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MicroWarpdrive II
Disorder.
Shock Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:44:00 -
[1]
Day after day, week after week, month after month, the EVE community has acknowledged the inferiority of large projectiles in comparison with other large weaponry. I could go on about the nidhoggur, the naglfar, Hail and EMP, but I won't. This thread is completely dedicated to the problems that large projectile turrets suffer, and why they need to be fixed NOW. NO MORE STONEWALLING FROM CCP. DO NOT LET THEM IGNORE THIS ANY LONGER.
1) Large artillery has THE worst dps, THE worst range, and a complete lack of a range extending module.
Let me clarify this. Large artillery uses falloff. Tracking computers and tracking enhancers do not modify this atribute in any way, shape, or form.All you are left with is a weapon with pre-HP buff nostalgia, and little else.
2) Large autocannons are, more often than not, fighting in falloff which leads to a noticeable DPS loss.
3) Large artillery needs a huge clip size boost. Have you ever tried fighting with only 10 rounds of ammo per gun? It slaughters your dps!
Discuss.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Celestial Ascension
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.17 22:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 17/04/2009 22:49:07
Use other guns.
(Not an ignorant answer, btw - I'm having to switch from Lasers to Projectiles because of the fact that you can't rat in Angel space with Lasers. It's painful, true, but it has to be done because the guns need downsides...)
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http://eve.drome.nl/CaodCleaner/ Help make CAOD readable. |
Rhaegor Stormborn
H A V O C
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.17 23:01:00 -
[3]
Minmatar as a race need to be reviewed. Our capital ships, guns, speed and agility, our electronic warfare, our battleships, our tech 2 ammos, everything. All of it needs to be reviewed. Amarr out class every race right now by a long shot. I don't want an Amarr nerf, I want a Minmatar buff.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.17 23:01:00 -
[4]
In the real world large artillery is used mainly for range. It's useless against moving targets although there is a class of artillery used in real world tanks that sprout fins as soon as fired and can be somewhat guided.
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Great Artista
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.17 23:08:00 -
[5]
Could use some more alpha, yes?
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Celestial Ascension
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.17 23:09:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Minmatar as a race need to be reviewed. Our capital ships, guns, speed and agility, our electronic warfare, our battleships, our tech 2 ammos, everything. All of it needs to be reviewed. Amarr out class every race right now by a long shot. I don't want an Amarr nerf, I want a Minmatar buff.
?!
Oh right, the Zealot is the entire Ammar lineup. Ammar have some great ships - our BSes and BCs - but many other ships - our T1 Crusiers and Frigates - are godawful (bar the Arbitrator).
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http://eve.drome.nl/CaodCleaner/ Help make CAOD readable. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.17 23:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Malcanis on 17/04/2009 23:20:55
It's hard to argue against an arty buff tbh. ACs have their niche (lolblasterwhines), but really, arty... specifically BS arty.
I like the "reduce clip size/increased RoF" idea. Minmatar BS warps in, unloads 4-5 arty volleys in a brief burst of helldeath then either warps out or stick around doing nothing much for 10 seconds.
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Dao2
Caldari
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Minmatar as a race need to be reviewed. Our capital ships, guns, speed and agility, our electronic warfare, our battleships, our tech 2 ammos, everything. All of it needs to be reviewed. Amarr out class every race right now by a long shot. I don't want an Amarr nerf, I want a Minmatar buff.
?!
Oh right, the Zealot is the entire Ammar lineup. Ammar have some great ships - our BSes and BCs - but many other ships - our T1 Crusiers and Frigates - are godawful (bar the Arbitrator).
stabbers kinda useful but other then that not really ;p
tracking link buff for our logistics? i mean really?
and why does our dread have the worst tank, yet takes more training time (since you HAVE to train both capital launchers and projectiles) and we still have the worst dps. The speed agility **** (which doesn't really exist tbh :P) and "omni-tanking" should NOT apply to capitals and that's pretty damn obvious
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Grimnir
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:23:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Grimnir on 18/04/2009 00:25:48
Originally by: Dao2
stabbers kinda useful but other then that not really ;p
tracking link buff for our logistics? i mean really?
and why does our dread have the worst tank, yet takes more training time (since you HAVE to train both capital launchers and projectiles) and we still have the worst dps. The speed agility **** (which doesn't really exist tbh :P) and "omni-tanking" should NOT apply to capitals and that's pretty damn obvious
wrong alt :)
Edit: However I agree completely.
Considering that to be effect across the board, minmatar need 5 times the training (shiels, armour, missiles, guns, drones) thats not versatility anymore - that's class weakness or a race reduced to using other racial ships. Oh yeah, we still have to learn the ship skills too.
Please CCP - we're not asking to be imba or uber, but please bring back the balance - We don't mind being a part of EvE on Hard, but EvE on legendary ? we aren't and we can't.
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IVeige
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:24:00 -
[10]
In before BOF (Because of falcon)
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Grimnir
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: IVeige
In before BOF (Because of falcon)
This has been at issue before the recon class was introduced.
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Vibora BR
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:30:00 -
[12]
I simply stopped training anything for Minmatar and start cross-training other races.
Minmatar is ridiculous for mission running and below average for PVP.
So I suggest you forget about minmatar and start training something else.
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Dao2
Caldari
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vibora BR
I simply stopped training anything for Minmatar and start cross-training other races.
Minmatar is ridiculous for mission running and below average for PVP.
So I suggest you forget about minmatar and start training something else.
gotta admit the cane is a beast though :P
that and the mael
the 2 ships they did right :|
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Tribe
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Grimnir
Originally by: IVeige
In before BOF (Because of falcon)
This has been at issue before the recon class was introduced.
Yes, but the Falcon went back in time and made projectiles what they're now. So it's really all BECAUSE OF FALCON.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar
Shadow Reapers
DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:51:00 -
[15]
The Hurricane really broke the mold... it was so good, that it went back in time and pre-broke the mold on most minmatar ships made before it (except for the rifter and rupture).
I don't think there's many people left outside of CCP's balance squad that don't believe large projectiles need a serious revision.
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Sikozu Prioris
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:03:00 -
[16]
Something has to be the worst.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:08:00 -
[17]
Stonewalling, yeah, right.
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Ideas for: Mining
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MicroWarpdrive II
Disorder.
Shock Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Stonewalling, yeah, right.
They just acknowledged that TODAY...and knowing them they won't do anything about it. It is at the bottom of that list you notice? Also, they had time to break blasters, and hopefully fix them again before they ever looked at projectiles...oh yeah we can really see the priorities here.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MicroWarpdrive II
Originally by: Abrazzar
Stonewalling, yeah, right.
They just acknowledged that TODAY...and knowing them they won't do anything about it. It is at the bottom of that list you notice? Also, they had time to break blasters, and hopefully fix them again before they ever looked at projectiles...oh yeah we can really see the priorities here.
You can see what you want to see.
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Ideas for: Mining
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:26:00 -
[20]
Just give the hurricane and tempest a 7th turret, the shield boosting ships a higher percentage boost per level, and make the nag have 3 turret hard points and 3 missile hardpoints.
I'd be happy.
Stop, hammer time. |
MicroWarpdrive II
Disorder.
Shock Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.18 01:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: MicroWarpdrive II on 18/04/2009 01:29:30
Originally by: Abrazzar
You can see what you want to see.
Um yes you can see what I want, did you read the topic title?
Edit:
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Just give the hurricane and tempest a 7th turret, the shield boosting ships a higher percentage boost per level, and make the nag have 3 turret hard points and 3 missile hardpoints.
I'd be happy.
And give the Naglfar +100 CPU so it can fit a decent shield tank, -1 low and +1 mid. And get rid of that stupid split weapon systems bonus crap.
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buttesauce
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Posted - 2009.04.18 03:01:00 -
[22]
Give the naglfar a 3/3 slot tank. That way you can either chose to fit projectiles or missiles. Also give it more CPU!
Also target painters should be the longest ranged ECM simply because it is painting a target so other people can hit it better. It makes sense that it should be farther ranged then other ecm so you can target paint something and have everyone else lock it.
Also drop the weapon bonus on the bellicose and give it 10% increased range to stasis webifiers per level of minmatar cruiser! Give the bellicose, rapier, and huginn a built in 25% bonus to statis webifier effectiveness.
ALSO BUFF LARGE ARTIES! GIVE THEM MORE RANGE!
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Jones Bones
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.04.18 06:55:00 -
[23]
Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane, Claymore, Vagabond, etc. It's not THAT bad.
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Go Bucks! |
Bonny Lee
Caldari
The Guardian Agency
Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.04.18 08:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Bonny Lee on 18/04/2009 08:24:47
Edited by: Bonny Lee on 18/04/2009 08:24:23
Originally by: Jones Bones
Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane, Claymore, Vagabond, etc. It's not THAT bad.
Those are Ships relying on ACs and that works well.
Minmatar isnŠt that bad but there are some things standing out that need to be fixed.
Weaponsystems: (Artillery only)
- Bigger Clips.
- Adjusting Alpha to new Conditions
- Perhaps a little bit more Range
Weaponupgrades:
- Falloffrangescript for Trackingcomputer.
Ships:
- Dread: No Split-Weapons, better Tank
- Tempest: More PG for a full rack of 1400+ MWD + Plate etc. without RCU
- Typhoon: Perhaps +1 Turret- +1 Missle-Slot That wouldnt make it much stronger but less Skill-Intensive.
- Rapier/Huggin: Changing Target Painter Bonus in 3-5% Webber strength per LvL (resulting in a 75-80% Webber Strength @ lvl 5)
I dont think we do need more Buffs.
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Irulan S'Dijana
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.18 08:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
I like the "reduce clip size/increased RoF" idea. Minmatar BS warps in, unloads 4-5 arty volleys in a brief burst of helldeath then either warps out or stick around doing nothing much for 10 seconds.
Oohhh...awesomeness. Fits in with the hit and run thingy of Minmatar. 2 cov ops, one for shooting, one as warp-out point. Fleet warps to 1st, unloads, then warps to second and goes back to start position to repeat.
- Nobody gets rich in this business. You simply obtain new levels of relative poverty. |
Akumi Tukara
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Posted - 2009.04.18 08:58:00 -
[26]
Just started training Minmatar BS. Can't wait to fly a tempest after seeing what some of my corp/alliance mates do in them. The biggest problem with minmatar I feel is that people try to fly them like 1. approach 2. DPS. That does not work for Minmatar
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Bonny Lee
Caldari
The Guardian Agency
Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.04.18 09:07:00 -
[27]
Akumi maybee that the Tempest is fine with an AC-Setup and you are right
you shouldnt just approach in Blaster range and fire then, but Tempest is
also our Fleet-BS (Sniper) and thats where it has its problems.
If you read the thread you perhaps would have seen that not everything is
bad we just need some things fixed.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2009.04.18 09:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/04/2009 09:10:45
Originally by: Akumi Tukara
The biggest problem with minmatar I feel is that people try to fly them like 1. approach 2. DPS. That does not work for Minmatar
Yes, I find that the two options available are not Approach and Do Real Damage, but instead their near opposite:
1. Run, or
2. do Silly Damage
---
Originally by: Roguehalo
Can you nano Titans?
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Akumi Tukara
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Posted - 2009.04.18 09:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bonny Lee
Akumi maybee that the Tempest is fine with an AC-Setup and you are right
you shouldnt just approach in Blaster range and fire then, but Tempest is
also our Fleet-BS (Sniper) and thats where it has its problems.
If you read the thread you perhaps would have seen that not everything is
bad we just need some things fixed.
Why is the Tempest the fleet sniper when Mael has bigger volley?
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Toramii
Le Moulin Rouge
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Posted - 2009.04.18 09:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: MicroWarpdrive II
Originally by: Abrazzar
Stonewalling, yeah, right.
... They just acknowledged that TODAY...and knowing them they won't do anything about it. It is at the bottom of that list you notice? ...
Arn't you jumping to conclusions? Based on this post, artillery is not at the bottom of the list, its right near the top.
CCP Nozh has already said he will tot up the number of times a balancing issue is raised before opening an official thread to discuss further, so to discuss artillery now is a little premature as it will be buried by the official post.
The cause for projectiles / artillery would be better served at this moment by pointing people to register their top 3 concerns here so the issue gets the recognition it deserves.
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