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Dear CCP: Why is the fun gone?

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Abram Enroch	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:05:00 - [1] Edited by: Abram Enroch on 16/04/2009 20:10:06 Edited by: Abram Enroch on 16/04/2009 20:07:17 There were pilots who were happy with spending five hours, travelling fifty systems, just to find that T1 frigate who stalled a few seconds too long at the gate.. Or to jump into a 50 man camp, get into position while 5 ceptors and a swarm of drones whizzed about you, and pop that blackbird sitting still 100 km from gate right under their nose, and move on with a wide smile. There used to a be minor portion of your clientele, who didn't care about killmails or efficiency ratios, or the blob. The stealth bomber was one of the most fun to fly ships in Eve. One of the very few which didn't solely consist of warping in and F1-F8. It was such a niche ship, for a very specific player profile. The vast majority of Eve scorned and mocked the SB pilot. To be honest, that was part of the fun, too. But guess what, we were not such a minority after all. Taking a look at the Game Dev forum about the patch stickies - the SB is at 42 pages, while the closest follower, the always-so-flammable falcon is at 18 pages - not including the 15 pages that got locked in a previous official thread for feed back - not including the dozens of threads fired up elsewhere begging you not to touch the SB. I have seen hundreds of "nerf nano" or "adapt or die" threads before the speed change. Then again, it was only a change of speed. I have seen hundreds of "nerf falcon" or adapt or die" threads before the current patch. Then again, it's only a fine-tuning of the bonus. I am yet to see a thread that says "nerf the SB". However, I have taken the time to read over thousand posts, in reply to your request for feedback about the changes you proposed. There were A LOT OF constructive suggestions. About 90% of them objected to your ideas. You ignored 90% of them. I really do not want to go into details here, otherwise I would have posted this in Game Dev or Ships Modules. I am just amazed at how arrogantly you can fiddle with the product your customers pay you for. It's not like we're asking for changes to make the SB a pwnmobile - all it was good for was killing a stationary T1 frig, or the rare T2 frig who was afk. But it was fun, because we could do it in a most unique way. I am yet to see a thread that says "nerf the SB". Still, you have taken the liberty to completely change the ROLE of the SB, nerfing (rather, rendering obsolete) the current play style of the ship. You know, you could have just implemented a new ship class with your fancy idea, without fiddling with the SB. But no, you had to go - oh hey here's an idea, let's make a frig that can alpha a BS, no that would be too overpowered, lets make them so 20 can alpha a BS, hey there's this SB that noone flies except a few morons, let's change that into this anti-BS frig, no wait this thing can cloak after firing, that would be owerpowered, let's get rid of that bonus, ah but now they are too weak they have no HP at all, oke let's make them use covops cloak, that should make those guys happy, they are happy with t2 cloak anyways, and they are used to roaming for hours, so now they can roam for hours to find a solo BS in a gang of 20 and when they do, they will get a real killmail instead of a frig, yea good idea, oh look the feedback thread is flooded with nay-sayers, lets just lock the thread and start a new one. Very convincing, if you follow that train of thought. But I tend to hope there was some other reason behind it. I just can't find it. Dear CCP, why is the fun gone?
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:07:00 - [2] BECAUSE OF FALCON? -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
Nykky Syxx	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:11:00 - [3] tl;dr - Im guessing it was about how much they sucked before and how they might be ok now.
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:14:00 - [4] Stealth are still comedy ships except now they might drop a nice 15 mill cloak in the loot. -
eKuivocal Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:16:00 - [5] subjective poast is subjective. "thats like your opinion.. man"
Fzhal Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:18:00 - [6] For some reason about 2 sentences in I knew you were going to start whining about one particular thing forever. It happened in the fourth sentence. Bombers weren't good except to snipe unsuspecting frigates, and little else. Now they can take down battleships with 500 DPS and you complain! Equip target painters. Oh I almost forgot: "Adapt or Die" You see what I did there? Huh? Yeah baby!
Myz Toyou Ministry of Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:19:00 - [7] SBs were fine till the missile nerf, what is done with todays patch will give a role again. /hugs his Hound -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [gold]Your signature image exceeds the maximum allo
Derelicht	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:25:00 - [8] ibtl. Please do not criticise CCP.
Shogun Archer Gallente Brotherhood of Soban CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:39:00 - [9] I'm just glad I spent 30 days training cruise missiles to 5 a couple months ago... God knows I can still use them on a Raven. Wait... Nah. I'd never fly that POS. Guess I'll just eat that training time. Oh well. Guess I'll start training torpedoes.
Abram Enroch	Posted - 2009.04.16 22:09:00 - [10] Edited by: Abram Enroch on 16/04/2009 22:10:20 Originally by: Derelicht ibtl. Please do not criticise CCP. With that frameset of mind, sir, I think you can win Eve. Originally by: eKuivocal subjective poast is subjective. "thats like your opinion.. man" Of course it's subjective. It's from the perspective of people who actually flew bombers solo and enjoyed it. Not from the "objective" perspective of people who won't undock unless they outnumber & outgun, which is very convincing if you think in a certain way. Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts BECAUSE OF FALCON? Yea, me too thought the officials enjoyed a joke every here and then. So I posted a mock thread, and guess what happened? It got deleted from index. It is (as of now) still available here, but I doubt that will last. Originally by: Press Release ...CCP's lead economist, made a rousing speech describing the CSM delegates as the first 'Internet chieftains' and 'pioneers' of democracy in online communities. Uhm.. Yea sure. We can't even post our thoughts on forums, that is truly pioneering the world of online communities. And by the way, I would be so glad if any CSM candidates reading this would respond on their action plans about game changes. Cause at the moment, they seem to be so one-sided - the devs decide, and we have to follow. It's funny we pay to play this game. In the current scheme, it would be more appropriate for the CCP to pay us for testing the ideas of their devs.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.16 22:13:00 - [11] Because of Falcon. Anyway, I Think of it more like a boost. Like the Torpedo Boost and the Falcon Boost. I really enjoyed the Nano Boost too. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.16 22:14:00 - [12] Edited by: Gonada on 16/04/2009 22:14:49 most people have fun every day. maybe you should leave EVE nd go back to WoW, or hello kitty.
VoiceInTheDesert Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.04.16 22:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Abram Enroch Why is the fun gone? Because you touch yourself at night.
Spurty Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.04.16 23:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Abram Enroch However, I have taken the time to read over thousand posts, in reply to your request for feedback about the changes you proposed. There were A LOT OF constructive suggestions. About 90% of them objected to your ideas. You ignored 90% of them. Because those 90% of posts were from less than 1% of the customers CCP receives subscription fees from probably. If all CCP did was oil the squeaky wheel, the game would have tanked sometime after they doubled all ships hitpoints. Originally by: Butter Dog I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
Spurty Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.04.16 23:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Gonada most people have fun every day. I enjoy myself playing eve every night I can get to the computer to play! Check my bio in game to understand Originally by: Butter Dog I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
MidnightMartyr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.04.17 04:33:00 - [16] I personally applaud CCP for giving the stealth bomber a more useful role than killing T1 frigs. I much prefer a stealth DPS dealer that will be more widely used than a lol worthy frig popped that only a very small minority use.
21 Salvager Minmatar We are Live	Posted - 2009.04.17 05:03:00 - [17] Anyone else think of Why is the Rum Gone? ----- I'm a collector! Want to trade? See my Collection List and contact me.
MidnightMartyr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.04.17 05:26:00 - [18] Originally by: 21 Salvager Anyone else think of Why is the Rum Gone? This post is now about rum and pirates. Discuss.
Daplat Mode Caldari Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.04.17 05:30:00 - [19] The S/B changes are probably just some bug they dont have the time to correct so they just talked it up as a feature, kinda like the paint scheme switch for the harpy/hawk.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.04.17 06:04:00 - [20] its not to say that the sealth bomber GOT nerfed this go around. What happened was that the stealth bomber got nerfed during the missile rebalance after the speed nerf. Becuase they couldnt fix that problem the stealth bombers lost during the missile nerf, they decided the next best thing, to over focus its sole role, ship destruction. Now we have a ship capable of being a threat in a mixed fleet of covert operations combined with jammers and sensor booster ships its probably the hardest hitting stealth ship available in eve today. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 6Apr09
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2009.04.17 08:16:00 - [21] Quote: Dear CCP: Why is the fun gone? BECAUSE OF F... No.. no.. it's because you're bored of the game. Take a break. Come back in June, you'll enjoy the game a lot more that way.
deo tranquilo Koshaku Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.04.17 08:17:00 - [22] I agree completely with the OP. What imo was fun with flying a bomber is gone, especially with the 15 sec reactivation delay. You'll be lucky if the torps/bomb hit before you're fried. There was no need for a cov ops cloak. The ability to recloak quick was crucial for it's survival, on the other hand. Imo CCP should make smaller adjustments more often, and not completely go berserk and change the whole characteristics of a ship many of us learned to love flying and developed tactics for over time. sigh
Haramir Haleths	Posted - 2009.04.17 08:43:00 - [23] you still can insta pop a afk frig.... Where is the problem
Blev Oblix Gallente Rock Jocks	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:25:00 - [24] Edited by: Blev Oblix on 17/04/2009 11:27:15 Strange how every now and again there's a change that looks fine and dandy but with some thought can be seen to be a bit of a duff move (see the Rorqual and how it was supposed to be flown by miners and how CCP couldn't work out why it ended up being flown by cap pilots). And now we have all sorts of claims being made for the revised SBs that don't need that much thought to be dismissed as crazy thinking. So the SB will now be a useful ship? And how much use will a ship be that needs to be flown in groups of 10 or 15 with Rapier support + others just to find and kill a lone BS. Really? You need a large bunch of SBs just to do this? And get ready to run away if a couple of frigates turn up. The main SB defence is range, tempered by a need to stay on station nearly long enough for your missiles to hit. Then - get your skills to L4, cruise missiles and snipe from 160km. Now - max out all your skills to L5 (all 10 or 15 of you) and maybe you'll get to use that particular brand of torps at 100km otherwise you'll be at less than 60km and that's into drone range. Better make sure that alpha strike kills the BS or there's going to be a few less of you getting back to station in a ship. And if you warp out to avoid damage, your faction torps are just so much scrap metal floating away in space. And get ready to run away if a couple of frigates turn up. I've seen somebody suggest using SBs to do a POS. I hope he was joking. If he wasn't then how long do you think SBs are going to last with this current specification after a 200 SB blob takes down a POS? Three, mebbe four seconds? And then there's a strange type of snobbery going on too. The idea of a solo SB pilot taking out a frig or cruiser is sneered at while 15 SBs taking out a single BS is something to be celebrated. So to summarise - the solo SB pilot is no more. The empire based SB pilot is no more. The use of SBs in small or medium sized corps is no more (trying to get 15 high skill pilots on line and in one place at the same time?). Let me try and work out who will benefit from these changes - based in 0.0, large corps or alliance based, lots of high SP pilots available - nope, can't think of anybody (that last bit is called irony). This isn't a matter of adapt or die it's a matter of throw that ship away and forget about that skilling you did to get to use it properly. The use of SBs hasn't expanded, it's been reduced to a very narrow function that can only be exploited by a small pool of players. On the other hand, if they are going to be used to hunt down and kill Rorquals, carry on.
Doomed Predator The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:32:00 - [25] Were you even around when nano typhoons were flying around getting easy ganks because they were faster than most ceptors? Oh, it's not about nanos,you *****ing about stealth bombers. Guess what, stealth bombers can either be solo wtfpwn mobiles or interesting flying ships you fly in expecting to die and maybe gank something. They just changed it from being able to kill a t1 frigate to 6 or so stealth bombers being able to pop battleships. To conclude, EVE is dead the fun is gone and the sleepers ate your baby,now move on. The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again
Another Forum'Alt Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:36:00 - [26] I agree with OP. BECAUSE OF FALCON. Guide to forum posting
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.04.17 11:39:00 - [27] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert Originally by: Abram Enroch Why is the fun gone? Because you touch yourself at night. QFT Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2009.04.17 12:28:00 - [28] stealth bombers are now the best tacklers ... btw., please use appropriate topic titles, there's not much point in disguising a SB whine as a general EVE whine. How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Abram Enroch	Posted - 2009.04.17 21:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Spurty Because those 90% of posts were from less than 1% of the customers CCP receives subscription fees from probably. If all CCP did was oil the squeaky wheel, the game would have tanked sometime after they doubled all ships hitpoints. Exactly what I was saying.. It was only like 1% of all players who actually flew an SB. And we didn't ask for a buff, even after the missile nerf. The other 99% didn't even care about the SB. Originally by: MidnightMartyr I personally applaud CCP for giving the stealth bomber a more useful role than killing T1 frigs. I much prefer a stealth DPS dealer that will be more widely used than a lol worthy frig popped that only a very small minority use. Stealth DPS dealer? Have you ever flown the ship at all? Hint 1: Alpha Hint 2: Try dealing DPS while you wait for your launchers to fire the second volley, unable to cloak. Originally by: 21 Salvager Anyone else think of Why is the Rum Gone? Thank you =) Originally by: Pan Crastus stealth bombers are now the best tacklers ... btw., please use appropriate topic titles, there's not much point in disguising a SB whine as a general EVE whine. Care to share that tackler fit with the rest of Eve? I really could use a tackler that costs 50 mil and lasts 5 seconds.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.04.17 21:33:00 - [30] stealth bombers used to be lol-pop ships that could one shot kill frigate sized boats, and 2 shot kill haulers then the speed nerf game and suddenly it took 3 shots to kill an atron, and they became useless again. now, with this change, they became torpedo wielding surprise tacklers. they'll be good for grabbing ratters i guess. --

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