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Some questions about reselling researched BPOs

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Khornne Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.16 13:45:00 - [1] Hey there, I'm just thinking about getting started with EVE's industrial side of the game. Well, at least a bit. ;-) As I don't have any experince with this stuff so far and not too much of playing time, so researching BPOs seems like a good start for me. I see some people sell ME/PE researched capital component BPOs in the sell order forums and thought this would be something I'd like to do too. Is this profitable at all and do I _need_ a own POS to be effective or can I use public research slots? I know this is much of a noob thread, but like I said I never messed with this aspects of the game till now so be a bit patient with me. Any help and info would be greatly appreciated. -- Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2009.04.16 13:54:00 - [2] POS required. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Khornne Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.16 13:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Shintai POS required. Well I also saw the offer of NER (New Eden Research) and wouldn't it be an alternative to join them with my 1 man research alt and just use their slots etc? -- Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service
Khornne Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.16 15:44:00 - [4] No one to give a little advice how to get started? -- Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service
Breaker77 Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Khornne Well I also saw the offer of NER (New Eden Research) and wouldn't it be an alternative to join them with my 1 man research alt and just use their slots etc? Yes that is one way to do it. You will also find that most people won't tell exactly how to do stuff like this in the forums as it would cut into their profit. Feel free to drop me an evemail for more info once the server comes back up.
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Khornne Originally by: Shintai POS required. Well I also saw the offer of NER (New Eden Research) and wouldn't it be an alternative to join them with my 1 man research alt and just use their slots etc? That just means lower profit for you. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Breaker77 Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Shintai That just means lower profit for you. You can either do: 1. Use NPC slots with hourly cost and month long wait times 2. Run your own POS with monthly fuel cost and .75 time bonus 3. Use a research service with hourly costs and no to very little wait time and a .75 time bonus. Explain how using a research alliance is lower profit than the others?
Puk Jinn Tempestas Oriens Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:53:00 - [8] Edited by: Puk Jinn on 16/04/2009 16:56:28 Originally by: Khornne No one to give a little advice how to get started? you shure can get started in NER and do some Market research what kind of prints to research and sell (cause there are some, that don¦t need to be researched this long a give you epic isk/hour) but as you said "..getting started with EVE's industrial side of the game" you won¦t be happy with the research ally for a very long time. The possibilities are not much compared with your own pos(network) and you will quickly miss the the copy option or an component/module array or stuff like this. so my advice would be. 1. join NER to get started 2. do missions to raise standing (faction and corp that owns your main trading hub) and budget 3. visit state data centers to get you an empire pos standing 4. raise your own tower (at this time you should know what to do with it) 5. ? 6. profit cheers puk Ninjaedit: but bevore you join NER or any other research ally you should know about the fact .. "they get wardeced pretty easy"
Khornne Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Puk Jinn Edited by: Puk Jinn on 16/04/2009 17:04:27 Originally by: Khornne No one to give a little advice how to get started? you shure can get started in NER and do some Market research what kind of prints to research and sell (cause there are some, that don¦t need to be researched this long a give you epic isk/hour) but as you said "..getting started with EVE's industrial side of the game" you won¦t be happy with the research ally for a very long time. The possibilities are not much compared with your own pos(network) and you will quickly miss the the copy option or an component/module array or stuff like this. so my advice would be. 1. join NER to get started 2. do missions to raise standing (faction and corp that owns your main trading hub) and budget 3. visit state data centers to get you an empire pos standing 4. raise your own tower (at this time you should know what to do with it) 5. ? 6. profit cheers puk Ninjaedit: but before you join NER or any other research ally you should know about the fact .. "they get wardeced pretty easy" Thanks for the reply. If I would setup my own POS, is there a way to calculate the cost per month/week for it so I can get a bit of an overview about the cost that I'll have to face for maintenance. To the wardec part, isn't my 1-man-alt-corp at the same risk to get wardec'd if anyone feels like doing so? -- Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service
Breaker77 Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Khornne Thanks for the reply. If I would setup my own POS, is there a way to calculate the cost per month/week for it so I can get a bit of an overview about the cost that I'll have to face for maintenance. To the wardec part, isn't my 1-man-alt-corp at the same risk to get wardec'd if anyone feels like doing so? Average POS costs per month Small tower 50 mil Medium tower 100 mil Large tower 150 mil Faction towers are a little cheaper, but cost more for the tower. As for wardecs, yes it happens, however only the POS is at risk since you keep your BPOs at a station in that system. Also most high sec POSes are fairly safe as it takes a rather large fleet to take them out since capitals can not be used in high sec.

Riekert	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:16:00 - [11] I've found that people are less likely to bug you when you've got a small research POS in high sec, without being a threat to anyone, then again I do have the means to back my rod up umm for my gallente medium research pos it rounds up to about 94mil a month if I'd get everything from the market, deduct the materials you're able to mine yourself and there you have it, however before setting up a POS you need to take into account you'll need starting capital, lets say arround 1b that gets you a nice starting research POS, then you need to make sure if you have the corp standings vs the faction where you want to put it, if you dont have the standings and cant wait, premade corps with 7+ standings vary from 200-400mil
Danica Erin	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:16:00 - [12] Quote: If I would setup my own POS, is there a way to calculate the cost per month/week for it so I can get a bit of an overview about the cost that I'll have to face for maintenance. yes, there a tools like evemeep(great industrial overall tool) or mypos that do the math for you. Quote: To the wardec part, isn't my 1-man-alt-corp at the same risk to get wardec'd if anyone feels like doing so? you¦re 1-man-corp won¦t be recognized as long you don¦t act like a turd in the local or post how much billions you earn in the forums. NER or any other research ally is known for easy targets so they get deced pretty "often". puk
Puk Jinn Tempestas Oriens Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:20:00 - [13] Quote: If I would setup my own POS, is there a way to calculate the cost per month/week for it so I can get a bit of an overview about the cost that I'll have to face for maintenance. yes, there a tools like evemeep(great industrial overall tool) or mypos that do the math for you. Quote: To the wardec part, isn't my 1-man-alt-corp at the same risk to get wardec'd if anyone feels like doing so? you¦re 1-man-corp won¦t be recognized as long you don¦t act like a turd in the local or post how much billions you earn in the forums. NER or any other research ally is known for easy targets so they get deced pretty "often". btw. the Pos costs per month are way! lower than the NER guy said puk
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Khornne do I _need_ a own POS to be effective or can I use public research slots? Using public research slots is pretty much a non-starter here. The slow speed of public slots combined with long queues will cripple your productivity. Your options are: 1. Put up your own POS and do the research and POS maintainance yourself. 2. Join a research alliance such as ZZZ or NER and pay them for the use of their research slots. 3. Hire a research provider to perform the research on your behalf.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Puk Jinn you won¦t be happy with the research ally for a very long time. The possibilities are not much compared to your own pos(network) and you will quickly miss the the copy option or an component/module array or stuff like this. Joining a research CORP as a tennant would give you access to all types of slots, it's only joining a research ALLIANCE that has the limitations you mention. I've been providing every type of slot to my tennants for years, plus since my research corps are also in the ZZZ research alliance you actually get both rolled in to one.
Mutnin	Posted - 2009.04.16 18:38:00 - [16] I tried to do some BPO research with this alt as I was training him up for PVP just to make some extra ISk. You wont find any ME research or BOP copy slots anywhere in Empire with out a min of a week wait. Most of the time it's much longer as much as a month. The only thing you will find open is Time Research and Production slots. You can find open slots out in 0.0 but most of the time they cost a fortune and you are risking everything to go there. I learned the hard way that it wasn't worth it, when I got gate camped by a so called NRDS alliance in Providence. Unless you have access to a POS, don't even waste your time..
Ishikari Gallente Duct Tape Inc. New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.16 22:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Bad Bobby Edited by: Bad Bobby on 16/04/2009 17:38:10 Originally by: Puk Jinn you won¦t be happy with the research ally for a very long time. The possibilities are not much compared to your own pos(network) and you will quickly miss the the copy option or an component/module array or stuff like this. Joining a research CORP as a tennant would give you access to all types of slots, it's only joining a research ALLIANCE with your own corp that has the limitations you mention. I've been providing every type of slot to my tennants for years and since my research corps are also in the ZZZ research alliance they actually get both rolled in to one. True, you can find corps that will let you in effect become part of their corp, and they give you access to copy and invent slots. If your character dosent leave the station unless you go to get copies from the pos, or throw invent jobs there is little risk to you as far as wardec goes (unless you ownt he pos of course). Just be smart about when you undock (as in dont undock with wartargets in system) and be vigilant and you should be ok (if you own the pos, be prepared to defend it).
Breaker77 Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.04.17 00:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Puk Jinn btw. the Pos costs per month are way! lower than the NER guy said puk Well considering Jita prices come to about 170 mil for a large Gallente tower and I can get it for 155 mil in Gallente space, please show me how the fuel costs are lower that what I said?? Yes you can buy ice and refine it, however a large tower takes 4032 units of ice which is running about 100k a unit (150k unit in Jita) and that provides 4 months of isotopes, 2 months of heavy water, and 1 month of liquid ozone for 400 million ISK. That does come out to less than 150 mil/month I said earlier, but you still have to buy oddball stuff every other month or try to sell the excess from refining it. I already mentioned in that post that a faction tower uses less fuel, so you will have to come up with something better than that. AND.. No, mining your own ice is not free
Puk Jinn Tempestas Oriens Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.04.17 10:25:00 - [19] @Breaker yeah, you¦re kinda right. Prices did go up. checked the costs for my Dark Blood Towers and they used to be ~90 in Highsec and ~65 in Sov Systems (last time i checked was about a Month ago). Now they are 110 in Highsec and 85 in Sov Systems. According to the Market History the costs exploded. But as Ice gets profitable it gets mined again. Expect the price to go down again in the next month. lucky the one who stockpiles at bottom prices cheers puk
hiwaydog	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:24:00 - [20] Edited by: hiwaydog on 17/04/2009 11:31:57 it absolutely does cost 135-150/ month to run a large pos, barring sov. Still there is profit to be made, but you will have to run quite a few prints to justify that cost. If you pay money to have a tower set up, you will eventually regret if you dont go with the large tower, as it won't take much growth to max out the cpu/powergrid of a smaller tower.

Puk Jinn Tempestas Oriens Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:45:00 - [21] Edited by: Puk Jinn on 17/04/2009 11:48:50 Originally by: hiwaydog If you pay money to have a tower set up, you will eventually regret if you dont go with the large tower, as it won't take much growth to max out the cpu/powergrid of a smaller tower. this and the fact that there are many wannabe moon roaming "pirates" that think they can take on a small or med tower but know that a well fitted large tower is a pain in the ass and not worth the ammo and time if possible at all. As there was the "wardecing" point some posts ago ... i wouldn¦t raise anything under a large tower in highsec with big sharp teeth seen from far away. cheers puk
Springun Cross Medical Inc	Posted - 2009.04.21 13:06:00 - [22] You could just find a bpc supplier, till you can put up a POS to research your own bpos in a timely manner. Then you can make money and produce things with little real cost or time investment. So you can switch products quickly if one item stops selling well, and then you have no capital tied up in a bpo, that now sits there collecting dust.
Nguyen Phred	Posted - 2009.04.22 18:05:00 - [23] I'm about a month ahead of you doing the exact thing you're asking about. 1. create a research alt. using your main is too skill intensive/time intensive 2. setup alt for research and, while you're at it, go ahead and setup for R&D agent research. many of the skills are related. this would also be a good alt, if you have the time or a second account, to setup for an obscure profession like hacking (which you'll need for t2 bpc/invention) or archaeology (which can get you good stuff for invention) 3. join a research alliance for the short term (i.e. for 3 to 5 months or so). if you've got the alt, you might as well start making money doing research on BPOs, because it's going to take a while to get standings for anchoring in hi sec. You can make arrangements for copying with the Alliance (at least you can with NER). don't worry about war decs, cause you're not using your main. i flew while wardecced without worrying. if they get me, so what? i'm an alt and i don't have anything of value to lose. 4. grind missions for standing for your research alt; you're going to need it for anchoring a POS and you're going to need it to improve your R&D agent results. why not have your main do the anchoring? you can, but you may find that the faction standings necessary to anchor will also make you hated by your enemy factions. for some people, that's a problem. you may also be working with characters in different factions. it can be profitable to get anchoring rights in more than one faction and then sell your services. 5. make mad money. the capital outlay is crazy for skill books, the control tower, labs, BPOs, fuel, ships, or the service equivalent of these things. If you don't have a billion, you're not ready to start. You're probably not ready to start and succeed if you don't have 2 billion ready to go. Don't ever forget that you need to be prepared for price spikes, local availability issues, and unforeseen wars/attacks. While I often hear "X that you mine yourself isn't free," I would contend that it is frequently cheaper to do it yourself. All the more so if you have more than one account and computer. The only real commodity in this game is time, of which there is actually less than in RL because of down time. I've been using my hulk/mackinaw alt to stockpile fuel (actually i mine one type, sell it in Jita, and buy what I need to bring back, which results in buying more of what I need than what I sold). I'll leave the argument to others, but there is no loss of opportunity cost for a miner since that's what they're supposed to be doing. 6. Seriously, save up a lot of money. Alot. 7. Get a large POS. Anchor it. Do good things. Remember the Alliance you joined? Now is the time to put your labs up for rent to the alliance. If you aren't using a slot, you're still getting paid. Or quit if you think it isn't worth it anymore. Something tells me, you'll find it profitable one way or another. Heck, you can always use your profits to put more labs online and make more money. Your biggest barrier isn't the money. It's the time spent on skills and faction standing.
Heathkit	Posted - 2009.04.22 18:40:00 - [24] Do you need high faction standing just for anchoring, or is it also a must for trading? I see everyone going on about Production Efficiency, but what about the skills related to trading? Is Accounting a must if you're going to sell your own goods? Are you better off wholeselling to a specialized trader?
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.04.24 15:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Heathkit Do you need high faction standing just for anchoring, or is it also a must for trading? I see everyone going on about Production Efficiency, but what about the skills related to trading? Is Accounting a must if you're going to sell your own goods? Are you better off wholeselling to a specialized trader? I wouldn't make a profession out of selling things without at least broker relations IV and accounting IV. While you don't NEED more than this, obviously accounting V, broker relations V and good standing with the local faction and corporation do help, though they won't make the difference between profit and loss unless you're playing with ridiculously small margins that are likely not worth your time anyway. I certainly have several characters with 6 mil SP in trade and good standing with various factions ;)


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