Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Packe
Minmatar Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 15:14:00 -
[1]
However the random output is determined, it is already clear that demand for some subsystems is far greater than others.
If there is demand for only one of those subsytems, it effectively quadruples the reverse engineering cost, as the supply of the other systems will far outstrip supply, and mean that they will be not worth building.
Can we get this changed CCP? Random selection of output didn't work for inventing t2 ships, I don't see why the same mechanism has been added to t3 reverse engineering.
|
Qual
Gallente Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 17:36:00 -
[2]
Agreed. Output should be selectable like T2. This will mess with prices in a silly way in the long run.
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 20:31:00 -
[3]
how will this really mess with prices? The most demanded subsystems will cost the most, the least demanded will cost the least... it will behave like a fixed supply resource, instead of a manufactured good.
System Influence |
Packe
Minmatar Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 21:12:00 -
[4]
I don't think it 'messes' with the price, though the price of any one subsection is weighted over a number of product's prices and sales volumes.
However the cost of a popular item is going to be relatively more expensive than if you could target it's manufacture specifically. Its bad for manufacture, because you end up having to manage costs in a more complicated way, and its bad for consumers cause the good stuff costs more.
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2009.04.18 01:22:00 -
[5]
I can see good and bad from this, just like I could see good and bad from the random chance in T2 invention. At least it meant there was a 'cheap' option, paid for by those that wanted the expensive option. Having some fittings used because they are cheap is not a necessarily a bad thing.
|
Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
|
Posted - 2009.04.18 09:19:00 -
[6]
I also think they did a good job spreading the capabilities of the subsystems about, and seem to have limited the single best fit problem, therefore, I don't think there will be a LOT of difference in demand. The different subsystems have so much difference that they will genuinly be used for specific tasks, as opposed to one being 'the best'.
System Influence |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.04.18 09:58:00 -
[7]
I suppose you haven't seen the latest offensive and propulsion subsystems then ?
Offensive subsystem that lets you use covops cloak. Propulsion system that makes ship immune to all bubbles. Combine the two and... ouch.
It's obvious those two will be far, far more expensive than the other offensive/propulsion subsystems. _ The problem with EVE || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Braaage
Ministry of Craft
|
Posted - 2009.04.18 10:40:00 -
[8]
Well I made them cheap but all that happened as always with the world of eve someone bought them all and re-sold them at a higher price so I put the price up.
Trying to sell something cheap/cheapish in this game is impossible (on the market). --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Packe
Minmatar Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2009.04.21 21:18:00 -
[9]
Anybody else starting to get T3 subsection BPCs piling up that are simply not worth using? There is no point making the subsection if you can't sell the ones already made.
I have got a couple of extra Tengu Propulsion - Gravitaional Capacitor ... that 15% bonus to warp speed per level is a real winner.
CCP please allow ouput subsection selection when reverse engineering, or make all 4 subsections in each category worth using (prefferably the latter...).
|
Zander Price
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 05:19:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zander Price on 22/04/2009 05:19:32 Edited by: Zander Price on 22/04/2009 05:18:49 I have a stockpile of the bp's starting to pile up as well. 3 powercore mulltipliers ,2 cpu gates ,2 cloak ,and 2 fuel catalyst.
Anyone wanna do some trading of bps lol
|
|
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 07:27:00 -
[11]
The way I see it, selecting output is not a good answer.
Making all the subsystems "equally good" is unlikely, but it's what we should really be aiming for.
Let's say you did make it selectable:
1. One of each type of subsystem is going to be in much higher demand than all the others. 2. The price for all the inputs to reverse engineering will be set by the profit to be made by the most popular subsystem. 3. Nobody in their right mind is going to select anything but the most popular subsystem to reverse engineer unless it is for personal use. 4. Reverse engineering would be broken by the "single best fit" that CCP were trying to avoid.
Whereas with the current system:
1. One of each type of subsystem is going to be in much higher demand than all the others. 2. The price for all the inputs to reverse engineering will be set by the profit to be made by the average result. 3. All subsystem BPCs get created regardless of how poor they may be. 4. Reverse engineering works as intended.
|
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 07:49:00 -
[12]
I took some of your text and added my thoughts in bold-italic ...
Originally by: Bad Bobby The way I see it, selecting output is not a good answer.
1. One of each type of subsystem is going to be in much higher demand than all the others. 2. The price for all the inputs to reverse engineering will be set by the profit to be made by the most popular subsystem. 3. Nobody in their right mind is going to select anything but the most popular subsystem to reverse engineer unless it is for personal use. 4. Reverse engineering would adapt and produce subsystems by demand, spreading the fixed cost of input materials over all outcomes evenly - all subsystems would nearly cost the same - and thus wouldn't need any further intervention by ccp.
Originally by: Bad Bobby Making all the subsystems "equally good" is unlikely, but it's what we should really be aiming for.
1. One of each type of subsystem is always going to be in much higher demand than all the others. 2. The price for all the inputs to reverse engineering will be set by the profit to be made by the average result. 3. All subsystem BPCs get created regardless of how poor they may be. 4. Reverse engineering causes that the cost of input has to be made back with only a hand full of subsystems which then are roughly 3 times more expensive then needed and thus causing T3 to take much longer to be a reasonable investment to fly anywhere except for where its ueber. 5. As ccp takes ages to balance FOTM T3 will be kneejerked forever.
|
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 09:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tres Farmer Reverse engineering causes that the cost of input has to be made back with only a hand full of subsystems which then are roughly 3 times more expensive then needed and thus causing T3 to take much longer to be a reasonable investment to fly anywhere except for where its ueber.
What about the waste product BPCs that are produced?
My bet, is that they will still find their way onto the market at below cost price. For me, the availability of the less popular T3 subsystem BPCs at bargain prices is more important than the availability of the popular T3 subsystems at reasonable prices.
|
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 11:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Tres Farmer Reverse engineering causes that the cost of input has to be made back with only a hand full of subsystems which then are roughly 3 times more expensive then needed and thus causing T3 to take much longer to be a reasonable investment to fly anywhere except for where its ueber.
What about the waste product BPCs that are produced
.. see 4 posts above WHAT happens..
"Anybody else starting to get T3 subsection BPCs piling up that are simply not worth using? There is no point making the subsection if you can't sell the ones already made."
"I have a stockpile of the bp's starting to pile up as well. 3 powercore mulltipliers ,2 cpu gates ,2 cloak ,and 2 fuel catalyst. Anyone wanna do some trading of bps? lol"
Originally by: Bad Bobby My bet, is that they will still find their way onto the market at below cost price. For me, the availability of the less popular T3 subsystem BPCs at bargain prices is more important than the availability of the popular T3 subsystems at reasonable prices.
How's that gonna happen? If you look at the material requirements to build those subsystems, you'll see that they use the same for the same subsystem class.
So we get at least 5 subsystems per race that are in demand and if ccp did it right.. is at least 5 times the supply in materials possible from w-space.. so, now when the demanded bpc get the money (as they're wanted they will be most expensive), the materials will become cheap (oversupply).. no one then bothers going for them.. overall price rise until the demand by those rare subsystems (1/5th of the estimated) makes it profitable enough to get them again..
Dunno how that's going to bring T3 at reasonable prices, as for this we need full supply of the materials, not just 1/5th.
Forge '07 on Sale
|
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 11:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Tres Farmer Reverse engineering causes that the cost of input has to be made back with only a hand full of subsystems which then are roughly 3 times more expensive then needed and thus causing T3 to take much longer to be a reasonable investment to fly anywhere except for where its ueber.
What about the waste product BPCs that are produced
.. see 4 posts above WHAT happens..
"Anybody else starting to get T3 subsection BPCs piling up that are simply not worth using? There is no point making the subsection if you can't sell the ones already made."
"I have a stockpile of the bp's starting to pile up as well. 3 powercore mulltipliers ,2 cpu gates ,2 cloak ,and 2 fuel catalyst. Anyone wanna do some trading of bps? lol"
My point exactly.
|
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Tres Farmer
[...] .. see 4 posts above WHAT happens..
"Anybody else starting to get T3 subsection BPCs piling up that are simply not worth using? There is no point making the subsection if you can't sell the ones already made."
"I have a stockpile of the bp's starting to pile up as well. 3 powercore multipliers ,2 cpu gates ,2 cloak ,and 2 fuel catalyst. Anyone wanna do some trading of bps? lol"
My point exactly.
And the price for the materials to build these bargain-bpc also goes down? I wonder why the bpc-creators then have obviously problems to sell the finished bargain-product... |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 12:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tres Farmer And the price for the materials to build these bargain-bpc also goes down? I wonder why the bpc-creators then have obviously problems to sell the finished bargain-product...
Because not everyone involved in T3 industry has what it takes to succeed. |
Arushia
Nova Labs Empire Research
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 18:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Tres Farmer
[...] .. see 4 posts above WHAT happens..
"Anybody else starting to get T3 subsection BPCs piling up that are simply not worth using? There is no point making the subsection if you can't sell the ones already made."
"I have a stockpile of the bp's starting to pile up as well. 3 powercore multipliers ,2 cpu gates ,2 cloak ,and 2 fuel catalyst. Anyone wanna do some trading of bps? lol"
My point exactly.
And the price for the materials to build these bargain-bpc also goes down?
Nope, because the worthless subsystems in each class use exactly the same materials as the best subsystems in each class.
What I'd like to see is the chance to select desired out put in reverse-engineering, but unlike invention, you might not get it.
EX: You select Interdiction Nullifier when installing a job. If it succeeds you have something like 40% chane of getting interdiction nullifier, and 20% chance of getting another subsystem.
Still random, but better than the 25% chance now.
|
Packe
Minmatar Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 17:44:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Packe on 23/04/2009 17:51:11 I noticed that the Tengu Offensive - Magnetic Infusion Basin is now below the subsection component sell price in Jita. I just tried to recycle mine in hope of making a few mill on a buy, recycle and sell... but.. guess what... you cant recycle them. I have a can; now labelled "Useless T3 BPCs". I'm holding on to them of course, for the anticipated fix which will make them worth billions.
Recycling is a nice way to push components back into the market place, effectively allowing the finished product to add to the total pool of resources available. It's a shame that we can't even recover components to build something of value.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |