters may not work initially. Opening, editing and re-saving them will reset each filter.
BUG:
Probe widgets have shader effects and shadows making them extremely hard to utilize on some systems and settings.
Yeah, I can barely see through the new probe bubbles to see my widgets.
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Dixi Zi
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:56:00 -
[9]
1. New Probe bubbles - SUXXX!!!
Can't see anything inside.
2. Scanning visualisation - very annoying blinking. Remove it at all or let us switch it off, please.
3. Where is at last "Cosmic Anomaly" filter checkbox? Still have to switch to "show all" to see them.
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Dixi Zi
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Posted - 2009.04.16 19:21:00 -
[10]
Scanning looks bugged atm.
When I get 3 probes on a signature should be two red dots. I see only one.
When I drop two probes on a signature, and they do not connect, I should get two signals, clicking each should paint red sphere. When I do it, I see only one sphere. Other seems lost as well.
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Dixi Zi
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Posted - 2009.04.16 19:39:00 -
[11]
Do ppl who design and impement probe scanning have enough time to test what they create? I wish they have to scan with what they make like 3+ hours non stop, before changes goes live...
All those less transparent textures on probe bubbles, scanning animation... What the hell all that for? To make one's eyes hurt?
Simple spheres, like there were before Apocryptica, no scanning animation, PLUS correctly working filters and no bugs - thats what I'm dreaming about.
Dixi
PS From my point of view, pre-apocryptica scanning was much better, but I afraid that no one will roll it back...
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2009.04.16 19:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dixi Zi
PS From my point of view, pre-apocryptica scanning was much better, but I afraid that no one will roll it back...
Yea, there was "feeling" of exploration. Nice niche mini-profession. Not for everyone.
Then CCP destroyed this profession, made it mainstream, dumbed it to hell and back and then dumbed it again.
This is not exploration anymore. This is moving damn balls faster then all other people on local.
Forget about knowledge, skills, patience, investments and feeling that you are doing something unique. Just move these widgets closer.
Unbelievable, this is way more boring then clicking "scan" every 2 minutes like before Apocrypha.
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Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.16 20:47:00 -
[13]
Folks who can't see their probe widgets inside multiple bubbles: I've discovered that it's intensely dependent on your graphics settings. I turned all of mine up to high, and the widgets are visible; but at lower settings (especially lower shader settings I think) they vanish.
I fear CCP forgot to keep the new content compatible with lower-end hardware, this time.
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Ironfleet.com |
Dixi Zi
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Marlenus
it's intensely dependent on your graphics settings. I turned all of mine up to high, and the widgets are visible; but at lower settings (especially lower shader settings I think) they vanish.
If I turn everything high it does not run smoothly 4 clients. Actually graphic FPS and occational lags become a problem since cancelation of Classic cilent support. It works so-so on all medium settings, but for 3 clients. Also classic client when minimized, behaved himself almost like closed appication - consumed no resources and didn't affected FPS on other windows. Can't say same about Premium clients now :-(
Originally by: Marlenus
I fear CCP forgot to keep the new content compatible with lower-end hardware, this time.
Umm ATi 4850 or nVidia GT 8800 already become low-end hardware? ;-)
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Dixi Zi
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Then CCP destroyed this profession, made it mainstream, dumbed it to hell and back and then dumbed it again.
...
Forget about knowledge, skills, patience, investments and feeling that you are doing something unique. Just move these widgets closer.
Yes it's really disappointing.
I wish they made exploration harder. I mean more complex. I still beleave that EVE is unique game because good strategic planning and understanding what you are doing leads to success in this game, not fast clicking or dumb repeatable actions (witch still preset).
Yes, some actions in this game takes time, but if played in multi-account mode, as most ppl do, it's ok.
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Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dixi Zi
Umm ATi 4850 or nVidia GT 8800 already become low-end hardware? ;-)
When you're trying to run four clients it is...
No, seriously, the reason I discovered that settings matter is that before the patch, I often had two or three clients going, and it was easier to leave all my settings low. Now I've pretty much got to turn them up on whichever client I'm using for scanning.
Frankly I don't expect CCP to create a client that will run four instances at high settings on average gaming hardware; two would be nice, but I'm perfectly willing to keep settings low in exchange for running multiple clients.
What I don't like is having functionality go away when I do that. Plus, I have some pity for folks who are running old laptops and such, who don't have the option of turning the settings all the way up.
And thus, my crack: it sounds like CCP forgot to make sure the new content was functional for folks who are stuck at less-than-high graphics settings. Not me, and not you, Mr. Four Clients. ;-)
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Ironfleet.com |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.16 22:08:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 16/04/2009 22:11:32
Spending hours scanning a site down was better?
There's a funny myth that thousands of WoW players came into Eve and trained CovertOps/Codebreaker in a few hours, then went out and stripped thousands of radar sites that nobody has previously found in highsec... flooding the markets with cheap goods in the days after apoc's release. 
In the handful of cases i've seen prices drop on exploration goods, i noticed most of them were dropping before apoc or right at it's release. That indicates folks were dumping stockpiles as part of a run on the market, not due to some explosion in new supplies.
The only thing "ruined" about exploration seems to be the sense of being special... and the increased competition over LIMITED supplies of radar sites. Competition is good.
If you don't like it... move over. 
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Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2009.04.17 01:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 16/04/2009 22:11:32
Spending hours scanning a site down was better?
Sure, because that was nice time for speculations whats there (and also checking directional, checking market, chating, preparing better bookmarks and so on). Now that's just repetitive and brainless moving spheres closer and closer.
Originally by: Nyota Sol
There's a funny myth that thousands of WoW players came into Eve and trained CovertOps/Codebreaker in a few hours, then went out and stripped thousands of radar sites that nobody has previously found in highsec... flooding the markets with cheap goods in the days after apoc's release.
Well, I would say number of explorers increased after Apocrypha. Don't you agree with that?
Originally by: Nyota Sol
In the handful of cases i've seen prices drop on exploration goods, i noticed most of them were dropping before apoc or right at it's release. That indicates folks were dumping stockpiles as part of a run on the market, not due to some explosion in new supplies.
Prices od decryptors dropped by ~40% in 2-3 weeks after Apocrypha. Most sell orders that's 2-10 decryptors. It doesn't seem to be "stockpile".
Originally by: Nyota Sol
The only thing "ruined" about exploration seems to be the sense of being special... and the increased competition over LIMITED supplies of radar sites. Competition is good.
If you don't like it... move over.
Sure. I enjoyed exploration, invested my time and ISKs to be good in this profession and then CCP dumbed exploration to hell, gave everything for free, and you call it "competition"?
There's just no content for dedicated explorers. New exploration is extremely boring and repetitive. There's no challenge (except dealing with graphical mess and clunky interface). Exploration is now mainly about shooting things up because scanning is only formality. And if there are no skills nor personal abilities involved in exploration anymore there's no competition. Come on, there's more competition in mining veld.
Ah yes, and last thing: supplies of radar sites are NOT limited.
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.17 03:05:00 -
[19]
I was under the impression that there is a quota/cap on radar spawns for a given constellation or region, and that it wont automatically respawn a new one right away. I assume that folks pre-apoc were doing a fairly decent job clearing out Empire's spawns. Hence i question this idea there was some massive increase in supplies... from people who just suddenly decided to start training or doing exploration because it was so easy.
Did they change the rates of loot?
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Originally by: Nyota Sol
In the handful of cases i've seen prices drop on exploration goods, i noticed most of them were dropping before apoc or right at it's release. That indicates folks were dumping stockpiles as part of a run on the market, not due to some explosion in new supplies.
Prices od decryptors dropped by ~40% in 2-3 weeks after Apocrypha. Most sell orders that's 2-10 decryptors. It doesn't seem to be "stockpile".
Look at 1 year market charts for every single decryptor.
Prices were decreasing 1-2 months prior to apoc (having shot up in nov 08). Demand also started going up after apoc. Mix various factors and people being irrational, and you get a natural additional decline.
In most cases, prices are about where they were a year ago, having peeked in november, while demand seems to be stronger than a year ago.
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Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2009.04.17 07:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Sure. I enjoyed exploration, invested my time and ISKs to be good in this profession and then CCP dumbed exploration to hell, gave everything for free, and you call it "competition"?
There's just no content for dedicated explorers. New exploration is extremely boring and repetitive. There's no challenge (except dealing with graphical mess and clunky interface).
Lol. Seriously. LOL.
The old system was not about skill or ability. its was about having enough time to sit around waiting for the result. ANY idiot could do it. Tell me where the skill and knowledge came into the old system!?! You dropped quest probes at planets, (we all know sites are within 4AU of a planet) scanned until a hit, drop probe there, scan until hit, repeat. No skill required, just time.
The new system at least require you to know just a bit about triangulation. I agree that the new 1.1 patch ID system makes it a bit too easy, but thats the only flaw I see in the new system. At least I have to be active at the screen while probing not just ding it semi afk pressing the scan button every few minutes.
It not flawless, but it requires abit more activity than the old system, which tbh I dont think is a bad thing.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Trisy A
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Posted - 2009.04.17 07:49:00 -
[21]
About "activity of button pressing" in exploration.
Yes, it was better before. Cheking results and pressing a button once a few minutes fit in EVE playstyle much more then moving bubbles non stop.
When one drives a freighter, mine with a Hulk, even manage his sell/buy orders - all those activities are on same plan and time table: correct plan 1st, then you sit & press a few buttons once in a few minutes. Usually once in 2-3 minutes (exact time intervals depends ...).
From gameplay point of view correct probe placement was more challengeble then moving bubbles now.
And about profit. Exploration was not only for profit. Combat Deadspace complexes - that's the only ineresting and challengeble combat thing for PVE combat play.
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ollobrains
Caldari State Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.17 08:08:00 -
[22]
please after the dsp nerf leave the id system as is once u have an id leave it.
Other option is randomise them but no 50% chance rubbish makes it a little easier. Both for probers pve types and pvpers seeking pve targets. U still need to whip out the cores and what not giving targets time to escape
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Morscerta
Gallente
Living in the Fridge
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Posted - 2009.04.17 08:11:00 -
[23]
Ok back to topic and less this idiotic, it was way better in the past. And for the record I have used both systems extensively and prefer this one. However it still could be tweaked.
First Questions:
- Do ignored IDs stay ignored just for the session or do they stay ignored (did not have time to test yesterday)?
- Did it say in the patch notes that they are going to change names of the sites in WH-Space?
- Did anybody notice a change in spawn triggers?
- How are IDs for Grav, Ladar, etc. derived (to be specific if I ignore ID ASM-399 which happens to be a common perimeter grav site, do I ignore then all Grav sites or do I ignore just common perimeter grav sites?)
Facts:
- The new bubbles make scanning with more than four probes even harder than before
- The new ignore feature is great and I do not want any adjustments to it (except maybe make it only available at Astrometrics 5 so all the noob explorers can't use it  )
- Bookmarking at 100% is marvelous and should have been implemented from the start
- I also suffer from the price drop in decryptors but as they come for free and I have no cost aquiring them accept time value for money therefore I and probably all other "dedicated explorers" will not go bankrupt. (Especially when the occasional Vigilant BPC drops )
And to whine a little myself
- Give me Strength 20 on my deep space back, I like to be done in WH-Space in 5 minutes. I think 15 min is just way too much
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ollobrains
Caldari State Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.17 08:18:00 -
[24]
ID stay ignored only while in system if u log or jump thro wh they reset but u can bm sites remotley now so if u go back well u get the idea 0.25au and if its the sig u move on
spawn triggers have changed on a few sites
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2009.04.17 08:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Trisy A
About "activity of button pressing" in exploration.
Yes, it was better before. Cheking results and pressing a button once a few minutes fit in EVE playstyle much more then moving bubbles non stop.
When one drives a freighter, mine with a Hulk, even manage his sell/buy orders - all those activities are on same plan and time table: correct plan 1st, then you sit & press a few buttons once in a few minutes. Usually once in 2-3 minutes (exact time intervals depends ...).
Buy/seel does not fit here. As for mining and flying around, these things take time due to game balance issues.
Scanning do now have reduced time requirements (but certainly not zero time) which opens up the opputunity for CCP to move more content into exploration mode. (I would welcome a move to put belts in as exporation only.)
Originally by: Trisy A
From gameplay point of view correct probe placement was more challengeble then moving bubbles now.
How could you place it wrong? Sites are within 4 AU of a planet. Place the probe at planets. You couldn't mess it up in any way or form. (Ok, you could save a few isk by making optimal scan spots between planets, but that was more greed driven than need driven.) Now at least you have to think about how you set up your probes to catch the signal. Saying that the old system required any kind of player skill is rubbish. It did not!
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.17 09:29:00 -
[26]
Sensible additions ( well, the probe graphics makes my eyes water a little :P ). Now just tweak the strength of everything so training matters a little more & it'll be gold.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.04.17 10:00:00 -
[27]
Back to FAQ editing.... 
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Morscerta
Gallente
Living in the Fridge
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Posted - 2009.04.17 10:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Back to FAQ editing....
And probably will not be the last time...
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Kambiri Zoltana
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.17 10:39:00 -
[29]
I kinda like the new system, only getting some lagg spikes when zoooming up close on the probes which I hadn't experienced before. For the rest I like the new changes with the ID, the new spheres dont bother me that much.
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Sarina Berghil
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dixi Zi
Scanning looks bugged atm.
When I get 3 probes on a signature should be two red dots. I see only one.
When I drop two probes on a signature, and they do not connect, I should get two signals, clicking each should paint red sphere. When I do it, I see only one sphere. Other seems lost as well.
I can confirm this bug. When one signature gives 2 results in the list, only one of them will ever show up in the system map.
The best workaround atm seems to be to turn off a probe to get a circle instead.
Also for me it is very hard to see or move the probes around with the new effects. Although they do look pretty.
The feature to filter results is almost necessary to make scanning work in environments with a lot of results. But I do agree that it makes it a bit too easy mode sometimes. The suggestion to only allow filtering and only give IDs on signatures that have been scanned to a certain percentage makes sense, both from a gameplay perspective and a 'tech' perspective. After all the system would need enough information about a signature to be able to identify it during subsequent scans.
Also having IDs that are unique between characters and ships would be useful to make it easier to coordinate with other players scanning. If the IDs are hidden until a certain percentage is reached, it would still be somewhat limited.
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Mojihito
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mojihito on 17/04/2009 11:20:05
Originally by: Qual
Now at least you have to think about how you set up your probes to catch the signal.
Sory but theres no thinking to be done , its a monkey job and its very tedious .
Originally by: Qual
How could you place it wrong? Sites are within 4 AU of a planet. Place the probe at planets. You couldn't mess it up in any way or form. (Ok, you could save a few isk by making optimal scan spots between planets, but that was more greed driven than need driven.) Now at least you have to think about how you set up your probes to catch the signal. Saying that the old system required any kind of player skill is rubbish. It did not!
Actually good placing probes mattered = overlapping .
Back to topic :
I wonder if signals ID have any meaning or it is all bunch of random digits.
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Sarina Berghil
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Morscerta
- How are IDs for Grav, Ladar, etc. derived (to be specific if I ignore ID ASM-399 which happens to be a common perimeter grav site, do I ignore then all Grav sites or do I ignore just common perimeter grav sites?)
I don't know how the IDs are derived but if you ignore a site, you only ignore that particular site. All other common perimeter grav sites will still show up.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:37:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Then CCP destroyed this profession, made it mainstream, dumbed it to hell and back and then dumbed it again.
This is not exploration anymore. This is moving damn balls faster then all other people on local.
Forget about knowledge, skills, patience, investments and feeling
Where was the skill before? In having more patience than most?
Now the basic system is easy to grasp and quick to use...
... you can cry a river over the golden past or leave the legions of high sec "explorers" behind and go discover in low sec or better. There the legions of wannabe explorers won't follow.
Quote:
Well, I would say number of explorers increased after Apocrypha. Don't you agree with that?
The number of stealth bomber pilots dramatically increased since yesterday. We are booooneeeeedddd!
Oh wait, new fads eventually turn old and things slowly return to "normal".
Apocrypha pushed people to try exploration due to the new mechanics and due to worm holes.
Now, from "WOW I FOUND A WORM HOLE IN THIS 0.9 sec system!!!" we slowly got to "YAWN another WH, couldn't they remove some of them and add more ladar / radar sites?" already.
Give it a pair of months and you'll have your e-exclusive system mostly back to yours truly.
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Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:54:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Qual on 17/04/2009 12:54:36
Originally by: Mojihito
Actually good placing probes mattered = overlapping .
Sorry but there was no thinking to be done, it was a monkey job and was very tedious.
Goes both ways you see. Besides the old system would yield result in either case sooner or later, the new wont. So the old one worked better in brainless mode thatn the new one.
But I guess that is the real problem...
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.17 14:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
----------------------------- (suggestion)
I'd like to repeat my own suggested change to this system:
Require hitting 75% before you can use the IgnoreID options on the applicable IDs. Then make this requirement decrease 10% per Pinpointing skill rank down from 75% - and give DSProbes their own 25% reduction bonus which then makes Astro 5 very valuable).
That means somebody with Pinpointing 5 would have only a 25% requirement for the IgnoreID features, and if they use DSProbes (Astro 5) then it's down to 0% - they could ignore any/all IDs on first scan. This makes the IgnoreID feature driven by training level.
These suggestions make it sound like you only want people with higher skills in scanning to have a manageable time doing so... You sound as bad as Narfas with his love of the old system.
Since there's ranting in here: Requiring combat scanners to scan each and every signal down to 30% before my own filters tell me if its worth chasing after? 
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This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:07:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Bullageddon
Originally by: Nyota Sol
----------------------------- (suggestion)
I'd like to repeat my own suggested change to this system:
Require hitting 75% before you can use the IgnoreID options on the applicable IDs. Then make this requirement decrease 10% per Pinpointing skill rank down from 75% - and give DSProbes their own 25% reduction bonus which then makes Astro 5 very valuable).
That means somebody with Pinpointing 5 would have only a 25% requirement for the IgnoreID features, and if they use DSProbes (Astro 5) then it's down to 0% - they could ignore any/all IDs on first scan. This makes the IgnoreID feature driven by training level.
These suggestions make it sound like you only want people with higher skills in scanning to have a manageable time doing so... You sound as bad as Narfas with his love of the old system.
Re-read what i said, please.
1. i am a new player and dont even have the skill levels im suggesting be required for the IgnoreID features so nice try with the personal attack & cynicism.
2. the higher training in astro 5 & pinpointing should mean something for the related professions other than just making something that is easy go faster.
3. im only suggesting this apply to the ignoreID feature. we've been able to scan just fine without it. we'd still have the 100% targets staying 100%. we'd still be able to see the ID column. we'd be able to ignore targets once we hit 75%, and then at lower points as we invest in training.
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Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Re-read what i said, please.
1. i am a new player and dont even have the skill levels im suggesting be required for the IgnoreID features so nice try with the personal attack & cynicism.
2. the higher training in astro 5 & pinpointing should mean something for the related professions other than just making something that is easy go faster.
3. im only suggesting this apply to the ignoreID feature. we've been able to scan just fine without it. we'd still have the 100% targets staying 100%. we'd still be able to see the ID column. we'd be able to ignore targets once we hit 75%, and then at lower points as we invest in training.
That we've been fine without is your perception and while I agree to an extent (like high-sec scanning is fine and easy), WH-space was hurting and the congestion of exploration sites and time needed to separate and narrow down results was likely a large contributing factor in this.
I believe more than anything now CCP is trying to boost the T3 market and since that is largely dependent on the ease of scanning and clearing out WH systems, that is probably the drive behind these changes. In that sense, I support them all the way.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Delpsi
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Posted - 2009.04.18 05:02:00 -
[38]
Were there other changes in probing with this last update? I had been scanning in a group of systems and regularly seeing 1 to 3 sites in each system. Since the last update, there's been mostly nothing. I've only found one system that had anything for me to probe and it had two sites. One was a mag site that I got to 83% signal strength with 4 probes and that was the best it would do. I launched three more probes and they had almost no effect on signal strength. I believe I got up to 86%. I would have thought another 3 probes would have had a significant effect.
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Lilgeio
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Posted - 2009.04.18 10:42:00 -
[39]
I'm a new player so I can't comment on whether scanning has improved or declined from apoc. I will say I don't like the graphical changes of the spheres or while the scans are functioning. The shading on the spheres makes it very difficult to see the probes inside and the moving inner circles while scanning are way to bright they need to be toned down some. A complaint from vets about high skills and newer players and the ease in scanning down sites would be to increase the amount of exploration sites but make it very difficult or impossible to scan down without a high set of skills and the proper equipment, yet still leave wholes relatively easy to find. This would make w hole exploration still easily accessible yet make radar and mag sites not as accessible unless the skillset was high enough. I will repeat my displeasure of the new scanning graphics and scan bubbles, makes probes hard to see and scanning is distracting now.
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Kraika
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Posted - 2009.04.18 11:44:00 -
[40]
I have another bug since the last patch : when i first use one probe at large range, say i find a nice red bubble. Then i launch one more probe, and the bubble disappears. so i have to guess where the bubble is to place correctly my four probes. Then when it comes to points or circles it's working again (but i also have the bug to see just one point when i should get two).
And yes i find these visual effects ridiculous. Ergonomy has been sacrified on the altar of blink blink. Go back to wow devs, or stop to listen to your commercials.
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MIRAMIRA
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Posted - 2009.04.18 12:59:00 -
[41]
this is why I hate the new system:
1) the probe bubbles are sometimes too dark to see the arrows/widgets
2) often I increase teh size of the probe instead of moving it to another place, because I missclick. (again because of the bad graphics)
3) sometimes the searched plex has a bad position in the system and I end up on the edge of my screen and can not center it, because there is no celestal object close enough, on which I can doubleclick.
4) sometimes I move the probes, think they overlap again, then watch it from another ancle and see, there is a probe far away from the others and there is nothing at all overlapping. This happens of course very often, if 3) happens.
5) I get sometimes 100 % hits, which I can not warp to, then I have to reduce the scan result and approach again.
6) sometimes I get results like bubbles or red circles, try to cover them with my probes, but do not see, I did not cover all, because I take too small probes and did not view it correct again in that fake 3d. Then I get for that scan cycle: no result and can start allover again.
the only reason, why the new system is better than the old: it is faster, because of reduced scan probe speed. Taht was the only real benefit from the new scan system.
everything else is COMPLETE CRAP Also I did not forget, that I have now a bunch of useless Probe BPOs, each 4,5 mil worth.
My suggestion would be, cut the all the crap. I liked the system with red, yellow, green dots - when you could warp to it. You can still make a percentage skala. Like 1-100 % green, then the same with yellow, etc. But stopp playing around with these moronic graphics effects plz. You so suck at it, it is a shame. Also the bubbles of the probes could look very nice, i.e. like POS bubbles. What do we get instead? some bubbles with an ugly raster on it, which desturbes the usability of the probes and looks like computer graphics from the 80ties.
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.18 18:21:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 18/04/2009 18:24:29
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Re-read what i said, please.
1. i am a new player and dont even have the skill levels im suggesting be required for the IgnoreID features so nice try with the personal attack & cynicism.
2. the higher training in astro 5 & pinpointing should mean something for the related professions other than just making something that is easy go faster.
3. im only suggesting this apply to the ignoreID feature. we've been able to scan just fine without it. we'd still have the 100% targets staying 100%. we'd still be able to see the ID column. we'd be able to ignore targets once we hit 75%, and then at lower points as we invest in training.
That we've been fine without is your perception and while I agree to an extent (like high-sec scanning is fine and easy), WH-space was hurting and the congestion of exploration sites and time needed to separate and narrow down results was likely a large contributing factor in this.
I believe more than anything now CCP is trying to boost the T3 market and since that is largely dependent on the ease of scanning and clearing out WH systems, that is probably the drive behind these changes. In that sense, I support them all the way.
I'm not arguing to remove the ability, hence your basic criticism misses completely.
Many folks with high skills have done fine in w-space. So, it's not merely my subjective perception that the addition of the ID Column makes for vast improvements and would be fine by itself. I'm saying the additional features of ignoring IDs should be tied to Pinpointing and Astro skills, so that the features are stronger as you train up.
And yes, i think this is a good way to stir up more activity in w-space but it won't be sufficient.
___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Ombey
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.20 10:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: MIRAMIRA
3) sometimes the searched plex has a bad position in the system and I end up on the edge of my screen and can not center it, because there is no celestal object close enough, on which I can doubleclick.
Click on the name of one of your probes, it centres the screen....
2d EveMaps|My blog
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Synnyr
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Posted - 2009.04.20 14:31:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 16/04/2009 22:11:32
Spending hours scanning a site down was better?
The only thing "ruined" about exploration seems to be the sense of being special... and the increased competition over LIMITED supplies of radar sites. Competition is good.
If you don't like it... move over.
Let's say you made Agents so that they could only give out one mission every five minutes (total) and everyone could do them. Now you would have 50 people docked in Level IV stations clicking madly to try and be the lucky one to get the mission.
What if you made it so asteroids would only give up ore periodically or perhaps allow combat pilots to fit multiple mining lasers and weapons at the same time? How about reducing the number of asteroids in each system to one belt?
Fun times!
For us old-time explorers the only real opportunity is to go to low-sec space and have a go there. And for the most part even that is too time consuming under the new system. You can run 3 or 4 (or many more) level 4 missions and make so much more than exploration now that it's just not worth the time or risk. As far as the time and millions upon millions of isk you spent in the old system? Gone and essentially useless.
In my case the only thing that would make the new system even palatable would be to give the Deep Space probe multi-spectral capability...and I don't mean looking at a chart and saying: "Gee, that site is a .018 - that means it could be Ladar, Radar, or Gravi!" I mean no-kidding a list of the sites in that system. THEN I wouldn't mind going through the annoyance of using the horrible new system...because at least I'd know if I was wasting my time or not. How about some reward for training Astro to 5? Give us multi-spec back!
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khufo
Minmatar
Malevolent Evolution
The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.20 14:49:00 -
[45]
Edited by: khufo on 20/04/2009 14:49:33
Originally by: Dixi Zi
Scanning looks bugged atm.
When I get 3 probes on a signature should be two red dots. I see only one.
When I drop two probes on a signature, and they do not connect, I should get two signals, clicking each should paint red sphere. When I do it, I see only one sphere. Other seems lost as well.
Same Problem any workarounds yet?
Khufo, Son of Ra, the Lord of the two lands, the beloved of Hathor, given stability forever |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 14:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Synnyr
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 16/04/2009 22:11:32
Spending hours scanning a site down was better?
The only thing "ruined" about exploration seems to be the sense of being special... and the increased competition over LIMITED supplies of radar sites. Competition is good.
If you don't like it... move over.
Let's say you made Agents so that they could only give out one mission every five minutes (total) and everyone could do them. Now you would have 50 people docked in Level IV stations clicking madly to try and be the lucky one to get the mission.
This analogy would work only if it required 2 hours to successfully click on an agent.
Originally by: Synnyr
What if you made it so asteroids would only give up ore periodically or perhaps allow combat pilots to fit multiple mining lasers and weapons at the same time? How about reducing the number of asteroids in each system to one belt?
And this analogy would require making each asteroid take 24 hours to mine.
Originally by: Synnyr
Fun times!
For us old-time explorers the only real opportunity is to go to low-sec space and have a go there. And for the most part even that is too time consuming under the new system. You can run 3 or 4 (or many more) level 4 missions and make so much more than exploration now that it's just not worth the time or risk. As far as the time and millions upon millions of isk you spent in the old system? Gone and essentially useless.
In my case the only thing that would make the new system even palatable would be to give the Deep Space probe multi-spectral capability...and I don't mean looking at a chart and saying: "Gee, that site is a .018 - that means it could be Ladar, Radar, or Gravi!" I mean no-kidding a list of the sites in that system. THEN I wouldn't mind going through the annoyance of using the horrible new system...because at least I'd know if I was wasting my time or not. How about some reward for training Astro to 5? Give us multi-spec back!
Your complaint is that missioning is worth more for your time, but you don't see the irony in this? 
As for rewards for astro 5 and such, i absolutely agree.
___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Helene Troi
Gallente
Crimson Umbra
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:16:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Helene Troi on 20/04/2009 20:16:37
Can we have the old bubbles back so i can see to select my widgets please ccp???
The new bubbles have made scanning annoying...
All else is good.
Thrasher for level Three Missions!
Rogue drone harrassment.
Portal to War 1 and 5.
The Missing Convoy. |
Spazzbot
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Posted - 2009.04.20 20:25:00 -
[48]
CCP really needs to fix the graphical bugs that appear when viewing the scanning interface with a low shader setting. I run EVE on a low end laptop and cannot turn my settings up very high. With these low settings, the probe widgets all but disappear whenever I move the probe in question under the plane of the solar system (it seems to be occluded by the shadow). In any case, at this rate I have a headache after 5 mins of scanning.
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Millimage
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.04.21 07:35:00 -
[49]
I only got to test the 1.1 scanning last night and it certainly feels more difficult.
Ship scanning for specific types was nigh impossible for me since the filters don't work until you hit 25%. My skills aren't maxed out but they aren't exactly noob level either, so it'll be a barrier for ship scanning when starting out. This should probably cut down ninja salvaging a bit.
Scanning for exploration sites seemed bugged out. I was vexed by the already mentioned red dot bug, which caused positioning probes to be a pain. I would often position them on the single dot only to lose signal altogether and be forced to back out one range to get the signal again. Of course it's pretty much 50-50 chance of hitting the correct dot so you might not suffer all the time, but it's still a pain.
The ID's are all good and fine and while I don't particularly like the new sphere graphics they weren't a problem for me. Remote bookmarking is a bliss and should have been there all along.
The funny thing is that scanning seemed more fun to me when it was made harder by the bugs and all. Getting a fix on the site after being made to really work for it made it all the more sweeter.
In that sense I hope CCP can somehow make scanning a bit harder, although I suppose bugs aren't the correct way. 
______________________
My EVE blog |
Wile Fett
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 16:54:00 -
[50]
well thats that... CCP suxx ass!!
what just happened to the post i took 20 minutes over writing to find an 'internal error' didnt allow me to post it, only to find i couldnt retry because it also deleted what i had just written!
SORT IT OUT, game's bugged and the forums are bugged! |
Damien Du'Pont
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Posted - 2009.06.14 21:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Wile Fett
well thats that... CCP suxx ass!!
what just happened to the post i took 20 minutes over writing to find an 'internal error' didnt allow me to post it, only to find i couldnt retry because it also deleted what i had just written!
SORT IT OUT, game's bugged and the forums are bugged!
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