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Kongkim 040382DK
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:07:00 -
[1]
Hi. Im beginning to look and the trading path of EVE.
And i think its a little hard. I dont really make any good ISK on it.
I have around 70mil isk to start out with.
But how do you find out what to trade and not? Do you have more acount and a alt. In every trade hub?
Plz. come with some good trade hints and how to get startet.
And is there some good market tools that can help compare prices??
I see you can export market info to files.. so are there a program the compares them?? Or how do you ppl. Use that?
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Linia
Gallente
Linia Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:37:00 -
[2]
First of all like all the others will tell, and probably is as I write, look at the sticky on top, it has many valueable infos!
(no, I didn't read it myself and I never will)
Personally when I got into trading and dis stuff, what I did, was to manufacture things.
I made a spreadsheet in excel with the cost from (sellorder) of minerals or other items, and then added up the total cost with the bpo/bpc to see if it was any profit.
You have to see trading like anything else in eve, first you have to do the hard stuff, eg. in pvp and pve
1. train skills
2. get ship
3. kill ppl / do mission
= profit
Trading follows the same pattern, however differently;
1. Find out WHAT to sell/build/invent
(1a. maybe train a few trade skills)
2. Find out WHERE to sell/build it
3. Build,invent,sell it
Profit!
Point 2 might be easy enough, a trade hub like jita, but there is other more profitable ares in low sec or 0,0 to sell in, however I have no experience in those.
Hope it helped a bit
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HawkBlade
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.04.21 19:35:00 -
[3]
Sexy has been a great tool for me in keeping records and gauging activity. Additionally it has been very useful for coordinating activities between myself and my various partners.
EMMA version 1.+ comes with a 100m one time fee but for the starting trader this is not a good idea. I'd research for any older beta copies of EMMA. The features available in the beta are very useful. So much so that I still use it more than I use EMMA v1.+. (I was an early adopter who was disappointed so I've made do with other solutions - in all fairness I should update and review again.)
IskMedic is also another good tool though I don't use it for the purposes it was designed. I use it for doing market surveying, not for finding trades. Given that this program uses MS Access I regularly update the database myself, directly, as well as creating my own queries and reports. (I find this to be faster than the program itself - I.e. It's a market export converter to me.)
I forgot to add, each of these programs use a different database option. Sexy uses MySql, EMMA MS SQL-Lite, and IskMedic uses MS Access. If you've got some experience in any, or all, of these then these tools just spare you having to code your own export/api converters. For my own purposes the only one I use for displaying data, itself, is Sexy. It's so sexy. PS: I'll give tips on tools but after that I give no tips to the public at large. (I hate the public - big mass of unwashed overly self-entitled ignoramuses.)
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Lucius Flaccus
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Posted - 2009.04.21 20:08:00 -
[4]
You can make 50m or more isk a day _without_ any third party apps. They make things easier by doing some legwork. They give you nice stats and graphs. But you can turn a tidy profit by just using the game and excel if you like.
For any region you're in, you can see all the orders for any item in that region. You may well go 'duh', but thats already enough for you to spend 20 minutes working out where the popular hubs are.
The history tab shows you a bunch of information for any item on the market. Im sure you've seen it :) But surely you can see that from this tab you can work out which items move faster than others.
Have you ever looked at the market and thought 'this item is probably cheaper elsewhere. but I only need 2. Ill just buy them here'. If so, you can bet lots of other players do too.
Its really really easy to make a profit. Its just hard getting the daily profits high but keeping the time investment low for upkeep on the orders. |
Tradkil
Kil Family Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.21 20:53:00 -
[5]
You find out what to trade by doing research on the various regional markets as well as historical prices and trends. You can do this with one toon or with more.
Playing the market in EVE requires as much thought and planning as large fleet fights or 0.0 logistics. Be prepared to put in the time.
I use Excel and EVE Meep. To compare regional prices I sometimes use EVe Market Aware.
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Kongkim 040382DK
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Posted - 2009.04.22 11:54:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kongkim 040382DK on 22/04/2009 11:56:11
 Originally by: HawkBlade
Sexy has been a great tool for me in keeping records and gauging activity. Additionally it has been very useful for coordinating activities between myself and my various partners. EMMA version 1.+ comes with a 100m one time fee but for the starting trader this is not a good idea. I'd research for any older beta copies of EMMA. The features available in the beta are very useful. So much so that I still use it more than I use EMMA v1.+. (I was an early adopter who was disappointed so I've made do with other solutions - in all fairness I should update and review again.) IskMedic is also another good tool though I don't use it for the purposes it was designed. I use it for doing market surveying, not for finding trades. Given that this program uses MS Access I regularly update the database myself, directly, as well as creating my own queries and reports. (I find this to be faster than the program itself - I.e. It's a market export converter to me.) I forgot to add, each of these programs use a different database option. Sexy uses MySql, EMMA MS SQL-Lite, and IskMedic uses MS Access. If you've got some experience in any, or all, of these then these tools just spare you having to code your own export/api converters. For my own purposes the only one I use for displaying data, itself, is Sexy. It's so sexy. PS: I'll give tips on tools but after that I give no tips to the public at large. (I hate the public - big mass of unwashed overly self-entitled ignoramuses.)
IskMedic seems really good. But it **** up the price. i see it in millions and bill..??
Aint there a simple program where i can upload my market files from EVE and compare and analyze them to find the best price??? A market analyzer program.. very simple..??
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ingenting
20th Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.22 12:05:00 -
[7]
eve-central
eve-metrics
_________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb."
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Hel O'Ween
Academy of Truth
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Posted - 2009.04.22 12:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kongkim 040382DK
Aint there a simple program where i can upload my market files from EVE and compare and analyze them to find the best price??? A market analyzer program.. very simple..??
What don't you like about the tools that do this, which are mentioned in the forum's sticky? |
Kongkim 040382DK
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Posted - 2009.04.22 12:21:00 -
[9]
eve-central
eve-metrics
are ok but they are online so alle players can see it.. Alle the good trades are goon in no time. So i whant a program where it only use info from the files i export myself.
I like isk medic.. but i cant get the price bug fixed??
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Corpia Sin
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Posted - 2009.04.22 13:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: HawkBlade
Sexy has been a great tool for me in keeping records and gauging activity. Additionally it has been very useful for coordinating activities between myself and my various partners.
EMMA version 1.+ comes with a 100m one time fee but for the starting trader this is not a good idea. I'd research for any older beta copies of EMMA. The features available in the beta are very useful. So much so that I still use it more than I use EMMA v1.+. (I was an early adopter who was disappointed so I've made do with other solutions - in all fairness I should update and review again.)
IskMedic is also another good tool though I don't use it for the purposes it was designed. I use it for doing market surveying, not for finding trades. Given that this program uses MS Access I regularly update the database myself, directly, as well as creating my own queries and reports. (I find this to be faster than the program itself - I.e. It's a market export converter to me.)
I forgot to add, each of these programs use a different database option. Sexy uses MySql, EMMA MS SQL-Lite, and IskMedic uses MS Access. If you've got some experience in any, or all, of these then these tools just spare you having to code your own export/api converters. For my own purposes the only one I use for displaying data, itself, is Sexy. It's so sexy. PS: I'll give tips on tools but after that I give no tips to the public at large. (I hate the public - big mass of unwashed overly self-entitled ignoramuses.)
I hate trying to get these programs to even work! Not that they are not great but you need alot of spare time and head bashing just to get them to work. Forget Emma if you have Vista 64, forget Sexy due to bugs, corrupted zip files, installing of wamp, blach! These programs are initially designed for the author's use and they just happened to release them, normally buggy and inconsistent with very little proper troubleshooting feedback.
I am going to install winxp just so I can use Emma, it sucks to do this but its the only way at having a shot with that program and it still my have problems. But supposedly Emma is the way to go... |
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HawkBlade
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.04.22 13:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Corpia Sin
These programs are initially designed for the author's use and they just happened to release them, normally buggy and inconsistent with very little proper troubleshooting feedback.
I am going to install winxp just so I can use Emma, it sucks to do this but its the only way at having a shot with that program and it still my have problems. But supposedly Emma is the way to go...
I'm so sorry to hear your whining. Perhaps after you trouble yourself, unsympathetic I am, with the o/s switch you might go out and code a better solution. Or you can hire someone to do so as well. Bah, who am I kidding. Reason is lost upon the self indulgent over entitled asses that make up the public mass. Sexy installation went smooth for me and wamp wasn't a problem. I leave it running on an old machine in the household. The entire thing takes up so little footprint that I can play Eve and other games on it while having wamp/Sexy accessed by others. Simply put, it's a matter of investment. A trader knows that you sometimes have to spend a little something, be it isk or time, in the beginning to reap later rewards. Obviously you are either not a trader or just a whiny bugger.
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Linda Fortuness
No power to red unicorns
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Posted - 2009.04.22 15:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kongkim 040382DK
Edited by: Kongkim 040382DK on 22/04/2009 11:56:11
Aint there a simple program where i can upload my market files from EVE and compare and analyze them to find the best price??? A market analyzer program.. very simple..??
there is.
its called "eve market scanner" you can comepare your exported marketlogs quiet easy. unfortunatly i dont have the link, but google should help. |
Kongkim 040382DK
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Posted - 2009.04.22 15:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Linda Fortuness
Originally by: Kongkim 040382DK
Edited by: Kongkim 040382DK on 22/04/2009 11:56:11
Aint there a simple program where i can upload my market files from EVE and compare and analyze them to find the best price??? A market analyzer program.. very simple..??
there is.
its called "eve market scanner" you can comepare your exported marketlogs quiet easy. unfortunatly i dont have the link, but google should help.
Yah something like that.. Its nice.. I only miss that it have a option to compare items and tell profit per jump :)?
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TraderTheHut
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Posted - 2009.04.22 16:21:00 -
[14]
if you have a problem with isk medic and number formating. You need to set your system to use USA regional settings for number formating. Once that is down import your files again and you should be good to go.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.04.22 16:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Corpia Sin
I am going to install winxp just so I can use Emma, it sucks to do this but its the only way at having a shot with that program and it still my have problems. But supposedly Emma is the way to go...
There are some specific steps you can do to get emma to work in Vista 64
Really though the issue isn't EMMA, well sorta is but it isn't. Its actually a problem with the desktop SQL version used for emma and vista 64. Its more about getting EMMA to utilize the version of SQL needed for 64.
its a giant headache I'll give you that, my suggestion would be to just get the free edition of VMware and install an instance of XP with the minimum amount of stuff needed. Make sure you get your vmware instance set correct to hold your processor affinity right so that you don't experience much if any slow down while using it and EVE. |
Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.04.22 17:26:00 -
[16]
Buy low.
Sell high.
If you mine it, it is not free.
You are now on the way to being an internet spaceship bazillionaire. |
Corpia Sin
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Posted - 2009.04.22 20:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Corpia Sin on 22/04/2009 20:26:39
Edited by: Corpia Sin on 22/04/2009 20:22:25
Originally by: HawkBlade
Originally by: Corpia Sin
These programs are initially designed for the author's use and they just happened to release them, normally buggy and inconsistent with very little proper troubleshooting feedback.
I am going to install winxp just so I can use Emma, it sucks to do this but its the only way at having a shot with that program and it still my have problems. But supposedly Emma is the way to go...
I'm so sorry to hear your whining. Perhaps after you trouble yourself, unsympathetic I am, with the o/s switch you might go out and code a better solution. Or you can hire someone to do so as well. Bah, who am I kidding. Reason is lost upon the self indulgent over entitled asses that make up the public mass. Sexy installation went smooth for me and wamp wasn't a problem. I leave it running on an old machine in the household. The entire thing takes up so little footprint that I can play Eve and other games on it while having wamp/Sexy accessed by others. Simply put, it's a matter of investment. A trader knows that you sometimes have to spend a little something, be it isk or time, in the beginning to reap later rewards. Obviously you are either not a trader or just a whiny bugger.
Hawkblade, sorry I insulted you :( Glad you have no problems with them.
In the end its my opinion and I am entitled to share it. By no means should any new trader think any 3rd party program is the 'end all be all' of their trading problems. They only assist what you can already achieve yourself. Most are buggy and have no real support. Its just fair warning. If you can get them to work then great.
Instead I use simpler programs such as EveTrader, EveMarketScanner, ISKMedic, EveWalletWare, EveMeep, EveAssetManager and you may want to try EveCommander.com. These programs don't require anything out of the 'box', just your API. They are not as advanced as the others but will cause less headache.
I am a trader whether you want to believe it or not and quite successful at it. In the 3 months I have played I have done quite well for myself. Sure I may sound tipped off a bit but there is reason for it. Its not mere whining either - players need to know that some of these programs are not that easy to install depending on their PC.
Kazzac - thanks for that tip.
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Heathkit
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Posted - 2009.04.22 23:34:00 -
[18]
What do you guys think about eve-central? Does it tend to carry good information on lowsec? For empire, it seems to me about as up to date and complete as you could be.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.04.23 00:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Heathkit
What do you guys think about eve-central? Does it tend to carry good information on lowsec? For empire, it seems to me about as up to date and complete as you could be.
Lately here I've found eve metrics to be far superior. |
Kongkim 040382DK
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Posted - 2009.04.23 04:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Heathkit
What do you guys think about eve-central? Does it tend to carry good information on lowsec? For empire, it seems to me about as up to date and complete as you could be.
The problem with this. Is that all players in wee will see the same trade routh.. I tryed id some times now and every time another player come first to the good trades.
So i think a program to show my owne data is better. :)?
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Ambo
EMMA Test Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.23 07:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Corpia Sin
Forget Emma if you have Vista 64...These programs are initially designed for the author's use and they just happened to release them, normally buggy and inconsistent with very little proper troubleshooting feedback.
I'm sorry you're having problems, It's very frustrating from my point of view because I've personally installed this on 3 XP machines (one of them x64) and one vista machine (x64 as well) and I've never had a single issue.
I can only assume it's because I always use a full admin account. As you say, this was originaly designed for my use so I didn't even consider non-admin Windows accounts.
Have you checked this post from the FAQ? It has a complete guide on how to install EMMA on a Vista 64 bit system and it's what I followed when I did it.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Hel O'Ween
Academy of Truth
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Posted - 2009.04.23 12:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Corpia Sin
Instead I use simpler programs such as [...] EveWalletWare [...]
*cough*
EVEWalletAware 
--
EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Corpia Sin
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ambo
Originally by: Corpia Sin
Forget Emma if you have Vista 64...These programs are initially designed for the author's use and they just happened to release them, normally buggy and inconsistent with very little proper troubleshooting feedback.
I'm sorry you're having problems, It's very frustrating from my point of view because I've personally installed this on 3 XP machines (one of them x64) and one vista machine (x64 as well) and I've never had a single issue.
I can only assume it's because I always use a full admin account. As you say, this was originaly designed for my use so I didn't even consider non-admin Windows accounts.
Have you checked this post from the FAQ? It has a complete guide on how to install EMMA on a Vista 64 bit system and it's what I followed when I did it.
Thanks Ambo, following this guide as I speak.
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wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2009.04.23 14:57:00 -
[24]
Remember that you need to buy stuff to be able to sell it at a profit and some items don't get sold to traders that often. Likewise, some easily fill buy orders but never sell
Check the high/low prices to make sure that the item you're putting orders on is actually both sold and bought
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Dealth Striker
Caldari
Striker Ltd
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:08:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Dealth Striker on 23/04/2009 19:08:33
**deleted**
---------------------
Communication is Key! |
Engineer Butters
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:09:00 -
[26]
**deleted**
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Ji Sama
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:11:00 -
[27]
**deleted**
edit: decided it wasnt funny!
This is a signature not related to EVE |
Flicky G
Z.o.r.g.i.x
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.04.23 22:50:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Flicky G on 23/04/2009 22:50:23
For the OP: Try to make your first investments as risk free as possible - maybe trade in the items you already use yourself, so having surplus stock would still be useful? Or maybe if you've been running missions, look at the npc drops and play around with buy orders a bit?
The out of game tools are useful - but you need a feel for how the whole thing works first I think. Once you have a requirement to know certain bits of info, then is the time to investigate which ones are a good fit.
o/
F
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Pixie Rollins
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Posted - 2009.04.24 01:56:00 -
[29]
To the OP, what is your expectation from trading software?
I hope you donĘt expect to download a piece of software that will impart some kind of trading insight or an advantage. IĘm sure the trading programs mentioned in this thread are probably great tools (i havenĘt used all or even most of them), but the functionality they add is not critical to trading, nor do they contribute a great deal to a traderĘs success.
Also, you should be aware of their disadvantages, for example:
1.Eve Central and Eve metrics are not reliable enough to base your trading strategy on.The (often outdated) information that is shared by everyone else.
2.Wallet Managers are great utilities when you have many markets orders and millions of isk. They will only help you to get organized but donĘt expect them to make you a better trader.
I would recommend that you use excel, (or any other spreadsheet program). Start by selecting a small number of items and keep a daily log of their prices by exporting market data.
Once you have a week or two of information you can start analyzing it. How you analyze it depends entirely on how savvy you are, but iĘd suggest you look at things like the average buy/sell order (and their variance) and the bid-ask spread.
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