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Blastherthron obsolete due to gankageddons?

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mahhy	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:22:00 - [31] Originally by: hired goon I don't understand why an Armageddon would be better than an Apocalypse at this. An Apocalypse has more turret slots. Rate of Fire bonus at Amarr BS level 4 (20% faster) or 5 (25% faster). 7 guns on an Arma at Amarr BS level 4 is the equivalent of 8.4 of those guns approx. Add in another level and 7 or 8 dmg mods are the rate of fire is just insane. As said before it leaves out all defence, you die very very fast. And it seems that in any sizeable fleet Armageddons are now some of the first ships targetted Its also very tankable as it only deals EM and Thermal damage, which are pretty standard for folks to tank against.
mahhy	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:22:00 - [32] Originally by: hired goon I don't understand why an Armageddon would be better than an Apocalypse at this. An Apocalypse has more turret slots. Rate of Fire bonus at Amarr BS level 4 (20% faster) or 5 (25% faster). 7 guns on an Arma at Amarr BS level 4 is the equivalent of 8.4 of those guns approx. Add in another level and 7 or 8 dmg mods are the rate of fire is just insane. As said before it leaves out all defence, you die very very fast. And it seems that in any sizeable fleet Armageddons are now some of the first ships targetted Its also very tankable as it only deals EM and Thermal damage, which are pretty standard for folks to tank against.
ActiveX	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:24:00 - [33] Originally by: hired goon I don't understand why an Armageddon would be better than an Apocalypse at this. An Apocalypse has more turret slots. The Apoc is indeed the better alpha strike, but eventually the RoF bonus on the Armageddon catches up and surpasses the Apoc. It's Damage Over Time that is being whined about. Anyway, would Earthen like some cheese with that? I personally think the worst thing about the Mega is that people only seems to use one setup with it... ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
ActiveX	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:24:00 - [34] Originally by: hired goon I don't understand why an Armageddon would be better than an Apocalypse at this. An Apocalypse has more turret slots. The Apoc is indeed the better alpha strike, but eventually the RoF bonus on the Armageddon catches up and surpasses the Apoc. It's Damage Over Time that is being whined about. Anyway, would Earthen like some cheese with that? I personally think the worst thing about the Mega is that people only seems to use one setup with it... ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:24:00 - [35] Gankgeddon.. The name says it all..its a gank setup. Basically its rigged for pure damage and has absolutly NO other defences other then going for the quick kill. Anyone with a very low secrating who has ever camped in empire space with gank setups knows that you have to be on your toes all the time for pirate hunters, because the moment they warp in your screwed as you have no defences against them. A gankgeddon is the same. Use EW or concentrated fire and the gankgeddon is nothing more then oversized cannonfodder. Its fodder for EW frigs and cruisers. As for blasterthron VS gankgeddon... On both setups the object is to kill before being killed, i guess the gankgeddon does better in that field. Thats why you can't counter a gankgeddon with a high damage setup. You can try to counter it with higher damage setup but with the way pulse lasers work now there isnt much chance of that with a megaT. Try tanking your megaT and maybe use some gun affecting EW mods and id say you got a pretty good chance at coming out on top. Gankgeddons are designed to defeat tanks, they are useless against everything else. The blasterT is designed for the exact same thing, although a blasterT still keeps some defences making it viable for other uses aswell. All in all i would say a blasterT is a better ship at large then a gankgeddon. Its only when you put both in a 1v1 against eachother that the blasterT gets owned. So no gankgeddons do not really replace blasterthrons although the throne of top tankkiller is no longer for the megaT now, and you shouldn't try to counter a gankgeddon with a blasterT. -Get some EW support -Use something thats faster then a heavy pulse can track -Tank harder -Get a better DOT (phat chance) Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:24:00 - [36] Gankgeddon.. The name says it all..its a gank setup. Basically its rigged for pure damage and has absolutly NO other defences other then going for the quick kill. Anyone with a very low secrating who has ever camped in empire space with gank setups knows that you have to be on your toes all the time for pirate hunters, because the moment they warp in your screwed as you have no defences against them. A gankgeddon is the same. Use EW or concentrated fire and the gankgeddon is nothing more then oversized cannonfodder. Its fodder for EW frigs and cruisers. As for blasterthron VS gankgeddon... On both setups the object is to kill before being killed, i guess the gankgeddon does better in that field. Thats why you can't counter a gankgeddon with a high damage setup. You can try to counter it with higher damage setup but with the way pulse lasers work now there isnt much chance of that with a megaT. Try tanking your megaT and maybe use some gun affecting EW mods and id say you got a pretty good chance at coming out on top. Gankgeddons are designed to defeat tanks, they are useless against everything else. The blasterT is designed for the exact same thing, although a blasterT still keeps some defences making it viable for other uses aswell. All in all i would say a blasterT is a better ship at large then a gankgeddon. Its only when you put both in a 1v1 against eachother that the blasterT gets owned. So no gankgeddons do not really replace blasterthrons although the throne of top tankkiller is no longer for the megaT now, and you shouldn't try to counter a gankgeddon with a blasterT. -Get some EW support -Use something thats faster then a heavy pulse can track -Tank harder -Get a better DOT (phat chance) Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Valeria	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:27:00 - [37] If you use Gankageddons in fleet battle you are mad. A Megathron can deal antimatter damage at 60+ km range, and with 7 rails, 7 damage mods it's not very far behind in damage output and deals more useful kinetic damage. Unless that fleet battle takes place at <15km range, but afaik that's not very common. Nonetheless, I must say that Mega Pulse needs a tracking nerf. They're just slightly behind Autocannons atm, but can still be very effective at long ranges as you say. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Valeria	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:27:00 - [38] If you use Gankageddons in fleet battle you are mad. A Megathron can deal antimatter damage at 60+ km range, and with 7 rails, 7 damage mods it's not very far behind in damage output and deals more useful kinetic damage. Unless that fleet battle takes place at <15km range, but afaik that's not very common. Nonetheless, I must say that Mega Pulse needs a tracking nerf. They're just slightly behind Autocannons atm, but can still be very effective at long ranges as you say. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Earthan	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:31:00 - [39] Valeria rails with antimater at 60 km??? The optimal of rails with antimatter is 27 km with all gunnery skills at level 4, even with trakicng comps you will not reach even 40 km... Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Earthan	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:31:00 - [40] Valeria rails with antimater at 60 km??? The optimal of rails with antimatter is 27 km with all gunnery skills at level 4, even with trakicng comps you will not reach even 40 km... Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:35:00 - [41] Originally by: Earthan Valeria rails with antimater at 60 km??? The optimal of rails with antimatter is 27 km with all gunnery skills at level 4, even with trakicng comps you will not reach even 40 km... She didn't say the optimal was 60km. Antimatter still hits for very nice damage at 60km against BS. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Earthan Valeria rails with antimater at 60 km??? The optimal of rails with antimatter is 27 km with all gunnery skills at level 4, even with trakicng comps you will not reach even 40 km... She didn't say the optimal was 60km. Antimatter still hits for very nice damage at 60km against BS. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Earthan	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:42:00 - [43] hmm will try , but i vaguely remember trying AM after tracking changes for longer distances against npc, it didnt work. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Earthan	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:42:00 - [44] hmm will try , but i vaguely remember trying AM after tracking changes for longer distances against npc, it didnt work. Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Turyleon Caddarn	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:43:00 - [45] ive used the gankageddon setup, mine was used for pirating though, 1 large rep, 6 hs2s, and 1 cpu2, then 2 warp disruptors in the mids. worked excelletn against miners or npc'ers (/emote waves to the people that know me), but even witht hte large rep, it has ***ty defense. as has been said, best way to counter this is to use ew. if you got a megathron, for example, with 2 dampners, mwd cap booster, large rep, loads of mag stabs and 7 blasters, you would kick ass just the same, and would be able to get with in your optimal, before the geddon got in his AND got a lock. "I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse."*
Turyleon Caddarn	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:43:00 - [46] ive used the gankageddon setup, mine was used for pirating though, 1 large rep, 6 hs2s, and 1 cpu2, then 2 warp disruptors in the mids. worked excelletn against miners or npc'ers (/emote waves to the people that know me), but even witht hte large rep, it has ***ty defense. as has been said, best way to counter this is to use ew. if you got a megathron, for example, with 2 dampners, mwd cap booster, large rep, loads of mag stabs and 7 blasters, you would kick ass just the same, and would be able to get with in your optimal, before the geddon got in his AND got a lock. "I know this game, it's called Cat and Mouse. There's only one way to win......... Don't be the mouse."*
Valeria	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:50:00 - [47] With 4 Tracking Comp II's I calculate 50km optimal and then you can be quite a bit into your fall-off and still outdamage a Geddon. Might be wrong though. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Valeria	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:50:00 - [48] With 4 Tracking Comp II's I calculate 50km optimal and then you can be quite a bit into your fall-off and still outdamage a Geddon. Might be wrong though. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:56:00 - [49] heh... Everyone should just use their ship and not worry somuch... Its because people keep hopping from one ship to another and from one guntype to another that they never really get to specialise in anything. If you ever fight a pilot in a MegaT who is fully focused on gallente ships and hybred turrets then you will defnitly want to make sure you brought a diaper and sweatshirt. Same goes for an arma pilot who focused on amarr ships and laserturrets... Same goes for any pilot who took the time to specialise in any specific type of ship for combat purposes... I still do well in my phoon even after all the projectile balancing! Pick a ship you like and train for it, squeeze asmuch as you can out of it and try not to think of the flavour of the week tomuch...it changes all the time. Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.08.28 11:56:00 - [50] heh... Everyone should just use their ship and not worry somuch... Its because people keep hopping from one ship to another and from one guntype to another that they never really get to specialise in anything. If you ever fight a pilot in a MegaT who is fully focused on gallente ships and hybred turrets then you will defnitly want to make sure you brought a diaper and sweatshirt. Same goes for an arma pilot who focused on amarr ships and laserturrets... Same goes for any pilot who took the time to specialise in any specific type of ship for combat purposes... I still do well in my phoon even after all the projectile balancing! Pick a ship you like and train for it, squeeze asmuch as you can out of it and try not to think of the flavour of the week tomuch...it changes all the time. Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2004.08.28 12:17:00 - [51] Setups change, deal with it. If one setup is deemed powerfull and gets popular then the smart player will start thinking how to breach it, as the powerfull setups usually are onesided there will probably soon come a new powerfull setup that exploits the old ones weaknesses and the hunt for the next setup begins.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2004.08.28 12:17:00 - [52] Setups change, deal with it. If one setup is deemed powerfull and gets popular then the smart player will start thinking how to breach it, as the powerfull setups usually are onesided there will probably soon come a new powerfull setup that exploits the old ones weaknesses and the hunt for the next setup begins.
Hakera	Posted - 2004.08.28 12:21:00 - [53] Edited by: Hakera on 28/08/2004 12:24:34 I find 3 white noise particularly useful against such setups! yeah they do good damage, but the minute you got a fleet concentrating on you, that geddon will be toast. Its true, the geddons get targeted first now as they go down faster and on the chance they are running gankageddon setups (which some of Pie do!) anyone tried a tempest with 6 gyro II's? I havent yet since proj DoT is a pile of crud, maybe I'll play with the 'phoon and set it up as a dmg dealer and see how it performs. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.08.28 12:21:00 - [54] Edited by: Hakera on 28/08/2004 12:24:34 I find 3 white noise particularly useful against such setups! yeah they do good damage, but the minute you got a fleet concentrating on you, that geddon will be toast. Its true, the geddons get targeted first now as they go down faster and on the chance they are running gankageddon setups (which some of Pie do!) anyone tried a tempest with 6 gyro II's? I havent yet since proj DoT is a pile of crud, maybe I'll play with the 'phoon and set it up as a dmg dealer and see how it performs. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Valeria	Posted - 2004.08.28 12:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Hakera anyone tried a tempest with 6 gyro II's? I havent yet since proj DoT is a pile of crud, maybe I'll play with the 'phoon and set it up as a dmg dealer and see how it performs. Oh yes. You can only fit five if you want six 1400's though, and your damage output will be less than half of the Megathron I mentioned earlier in this thread. So basically a pretty useless setup. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Valeria	Posted - 2004.08.28 12:49:00 - [56] Originally by: Hakera anyone tried a tempest with 6 gyro II's? I havent yet since proj DoT is a pile of crud, maybe I'll play with the 'phoon and set it up as a dmg dealer and see how it performs. Oh yes. You can only fit five if you want six 1400's though, and your damage output will be less than half of the Megathron I mentioned earlier in this thread. So basically a pretty useless setup. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Hakera	Posted - 2004.08.28 13:06:00 - [57] Originally by: Valeria Oh yes. You can only fit five if you want six 1400's though, and your damage output will be less than half of the Megathron I mentioned earlier in this thread. So basically a pretty useless setup. I was thinking more short range, to be almost equivalent to the geddon, maybe 6800mm, 6 gyro II's as an example. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com*
Hakera	Posted - 2004.08.28 13:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Valeria Oh yes. You can only fit five if you want six 1400's though, and your damage output will be less than half of the Megathron I mentioned earlier in this thread. So basically a pretty useless setup. I was thinking more short range, to be almost equivalent to the geddon, maybe 6800mm, 6 gyro II's as an example. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com*
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.08.28 13:35:00 - [59] Well the only thing that is not ballanced is the range span of pulse lasers. I have no problem with gankageddon dealing uber damage, nor extreme setups. What is unfair is that you can insta swap crystals and go for close or long range. With megathron, once you undock, you're set for either close or long, but not both. And in reality, there is no way of you knowing at which range you will end up fighting. That is why gankageddon and raven have advantage over mega and tempest. Tempest is long range ship, and mediocre at tanking, so you are forced to long range fights. Megathron's role is defined by its initial setup. Armageddon just switches crystals (I wish I could play with my optimal like that in my mega). Raven goes for cruise or torps. Geddon should not be nerfed, but the pulse lasers are too "magical" for my taste. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.08.28 13:35:00 - [60] Well the only thing that is not ballanced is the range span of pulse lasers. I have no problem with gankageddon dealing uber damage, nor extreme setups. What is unfair is that you can insta swap crystals and go for close or long range. With megathron, once you undock, you're set for either close or long, but not both. And in reality, there is no way of you knowing at which range you will end up fighting. That is why gankageddon and raven have advantage over mega and tempest. Tempest is long range ship, and mediocre at tanking, so you are forced to long range fights. Megathron's role is defined by its initial setup. Armageddon just switches crystals (I wish I could play with my optimal like that in my mega). Raven goes for cruise or torps. Geddon should not be nerfed, but the pulse lasers are too "magical" for my taste. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.

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